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Re: Reading and Writing

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  • Roger Mills
    It turns out that the Kash word for write _uri_ is borrowed from very old Gwr (Proto Bau Da Gwr *uris (modern BDG lwih), but what it might have meant there
    Message 1 of 39 , May 1, 2011
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      It turns out that the Kash word for 'write' _uri_ is borrowed from very old Gwr (Proto Bau Da Gwr *uris (modern BDG lwih), but what it might have meant there originally I haven't determined yet. (Actually I cheated-- created the Gwr form long after the Kash one :-((( but still, it would figure.

      Kash "read" _nolit_ must also be an old borrowing from Gwr, but the same comment as above applies.

      I haven't checked Prevli, but since they don't read/write their own language, I imagine they've borrowed from Kash (within the last 2000 years)

      BTW in Malay/Indonesian, "surat" is 'write' and appears to have spread all over the area, even to the Philippines. (Could it possibly be < Arabaic?) A hint of an earlier meaning-- in one language I know of the reflex means 'to remember'.

      'To read', where it appears, is a Sanskrit borrowing < vacya IIRC which means 'cause to speak' IIRC.

      Ml/Indo also use 'tulis' for 'write', but it hasn't spread; nor is the original meaning evident.
    • R A Brown
      ... Yep - I should ve remembered that! Tho it has been a while since I read about Trimalchio & co. ;) Yes, it s the small copper coin meaning of _as_ which,
      Message 39 of 39 , May 5, 2011
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        On 05/05/2011 16:58, David McCann wrote:
        > On Thu, 5 May 2011 14:24:12 +0100 R A
        > Brown<ray@...> wrote:
        >
        >> BTW I can see that _abassecrevit_ could be split as
        >> either _Abas secrevit_ or the equally grammatical _ab
        >> asse crevit_; but the possible meanings are so
        >> different it's takes a bit of imagination to think of a
        >> context in which _ab asse crevit_ could have been
        >> misconstrued _Abas secrevit_. It makes me suspect the
        >> story is apocryphal - but I could be wrong.
        >>
        > The original context was a description of a wealthy man
        > who's just died (I'd misremembered in my original post):
        > ab asse crevit 'he started with a penny'.

        Yep - I should've remembered that! Tho it has been a while
        since I read about Trimalchio & co. ;)

        Yes, it's the small copper coin meaning of _as_ which, by
        Petronius' time, had become almost worthless.

        Ab asse crevit et paratus fuit quadrantem de stercore
        mordicus tollere
        He started with a penny and was ready [to the last] to pick
        a farthing out of a dunghill with his teeth.

        Note (for those with little or no Latin):
        - the use of the perfect _fuit_ rather than the more common
        _erat_ for "was" gives a meaning like "was .... to the last".
        - _quadrans_ (acc. quadrantem) was a quarter of an _as_
        (i.e. three inches, three ounces etc.). Hence if we
        translate _as_ as "penny" then _quadrans_ is a farthing (we
        still used them when I was a little kid in short trousers!)
        - _mordicus_ is an adverb meaning "by biting, with one's teeth."

        > The bad text was obviously produced by a sleepy scribe on
        > autopilot, although how he could fail to pay attention to
        > Petronius is beyond me!

        Absolutely! Maybe he too had been drinking too much wine. He
        sure had to be sleepy to have "Abas secrevit et paratus fuit
        quadrantem de stercore mordicus tollere"

        As _secrevit_ needs an object, being a transitive verb, we'd
        have to have _quadrantem_ as object of both _secrevit_ and
        _tollere_ - which is perfectly possible:
        "Abas spotted a farthing and had been ready to pick it out
        of a dunghill with his teeth."

        > Its total irrelevance is the
        > reason why it's quoted as an example of what can happen
        > in MSS.
        >

        Totally irrelevant as they've been talking about *Chrysanthus*!

        --
        Ray
        ==================================
        http://www.carolandray.plus.com
        ==================================
        Nid rhy hen neb i ddysgu.
        There's none too old to learn.
        [WELSH PROVERB]
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