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YART - Yet Another Romlang Thread : Syrunian

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  • Iuhan Culmærija
    Haai everyone, I ve just done the Why do they want to stop us Translation excersise - so I think it s time I introduce Syrunian. Its more of a personal
    Message 1 of 12 , Apr 6, 2011
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      Haai everyone,

      I've just done the "Why do they want to stop us" Translation excersise - so
      I think it's time I introduce Syrunian.

      Its more of a personal language than a historically accurate language.
      Besides the verb "to be," the language is unnaturally regular.

      Its a romlang spoken in Syria. It has influences of Hebrew and Aramaic,
      later Arabic and "modern loan-words" from French.
      The name is derived from: Sirija + Rumanija (Syrian + Roman
      (language)) > Sirija
      + Rumnia > Siri_ + Runija > Sir*ir*unija > (+elision: ‘ir’ ) Sirunija

      The ALT-HISTORY of Syrunian begins with the Roman Empire, in the Province of
      Syria. The city of Antioch was the capital of Syria. It was one of the
      largest cities in the ancient world, as well as one of the largest centres
      of trade and industry. As a result, Latin was adopted as a common
      vernacular, despite the local tongues remaining popular in surrounding
      Provinces, and Latin being replaced by Greek.
      The exposure to Hebrew and Aramaic (Jews and early Christians) greatly
      influenced the development of *Syrian Latin*, most superficially, in terms
      of pronunciation. Numerous Syriac and Hebrew terms (mostly terms for
      agriculture and geography) were absorbed into the language.

      The province was later conquered by Islam, introducing Arabic. In 1922 the
      League of Nations split the dominion of the former Syria; what was to become
      modern-day Syria was put under French mandate.Syria under French mandate
      exposed Syrunian to French. Numerous contemporary borrowings, are taken from
      French, like *Internet *and* al‑aurdinatur *[< l’ordinateur; computer].
      The Syrunian language is that of a *minority* community in South-western
      Syria bordering Israel and Lebanon. Due to their language, Syrunian
      communities have been generally distanced from society – including the
      Israeli-Palestinian/ Arab conflict.

      In terms of GRAMMAR:

      Its predominantly VSO, like the Semitic tongues (and, in my experience, the
      Vulgate: 'in principio creavit Deus...')

      Nouns inflect for 3 cases, or States: Emphatic (nominative), Absolute
      (prepositional and Accusative) and the Construct (prepositional and
      Genetive)
      The name 'Peter' shows the inflection nicely:
      EMP: Peter
      ABS: Petrem, Petrim (final "um, im" in Latin is accusative in most
      inflection groups)
      CON: Petre, Petrei
      the medial vowel gets moved in Absolute and Construct states. Something I
      read in a Syriac grammar

      Verbs conjugate for the Standard, average Romance catergories, but in 3rd
      person singular, it destinguistes a masculine and feminine adressee.

      Here is the text from the Translation challenge:

      > > "I wish to know who it is who wishes us stopped, and
      > > moreover, why?"
      > >
      desiθra eħ sħaver, est-ċe qis qi vult qej sums nus iħuntsezis ;
      ħraviuramenth, fer qhu ?

      > > "Yes, why? For, if we do not know what we are doing,
      > then it follows no one else does either; and, if no one knows what we
      > are going to do, well then, why is someone so determined to prevent us
      > from doing it?"
      > >
      ina σeh, fer qhu ? hatu, se ne-sħavrejms nus qej farvams, eħru est-ċe qej
      ne‑sħavrejnt pazinna persuns auters ; et, se ne‑sħavrejnt persuns qes
      farams, aheh, fer qhu est qelci deθremin fral‑fruħibσne dal-le q’ etejt
      faħis ?

      Its rather phonetic:
      θ = T, D
      ħ = (h-stroke) x, X
      ċ = (c-dot) tS
      ġ = (g-dot) dZ
      ż = (z-dot) Z
      σ = (Coptic shima) S

      I've also worked out a scheme to write this in the Hebrew script.

      Please give me some comments - I'm not entirely happy with the result -- but
      conlangs do take years of work,

      regards,
      Iuhane
    • Padraic Brown
      ... I would suspect that most of the Vulgate is not VSO -- but I could be wrong! ... Interesting! Loucarian nouns inflect similarly (though the influences
      Message 2 of 12 , Apr 7, 2011
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        --- On Wed, 4/6/11, Iuhan Culmærija <culmaer@...> wrote:

        > In terms of GRAMMAR:
        >
        > Its predominantly VSO, like the Semitic tongues (and, in my
        > experience, the
        > Vulgate: 'in principio creavit Deus...')

