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TRANSLATION: Air Traffic Control

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  • Daniel Bowman
    This is an interesting and challenging translation exercise. Air Traffic Control will allow me to launch my solar balloon next week. Backstory: I pulled out
    Message 1 of 15 , May 2, 2012
      This is an interesting and challenging translation exercise.

      "Air Traffic Control will allow me to launch my solar balloon next week."

      Backstory:
      I pulled out my Angosey diary, and as usual I was wondering what to write. Then I thought, why not write about how the FAA (Federal Aviation Administration) let me know today that I can launch my 20' solar balloon next week? But then I thought, that's too fracking hard to translate, why not just say it was cloudy and I went for a run while listening to E Nomine?

      But then I thought, this is a CHALLENGE! The gauntlet is hereby thrown. When I figure out the Angosey translation, I'll post it.

      Please do not use the dubitative mood :-)
    • Daniel Bowman
      ... Here it is in Angosey: Sindral alray-zenaya au tha Zereo Araknatheo houah Ihpeteo ndalr (ZAI) isa au arakhnath sareo ndneo. The Authority on Transportation
      Message 2 of 15 , May 2, 2012
        > This is an interesting and challenging translation exercise.
        >
        > "Air Traffic Control will allow me to launch my solar balloon next week."
        >
        > Backstory:
        > I pulled out my Angosey diary, and as usual I was wondering what to write.
        > Then I thought, why not write about how the FAA (Federal Aviation
        > Administration) let me know today that I can launch my 20' solar balloon
        > next week? But then I thought, that's too fracking hard to translate, why
        > not just say it was cloudy and I went for a run while listening to E Nomine?
        >
        > But then I thought, this is a CHALLENGE! The gauntlet is hereby thrown.
        > When I figure out the Angosey translation, I'll post it.
        >
        > Please do not use the dubitative mood :-)
        >

        Here it is in Angosey:

        Sindral alray-zenaya'au tha Zereo Araknatheo houah Ihpeteo ndalr (ZAI) isa
        au arakhnath sareo ndneo.

        The Authority on Transportation by Airborne Objects (ATAO) will allow me to
        launch my solar-powered balloon.

        Some funny details: the word for airborne object (ihpet) refers to any
        non-ballistic airborne object. If I had specified that ihpet is an emotive
        rather than physical noun, ZAI would be translated on "The Authority of
        Transport by means of Birds"

        Also, I found that the word for launch is the same as the word for throw in
        Angosey.

        Here's the interlinear:

        allow EVIDENTIAL_SECONDHAND.launch.ASPECT_EMOTIVE.TENSE_FUTURE
        PARTICLE_ABSTRACT authority.DATIVE transportation.DATIVE
        TENSE_ABSTRACT.controlling aircraft.DATIVE TENSE_PHYSICAL.concerning (ZAI)
        1st.person.singular balloon solar.DATIVE TENSE_PHYSICAL.powering.
      • Zach Wellstood
        Well, this was an interesting challenge. It makes me wonder about how much I have left to develop in my conlang (a lot lot lot). łalilutłír yaá lirsa
        Message 3 of 15 , May 2, 2012
          Well, this was an interesting challenge. It makes me wonder about how much
          I have left to develop in my conlang (a lot lot lot).

          łalilutłír yaá lirsa silirlayaa łalí sisí łałuu’ łi łasałali’aa’rilayaa
          tła’i ła’la ra’aará łurisiír.

          next-week man-SENTIENT COMPL. vessle-INAN. fly GEN. rule 1sg.subj.
          sun-ascend-bubble-INAN. GEN. 1sg.obj. DISTAL-IMMED.-allow(EVID)
          IMMED.-NEAR-send(EVID.)

          Next week, the men who rule the vessles that fly allow my sun-powered
          bubble to be set off by me.

          Some notes:
          - "sun" (łasa) is also used to derive almost all electrically-powered
          technology, so this has be extended to literally mean "solar-powered" here
          - The verb declines for spatial deixis of the subjects/objects, but also
          can clarify ambiguity. That's why the first verb (allow, ra) is known to
          mean "They allow me" -- because of the deictic inflections. Similarly,
          that's why the second verb (send, siir) is known to mean, "I send it"

          Urm, I still feel like this is very clutter-y, especially in the area
          around "men who rule flying vessles."

