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The World Atlas of Language Structures

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  • Paul Bennett
    The World Atlas of Language Structures is now available for free online, in a nifty Google Maps powered form. http://www.wals.info/ I cannot succinctly explain
    Message 1 of 18 , Apr 25, 2008
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      The World Atlas of Language Structures is now available for free online,
      in a nifty Google Maps powered form.

      http://www.wals.info/

      I cannot succinctly explain it, except to place it at least on the same
      level as STARLING, IEIOL, indo-european.nl, and the Rosetta Project on my
      list of awesome linguistics resources.



      Paul




      --
      Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
    • Eric Christopherson
      ... Indeed it is cool! But it says that Spanish shows voicing contrast in fricatives and not plosives :/
      Message 2 of 18 , Apr 25, 2008
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        On Apr 25, 2008, at 9:52 PM, Paul Bennett wrote:

        > The World Atlas of Language Structures is now available for free
        > online, in a nifty Google Maps powered form.
        >
        > http://www.wals.info/
        >
        > I cannot succinctly explain it, except to place it at least on the
        > same level as STARLING, IEIOL, indo-european.nl, and the Rosetta
        > Project on my list of awesome linguistics resources.

        Indeed it is cool! But it says that Spanish shows voicing contrast in
        fricatives and not plosives :/
      • Eric Christopherson
        ... I don t know whether to buy this or not. There are cases where they occur as voiced stops (unlike in e.g. Greek).
        Message 3 of 18 , Apr 25, 2008
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          On Apr 25, 2008, at 10:20 PM, Eric Christopherson wrote:

          > On Apr 25, 2008, at 9:52 PM, Paul Bennett wrote:
          >
          >> The World Atlas of Language Structures is now available for free
          >> online, in a nifty Google Maps powered form.
          >>
          >> http://www.wals.info/
          >>
          >> I cannot succinctly explain it, except to place it at least on the
          >> same level as STARLING, IEIOL, indo-european.nl, and the Rosetta
          >> Project on my list of awesome linguistics resources.
          >
          > Indeed it is cool! But it says that Spanish shows voicing contrast
          > in fricatives and not plosives :/

          I hadn't actually *read* what it has to say about Spanish, which is:

          > Note that Spanish is not treated as having a voicing contrast in
          > plosives since the sounds written with the letters b, d, g are not
          > pronounced as plosives in most of their occurrences in speech but
          > as voiced fricatives or approximants. Spanish therefore belongs to
          > the final group of languages in this classification, those with a
          > voicing contrast in fricatives but not in plosives.
          >

          I don't know whether to buy this or not. There are cases where they
          occur as voiced stops (unlike in e.g. Greek).
        • Mark J. Reed
          Which is *almost* exactly backwards... Lessee. p/b, t/d, k/g; f but no v, s but no z, tS but no dZ in most dialects: /Z/ but no /S/ in some. Some dialects do
          Message 4 of 18 , Apr 25, 2008
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            Which is *almost* exactly backwards... Lessee. p/b, t/d, k/g; f but no
            v, s but no z, tS but no dZ in most dialects: /Z/ but no /S/ in some.
            Some dialects do have T vs D (the latter as an allophone of /d/), and
            most have x vs G (/g/)



            On 4/25/08, Eric Christopherson <rakko@...> wrote:
            > On Apr 25, 2008, at 9:52 PM, Paul Bennett wrote:
            >
            > > The World Atlas of Language Structures is now available for free
            > > online, in a nifty Google Maps powered form.
            > >
            > > http://www.wals.info/
            > >
            > > I cannot succinctly explain it, except to place it at least on the
            > > same level as STARLING, IEIOL, indo-european.nl, and the Rosetta
            > > Project on my list of awesome linguistics resources.
            >
            > Indeed it is cool! But it says that Spanish shows voicing contrast in
            > fricatives and not plosives :/
            >

            --
            Sent from Gmail for mobile | mobile.google.com

            Mark J. Reed <markjreed@...>
          • Mark J. Reed
            Agreed. The stop allophones of the voiced stop phonemes are rare, but when they occur they are distinguished from their voiceless counterparts. ... -- Sent
            Message 5 of 18 , Apr 25, 2008
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              Agreed. The stop allophones of the voiced stop phonemes are rare, but
              when they occur they are distinguished from their voiceless
              counterparts.