        I would suspect that most of the Vulgate is not VSO -- but I could be
        wrong!

        > Nouns inflect for 3 cases, or States: Emphatic
        > (nominative), Absolute
        > (prepositional and Accusative) and the Construct
        > (prepositional and
        > Genetive)
        > The name 'Peter' shows the inflection nicely:
        > EMP: Peter
        > ABS: Petrem, Petrim (final "um, im" in Latin is accusative
        > in most
        > inflection groups)
        > CON: Petre, Petrei
        > the medial vowel gets moved in Absolute and Construct
        > states. Something I read in a Syriac grammar

        Interesting! Loucarian nouns inflect similarly (though the influences
        would be Punic and Court Akkadian, rather than Arabic or Aramaic).
        Most uses of nouns involve them declining in normal fashion in the
        "regulated state". When one noun forms a predicate with another, the
        predicate is found in the "absolute state". Compounds are formed with the
        main noun in the "construct state". So:

        reg.
        nom. bilas (boss); sarccas (thief)
        obl. bilam; sarccam

        abs. bil; sarq

        cons. bile; sarcce

        So:
        puplent al bilas (a rich boss) -- normal adjective + noun order
        sarq al bilas (the boss is a thief) -- absolute state predicate
        al bilas ica sarcce al lougrion = boss is an embezzler (the boss he is
        money's thief) -- construct state compound

        And by a curious turn of declension, once the embezzlement is discovered:

        sarq al bilas (the boss is dead meat) -- a predicate, in this case with
        sarccis, flesh, meat, carcass. Almost certainly accompanied by a dramatic
        bit of gesticulation.

        There is an optional feminine declension:

        lady thief:
        nom  bilet
        obl  biletam
        abs  bilet
        con  bilte

        This is only used if you want to make a federal case out of the femininity
        of the person. Bilas just means "thief" with no associated gender.

        > Verbs conjugate for the Standard, average Romance
        > catergories, but in 3rd
        > person singular, it destinguistes a masculine and feminine
        > adressee.

        Loucarian has none of the standard Romance categories:

        latrolêre to steal; I/you/etc steal
        latrolándo I/you/etc are stealing
        latrolêto I/you/etc stole
        lelatrolándo I/you/etc were stealing
        eiolatrolêre I/you/etc will steal

        ierelatrolêto I/you/etc are being stolen
        fierelatrolêto I/you/etc are about to be / are liable to be stolen

        > Here is the text from the Translation challenge:
        >
        > > > "I wish to know who it is who wishes us stopped,
        > and
        > > > moreover, why?"
        > > >
        >  desiθra eħ sħaver, est-ċe qis qi vult qej sums nus
        > iħuntsezis ;
        > ħraviuramenth, fer qhu ?

        I like the sound of Syrunian! I can see (what I suppose must be) some
        French influence -- est-ce qis qi looks like what I remember of a
        French turn of phrase.

        > Please give me some comments - I'm not entirely happy with
        > the result -- but
        > conlangs do take years of work,

        What sorts of things are you unhappy with?

        Padraic
      • Peter Bleackley
        ... In this passage St Jerome was probably consciously imitating the word order of the Hebrew bereshit bara Elohim... Pete
        Message 3 of 12 , Apr 7, 2011
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          staving Padraic Brown:
          > --- On Wed, 4/6/11, Iuhan Culmærija<culmaer@...> wrote:
          >
          >> In terms of GRAMMAR:
          >>
          >> Its predominantly VSO, like the Semitic tongues (and, in my
          >> experience, the
          >> Vulgate: 'in principio creavit Deus...')
          >
          > I would suspect that most of the Vulgate is not VSO -- but I could be
          > wrong!
          >

          In this passage St Jerome was probably consciously imitating the word
          order of the Hebrew

          bereshit bara Elohim...