          Still fun!

          On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 11:07 PM, Daniel Bowman <danny.c.bowman@...>wrote:

          > > This is an interesting and challenging translation exercise.
          > >
          > > "Air Traffic Control will allow me to launch my solar balloon next week."
          > >
          > > Backstory:
          > > I pulled out my Angosey diary, and as usual I was wondering what to
          > write.
          > > Then I thought, why not write about how the FAA (Federal Aviation
          > > Administration) let me know today that I can launch my 20' solar balloon
          > > next week? But then I thought, that's too fracking hard to translate,
          > why
          > > not just say it was cloudy and I went for a run while listening to E
          > Nomine?
          > >
          > > But then I thought, this is a CHALLENGE! The gauntlet is hereby thrown.
          > > When I figure out the Angosey translation, I'll post it.
          > >
          > > Please do not use the dubitative mood :-)
          > >
          >
          > Here it is in Angosey:
          >
          > Sindral alray-zenaya'au tha Zereo Araknatheo houah Ihpeteo ndalr (ZAI) isa
          > au arakhnath sareo ndneo.
          >
          > The Authority on Transportation by Airborne Objects (ATAO) will allow me to
          > launch my solar-powered balloon.
          >
          > Some funny details: the word for airborne object (ihpet) refers to any
          > non-ballistic airborne object. If I had specified that ihpet is an emotive
          > rather than physical noun, ZAI would be translated on "The Authority of
          > Transport by means of Birds"
          >
          > Also, I found that the word for launch is the same as the word for throw in
          > Angosey.
          >
          > Here's the interlinear:
          >
          > allow EVIDENTIAL_SECONDHAND.launch.ASPECT_EMOTIVE.TENSE_FUTURE
          > PARTICLE_ABSTRACT authority.DATIVE transportation.DATIVE
          > TENSE_ABSTRACT.controlling aircraft.DATIVE TENSE_PHYSICAL.concerning (ZAI)
          > 1st.person.singular balloon solar.DATIVE TENSE_PHYSICAL.powering.
          >



          --
          <Say 'Yes' to Conlanging! <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conlang>>
          ra'aalalí 'a!
        • Puey McCleary
          * Kongai khipyayàxhwa khmeilanètyikh ker stanayexhyeûxing tekhyaqenkhayaîpoin emlenurèlkhim tsèxhla tekhyatwalánaôthe sòlra pfhu khwìqaqi
          Message 4 of 15 , May 3, 2012
            *

            Kongai khipyayàxhwa khmeilanètyikh ker stanayexhyeûxing tekhyaqenkhayaîpoin
            emlenurèlkhim tsèxhla tekhyatwalánaôthe sòlra pfhu khwìqaqi
            khyisyarxhnomàyaloi’ úyan.
            **

            As for the honored hegemons among the æronauts in the sky port, the men may
            be fated to permit one to launch one’s solar, glass, hot air balloon next
            sennight.
            *

            Alas, Khlìjha has no dubitative mood. However, one can just use neutral
            pronouns to achieve a similar affect, and many of them are gendered.
          • Sam Stutter
            Motannira FLer mean lerassannto mean monncolferi usnnin-sole ici saftagna batte. /mɒ.tã’nɪ.ɹa fe’leɹ mã le.ɹa’sãn.tɒ mã mɒ̃n.kɒl’fe.ɹɪ
            Message 5 of 15 , May 3, 2012
              Motannira FLer mean lerassannto mean monncolferi usnnin-sole ici saftagna batte.

              /mɒ.tã’nɪ.ɹa fe’leɹ mã le.ɹa’sãn.tɒ mã mɒ̃n.kɒl’fe.ɹɪ ʊs’nı̃ sɒ’le ɪ’ʧɪ saf’tã.ɲa pa’te/

              Allow(3rd-f-sing.-future) FL(gen.) my launch(gerund) my balloon(acc.) warm(pres.participle)-sun this week(dat.) next.

