Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: representing /ts/

Expand Messages
  • BPJ
    ... Northern Saami. Also č = /tS/, z = /dz/ and ž = /dZ/. My conlang Knaske / knQSkE/ has/had c = /ts/, czh = /ts_h/, ch = /x/, cs = /tS/, csh = /tS_h/,
    Message 1 of 20 , Jun 2, 2011
    • 0 Attachment
      2011-06-02 20:40, Scott Hlad skrev:
      > Hello one and all,
      >
      >
      >
      > Are there any languages other than Latin alphabet-using Slavic languages
      > that represent the sound /ts/ with the letter 'c'?

      Northern Saami. Also č = /tS/, z = /dz/ and ž = /dZ/.

      My conlang Knaske /'knQSkE/ has/had c = /ts/, czh = /ts_h/,
      ch = /x/, cs = /tS/, csh = /tS_h/, consciously based on
      Hungarian even in the imaginary history.
      Otherwise my a-priori langs usually have c = /tS/ if
      they use c at all.

      /bpj
    • Scott Hlad
      Thank you everyone for the help with this! Scotto ... From: Constructed Languages List [mailto:CONLANG@listserv.brown.edu] On Behalf Of BPJ Sent: June 2, 2011
      Message 2 of 20 , Jun 2, 2011
      • 0 Attachment
        Thank you everyone for the help with this!\
        Scotto

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Constructed Languages List [mailto:CONLANG@...] On Behalf Of BPJ
        Sent: June 2, 2011 3:38 PM
        To: CONLANG@...
        Subject: Re: representing /ts/

        2011-06-02 20:40, Scott Hlad skrev:
        > Hello one and all,
        >
        >
        >
        > Are there any languages other than Latin alphabet-using Slavic languages
        > that represent the sound /ts/ with the letter 'c'?

        Northern Saami. Also č = /tS/, z = /dz/ and ž = /dZ/.

        My conlang Knaske /'knQSkE/ has/had c = /ts/, czh = /ts_h/,
        ch = /x/, cs = /tS/, csh = /tS_h/, consciously based on
        Hungarian even in the imaginary history.
        Otherwise my a-priori langs usually have c = /tS/ if
        they use c at all.

        /bpj
      • Patrick Dunn
        So . . . whatcha need it for? ... -- I have stretched ropes from steeple to steeple; garlands from window to window; golden chains from star to star, and I
        Message 3 of 20 , Jun 2, 2011
        • 0 Attachment
          So . . . whatcha need it for?



          On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 9:16 PM, Scott Hlad <scott.hlad@...> wrote:

          > Thank you everyone for the help with this!\
          > Scotto
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: Constructed Languages List [mailto:CONLANG@...] On
          > Behalf Of BPJ
          > Sent: June 2, 2011 3:38 PM
          > To: CONLANG@...
          > Subject: Re: representing /ts/
          >
          > 2011-06-02 20:40, Scott Hlad skrev:
          > > Hello one and all,
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Are there any languages other than Latin alphabet-using Slavic languages
          > > that represent the sound /ts/ with the letter 'c'?
          >
          > Northern Saami. Also č = /tS/, z = /dz/ and ž = /dZ/.
          >
          > My conlang Knaske /'knQSkE/ has/had c = /ts/, czh = /ts_h/,
          > ch = /x/, cs = /tS/, csh = /tS_h/, consciously based on
          > Hungarian even in the imaginary history.
          > Otherwise my a-priori langs usually have c = /tS/ if
          > they use c at all.
          >
          > /bpj
          >



          --
          I have stretched ropes from steeple to steeple; garlands from window to
          window; golden chains from star to star, and I dance. --Arthur Rimbaud
        • Philip Newton
          ... You have a bit of an accent there... this doesn t have a word-final postalveolar click in *my* speech, at least :D Cheers, Philip -- Philip Newton
          Message 4 of 20 , Jun 2, 2011
          • 0 Attachment
            On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 04:16, Scott Hlad <scott.hlad@...> wrote:
            > Thank you everyone for the help with this!\

            You have a bit of an accent there... "this" doesn't have a word-final
            postalveolar click in *my* speech, at least :D

            Cheers,
            Philip
            --
            Philip Newton <philip.newton@...>
          • Jim Henry
            ... My gjâ-zym-byn uses c for /ts/; its original orthography was based on that of Esperanto. -- Jim Henry http://www.pobox.com/~jimhenry/
            Message 5 of 20 , Jun 3, 2011
            • 0 Attachment
              On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 5:37 PM, BPJ <bpj@...> wrote:
              > 2011-06-02 20:40, Scott Hlad skrev:
              > My conlang Knaske /'knQSkE/ has/had c = /ts/, czh = /ts_h/,

              My gjâ-zym-byn uses "c" for /ts/; its original orthography was based
              on that of Esperanto.

              --
              Jim Henry
              http://www.pobox.com/~jimhenry/
            • Charlie
              I continue to have problems when writing Senjecas with the Latin alphabet. In light of a recent thread on this list, I m trying to avoid both diacritics and
              Message 6 of 20 , Jun 3, 2011
              • 0 Attachment
                I continue to have problems when writing Senjecas with the Latin alphabet. In light of a recent thread on this list, I'm trying to avoid both diacritics and digraphs as much as possible. We all know how difficult that can be.