              On 4/25/08, Eric Christopherson <rakko@...> wrote:
              > On Apr 25, 2008, at 10:20 PM, Eric Christopherson wrote:
              >
              > > On Apr 25, 2008, at 9:52 PM, Paul Bennett wrote:
              > >
              > >> The World Atlas of Language Structures is now available for free
              > >> online, in a nifty Google Maps powered form.
              > >>
              > >> http://www.wals.info/
              > >>
              > >> I cannot succinctly explain it, except to place it at least on the
              > >> same level as STARLING, IEIOL, indo-european.nl, and the Rosetta
              > >> Project on my list of awesome linguistics resources.
              > >
              > > Indeed it is cool! But it says that Spanish shows voicing contrast
              > > in fricatives and not plosives :/
              >
              > I hadn't actually *read* what it has to say about Spanish, which is:
              >
              > > Note that Spanish is not treated as having a voicing contrast in
              > > plosives since the sounds written with the letters b, d, g are not
              > > pronounced as plosives in most of their occurrences in speech but
              > > as voiced fricatives or approximants. Spanish therefore belongs to
              > > the final group of languages in this classification, those with a
              > > voicing contrast in fricatives but not in plosives.
              > >
              >
              > I don't know whether to buy this or not. There are cases where they
              > occur as voiced stops (unlike in e.g. Greek).
              >

              --
              Sent from Gmail for mobile | mobile.google.com

              Mark J. Reed <markjreed@...>
            • David J. Peterson
              Paul:
              Message 6 of 18 , Apr 25, 2008
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                Paul:
                <<
                The World Atlas of Language Structures is now available for free
                online, in a nifty Google Maps powered form.

                http://www.wals.info/

                I cannot succinctly explain it, except to place it at least on the
                same level as STARLING, IEIOL, indo-european.nl, and the Rosetta
                Project on my list of awesome linguistics resources.
                >>

                I was introduced to this by one of the authors, who was a
                professor of mine while I was at UCSD, Masha Polinsky:

                http://wals.info/author

                It should be noted that the work collected is dependent entirely
                on the level of research of the contributors--and one of the
                things that I remember about Masha's contributions is that she
                has a...unique idea about what constitutes an antipassive
                construction (apparently English has them).

                -David
                *******************************************************************
                "sunly eleSkarez ygralleryf ydZZixelje je ox2mejze."
                "No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn."

                -Jim Morrison

                http://dedalvs.free.fr/
              • Eugene Oh
                I d say the voiced stops have changed to such an extent that they have now become approximants/fricatives and the plosive forms are now the allophones.
                Message 7 of 18 , Apr 25, 2008
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                  I'd say the voiced stops have changed to such an extent that they have now
                  become approximants/fricatives and the plosive forms are now the allophones.
                  Particularly in Castilian.
                  Correct me if I'm wrong, since I'm no Spanish speaker, but I thought
                  nowadays the stops occur only in clusters? I think what the site meant would
                  be that the voicing contrast in stops has evolved into a litany of other
                  sounds and that the "best", or easiest, or whatever, way to classify them
                  would be to throw them into a "fricative" category. Perhaps.

                  Eugene

                  On Sat, Apr 26, 2008 at 11:40 AM, Mark J. Reed <markjreed@...> wrote:

                  > Which is *almost* exactly backwards... Lessee. p/b, t/d, k/g; f but no
                  > v, s but no z, tS but no dZ in most dialects: /Z/ but no /S/ in some.
                  > Some dialects do have T vs D (the latter as an allophone of /d/), and
                  > most have x vs G (/g/)
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > On 4/25/08, Eric Christopherson <rakko@...> wrote:
                  > > On Apr 25, 2008, at 9:52 PM, Paul Bennett wrote:
                  > >
                  > > > The World Atlas of Language Structures is now available for free
                  > > > online, in a nifty Google Maps powered form.
                  > > >
                  > > > http://www.wals.info/
                  > > >
                  > > > I cannot succinctly explain it, except to place it at least on the
                  > > > same level as STARLING, IEIOL, indo-european.nl, and the Rosetta
                  > > > Project on my list of awesome linguistics resources.
                  > >
                  > > Indeed it is cool! But it says that Spanish shows voicing contrast in
                  > > fricatives and not plosives :/
                  > >
                  >
                  > --
                  > Sent from Gmail for mobile | mobile.google.com
                  >
                  > Mark J. Reed <markjreed@...>
                  >
                • MorphemeAddict@WMCONNECT.COM
                  In a message dated 4/25/2008 21:55:57 PM Central Daylight Time, ... I like it! stevo
                  Message 8 of 18 , Apr 26, 2008
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                    In a message dated 4/25/2008 21:55:57 PM Central Daylight Time,
                    paul.w.bennett@... writes:


                    > The World Atlas of Language Structures is now available for free online,
                    > in a nifty Google Maps powered form.
                    >
                    > http://www.wals.info/
                    >
                    > I cannot succinctly explain it, except to place it at least on the same
                    > level as STARLING, IEIOL, indo-european.nl, and the Rosetta Project on my
                    > list of awesome linguistics resources.
                    >