              "ATC will allow my launching my sun-warmed balloon this next week"

              Ooh. Tricky this one. The problem I had was trying to get my head around the “He wants him to see” situation. Caccigga handles this as English (is apparently supposed to do, but hardly anyone does anymore) “he wants his seeing”, rather than “he wants him seeing”. It took a few goes before I understood my own verbal construction, before I realised that it was actually a nominal construction (with the apparent “gerund” actually being the present participle in English, but not being so in Caccigga, because the present participle forms certain adjectives instead and noun formation being the job of the gerund).

              FL is an abbreviation of “fageu ul lacalmacer”: “management of airspace” (English: ATC), airspace in turn formed from “laca” (area) and “ilma” (air), with the “i" dropped in accordance with the vowel dropping rules. ::pauses for breath::

              Interestingly, lacalma is declined for the genitive *as well*, because it forms a possessive construction (“the air’s management”).

              “Solar balloon” has been translated as “sun warmed balloon”; “sun-warmed” being treated as an adjectival construction, with the present participle of the verb “to warm” being used (not the past participle, like in English), with the word order VSO, “sun” follows the verb.

              And then I realised “next week” required a determiner; just because.

              Why is something so *easy* so *complicated*? Translating into Nauspayr today would probably kill me.

              Sam Stutter
              samjjs89@...
              "No e na'l cu barri"


              On 3 May 2012, at 13:41, Puey McCleary wrote:

              > *
              >
              > Kongai khipyayàxhwa khmeilanètyikh ker stanayexhyeûxing tekhyaqenkhayaîpoin
              > emlenurèlkhim tsèxhla tekhyatwalánaôthe sòlra pfhu khwìqaqi
              > khyisyarxhnomàyaloi’ úyan.
              > **
              >
              > As for the honored hegemons among the æronauts in the sky port, the men may
              > be fated to permit one to launch one’s solar, glass, hot air balloon next
              > sennight.
              > *
              >
              > Alas, Khlìjha has no dubitative mood. However, one can just use neutral
              > pronouns to achieve a similar affect, and many of them are gendered.
            • Adam Walker
              ... Perhaps it s the invocation of fate. Adam whose mind travels strange tracks
              Message 6 of 15 , May 3, 2012
                On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 7:41 AM, Puey McCleary <pueymccleary@...>wrote:

                > *
                >
                > Kongai khipyayàxhwa khmeilanètyikh ker stanayexhyeûxing tekhyaqenkhayaîpoin
                > emlenurèlkhim tsèxhla tekhyatwalánaôthe sòlra pfhu khwìqaqi
                > khyisyarxhnomàyaloi’ úyan.
                > **
                >
                > As for the honored hegemons among the æronauts in the sky port, the men may
                > be fated to permit one to launch one’s solar, glass, hot air balloon next
                > sennight.
                > *
                >
                > Why do I feel like the proper response has to be _Inshallah!_?
                Perhaps it's the invocation of fate.

                Adam whose mind travels strange tracks
              • Daniel Bowman
                I realized I forgot next week in my Angosey translation, but it s no big deal. Here s the correct phrase in Angosey: Sindral alray-zenaya au tha Zereo
                Message 7 of 15 , May 3, 2012
                  I realized I forgot "next week" in my Angosey translation, but it's no big
                  deal. Here's the correct phrase in Angosey:


                  Sindral alray-zenaya'au tha Zereo Araknatheo houah Ihpeteo ndalr (ZAI) isa
                  au arakhnath sareo ndneo insahalana siare.

                  > Why do I feel like the proper response has to be _Inshallah!_?
                  There is a lot about this solar balloon project that depends on Inshallah
                  and slightly ironic statements of "what could possibly go wrong?"
                • Tony Harris
                  Alurhsa: Kánónevár Nyáshánsësá lévánô lhen eshcìrónâ gásá shháványá lháls-ddúpárrenán lúvemárshán. Command-people-collective
                  Message 8 of 15 , May 3, 2012
                    Alurhsa:

                    Kánónevár Nyáshánsësá lévánô lhen eshcìrónâ gásá shháványá
                    lháls-ddúpárrenán lúvemárshán.