                In the beginning I wrote /ts/ as <ć>. Its voiced counterpart, /dz/ was<ź>. It was easy to use <c> for /ts/ (I remember this use from several languages to which others have re-ferred), but how then to keep the symmetry if <ź> were not available? For a while I used <ʒ>, but found that a bit inelegant. Also, when using the Latin orthography, I am always conscious of how to render a grapheme in cursive*. Then I went to the Cyrillic <з>, but finally decided I didn't want a non-Latin letter. I am currently using <ȷ>, whose rendering of /dz/ I found in one of the languages of southern France; I can't remember which one. <j> is not used in Senjecas, but I prefer the dotless form to alert the reader that its sound is not one of the ones he is used to hearing.

                *Speaking of which, I am now using <ə> to render /E/, but how to render that in cursive has me puzzled.

                Charlie

                --- In conlang@yahoogroups.com, Scott Hlad <scott.hlad@...> wrote:
                >
                > Are there any languages other than Latin alphabet-using Slavic
                > languages that represent the sound /ts/ with the letter 'c'?
              • David McCann
                On Thu, 2 Jun 2011 12:40:26 -0600 ... Historically (which might be of interest for a conlang) it started with the palatalisation of Latin /k/ in Gaul and
                Message 7 of 20 , Jun 3, 2011
                • 0 Attachment
                  On Thu, 2 Jun 2011 12:40:26 -0600
                  Scott Hlad <scott.hlad@...> wrote:
                  > Are there any languages other than Latin alphabet-using Slavic
                  > languages that represent the sound /ts/ with the letter 'c'?

                  Historically (which might be of interest for a conlang) it started with
                  the palatalisation of Latin /k/ in Gaul and Iberia. Since people
                  pronounced Latin as a Romance language, {ke} as [tse] was transferred
                  to Germany and thence to all of Central and Eastern Europe.
                • MorphemeAddict
                  In my latest (and probably last) relex of Esperanto, Zbansut, I use the following special characters: ɣ, ð, θ/þ, ŋ have their IPA values. c=ʦ
                  Message 8 of 20 , Jun 3, 2011
                  • 0 Attachment
                    In my latest (and probably last) relex of Esperanto, Zbansut, I use the
                    following special characters:
                    ɣ, ð, θ/þ, ŋ have their IPA values.
                    c=ʦ ĉ=ʧ
                    j=ʣ ĵ=ʤ
                    š=ʃ ž=ȝ
                    The other consonants are b,c,d,f,g,h,k,l,m,n,r,p,s,t,v,x,z. The vowels are
                    a,e,i,o,u. W and y occur only in non-Zbansut names.

                    The c/j thing started from Esperanto, but I wanted to fill out the sounds,
                    and I like this symmetry.
                    I use thorn only to sort theta into its proper place after 't'.

                    stevo

                    On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 11:30 AM, Charlie <caeruleancentaur@...> wrote:

                    > I continue to have problems when writing Senjecas with the Latin alphabet.
                    > In light of a recent thread on this list, I'm trying to avoid both
                    > diacritics and digraphs as much as possible. We all know how difficult that
                    > can be.
                    >
                    > In the beginning I wrote /ts/ as <ć>. Its voiced counterpart, /dz/ was<ź>.
                    > It was easy to use <c> for /ts/ (I remember this use from several languages
                    > to which others have re-ferred), but how then to keep the symmetry if <ź>
                    > were not available? For a while I used <ʒ>, but found that a bit inelegant.
                    > Also, when using the Latin orthography, I am always conscious of how to
                    > render a grapheme in cursive*. Then I went to the Cyrillic <з>, but finally
                    > decided I didn't want a non-Latin letter. I am currently using <ȷ>, whose
                    > rendering of /dz/ I found in one of the languages of southern France; I
                    > can't remember which one. <j> is not used in Senjecas, but I prefer the
                    > dotless form to alert the reader that its sound is not one of the ones he is
                    > used to hearing.
                    >
                    > *Speaking of which, I am now using <ə> to render /E/, but how to render
                    > that in cursive has me puzzled.
                    >
                    > Charlie
                    >
                    > --- In conlang@yahoogroups.com, Scott Hlad <scott.hlad@...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Are there any languages other than Latin alphabet-using Slavic
                    > > languages that represent the sound /ts/ with the letter 'c'?
                    >
                  • Philip Newton
                    ... I presume you mean /ʒ/? Yogh is not an IPA letter. Cheers, Philip -- Philip Newton
                    Message 9 of 20 , Jun 3, 2011
                    • 0 Attachment
                      On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 19:01, MorphemeAddict <lytlesw@...> wrote:
                      > ž=ȝ

                      I presume you mean /ʒ/? Yogh is not an IPA letter.

                      Cheers,
                      Philip
                      --
                      Philip Newton <philip.newton@...>
                    • MorphemeAddict
                      Yes, sorry. I wondered why it looked funny. stevo
                      Message 10 of 20 , Jun 4, 2011
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Yes, sorry. I wondered why it looked funny.

                        stevo

                        On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 1:59 PM, Philip Newton <philip.newton@...>wrote:

                        > On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 19:01, MorphemeAddict <lytlesw@...> wrote:
                        > > ž=ȝ
                        >
                        > I presume you mean /ʒ/? Yogh is not an IPA letter.
                        >
                        > Cheers,
                        > Philip
                        > --
                        > Philip Newton <philip.newton@...>
                        >
                      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.