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Re: Arabic Morphology Resource?

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  • Dirk Elzinga
    You should look at: McCarthy, John and Alan Prince. 1990. Foot and Word in Prosodic Morphology: The Arabic Broken Plural. Natural Language and Linguistic
    Message 1 of 9 , Dec 2, 2009
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      You should look at:

      McCarthy, John and Alan Prince. 1990. Foot and Word in Prosodic Morphology:
      The Arabic Broken Plural. Natural Language and Linguistic Theory 8: 209-283.

      They cite

      Wright, W. 1971 (reprint). A Grammar of the Arabic Language. Cambridge
      University Press.

      as the source of their data. They also reproduce Wright's broken plural
      taxonomy, but reorganize it for their own purposes.

      The whole paper is worth reading, even if you don't agree with their
      approach.

      On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 1:46 AM, David Peterson <dedalvs@...> wrote:

      > On Dec 1, 2009, at 5◊43 PM, Harry Aspinwall wrote:
      >
      > > Here are al-awzaan of verbs as I understand them (in past tense third
      > > singular masculine form, as in the grammars):
      > >
      > > 1. fa3ala/fa3ula/fa3ila - basic form
      > > 2. fa33ala - causative or intensive
      > > 3. faa3ala - associative, doing something with another person
      > > 4. 'af3ala - causative or intensive (often with an animate or
      > > conceptual object, I think)
      > > 5. tafa33ala - mostly reflexive of 2 or intensive of 1
      > > 6. tafaa3ala - reciprocal
      > > 7. infa3ala - reflexive or passive of 1 (sort of middle voice)
      > > 8. ifta3ala - many meanings, including reflexive and reflexive-beneficial
      > > 9. if3alla - defective verbs (rare - generally referring to a colour)
      > > 10. istaf3ala - seeking or demanding something, or considering
      > > something to be a certain way
      >
      > Ah HA! This is half of it! My Al-Kitaab book has these 10 forms,
      > and has names for them, but it's the *description* that you've
      > provided that was missing. THANK YOU! (And thanks for the
      > example below, too, which I'm snipping.)
      >
      > > I had a
      > > chart which showed all al-awzaan forms for all forms of the verb; If
      > > it turns up I'll let you know.
      >
      > Especially if you can scan it...
      >
      > > Here are some awzaan off the top of my
      > > head -
      > >
      > > A few "broken plurals" (where the stem changes into different awzaan,
      > > rather than a regular suffix), "jumu3 at-taksiir":
      > >
      > > mediina, city - mudun, cities
      > > kitaab, book - kutub, books
      > > saHifa, newspaper - suHuf, newpapers
      > >
      > > rajul, man - rijaal, men
      > > saakin, inhabitant - sukkaaan, inhabitants
      > >
      > > funduq, hotel - fanaadiq, hotels
      > >
      > > walad, young man - awlaad, young men
      > > shay', thing - ashyaa', things
      > > fa3al, verb - af3aal, verbs
      >
      > Okay, what you're describing above as "broken plurals", I've
      > always understood to be "masculine plurals". That is, all the
      > feminine nouns that end in taa marbuta get their regular plural
      > in /-aat/, but all the masculine nouns get some funky plural
      > (except for a few human nouns which get /-uun/). I'd always
      > assumed "broken plural" meant certain highly irregular masculine
      > plurals...
      >
      > Now I've seen the CuCuC plural form before (in fact, there's
      > another one I remember: jaTiT "corpse" > juTuT "corpses").
      > What I was hoping to be able to see is something like this:
      >
      > kitaab "book" > kutub "books"
      > mimaam "example 1" > mumum "example 1 plural"
      > ninaan "example 2" > nunun "example 2 plural"
      > Pattern: fi3aal > fu3ul
      >
      > Then you could say that this is a particular irregular pattern,
      > find all the nouns that fit it, and (perhaps) come up with a
      > generalization about which nouns typically fall into that
      > pattern (even if it's totally random, semantically).
      >
      > > I hope that helps at all! I do love Arabic grammar.
      >
      > It certainly does! Thanks!
      >
      > -David
      > *******************************************************************
      > "sunly eleSkarez ygralleryf ydZZixelje je ox2mejze."
      > "No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn."
      >
      > -Jim Morrison
      >
      > http://dedalvs.com/
      >
      > LCS Member Since 2007
      > http://conlang.org/
      >
    • Shair Ahmed
      Do any of you have information about the very rare verb awzaan 11-16? All I ve found are their forms, but I d like to see some examples and their meanings.
      Message 2 of 9 , Dec 2, 2009
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        Do any of you have information about the very rare verb awzaan 11-16? All
        I've found are their forms, but I'd like to see some examples and their
        meanings.

