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Re: Nominal Aspect for Location Nouns

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  • Peter Bleackley
    ... Jörg once compared the Khangaþyagon noun system to Dagestanian languages after translating it in a relay - for those of you who don t know, Khangaþyagon
    Message 1 of 22 , Jun 1, 2009
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      staving Sai Emrys:
      >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
      >
      >On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 2:47 AM, Julia Krivoruchko <jgk25@...> wrote:
      > > I liked his ideas.
      > > An interesting place to check what types of locational constructions are
      > > possible/actually used could be Dagestanian
      > > languages or some other systems which actively use numerous local
      > > cases/suffixes.

      Jörg once compared the Khangaþyagon noun system
      to Dagestanian languages after translating it in
      a relay - for those of you who don't know,
      Khangaþyagon nouns can combine segunakar
      (suffixes) in various complex ways to form fine distinctions of meaning, eg

      hirriltar zerrishar magyeissgrigur
      hirr-i-lt- ar zerrish-ar mag- ye- iss- gri- gu- r
      fly- 2-imp-pl bird- pl tree-voc-near-above-via-pl
      May birds fly just over the tops of you trees.

      (Rather arbitrary example made up to show how
      many segunakar you can get on one noun)

      Pete
    • Eugene Oh
      Is there a specific order to which to keep? E.g. Instinctively I would ve ordered the segunakar in this way: mag-ye-gri-iss-r-gu tree-voc-above-near-pl-via
      Message 2 of 22 , Jun 1, 2009
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        Is there a specific order to which to keep? E.g. Instinctively I would've
        ordered the segunakar in this way:
        mag-ye-gri-iss-r-gu
        tree-voc-above-near-pl-via

        Which admittedly gives an unpronounceable (for Khangathyagon speakers
        anyway, presumably) cluster near the end and a sequence of two identical
        vowels further front.

        Eugene

        2009/6/1 Peter Bleackley <Peter.Bleackley@...>

        >
        > Jörg once compared the Khangaþyagon noun system to Dagestanian languages
        > after translating it in a relay - for those of you who don't know,
        > Khangaþyagon nouns can combine segunakar (suffixes) in various complex ways
        > to form fine distinctions of meaning, eg
        >
        > hirriltar zerrishar magyeissgrigur
        > hirr-i-lt- ar zerrish-ar mag- ye- iss- gri- gu- r
        > fly- 2-imp-pl bird- pl tree-voc-near-above-via-pl
        > May birds fly just over the tops of you trees.
        >
        > (Rather arbitrary example made up to show how many segunakar you can get on
        > one noun)
        >
        > Pete
        >
      • Peter Bleackley
        ... The canonical order for segunakar is deixis-proximity-position-motion-number for local segunakar, and deixis-abstract-number for abstract segunakar. If I
        Message 3 of 22 , Jun 1, 2009
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          staving Elding Raigmore:

          >Is there a specific order to which to keep? E.g. Instinctively I would've
          >ordered the segunakar in this way:
          >mag-ye-gri-iss-r-gu
          >tree-voc-above-near-pl-via
          >
          >Which admittedly gives an unpronounceable (for Khangathyagon speakers
          >anyway, presumably) cluster near the end and a sequence of two identical
          >vowels further front.

          The canonical order for segunakar is
          deixis-proximity-position-motion-number for local segunakar, and
          deixis-abstract-number for abstract segunakar.
          If I were to change the order, I'd probably put
          number first. I'd also do it in a descendent
          rather than in Khangaþyagon itself.
          The plural segunak -r has the allomorph -ar when
          following consonants, as seen in hirreltar and
          zerrishar in the original example.

          Pete
        • Jörg Rhiemeier
          Hallo! ... Rock n roll! I don t know if any Daghestanian language goes *that* far, but at least, they have such combinations as NOUN-AT-TO, NOUN-IN-FROM,
          Message 4 of 22 , Jun 1, 2009
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            Hallo!

            On Mon, 1 Jun 2009 10:06:10 +0100, Peter Bleackley wrote:

            > Jörg once compared the Khangaþyagon noun system
            > to Dagestanian languages after translating it in
            > a relay - for those of you who don't know,
            > Khangaþyagon nouns can combine segunakar
            > (suffixes) in various complex ways to form fine distinctions of meaning, eg
            >
            > hirriltar zerrishar magyeissgrigur
            > hirr-i-lt- ar zerrish-ar mag- ye- iss- gri- gu- r
            > fly- 2-imp-pl bird- pl tree-voc-near-above-via-pl
            > May birds fly just over the tops of you trees.
            >
            > (Rather arbitrary example made up to show how
            > many segunakar you can get on one noun)

            Rock'n'roll! I don't know if any Daghestanian language goes
            *that* far, but at least, they have such combinations as
            NOUN-AT-TO, NOUN-IN-FROM, NOUN-ON-TO, etc., depending on the
            language. Here is the inventory of Tsez:

            http://www.joerg-rhiemeier.de/Conlang/caucasian.html#fig12

            I am planning to do that kind of thing in some Albic languages,
            too.

            ... brought to you by the Weeping Elf
          • Eldin Raigmore
            ... ... I want to read the whole book. I ve requested an ILL for a copy to
            Message 5 of 22 , Jun 6, 2009
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              On Sun, 31 May 2009 00:04:25 -0700, Sai Emrys <saizai@...> wrote:
              >One instance, a paper written by my sister Julia Krivoruchko (a
              >linguist specializing primarily in ancient Judeo-Greek):

              <http://www.benjamins.com/cgi-bin/t_articles.cgi?bookid=TSL%
              2074&artid=313115179>
              > ...[snip]...
              >I recommend reading the paper; I for one found it (dryly) hilarious. I
              >can get you a PDF if you don't have access to a copy; email me (or
              >her) directly if you want one.

              I want to read the whole book. I've requested an ILL for a copy to borrow.

              On Sun, 31 May 2009 03:44:15 -0700, Sai Emrys <saizai@...> wrote:
              >On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 2:47 AM, Julia Krivoruchko <jgk25@...>
              wrote:
              >> I liked his ideas.

              That was very pleasing to read that she said that; I thank her for thinking
              that and I thank you for letting me know.

              >> An interesting place to check what types of locational constructions are
              >> possible/actually used could be Dagestanian
              >> languages or some other systems which actively use numerous local
              >> cases/suffixes.

              I have also appreciated everyone else's posts to this thread. The fact that
              Sai's were the only ones I actually posted a response to doesn't mean his
              were the only ones I found worth re-reading. Thanks, all.
            • R. Dan Henry
              On Sun, 31 May 2009 09:54:51 -0400, Larry Sulky ... I think that one reason for the use of at in the name of university locations may
              Message 6 of 22 , Jun 10, 2009
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                On Sun, 31 May 2009 09:54:51 -0400, Larry Sulky <larrysulky@...>
                wrote:

                >I attended the University of California at Santa Cruz. That is its full
                >name. If I someone asked me if I attended the University of Arizona, and if
                >not, what school did I attend and where, I might answer "the University of
                >California, in Santa Cruz".

                I think that one reason for the use of "at" in the name of university
                locations may be that they can include university buildings or grounds
                that are not actually in the city. Thus it is formally "at" the city,
                while it may not be physically "in" the city, at least not completely.
                --
                R. Dan Henry
                danhenry@...
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