Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: THEORY: Uses of reduplication

Expand Messages
  • Eric Christopherson
    ... Yeah. I guess what I m getting at is where the dividing line is between repetition and reduplication.
    Message 1 of 15 , Mar 2, 2008
    • 0 Attachment
      On Mar 2, 2008, at 1:59 PM, David J. Peterson wrote:

      > Stevo:
      > <<
      > Is that even reduplication? It seems to me to be mere repetition.
      > >>
      >
      > I agree. We see the same thing in English with longer phrases:
      >
      > "And she would come here all the time, all the time, all the time."

      Yeah. I guess what I'm getting at is where the dividing line is
      between repetition and reduplication.
    • ROGER MILLS
      ... Just on the basis of Indonesia, the reduplicated form has a different meaning-- with nouns it mainly pluralizes-- anak-anak anak2 children , anjing2
      Message 2 of 15 , Mar 2, 2008
      • 0 Attachment
        Eric Christopherson wrote:
        >>"And she would come here all the time, all the time, all the time."
        >
        >Yeah. I guess what I'm getting at is where the dividing line is between
        >repetition and reduplication.

        Just on the basis of Indonesia, the reduplicated form has a different
        meaning-- with nouns it mainly pluralizes-- anak-anak "anak2" 'children',
        anjing2 'dogs'

        some forms become plural/indefinite: macam 'kind of...': dua macam anjing
        'two kinds of dogs' > macam-macam anjing '(several) different/various kinds
        of dogs'

        Quite a few change the meaning radically (though there's usually still a
        visible relation): mata 'eye', mata2 1. eyes 2. a spy, to spy; idiomatic
        se-mata2 'merely, only...'; kala 'time', ber-kala2 from time to time; then
        there's anak-anakan 'doll'; kuda 'horse' kuda-kudaan 1. 'ride piggy-back; 2.
        a hobby-horse

        I think you can redup. lots of verbs to intensify or diminish the meaning;
        tidur 'sleep' tidur2 'nap'

        Indonesian is also full of redups. with vowel variation ("jingles") like
        kocar-kacir 'in disorder' (neither word exists on its own) I think speakers
        can almost create these on the fly; or cons.variation (rarer I think)
        kosong-losong 'completely empty' (kosong 'empty', no "losong")

        Entire doctoral dissertations have been written on redup. in Indonesian !!

        Engl. has some like this-- mish-mash, hoity-toity, but I can't think of any
        that match the other categories.

        I don't see your earlier "book-book" as a redup; it's more an attribute+head
        noun+noun combo, like housecat, man-cave ;-) or Indian-Indian vs.
        American-Indian.
      • Jeffrey Jones
        On Sun, 2 Mar 2008 14:16:17 -0600, Eric Christopherson ... I m no expert, but it seems to me that (a) if it s partial, as in IndoEuropean languages (e.g. Latin
        Message 3 of 15 , Mar 2, 2008
        • 0 Attachment
          On Sun, 2 Mar 2008 14:16:17 -0600, Eric Christopherson
          <rakko@...> wrote:

          >On Mar 2, 2008, at 1:59 PM, David J. Peterson wrote:
          >
          >> Stevo:
          >> <<
          >> Is that even reduplication? It seems to me to be mere repetition.
          >> >>
          >>
          >> I agree. We see the same thing in English with longer phrases:
          >>
          >> "And she would come here all the time, all the time, all the time."
          >
          >Yeah. I guess what I'm getting at is where the dividing line is
          >between repetition and reduplication.

          I'm no expert, but it seems to me that
          (a) if it's partial, as in IndoEuropean languages (e.g. Latin cecini "I sang"), it's
          reduplication
          (b) if it's full but infixed, it's reduplication (sorry, no example, but I did see this
          recently)
          (c) other cases are more difficult, but I'd say if there's only one stress, it may
          be reduplication and if each part has its own stress, it has to be repetition.