          Pete
        • Adam Walker
          On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 10:45 AM, Peter Bleackley
          Message 4 of 12 , Apr 7, 2011
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            On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 10:45 AM, Peter Bleackley <
            peter.bleackley@...> wrote:

            > staving Padraic Brown:
            >
            > --- On Wed, 4/6/11, Iuhan Culmærija<culmaer@...> wrote:
            >>
            >> In terms of GRAMMAR:
            >>>
            >>> Its predominantly VSO, like the Semitic tongues (and, in my
            >>> experience, the
            >>> Vulgate: 'in principio creavit Deus...')
            >>>
            >>
            >> I would suspect that most of the Vulgate is not VSO -- but I could be
            >> wrong!
            >>
            >>
            > In this passage St Jerome was probably consciously imitating the word order
            > of the Hebrew
            >
            > bereshit bara Elohim...
            >
            > Pete
            >

            Well, I can't speak for the whole Vulgate, but the entire first chapter of
            Genesis is strongly VSO. Of course you have to take into account the large
            number of verbs without overt subjects since Latin didn't have third person
            pronouns, but there are very few exapmles (v.2) of an overt subject coming
            before the verb. On the other hand there are several prepositional phrases,
            predicate accusatives and such that appear before thier verbs. Like I said,
            I'm not sure if that style holds throughought, but I wouldn't be surprised,
            since Classical Latin, while allowing free word order, had a preference for
            VSO and the Hebrew Jerome was translating from was also VSO. I wonder if
            the New Testament shows different word order preferences. I also know that
            the Vetus versions have been noted as being virtually word-for-word
            translations of the original languages, so I would expect them to be VSO in
            the Old Testament.

            Carrajina, my Romlang, is VSO. With a Punic substrate and influence from
            the Vestus and Vulgate and then the influce of an Arabic adstrate, how could
            it not be?

            Adam
          • Michael Everson
            ... In principio is a prepositional phrase, and beginning a sentence with such a phrase often causes a syntactic inversion. Ich habe meinem Bruder ein Buch
            Message 5 of 12 , Apr 7, 2011
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              On 7 Apr 2011, at 16:45, Peter Bleackley wrote:

              >>> Its predominantly VSO, like the Semitic tongues (and, in my experience, the Vulgate: 'in principio creavit Deus...')
              >>
              >> I would suspect that most of the Vulgate is not VSO -- but I could be wrong!
              >
              > In this passage St Jerome was probably consciously imitating the word order of the Hebrew
              >
              > bereshit bara Elohim...

              "In principio" is a prepositional phrase, and beginning a sentence with such a phrase often causes a syntactic inversion.

              Ich habe meinem Bruder ein Buch gegeben.
              In März habe ich meinem Bruder ein Buch gegeben.

              I doubt you can say much about Jerome's word order from the first sentence as it is thus marked. Isn't the unmarked sentence SOV, "Vestis virum reddit" 'clothes make the man'?

              Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
            • kechpaja
              ... Actually, it did — is, ea, id. However, they were often omitted in the subject position. ... Wait... I was taught that Classical Latin preferred SOV.
              Message 6 of 12 , Apr 7, 2011
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                > Latin didn't have third person
                > pronouns,

                Actually, it did — is, ea, id. However, they were often omitted in the subject position.

                > Classical Latin, while allowing free word order, had a preference for
                > VSO

                Wait... I was taught that Classical Latin preferred SOV.
              • Iuhan Culmærija
                Haai everyone, 2011/4/7 Padraic Brown ... indeed ‘est-ċe qis qi’ is… uh… borrowed from French -- at least the French influence
                Message 7 of 12 , Apr 8, 2011
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                  Haai everyone,

                  2011/4/7 Padraic Brown <elemtilas@...>

                  > --- On Wed, 4/6/11, Iuhan Culmærija <culmaer@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > > > >
                  > > desiθra eħ sħaver, est-ċe qis qi vult qej sums nus
                  > > iħuntsezis ;
                  > > ħraviuramenth, fer qhu ?
                  >
                  > I like the sound of Syrunian! I can see (what I suppose must be) some
                  > French influence -- est-ce qis qi looks like what I remember of a
                  > French turn of phrase.


                  indeed ‘est-ċe qis qi’ is… uh… borrowed from French -- at least the French
                  influence is justified in the alt‑history, or I would have struggled
                  alot with that phrase.


                  > > Please give me some comments - I'm not entirely happy with
                  > > the result -- but
                  > > conlangs do take years of work,
                  >
                  > What sorts of things are you unhappy with?