        Also, a related question: do any of you know of verbs that don't fit any
        wazn?

        Thanks,
        Aeetlrcreejl

        Nī hod poc lije, duğams!


        On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 3:58 PM, Dirk Elzinga <dirk.elzinga@...> wrote:

        > You should look at:
        >
        > McCarthy, John and Alan Prince. 1990. Foot and Word in Prosodic Morphology:
        > The Arabic Broken Plural. Natural Language and Linguistic Theory 8:
        > 209-283.
        >
        > They cite
        >
        > Wright, W. 1971 (reprint). A Grammar of the Arabic Language. Cambridge
        > University Press.
        >
        > as the source of their data. They also reproduce Wright's broken plural
        > taxonomy, but reorganize it for their own purposes.
        >
        > The whole paper is worth reading, even if you don't agree with their
        > approach.
        >
        > On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 1:46 AM, David Peterson <dedalvs@...> wrote:
        >
        > > On Dec 1, 2009, at 5◊43 PM, Harry Aspinwall wrote:
        > >
        > > > Here are al-awzaan of verbs as I understand them (in past tense third
        > > > singular masculine form, as in the grammars):
        > > >
        > > > 1. fa3ala/fa3ula/fa3ila - basic form
        > > > 2. fa33ala - causative or intensive
        > > > 3. faa3ala - associative, doing something with another person
        > > > 4. 'af3ala - causative or intensive (often with an animate or
        > > > conceptual object, I think)
        > > > 5. tafa33ala - mostly reflexive of 2 or intensive of 1
        > > > 6. tafaa3ala - reciprocal
        > > > 7. infa3ala - reflexive or passive of 1 (sort of middle voice)
        > > > 8. ifta3ala - many meanings, including reflexive and
        > reflexive-beneficial
        > > > 9. if3alla - defective verbs (rare - generally referring to a colour)
        > > > 10. istaf3ala - seeking or demanding something, or considering
        > > > something to be a certain way
        > >
        > > Ah HA! This is half of it! My Al-Kitaab book has these 10 forms,
        > > and has names for them, but it's the *description* that you've
        > > provided that was missing. THANK YOU! (And thanks for the
        > > example below, too, which I'm snipping.)
        > >
        > > > I had a
        > > > chart which showed all al-awzaan forms for all forms of the verb; If
        > > > it turns up I'll let you know.
        > >
        > > Especially if you can scan it...
        > >
        > > > Here are some awzaan off the top of my
        > > > head -
        > > >
        > > > A few "broken plurals" (where the stem changes into different awzaan,
        > > > rather than a regular suffix), "jumu3 at-taksiir":
        > > >
        > > > mediina, city - mudun, cities
        > > > kitaab, book - kutub, books
        > > > saHifa, newspaper - suHuf, newpapers
        > > >
        > > > rajul, man - rijaal, men
        > > > saakin, inhabitant - sukkaaan, inhabitants
        > > >
        > > > funduq, hotel - fanaadiq, hotels
        > > >
        > > > walad, young man - awlaad, young men
        > > > shay', thing - ashyaa', things
        > > > fa3al, verb - af3aal, verbs
        > >
        > > Okay, what you're describing above as "broken plurals", I've
        > > always understood to be "masculine plurals". That is, all the
        > > feminine nouns that end in taa marbuta get their regular plural
        > > in /-aat/, but all the masculine nouns get some funky plural
        > > (except for a few human nouns which get /-uun/). I'd always
        > > assumed "broken plural" meant certain highly irregular masculine
        > > plurals...
        > >
        > > Now I've seen the CuCuC plural form before (in fact, there's
        > > another one I remember: jaTiT "corpse" > juTuT "corpses").
        > > What I was hoping to be able to see is something like this:
        > >
        > > kitaab "book" > kutub "books"
        > > mimaam "example 1" > mumum "example 1 plural"
        > > ninaan "example 2" > nunun "example 2 plural"
        > > Pattern: fi3aal > fu3ul
        > >
        > > Then you could say that this is a particular irregular pattern,
        > > find all the nouns that fit it, and (perhaps) come up with a
        > > generalization about which nouns typically fall into that
        > > pattern (even if it's totally random, semantically).
        > >
        > > > I hope that helps at all! I do love Arabic grammar.
        > >
        > > It certainly does! Thanks!
        > >
        > > -David
        > > *******************************************************************
        > > "sunly eleSkarez ygralleryf ydZZixelje je ox2mejze."
        > > "No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn."
        > >
        > > -Jim Morrison
        > >
        > > http://dedalvs.com/
        > >
        > > LCS Member Since 2007
        > > http://conlang.org/
        > >
        >
      • David Peterson
        For those interested, this paper is freely available on the internet here: http://works.bepress.com/john_j_mccarthy/16/ ... -David
        Message 3 of 9 , Dec 3, 2009
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          For those interested, this paper is freely available on the internet here:

          http://works.bepress.com/john_j_mccarthy/16/

          On Dec 2, 2009, at 1◊58 PM, Dirk Elzinga wrote:

          > You should look at:
          >
          > McCarthy, John and Alan Prince. 1990. Foot and Word in Prosodic Morphology:
          > The Arabic Broken Plural. Natural Language and Linguistic Theory 8: 209-283.
          >
          > They cite
          >
          > Wright, W. 1971 (reprint). A Grammar of the Arabic Language. Cambridge
          > University Press.
          >
          > as the source of their data. They also reproduce Wright's broken plural
          > taxonomy, but reorganize it for their own purposes.
          >
          > The whole paper is worth reading, even if you don't agree with their
          > approach.
          >
          > On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 1:46 AM, David Peterson <dedalvs@...> wrote:
          >
          >> On Dec 1, 2009, at 5◊43 PM, Harry Aspinwall wrote:
          >>
          >>> Here are al-awzaan of verbs as I understand them (in past tense third
          >>> singular masculine form, as in the grammars):
          >>>
          >>> 1. fa3ala/fa3ula/fa3ila - basic form
          >>> 2. fa33ala - causative or intensive
          >>> 3. faa3ala - associative, doing something with another person
          >>> 4. 'af3ala - causative or intensive (often with an animate or
          >>> conceptual object, I think)
          >>> 5. tafa33ala - mostly reflexive of 2 or intensive of 1
          >>> 6. tafaa3ala - reciprocal
          >>> 7. infa3ala - reflexive or passive of 1 (sort of middle voice)
          >>> 8. ifta3ala - many meanings, including reflexive and reflexive-beneficial
          >>> 9. if3alla - defective verbs (rare - generally referring to a colour)
          >>> 10. istaf3ala - seeking or demanding something, or considering
          >>> something to be a certain way
          >>
          >> Ah HA! This is half of it! My Al-Kitaab book has these 10 forms,
          >> and has names for them, but it's the *description* that you've
          >> provided that was missing. THANK YOU! (And thanks for the
          >> example below, too, which I'm snipping.)
          >>
          >>> I had a
          >>> chart which showed all al-awzaan forms for all forms of the verb; If
          >>> it turns up I'll let you know.
          >>
          >> Especially if you can scan it...
          >>
          >>> Here are some awzaan off the top of my
          >>> head -
          >>>
          >>> A few "broken plurals" (where the stem changes into different awzaan,
          >>> rather than a regular suffix), "jumu3 at-taksiir":
          >>>
          >>> mediina, city - mudun, cities
          >>> kitaab, book - kutub, books
          >>> saHifa, newspaper - suHuf, newpapers
          >>>
          >>> rajul, man - rijaal, men
          >>> saakin, inhabitant - sukkaaan, inhabitants
          >>>
          >>> funduq, hotel - fanaadiq, hotels
          >>>
          >>> walad, young man - awlaad, young men
          >>> shay', thing - ashyaa', things
          >>> fa3al, verb - af3aal, verbs
          >>
          >> Okay, what you're describing above as "broken plurals", I've
          >> always understood to be "masculine plurals". That is, all the
          >> feminine nouns that end in taa marbuta get their regular plural
          >> in /-aat/, but all the masculine nouns get some funky plural
          >> (except for a few human nouns which get /-uun/). I'd always
          >> assumed "broken plural" meant certain highly irregular masculine
          >> plurals...
          >>
          >> Now I've seen the CuCuC plural form before (in fact, there's
          >> another one I remember: jaTiT "corpse" > juTuT "corpses").
          >> What I was hoping to be able to see is something like this:
          >>
          >> kitaab "book" > kutub "books"
          >> mimaam "example 1" > mumum "example 1 plural"
          >> ninaan "example 2" > nunun "example 2 plural"
          >> Pattern: fi3aal > fu3ul
          >>
          >> Then you could say that this is a particular irregular pattern,
          >> find all the nouns that fit it, and (perhaps) come up with a
          >> generalization about which nouns typically fall into that
          >> pattern (even if it's totally random, semantically).
          >>
          >>> I hope that helps at all! I do love Arabic grammar.
          >>
          >> It certainly does! Thanks!
          >>
          >> -David
          >> *******************************************************************
          >> "sunly eleSkarez ygralleryf ydZZixelje je ox2mejze."
          >> "No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn."
          >>
          >> -Jim Morrison
          >>
          >> http://dedalvs.com/
          >>
          >> LCS Member Since 2007
          >> http://conlang.org/
          >>

