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Re: Strictly OT - conworlding with 92% or thereabouts commonality with curren...

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  • MorphemeAddict@WMCONNECT.COM
    In a message dated 1/4/2008 3:50:28 AM Central Standard Time, ... How are basic physical laws connected with a mathematical counting progression? stevo
    Message 1 of 6 , Jan 4, 2008
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      In a message dated 1/4/2008 3:50:28 AM Central Standard Time,
      wes.parish@... writes:


      > What I'm thinking of is a skewed set of basic physical laws where the basic
      > mathematical progression is not the binary one-two-plusone-plusone-plusone...
      > into infinity, but instead the integer prime sequence having prime importance
      > and the binary sequence being of secondary importance.
      >

      How are basic physical laws connected with a mathematical counting
      progression?

      stevo </HTML>
    • Wesley Parish
      ... Sorry I m late in responding - tech difficulties. ;) As I see it, mathematics is the interface - if we can call it that - of the engine that drives the
      Message 2 of 6 , Jan 6, 2008
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        Quoting MorphemeAddict@...:

        > In a message dated 1/4/2008 3:50:28 AM Central Standard Time,
        > wes.parish@... writes:
        >
        >
        > > What I'm thinking of is a skewed set of basic physical laws where the
        > basic
        > > mathematical progression is not the binary
        > one-two-plusone-plusone-plusone...
        > > into infinity, but instead the integer prime sequence having prime
        > importance
        > > and the binary sequence being of secondary importance.
        > >
        >
        > How are basic physical laws connected with a mathematical counting
        > progression?

        Sorry I'm late in responding - tech difficulties. ;)

        As I see it, mathematics is the "interface" - if we can call it that - of the
        "engine" that drives the universe/s.

        So a mathematics that privileges the prime numbers instead of the base-two,
        would have a much greater range of physical variation/s than a universe with the
        opposite focus. A much more detailed explanation of the idea can be found in
        Morris Kline's "Mathematics for the Nonmathematician", dealing with the concept
        of non-Euclidian geometries.

        At any rate, that's what I'm working on, and my stories seem to involve memories
        of some physics experimenters who spent their time and lives trying to survive
        in threespace, avoiding bifurcation/trifurcation and fractalization - though
        there is an ancient curse on troublemakers, wishing them the worst John, Ivanna
        and Johanna can do them.

        Just my 0.02c worth!

        Wesley Parish
        >
        > stevo </HTML>
        >



        "Sharpened hands are happy hands.
        "Brim the tinfall with mirthful bands"
        - A Deepness in the Sky, Vernor Vinge

        "I me. Shape middled me. I would come out into hot!"
        I from the spicy that day was overcasked mockingly - it's a symbol of the
        other horizon. - emacs : meta x dissociated-press
      • MorphemeAddict@WMCONNECT.COM
        In a message dated 1/6/2008 5:08:19 AM Central Standard Time, ... Mathematics doesn t privilege any particular. Numbers don t have a base, until and unless
        Message 3 of 6 , Jan 6, 2008
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          In a message dated 1/6/2008 5:08:19 AM Central Standard Time,
          wes.parish@... writes:


          > As I see it, mathematics is the "interface" - if we can call it that - of
          > the
          > "engine" that drives the universe/s.
          >
          > So a mathematics that privileges the prime numbers instead of the base-two,
          > would have a much greater range of physical variation/s than a universe with
          > the
          > opposite focus. A much more detailed explanation of the idea can be found in
          > Morris Kline's "Mathematics for the Nonmathematician", dealing with the
          > concept
          > of non-Euclidian geometries.
          >
          > At any rate, that's what I'm working on, and my stories seem to involve
          > memories
          > of some physics experimenters who spent their time and lives trying to
          > survive
          > in threespace, avoiding bifurcation/trifurcation and fractalization - though
          > there is an ancient curse on troublemakers, wishing them the worst John,
          > Ivanna
          > and Johanna can do them.
          >
          Mathematics doesn't 'privilege' any particular. Numbers don't have a base,
          until and unless someone chooses a base to express them in.
          Prime numbers are still just numbers, and they don't have an inherent base
          either. Perhaps the mathematicians (or everyone) in your conworld use primes
          for the basis of math, but I don't see how it can be an inherent feature of the
          math itself.

          stevo
          </HTML>
        • MorphemeAddict@WMCONNECT.COM
          In a message dated 1/6/2008 9:10:12 AM Central Standard Time, ... ... any particular base. stevo
          Message 4 of 6 , Jan 6, 2008
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            In a message dated 1/6/2008 9:10:12 AM Central Standard Time,
            MorphemeAddict@... writes:


            > Mathematics doesn't 'privilege' any particular.