                  The sound! Some words sound too Latin, and other appear
                  ‘forced-to-sound-Semitic’ rather than a natural progression. I do have a
                  GMP, perhaps I’m not strict enough in its application. I hope too that I’ll
                  feel better about the language once I get more comfortable with VSO. I
                  admit, SOV would have been easier (it is my favourite order) – but:



                  The Vulgate’s Genesis (to me: someone who knows no Latin) appears to be VSO.
                  Whether this is as a result of prepositional inversion, or an imitation of
                  Hebrew. I’m sure the Syrunians would share my sentiments. And of course,
                  their L1s (Hebrew, Syriac Aramaic, Arabic) were/are VSO too. How could
                  Syrunian not be VSO.




                  2011/4/7 Adam Walker carraxan@...

                  > Carrajina, my Romlang, is VSO. With a Punic substrate and influence from
                  > the Vestus and Vulgate and then the influce of an Arabic adstrate, how
                  > could
                  > it not be?
                  >
                  Indeed. How could Carrajina and Syrunian not be VSO?


                  Could I be directed to grammars of Carrajina (I don’t think I could access
                  it via the ‘Carrajina Project Page’) and of Loucarian too please! And does
                  anyone know what happened to Judajca (?), Google just sends me to the List
                  archives, not to actual conlang pages.



                  I hope Bâzrâmani becomes more than a sketchlang soon – Persian was my
                  intended influence, but somehow I ended up using Aramaic instead, so I àm
                  rather interested to see what happens.



                  =======TRANSLATION=======

                  Article 1 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights in Syrunian:



                  ==Latin alphabet:

                  Sunt nasħuntaθs aunes ħuns libers, eħuals et sam al-dihnte al-żihursqe. Sunt
                  dunati luir dal‑raσnim dal‑cusħentsimsqe et est-ċi avulet q’ agiσint ilar
                  sifral-autres sam al-sfirte fraθres.



                  ==Syrunian Hebraic alphabet:

                  סונט נאסחוטאתס אונעס חונס ליבערס ,עחואלס עט סאם אל-דיהנטע אל-זּיהורסכע. סונט
                  דונאטי לויר דאל-ראשנים דאל-קוסחעצימסכע עט עסט-צּי אוּולעט כ אגישינט ילאר
                  סיףראל-אוטרעס סאם אל-סףירטע ףראתרעס.



                  ==pronunciation:

                  /sunt nasxU:ntaDz awnez xU:nz liberz exwa:ls et sam: al di:ntE: al
                  ZihU:rsq@sunt duna:ti lwir dal raSni:m dal kusxE:ntsims q@et est:Si
                  avulE:t qagiSi:nt ila:r sifralawtrE:s samal sfirtE: fraTrE:s/

                  * /q/ = [q] or [X]



                  ==Interlinear gloss:

                  _sunt nasħuntaθs aunes ħuns libers, eħuals et sam al-dihnte al-żihurs| qe._

                  be.3P bornPP all people.E free , equal and with the-dignity.C the-rights|
                  and.

                  “all people are born free, equal and with the dignity and the rights.”



                  _sunt dunati luir d| al‑raσnim d| al‑cusħentsims| qe_

                  be.3P givePP them.A of| the-reason.A of| the-conscience.A| and

                  “to them are given of the reason and of the conscience”



                  _et est-ċi avulet q’ agiσint ilar sifr| al-autres sam al-sfirte fraθres_

                  and is-it proper REL act.3P they.E unto| the-others.C with the-spirit.C
                  brothers.C

                  “and it is proper that they act unto the others with the spirit of
                  brothers.”


                  Regards,
                  Iuhan
                • Adam Walker
                  ... Well, I am affraid, I never got around to posting a lot of information about the grammar to my web site even before I took large sections down for an
                  Message 8 of 12 , Apr 8, 2011
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                    On Fri, Apr 8, 2011 at 11:16 AM, Iuhan Culmærija <culmaer@...> wrote:

                    > Haai everyone,
                    >
                    > Could I be directed to grammars of Carrajina (I don’t think I could access
                    > it via the ‘Carrajina Project Page’) and of Loucarian too please! And does
                    > anyone know what happened to Judajca (?), Google just sends me to the List
                    > archives, not to actual conlang pages.
                    >

                    Well, I am affraid, I never got around to posting a lot of information about
                    the grammar to my web site even before I took large sections down for an
                    overhaul that has never happened. I *did* finally get the letter A back up
                    on the C-a to English side of the dictionary, and I am concidering just
                    putting the whole English to C-a side back up. But you're right, I really
                    should develpo the grammar part MUCH more.