                    Command-people-collective of-Flight-causing will-allow me
                    to-cause-to-skyward next week my--balloon light-energy-using.



                    On 05/02/2012 10:36 PM, Daniel Bowman wrote:
                    > This is an interesting and challenging translation exercise.
                    >
                    > "Air Traffic Control will allow me to launch my solar balloon next week."
                    >
                    > Backstory:
                    > I pulled out my Angosey diary, and as usual I was wondering what to write. Then I thought, why not write about how the FAA (Federal Aviation Administration) let me know today that I can launch my 20' solar balloon next week? But then I thought, that's too fracking hard to translate, why not just say it was cloudy and I went for a run while listening to E Nomine?
                    >
                    > But then I thought, this is a CHALLENGE! The gauntlet is hereby thrown. When I figure out the Angosey translation, I'll post it.
                    >
                    > Please do not use the dubitative mood :-)
                  • Charles W Brickner
                    This is an interesting and challenging translation exercise. Air Traffic Control will allow me to launch my solar balloon next week. I only needed two new
                    Message 9 of 15 , May 3, 2012
                      This is an interesting and challenging translation exercise.

                      "Air Traffic Control will allow me to launch my solar balloon next week."

                      I only needed two new words for this translation: air traffic control and solar ballon.

                      pèþreìðdaadómasë sefaamrás mùsë suulkùbïgélom paúsu mum u-dóra:

                      pèþ-reìð-daa-dóm-as-ë = fly-vehicle-flow-control-NOM.sg-epenthetic
                      sef-aamr-ás = seven-day-LOC.sg, locative of time
                      m-ùs-ë = I-LOC.s-epenthetic
                      suul-kùbï-gél-om = sun-inflatable-ball, globe-LAT.sg
                      paús-u = throw, launch-SUP
                      m-um = I-LAT.sg
                      u-dór-a = FUT-allow-IND

                      Thanks for the exercise!

                      Charlie
                    • Charlie Brickner
                      Darn it! I forgot next . pèþreìðdaadómasë *néémhanta* sefaamrás mùsë suulkùbïgélom paúsu mum u-dóra: néémh-anta = approaching, coming-agent
                      Message 10 of 15 , May 3, 2012
                        Darn it! I forgot "next".

                        pèþreìðdaadómasë *néémhanta* sefaamrás mùsë suulkùbïgélom paúsu mum u-dóra:

                        néémh-anta = approaching, coming-agent participle.

                        Charlie
                      • Puey McCleary
                        With regards to Insha’Allah!, Tekhya-qenkha-yaîpoin, that is, they are fated to permit one, is a Predicate in the Vatic Aspect. The Vatic Aspect
                        Message 11 of 15 , May 3, 2012
                          With regards to "Insha’Allah!," "Tekhya-qenkha-yaîpoin," that is, "they are
                          fated to permit one," is a Predicate in the Vatic Aspect.

                          The Vatic Aspect almost functions as a weak future tense, but without
                          intention.

                          For instance:

                          Qthewayaîpoin jhatiyùtya’ Alixhlìnye.

                          Alixhlìnye is fated to drink of the tea.

                          Alixhlìnye shall drink of the tea.

                          Alixhlìnye must drink of the tea.

                          ‘Tis prophesied that Alixhlìnye drink of the tea.

                          Compare this to the Injunctive Mood:

                          Qthewayàmpein jhatiyùtya’ Alixhlìnye!

                          Alixhlìnye intends to drink of the tea!

                          Qthewayàmpein jhàti’ Alixhlìnyeyan!

                          Alixhlìnye SHALL drink the tea!

                          The Vatic Aspect is quite useful in a society where all marriages are
                          arranged, caste is dependent upon the standing of one’s family, and
                          everyone had better do what they’re told. Surely these æronauts, who are
                          commanded by the hands of the War Clans and the masks of the Noble Caste,
                          are just doing as they’re told.

                          Don’t we all?