            ... any particular base.

            stevo

            </HTML>
          • Jim Henry
            ... I don t fully understand what he s talking about, but my impression is that he s not using base two in the usual sense. ... mathematical progression is
            Message 5 of 6 , Jan 7, 2008
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              On Jan 6, 2008 8:02 AM, <MorphemeAddict@...> wrote:
              > In a message dated 1/6/2008 5:08:19 AM Central Standard Time,
              > wes.parish@... writes:

              > > So a mathematics that privileges the prime numbers instead of the base-two,
              > > would have a much greater range of physical variation/s than a universe with
              > > the
              > > opposite focus. A much more detailed explanation of the idea can be
              > Mathematics doesn't 'privilege' any particular. Numbers don't have a base,
              > until and unless someone chooses a base to express them in.

              I don't fully understand what he's talking about, but my impression
              is that he's not using "base two" in the usual sense.
              He wrote in his original post:

              >>What I'm thinking of is a skewed set of basic physical laws where the basic
              mathematical progression is not the binary one-two-plusone-plusone-plusone...
              into infinity, but instead the integer prime sequence having prime importance
              and the binary sequence being of secondary importance.
              <<

              I can't figure out what he's talking about exactly, -- do the primes
              exist without being embedded in and defined by
              the sequence of natural numbers, in his world? --
              but he doesn't seem to be using "binary" and "base two"
              in the usual sense to denote a notational method, but rather
              to denote the counting numbers or natural numbers as
              opposed to the primes.

              Wesley, can you explain further?

              --
              Jim Henry
              http://www.pobox.com/~jimhenry
            • Wesley Parish
              ... My concept, idea, whathaveyou, comes from something I realized after taking up mathematics for a degree about ten years ago - that half of the integers
              Message 6 of 6 , Jan 8, 2008
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                Quoting Jim Henry <jimhenry1973@...>:

                > On Jan 6, 2008 8:02 AM, <MorphemeAddict@...> wrote:
                > > In a message dated 1/6/2008 5:08:19 AM Central Standard Time,
                > > wes.parish@... writes:
                >
                > > > So a mathematics that privileges the prime numbers instead of the
                > base-two,
                > > > would have a much greater range of physical variation/s than a
                > universe with
                > > > the
                > > > opposite focus. A much more detailed explanation of the idea can be
                > > Mathematics doesn't 'privilege' any particular. Numbers don't have a
                > base,
                > > until and unless someone chooses a base to express them in.
                >
                > I don't fully understand what he's talking about, but my impression
                > is that he's not using "base two" in the usual sense.
                > He wrote in his original post:
                >
                > >>What I'm thinking of is a skewed set of basic physical laws where the
                > basic
                > mathematical progression is not the binary
                > one-two-plusone-plusone-plusone...
                > into infinity, but instead the integer prime sequence having prime
                > importance
                > and the binary sequence being of secondary importance.
                > <<
                >
                > I can't figure out what he's talking about exactly, -- do the primes
                > exist without being embedded in and defined by
                > the sequence of natural numbers, in his world? --
                > but he doesn't seem to be using "binary" and "base two"
                > in the usual sense to denote a notational method, but rather
                > to denote the counting numbers or natural numbers as
                > opposed to the primes.
                >
                > Wesley, can you explain further?

                My concept, idea, whathaveyou, comes from something I realized after taking up
                mathematics for a degree about ten years ago - that half of the integers were
                divisible by two, the other half were not divisible by any such overarching
                factor. And of that other half, a certain percentage were not divisible by
                anything except themselves and the number one.

                The term "The binary sequence" derives from that, my humble apologies to anyone
                who I confused - it directly relates to that fact, that two divides half the
                integers, and nothing even remotely equivalent divides the other half of the
                integers.

                As far as the primes go, and as far as my conworlding goes, I would link it to
                fractals - in so far as I understand anything about fractals - and say for this
                world, the primes are the linkages for the fractals/chaos to the "Euclidean"
                world of common perception. And the "binary sequence" doesn't play any such
                role in this conworld, which I am happy to say, is just a thought-experiment of
                mine own, with no relation to any "real" world.

                As far as "privileging" any base goes, I was always worried about the use of
                binary in computers as an adolescent, mostly because it didn't seem to take into
                account of the alternate value "maybe" and even some others that I didn't think
                of at the time. But "fuzzy logic" seems to have answered that, with scales of
                values expressed in binary logic.

                Just my 0.02c, FWLIW!

                Wesley Parish
                >
                > --
                > Jim Henry
                > http://www.pobox.com/~jimhenry
                >



                "Sharpened hands are happy hands.
                "Brim the tinfall with mirthful bands"
                - A Deepness in the Sky, Vernor Vinge

                "I me. Shape middled me. I would come out into hot!"
                I from the spicy that day was overcasked mockingly - it's a symbol of the
                other horizon. - emacs : meta x dissociated-press
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