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Re: sign language

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  • Campbell Nilsen
    Call me a bit odd, but it seems to me that sign language might be a good candidate for Proto-World. If you come up with a language, your friends are going to
    Message 1 of 11 , May 1 6:15 AM
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      Call me a bit odd, but it seems to me that sign language might be a good candidate for Proto-World. If you come up with a language, your friends are going to have an easier time learning stylized gestures than arbitrary combinations of phonemes.

       
      "Define 'cynical'."-M. Mudd
       
       



      ----- Original Message ----
      From: Tristan McLeay <conlang@...>
      To: CONLANG@...
      Sent: Thursday, May 1, 2008 1:42:45 AM
      Subject: Re: sign language

      Sai Emrys wrote:

      > Though it's worth noting that the most famous - Martha's Vinyard - had
      > IIRC common examples of *hearing* people communicating with each other
      > in ASL, not just it being used where hearing status required it.

      I'm probably being needlessly pedantic, but Martha's Vinyard had its own
      sign language (now extinct), not ASL; its was one of a number of
      contributers to ASL, though.

      --
      Tristan.
    • Adam Walker
      ... MVSL was NOT ASL. It was a likely source of some of the features of ASL that differ from LSF, but MVSL was a different language, though I ve found little
      Message 2 of 11 , May 1 6:49 AM
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        --- Sai Emrys <sai@...> wrote:
        > Though it's worth noting that the most famous -
        > Martha's Vinyard - had
        > IIRC common examples of *hearing* people
        > communicating with each other
        > in ASL, not just it being used where hearing status
        > required it.

        MVSL was NOT ASL. It was a likely source of some of
        the features of ASL that differ from LSF, but MVSL was
        a different language, though I've found little
        documentation of what the language was like I have
        found the speculation that it was a decendant of a
        presumptive Old Kentish Sign Language due to Kent
        being the homeland of the first Deaf on MV and
        documentary evidence of a high rate of Deafness in
        certain parts of Kent.

        Adam

        Ed ñavisud in junu suñu pera nun regrediri ad ul Erodu, regrediruns ad il sustrus provinchi peu'l via aurra.

        Machu 2:12
      • Lars Finsen
        ... You re not odd. This has been proposed before. Before we started using signals that needed learning instead of intuitive signals that are understandable to
        Message 3 of 11 , May 1 7:06 AM
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          Den 1. mai. 2008 kl. 15.15 skreiv Campbell Nilsen:
          > Call me a bit odd, but it seems to me that sign language might be a
          > good candidate for Proto-World. If you come up with a language,
          > your friends are going to have an easier time learning stylized
          > gestures than arbitrary combinations of phonemes.

          You're not odd. This has been proposed before. Before we started
          using signals that needed learning instead of intuitive signals that
          are understandable to everybody - and the first steps in this
          direction were probably taken millions of years ago - our
          communication was a mixture of different signals, but mainly calls,
          facial expressions and gestures. Inventing new gestures in addition
          to the intuitive ones isn't a bigger leap than inventing new calls in
          addition to the intuitive ones, I think, and possibly smaller. When
          we started walking on our hind legs, our hands were free to use for
          many things, like tools etc., and why not gestures?

          LEF
        • Abrigon Gusiq
          Myself, I have been able to I suspect to understand people speaking Russian, I do have some minor exposure to it, but just going on Gestures Body Position Tone
          Message 4 of 11 , May 1 8:25 AM
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            Myself, I have been able to I suspect to understand people
            speaking Russian, I do have some minor exposure to it, but just
            going on

            Gestures
            Body Position
            Tone of Voice
            and I suspect more (humans do smell pheromones, we just ignore
            them or do not realize it, or worse we deny they exist as well,
            pheromones/hormones and other smells).

            And get an idea of what the conversation is about, based on
            sometimes words I think I know..

            Mike

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Lars Finsen" <lars.finsen@...>
            To: <CONLANG@...>
            Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 6:06 AM
            Subject: Re: sign language


            Den 1. mai. 2008 kl. 15.15 skreiv Campbell Nilsen:
            > Call me a bit odd, but it seems to me that sign language might
            be a
            > good candidate for Proto-World. If you come up with a
            language,
            > your friends are going to have an easier time learning
            stylized
            > gestures than arbitrary combinations of phonemes.

            You're not odd. This has been proposed before. Before we started
            using signals that needed learning instead of intuitive signals
            that
            are understandable to everybody - and the first steps in this
            direction were probably taken millions of years ago - our
            communication was a mixture of different signals, but mainly
            calls,
            facial expressions and gestures. Inventing new gestures in
            addition
            to the intuitive ones isn't a bigger leap than inventing new
            calls in
            addition to the intuitive ones, I think, and possibly smaller.
            When
            we started walking on our hind legs, our hands were free to use
            for
            many things, like tools etc., and why not gestures?

            LEF
          • Sai Emrys
            ... Yikes! Figures y all would catch that slip... - Sai
            Message 5 of 11 , May 1 1:59 PM
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              On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 6:49 AM, Adam Walker <carrajena@...> wrote:
              > MVSL was NOT ASL.

              Yikes! Figures y'all would catch that slip...

              - Sai
            • li_sasxsek@NUTTER.NET
              ... I have plans to make a gestured version of Sasxsek to complement the spoken and written forms. Currently there is only a manual alphabet, but I expect to
              Message 6 of 11 , May 1 3:08 PM
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                > [mailto:CONLANG@...] On Behalf Of Campbell Nilsen

                > 1. Has anybody made a con-sign language?
                > 2. Has a community ever been found of normal, non-deaf human
                > people who naturally use signing rather than phonetics as the
                > basis of their language?


                I have plans to make a gestured version of Sasxsek to complement the
                spoken and written forms. Currently there is only a manual
                alphabet, but I expect to add some gestured morphemes eventually to
                parallel roots in the spoken language.
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