                    I like it!

                    stevo </HTML>
                  • MorphemeAddict@WMCONNECT.COM
                    In a message dated 4/26/2008 04:37:26 AM Central Daylight Time, ... How would you map the conlangs? stevo
                    Message 9 of 18 , Apr 26, 2008
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                      In a message dated 4/26/2008 04:37:26 AM Central Daylight Time,
                      taliesin-conlang@... writes:


                      > That said, it strikes me that describing how the various features work
                      > for our own conlangs might be fun, especially for mostly a priori
                      > creatures like mine... This makes it possible/easier to discover which
                      > natural language a conlang resembles most, complete with a map-reference
                      > in case we'd want to borrow from the geographical neighbors.
                      >
                      > Again, *drool*
                      >
                      >
                      > t., adding "conlang wals" to list of impossible projects
                      >

                      How would you map the conlangs?

                      stevo </HTML>
                    • li_sasxsek@NUTTER.NET
                      ... I m not a native either but stops occur in clusters (what few there are) and at the beginning of a word so dedo would be [deDo].
                      Message 10 of 18 , Apr 26, 2008
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                        > [mailto:CONLANG@...] On Behalf Of Eugene Oh

                        > I'd say the voiced stops have changed to such an extent that
                        > they have now
                        > become approximants/fricatives and the plosive forms are now
                        > the allophones.
                        > Particularly in Castilian.
                        > Correct me if I'm wrong, since I'm no Spanish speaker, but I thought
                        > nowadays the stops occur only in clusters? I think what the
                        > site meant would
                        > be that the voicing contrast in stops has evolved into a
                        > litany of other
                        > sounds and that the "best", or easiest, or whatever, way to
                        > classify them
                        > would be to throw them into a "fricative" category. Perhaps.

                        I'm not a native either but stops occur in clusters (what few there are) and at the beginning of a word so "dedo" would be [deDo].
                      • ROGER MILLS
                        ... That s correct. It s certainly possible to analyze Span. vd.stops as allophones of phonemic vd.frics., but it s (a) typologically odd and (b) historically
                        Message 11 of 18 , Apr 26, 2008
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                          Li-sasxek wrote:
                          > > [mailto:CONLANG@...] On Behalf Of Eugene Oh
                          >
                          > > I'd say the voiced stops have changed to such an extent that
                          > > they have now
                          > > become approximants/fricatives and the plosive forms are now
                          > > the allophones.
                          > > Particularly in Castilian.
                          > > Correct me if I'm wrong, since I'm no Spanish speaker, but I thought
                          > > nowadays the stops occur only in clusters? I think what the
                          > > site meant would
                          > > be that the voicing contrast in stops has evolved into a
                          > > litany of other
                          > > sounds and that the "best", or easiest, or whatever, way to
                          > > classify them
                          > > would be to throw them into a "fricative" category. Perhaps.
                          >
                          >I'm not a native either but stops occur in clusters (what few there are)
                          >and at the beginning of a word so "dedo" would be [deDo].

                          That's correct.

                          It's certainly possible to analyze Span. vd.stops as allophones of phonemic
                          vd.frics., but it's (a) typologically odd and (b) historically incorrect,
                          and IMNSHO (c) obtuse.........
                        • Jörg Rhiemeier
                          Hallo! ... Rock n roll! This is indeed a wonderful resource. ... brought to you by the Weeping Elf
                          Message 12 of 18 , Apr 27, 2008
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                            Hallo!

                            On Fri, 25 Apr 2008 22:52:13 -0400, Paul Bennett wrote:

                            > The World Atlas of Language Structures is now available for free online,
                            > in a nifty Google Maps powered form.
                            >
                            > http://www.wals.info/
                            >
                            > I cannot succinctly explain it, except to place it at least on the same
                            > level as STARLING, IEIOL, indo-european.nl, and the Rosetta Project on my
                            > list of awesome linguistics resources.

                            Rock'n'roll! This is indeed a wonderful resource.

                            ... brought to you by the Weeping Elf
                          • John Vertical
                            ... Emphatically seconded! This would make greit reference material for LCKs & the like. ...Altho alike to the Spanish issue, I m also spotting other little
                            Message 13 of 18 , Apr 28, 2008
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                              >* Paul Bennett said on 2008-04-26 04:52:13 +0200
                              >> The World Atlas of Language Structures is now available for free online,
                              >> in a nifty Google Maps powered form.
                              >>
                              >> http://www.wals.info/
                              >
                              >Having explored a little, all I can say is *drool*.

                              Emphatically seconded! This would make greit reference material for LCKs &
                              the like.

                              ...Altho alike to the Spanish issue, I'm also spotting other little
                              weirdities, like including /T D/ in Dahalo but *not* in Arabic... OK, they
                              use Egyptian Arabic so it's technically correct, but seems a bit misleading.