                    I don't know what has happened to Judajca. Steg is one of several
                    conlangers whose cotributions I very much miss these days. Jan and Itzik
                    would also be on my short list of I-really-wish-they'd-come-backs. Oh and
                    John Cowan. Oh and Yoon Ha. Gee, now I feel old.

                    Adam
                  • Padraic Brown
                    ... I always liked this language. ... You feel old! I recall when they first started with us! Now I feel old too. Thanks! :P ... Padraic
                    Message 9 of 12 , Apr 8, 2011
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                      --- On Fri, 4/8/11, Adam Walker <carraxan@...> wrote:

                      > I don't know what has happened to Judajca. 

                      I always liked this language.

                      > Steg is one of several
                      > conlangers whose cotributions I very much miss these
                      > days.  Jan and Itzik
                      > would also be on my short list of
                      > I-really-wish-they'd-come-backs.  Oh and
                      > John Cowan.  Oh and Yoon Ha.  Gee, now I feel
                      > old.

                      You feel old! I recall when they first started with us!

                      Now I feel old too. Thanks! :P

                      > Adam

                      Padraic
                    • Adam Walker
                      ... Well, I remember when Yoon Ha showed up, and Itzik, but IIRC Steg was already here when I came, and I *know* John was a fixture long before me. It s nice
                      Message 10 of 12 , Apr 8, 2011
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                        On Fri, Apr 8, 2011 at 12:52 PM, Padraic Brown <elemtilas@...> wrote:

                        > --- On Fri, 4/8/11, Adam Walker <carraxan@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > > I don't know what has happened to Judajca.
                        >
                        > I always liked this language.
                        >
                        > > Steg is one of several
                        > > conlangers whose cotributions I very much miss these
                        > > days. Jan and Itzik
                        > > would also be on my short list of
                        > > I-really-wish-they'd-come-backs. Oh and
                        > > John Cowan. Oh and Yoon Ha. Gee, now I feel
                        > > old.
                        >
                        > You feel old! I recall when they first started with us!
                        >
                        > Now I feel old too. Thanks! :P
                        >
                        > > Adam
                        >
                        > Padraic
                        >


                        Well, I remember when Yoon Ha showed up, and Itzik, but IIRC Steg was
                        already here when I came, and I *know* John was a fixture long before me.
                        It's nice that you've been more active of late. Now if Henrik Theisen would
                        show back up, or Mark Shoulson. And Sally has been conspicuously quiet of
                        late. And whatever happened to Chlewy?

                        Adam who is stuck in Memory Lane just off Diagon Allley
                      • Padraic Brown
                        ... I guess it would hard to borrow without some kind of close contact! It won t fit with Loucarian, but I have to say it looks normal with what I ve seen of
                        Message 11 of 12 , Apr 8, 2011
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                          --- On Fri, 4/8/11, Iuhan Culmærija <culmaer@...> wrote:

                          > > I like the sound of Syrunian! I can see (what I
                          > > suppose must be) some
                          > > French influence -- est-ce qis qi looks like what I
                          > > remember of a French turn of phrase.
                          >
                          > indeed ‘est-ċe qis qi’ is… uh… borrowed from
                          > French -- at least the French
                          > influence is justified in the alt‑history, or I would
                          > have struggled alot with that phrase.

                          I guess it would hard to borrow without some kind of close contact!
                          It won't fit with Loucarian, but I have to say it looks normal with
                          what I've seen of Syrunian.

                          > > > Please give me some comments - I'm not entirely happy with
                          > > > the result -- but conlangs do take years of work,
                          > >
                          > > What sorts of things are you unhappy with?
                          >
                          > The sound! Some words sound too Latin, and other appear
                          > ‘forced-to-sound-Semitic’ rather than a natural
                          > progression.

                          I see. Diachronicity is not an easy thing to attain. It requires a much
                          deeper level of construction than just "Latin O becomes Conlang OU".

                          > I do have a
                          > GMP, perhaps I’m not strict enough in its application.

                          Perhaps you're on the contrary being too strict in its application! I
                          have always tried to avoid building GMPs, because I'd feel like I had to
                          follow it! In a simple, timeless, GMP that I find with most conlangs,
                          they only allow me to see one leaping change. A real language changes
                          imperceptibly over time, and while a conlanger can't really mark the
                          changes in his conlang for every year over a period of a thousand years,
                          he can (and I think in cases like Syrunian or Loucarian, that intend to
                          be modern languages with a history, should) attempt to show some kinds of
                          changes through time.