                          I’m not entirely sure whether the Vatic Aspect is quite the same as
                          "Insha’Allah" or "Deo volente," but it does have a similar feel to it.

                          Now, whatever we do, let’s not use this time on the solar balloon to toss
                          walnuts and acorns on the elders or in any other way subvert the social
                          order. Because that would just be plain nutty.
                        • Douglas Koller
                          ... Consider it done. The indicative it is: Chü bvöküchraks chek vangaböhathseng lín sít höi chö mörautílabsöt síteböt cha helkethlünsav shí
                          Message 12 of 15 , May 4, 2012
                            > Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 22:36:02 -0400
                            > From: danny.c.bowman@...
                            > Subject: TRANSLATION: Air Traffic Control
                            > To: CONLANG@...

                            > This is an interesting and challenging translation exercise.

                            > "Air Traffic Control will allow me to launch my solar balloon next week."

                            > Please do not use the dubitative mood :-)

                            Consider it done. The indicative it is:

                            Chü bvöküchraks chek vangaböhathseng lín sít höi chö mörautílabsöt síteböt cha helkethlünsav shí lomashkélakh.

                            the control.bureau-nom. the-pl. flight-gen./pl. aux.-fut./caus. me-acc. HÖI the solar.balloon-acc. the next.week-loc. "lettingly"-fut.(agrees with aux.) launch
                          • Virginia Keys
                            ... Indeed. Here s my long-winded rendition: Chako Eynahii Aniko-la Iyokaa-la Shanii Nishaa Tey Itohshaa Uhtalu-yu Ileya-la Aneyshaa-chu Vakey. Favored
                            Message 13 of 15 , May 5, 2012
                              On Wed, 2 May 2012 22:36:02 -0400, Daniel Bowman <danny.c.bowman@...> wrote:

                              >This is an interesting and challenging translation exercise.
                              >
                              >"Air Traffic Control will allow me to launch my solar balloon next week."
                              >

                              Indeed. Here's my long-winded rendition:

                              Chako Eynahii Aniko-la Iyokaa-la Shanii Nishaa Tey Itohshaa Uhtalu-yu Ileya-la Aneyshaa-chu Vakey.
                              Favored Officials Port-of Sea-of Middle Sail I Balloon Warmth-by Sun-of Week-in Coming.
                              The officials of the middle-sea port have favored my sailing a balloon by the warmth of the sun in the coming week.

                              http://pics.conlang.org/v/Shateyo_2dws/IMG_20120505_104424.jpg.html

                              This lang is definitely more artistic than practical, lol.
                              Also, the "middle-sea" is the atmosphere, "inner-sea" would be the ocean, and "outer-sea" would be space.

                              --Virginia K.
                            • Daniel Bowman
                              ... That is an incredible picture, and also probably the most poetic statement ever written about the Federal Aviation Administration.
                              Message 14 of 15 , May 5, 2012
                                > http://pics.conlang.org/v/Shateyo_2dws/IMG_20120505_104424.jpg.html
                                >
                                > This lang is definitely more artistic than practical, lol.
                                > Also, the "middle-sea" is the atmosphere, "inner-sea" would be the ocean,
                                > and "outer-sea" would be space.
                                >
                                > --Virginia K.
                                >

                                That is an incredible picture, and also probably the most poetic statement
                                ever written about the Federal Aviation Administration.
                              • Virginia Keys
                                Message 15 of 15 , May 5, 2012
                                  On Sat, 5 May 2012 17:22:49 -0400, Daniel Bowman <danny.c.bowman@...> wrote:

                                  >> http://pics.conlang.org/v/Shateyo_2dws/IMG_20120505_104424.jpg.html
                                  >>
                                  >> This lang is definitely more artistic than practical, lol.
                                  >> Also, the "middle-sea" is the atmosphere, "inner-sea" would be the ocean,
                                  >> and "outer-sea" would be space.
                                  >>
                                  >> --Virginia K.
                                  >>
                                  >
                                  >That is an incredible picture, and also probably the most poetic statement
                                  >ever written about the Federal Aviation Administration.


                                  :D Thank you
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