                              >t., adding "conlang wals" to list of impossible projects

                              Preliminary phoneme inventory statistics are alreddy being done at the ZBB.

                              John Vertical
                            • Christopher Bates
                              ... They are? Where abouts?
                              Message 14 of 18 , Apr 28, 2008
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                                >> t., adding "conlang wals" to list of impossible projects
                                >>
                                >
                                > Preliminary phoneme inventory statistics are alreddy being done at the ZBB.
                                >
                                > John Vertical
                                >
                                >


                                They are? Where abouts?
                              • Mr Veoler
                                ... http://www.spinnoff.com/zbb/viewtopic.php?t=25708 -- Veoler
                                Message 15 of 18 , Apr 28, 2008
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                                  Christopher Bates wrote:
                                  > They are? Where abouts?
                                  >

                                  http://www.spinnoff.com/zbb/viewtopic.php?t=25708

                                  --
                                  Veoler
                                • J. 'Mach' Wust
                                  Paul Bennett said on 2008-04-26 04:52:13 +0200 ... Thanks a lot for that reference! ... I understand that Spanish voiced obstruents may be considered
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Apr 29, 2008
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                                    Paul Bennett said on 2008-04-26 04:52:13 +0200
                                    > http://www.wals.info/

                                    Thanks a lot for that reference!

                                    On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 06:39:54 -0400, John Vertical wrote:
                                    >...Altho alike to the Spanish issue, I'm also spotting other little
                                    >weirdities, like including /T D/ in Dahalo but *not* in Arabic... OK, they
                                    >use Egyptian Arabic so it's technically correct, but seems a bit misleading.

                                    I understand that Spanish voiced obstruents may be considered fricatives
                                    since that's what their most common allophone is. I rather wonder what
                                    analysis makes Finnish have a "Voicing contrast in both plosives and
                                    fricatives", where "voicing contrast" means a difference that "is in the
                                    accompanying action of the larynx". I'll see whether I can find some of the
                                    references cited for that feature.

                                    Of cource, generalizations like these are inevitable in such a kind of
                                    publication, but after all, they don't diminish the benefit. Quite the
                                    contrary, the main benefit lies precisely in the generalizations. But also
                                    in the detailed discussions of the many features.

                                    ---
                                    grüess
                                    mach
                                  • John Vertical
                                    ... The kind of an analysis where one relies on older literature that doesn t distinguish vricativs from approximants, or just plain assumes that orthographic
                                    Message 17 of 18 , Apr 29, 2008
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                                      >On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 06:39:54 -0400, John Vertical wrote:
                                      >>...Altho alike to the Spanish issue, I'm also spotting other little
                                      >>weirdities, like including /T D/ in Dahalo but *not* in Arabic... OK, they
                                      >>use Egyptian Arabic so it's technically correct, but seems a bit misleading.
                                      >
                                      >I understand that Spanish voiced obstruents may be considered fricatives
                                      >since that's what their most common allophone is. I rather wonder what
                                      >analysis makes Finnish have a "Voicing contrast in both plosives and
                                      >fricatives", where "voicing contrast" means a difference that "is in the
                                      >accompanying action of the larynx".

                                      >grüess
                                      >mach

                                      The kind of an analysis where one relies on older literature that doesn't
                                      distinguish vricativs from approximants, or just plain assumes that
                                      orthographic <v> is one of the former, I bet.

                                      …Actually, I just found something that's off the outrageousness charts and
                                      firmly into ridiculosity. Abkhaz, according to them, apparently has a
                                      "Small" consonant inventory. :)
                                      ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abkhaz_phonology )

                                      I sent them a comment, let's see if that yields anything.

                                      John Vertical
                                    • Adam Walker
                                      ... Actually there are several errors I noticed in the info about Minnan (which appears under different names on different pages). Adam Ed ñavisud in junu
                                      Message 18 of 18 , Apr 29, 2008
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                                        --- John Vertical <johnvertical@...> wrote:
                                        > …Actually, I just found something that's off the
                                        > outrageousness charts and
                                        > firmly into ridiculosity. Abkhaz, according to them,
                                        > apparently has a
                                        > "Small" consonant inventory. :)
                                        > ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abkhaz_phonology )
                                        >
                                        > I sent them a comment, let's see if that yields
                                        > anything.
                                        >
                                        > John Vertical
                                        >

                                        Actually there are several errors I noticed in the
                                        info about Minnan (which appears under different names
                                        on different pages).

                                        Adam

                                        Ed ñavisud in junu suñu pera nun regrediri ad ul Erodu, regrediruns ad il sustrus provinchi peu'l via aurra.

                                        Machu 2:12
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