                          Real languages are also influenced by neighbours and by accidents of local
                          history. Perhaps some sound changes could be introduced that don't
                          exactly fit the scheme of the GMP. Perhaps one ancient dialect of the
                          language could undergo a change, then influence the other dialect, then
                          itself disappear, leaving behind a series of exceptions to the GMP.

                          In the case of Loucarian, there are about 2500 years of history and at
                          least two shifts in underlying grammar -- it started life as a pigin
                          that creolised between Etruscan and Greek; then later shifted to a
                          largely Italic/Latin base. There's a lot of room for unusual sound
                          changes, many of which are ideosyncratic or unique.

                          Take the word puplent (rich). It doesn't fit the "GMP" of Latin opulentia,
                          which should yield something like opalensiias. In stead, the somewhat
                          uncouth speech of sailors and traders stumbled over the Ps and Ls to
                          yield something like *popolentias and then puplensiias (wealth). This
                          happens in several words.

                          > I hope too that I’ll
                          > feel better about the language once I get more comfortable
                          > with VSO.

                          VSO is fun. Kerno turned out to be VSO in its ordinary spoken form.

                          > I admit, SOV would have been easier (it is my favourite
                          > order) – but:
                          >
                          > The Vulgate’s Genesis (to me: someone who knows no Latin)
                          > appears to be VSO.

                          Indeed, it seems from responses I've read here that portions of it are
                          in fact VSO. Not because Latin is VSO, but because the language they
                          translated from used that order and the translation was literal.

                          > Whether this is as a result of prepositional inversion, or
                          > an imitation of
                          > Hebrew. I’m sure the Syrunians would share my sentiments.
                          > And of course,
                          > their L1s (Hebrew, Syriac Aramaic, Arabic) were/are VSO
                          > too. How could Syrunian not be VSO.

                          Indeed! Now, to sort out why Loucarian is SVO, even though it has many
                          of the same influences as Syrunian! Punic I think is VSO, as was
                          Coptic. However, Akkadian seems to have been SOV.

                          > Could I be directed to grammars of Carrajina (I don’t
                          > think I could access
                          > it via the ‘Carrajina Project Page’) and of Loucarian
                          > too please!

                          I'm in the process of writing a grammar description for Loucarian. Right
                          now, some things (like vowel length and accent and pronunciation) are in
                          flux and liable to change. I think what I'd like to do is put a condensed
                          form of the grammar at Frath Wiki.

                          I know I put some wrong verb forms with one of my previous posts -- will
                          have to make sure that doesn't get propagated!

                          Padraic
                        • Padraic Brown
                          ... Indeed, John was here a while before me as well. I started about a year after the shift from diku to brown. Before that time, all conlanging was entirely
                          Message 12 of 12 , Apr 9, 2011
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                            --- On Fri, 4/8/11, Adam Walker <carraxan@...> wrote:

                            > Well, I remember when Yoon Ha showed up, and Itzik, but
                            > IIRC Steg was
                            > already here when I came, and I *know* John was a fixture
                            > long before me.

                            Indeed, John was here a while before me as well. I started about a year
                            after the shift from diku to brown. Before that time, all conlanging was
                            entirely private. And indeed, I never even knew other people were doing
                            the same thing!

                            > It's nice that you've been more active of late. 

                            It is nice to be back, though a lot of the folks are unfamiliar from
                            before!

                            > Now if Henrik Theisen would
                            > show back up, or Mark Shoulson.  And Sally has been
                            > conspicuously quiet of
                            > late.  And whatever happened to Chlewy?
                            >
                            > Adam who is stuck in Memory Lane just off Diagon Allley

                            Wow, there's some names from long ago! I think Sally has simply disappeared
                            beneath the waves of the Black Sea along with the rest of Teonea. She'll
                            be back one of these days. I used to send her a Christmas card in Teonaht,
                            but haven't done that in a long while.

                            Chlewey (note the second E!) seems to have disappeared from the locality,
                            but seems to be still active on-line. He has face book and twitter
                            presences (whatever those are, I don't really know), and lists conlanging
                            as an interest, so he's not entirely lost! (Note: there is a "Chlewy"
                            in the Czeck Republic, who doesn't appear to be a conlanger at all.)

                            Padraic
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