          Jeff
        • MorphemeAddict@WMCONNECT.COM
          In a message dated 3/2/2008 19:08:36 PM Central Standard Time, ... One productive area of reduplication in English is phrases where the first word is copied,
          Message 4 of 15 , Mar 2, 2008
          • 0 Attachment
            In a message dated 3/2/2008 19:08:36 PM Central Standard Time,
            rfmilly@... writes:


            > Entire doctoral dissertations have been written on redup. in Indonesian !!
            >
            > Engl. has some like this-- mish-mash, hoity-toity, but I can't think of any
            > that match the other categories.
            >

            One productive area of reduplication in English is phrases where the first
            word is copied, but the first consonants are changed to /shm/: "theory -
            shmeory". It's a way of sneering at the first word.

            stevo </HTML>
          • caeruleancentaur
            ... I would consider that nothing more than a compound predicate. Now if the sentence were She cried, cried, cried, that s a different matter.
            Message 5 of 15 , Mar 2, 2008
            • 0 Attachment
              >Douglas Koller <laokou@...> wrote:

              >"She cried and cried (and cried)."

              I would consider that nothing more than a compound predicate. Now if
              the sentence were "She cried, cried, cried," that's a different matter.

              "Shm-reduplication" has its own Wikipedia entry.

              Charlie
            • Eric Christopherson
              ... I think it could still be construed as reduplication; reduplication does not necessarily involve exact duplication of the base and *nothing more*. But
              Message 6 of 15 , Mar 2, 2008
              • 0 Attachment
                On Mar 2, 2008, at 9:43 PM, caeruleancentaur wrote:

                >> Douglas Koller <laokou@...> wrote:
                >
                >> "She cried and cried (and cried)."
                >
                > I would consider that nothing more than a compound predicate. Now if
                > the sentence were "She cried, cried, cried," that's a different
                > matter.
                >
                > "Shm-reduplication" has its own Wikipedia entry.
                >
                > Charlie

                I think it could still be construed as reduplication; reduplication
                does not necessarily involve exact duplication of the base and
                *nothing more*. But yeah, I think in my original post I lost sight of
                examples like "cried and cried". In that case, the two instances of
                "cried" are linked by an element of grammar which also functions in
                cases where the two things connected are *not* reduplicant and base.
                (On the other hand, once you've said "She cried", adding "and cried"
                doesn't really seem to add anything new semantically, the way adding
                "and got a tissue" or something like that; it's just restating
                something we've just stated.)
              • Benct Philip Jonsson
                ... Tis called echo-words : AFAIU it they also occur in
                Message 7 of 15 , Mar 3, 2008
                • 0 Attachment
                  On 3.3.2008 Eric Christopherson wrote:
                  > On Mar 2, 2008, at 9:43 PM, caeruleancentaur wrote:
                  >
                  > >> Douglas Koller <laokou@...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > >> "She cried and cried (and cried)."
                  > >
                  > > I would consider that nothing more than a compound predicate. Now
                  > if
                  > > the sentence were "She cried, cried, cried," that's a different
                  > matter.
                  > >
                  > > "Shm-reduplication" has its own Wikipedia entry.
                  > >
                  > > Charlie
                  >
                  > I think it could still be construed as reduplication;

                  'Tis called "echo-words":

                  <http://linguistlist.org/pubs/diss/browse-diss-action.cfm?DissID=3209>

                  <http://tinyurl.com/2r2lul>

                  AFAIU it they also occur in Arabic and languages influenced
                  by that language at removes. That would include the Indian
                  case, I think.



                  /BP 8^)>
                  --
                  Benct Philip Jonsson -- melroch atte melroch dotte se
                  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                  "C'est en vain que nos Josués littéraires crient
                  à la langue de s'arrêter; les langues ni le soleil
                  ne s'arrêtent plus. Le jour où elles se *fixent*,
                  c'est qu'elles meurent." (Victor Hugo)
                • MorphemeAddict@WMCONNECT.COM
                  In a message dated 3/2/2008 22:17:48 PM Central Standard Time, ... I disagree. It indicates that the crying continued beyond the expected length or amount of
                  Message 8 of 15 , Mar 3, 2008
                  • 0 Attachment
                    In a message dated 3/2/2008 22:17:48 PM Central Standard Time,
                    rakko@... writes:


                    > (On the other hand, once you've said "She cried", adding "and cried"
                    > doesn't really seem to add anything new semantically, the way adding
                    > "and got a tissue" or something like that; it's just restating
                    > something we've just stated.)
                    >

                    I disagree. It indicates that the crying continued beyond the expected
                    length or amount of crying. Repeating "and cried" again indicates that the crying
                    went even beyond the limits expected after the first use of "and cried". It
                    does add something new to the sentence.

                    stevo </HTML>
                  Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.