          -David
          *******************************************************************
          "sunly eleSkarez ygralleryf ydZZixelje je ox2mejze."
          "No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn."

          -Jim Morrison

          http://dedalvs.com/

          LCS Member Since 2007
          http://conlang.org/
        • Philip Newton
          ... I ve understood it as meaning internal plural , i.e. formed by restructuring the word, as opposed to sound or external plurals, which are formed by
          Message 4 of 9 , Dec 3, 2009
          • 0 Attachment
            On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 09:46, David Peterson <dedalvs@...> wrote:
            > Okay, what you're describing above as "broken plurals", I've
            > always understood to be "masculine plurals".  That is, all the
            > feminine nouns that end in taa marbuta get their regular plural
            > in /-aat/, but all the masculine nouns get some funky plural
            > (except for a few human nouns which get /-uun/).  I'd always
            > assumed "broken plural" meant certain highly irregular masculine
            > plurals...

            I've understood it as meaning "internal plural", i.e. formed by
            restructuring the word, as opposed to "sound" or "external" plurals,
            which are formed by adding a suffix.

            (I've also always assumed "sound plural" and "broken plural" to be
            calques of the technical terms used by Arab grammarians.

            > What I was hoping to be able to see is something like this:
            >
            > kitaab "book" > kutub "books"
            > mimaam "example 1" > mumum "example 1 plural"
            > ninaan "example 2" > nunun "example 2 plural"
            > Pattern: fi3aal > fu3ul
            >
            > Then you could say that this is a particular irregular pattern,
            > find all the nouns that fit it, and (perhaps) come up with a
            > generalization about which nouns typically fall into that
            > pattern (even if it's totally random, semantically).

            There might be something similar in the grammar of Maltese that I
            have. If you're interested, I could try to dig it up.

            That wouldn't be MSA, of course, so the vowel quantities etc. would be
            different, but it would be Arabic nevertheless - basically, if you're
            interested in the process rather than specific forms.

            Cheers,
            Philip
            --
            Philip Newton <philip.newton@...>
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