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Re: A question regarding dictionary entries

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  • Sylvia Sotomayor
    ... You re right, and I do have gifs for the numerals. I should do something like that. ... OK, added to the list of things to do.... -S -- Sylvia Sotomayor
    Message 1 of 26 , Aug 1, 2007
      On 8/1/07, David J. Peterson <dedalvs@...> wrote:
      > Sylvia wrote:
      > <<
      > I would certainly explain in the longer definition that this was 40
      > base 8 (or octal) which is 32 base 10, but for the one word gloss, I'm
      > thinking 32 would be clearer to my mostly English-speaking readers.
      > >>
      >
      > I would definitely agree, if this dictionary is intended to be seen
      > by others.
      >
      > You know what might be neat is a page explaining the number
      > system, and a little script that would convert from base 10 to base
      > 8. There are tons of sites that have a little script that does that,
      > e.g.:
      >
      > http://netzreport.googlepages.com/online_converter_for_numerals.html
      >
      > You could also show what the numeral system looks like in the
      > Kelen script (I was surprised this wasn't on your site [or at least
      > not in any of the places I looked]). Doing it in the script I think
      > will make more sense to someone who's not math-minded.
      > Rather than saying "32 = 40", you'll be saying "32 = %@", or
      > whatever in the Kelen script.

      You're right, and I do have gifs for the numerals. I should do
      something like that.

      ...

      OK, added to the list of things to do....

      -S
      --
      Sylvia Sotomayor
      terjemar@...
      www.terjemar.net
    • Herman Miller
      ... I typically have used decimal numbers in glosses, including exponential notation for larger numbers, but if subscripts are available you might try
      Message 2 of 26 , Aug 1, 2007
        Sylvia Sotomayor wrote:
        > Hi,
        >
        > I am redesigning my dictinary for Kelen (yet again), and I am planning
        > on having short glosses (one word, maybe two) for each stem or base
        > word, and also longer definitions for each fully formed and inflected
        > word. My question: given that Kelen has a base 8 counting system,
        > should I gloss 'āllōr' as 32 or 40? It has the functional equivalent
        > of 40 in the language, being 8x4, but refers to 32 things.
        >
        > Thanks,
        > -S

        I typically have used decimal numbers in glosses, including exponential
        notation for larger numbers, but if subscripts are available you might
        try something like 40<sub>8</sub>. I've occasionally used that kind of
        notation for languages that use base-8 or base-12.
      • Benct Philip Jonsson
        ... Being etymologically inclined I feel pressed to point out that the -ty suffix in the English words for multiples of ten is cognate with _ten_. Perhaps
        Message 3 of 26 , Aug 1, 2007
          On 1.8.2007 Sylvia Sotomayor wrote:
          > I would certainly explain in the longer definition that this was 40
          > base 8 (or octal) which is 32 base 10, but for the one word gloss, I'm
          > thinking 32 would be clearer to my mostly English-speaking readers.

          Being etymologically inclined I feel pressed to point
          out that the "-ty" suffix in the English words for
          multiples of ten is cognate with _ten_. Perhaps you
          can coin a new 'English' suffix _-oct_, so _fouroct_?


          /BP 8^)>
          --
          Benct Philip Jonsson -- melroch atte melroch dotte se
          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
          No man forgets his original trade: the rights of
          nations and of kings sink into questions of grammar,
          if grammarians discuss them.
          -Dr. Samuel Johnson (1707 - 1784)
        • Henrik Theiling
          Hi! ... Or use 040 as in C/C++/Java/Perl/... At least programmers could read it then. **Henrik
          Message 4 of 26 , Aug 2, 2007
            Hi!

            Jörg Rhiemeier writes:
            >...
            > You should gloss it as 32, or better, 4*8, but *not* as 40 because
            > it is a different number.

            Or use 040 as in C/C++/Java/Perl/... At least programmers could read
            it then.

            **Henrik
          • Jörg Rhiemeier
            Hallo! ... If they expect to find this convention in a dictionary. Most people (including many programmers, who may be aware of this convention, but won t
            Message 5 of 26 , Aug 2, 2007
              Hallo!

              On Thu, 2 Aug 2007 14:06:23 +0200, Henrik Theiling wrote:

              > Hi!
              >
              > Jörg Rhiemeier writes:
              > >...
              > > You should gloss it as 32, or better, 4*8, but *not* as 40 because
              > > it is a different number.
              >
              > Or use 040 as in C/C++/Java/Perl/... At least programmers could read
              > it then.

              If they expect to find this convention in a dictionary. Most people
              (including many programmers, who may be aware of this convention,
              but won't expect to find it in a conlang dictionary) will merely
              wonder what the leading zero means, and read it as "40".

              ... brought to you by the Weeping Elf
            • Sylvia Sotomayor
              ... Which is another reason I think I d prefer glossing the word as 4x8. The longer definition can explain in more detail. And maybe even have the number
              Message 6 of 26 , Aug 2, 2007
                On 8/2/07, Jörg Rhiemeier <joerg_rhiemeier@...> wrote:
                > Hallo!
                >
                > On Thu, 2 Aug 2007 14:06:23 +0200, Henrik Theiling wrote:
                >
                > > Hi!
                > >
                > > Jörg Rhiemeier writes:
                > > >...
                > > > You should gloss it as 32, or better, 4*8, but *not* as 40 because
                > > > it is a different number.
                > >
                > > Or use 040 as in C/C++/Java/Perl/... At least programmers could read
                > > it then.
                >
                > If they expect to find this convention in a dictionary. Most people
                > (including many programmers, who may be aware of this convention,
                > but won't expect to find it in a conlang dictionary) will merely
                > wonder what the leading zero means, and read it as "40".
                >
                > ... brought to you by the Weeping Elf
                >

                Which is another reason I think I'd prefer glossing the word as 4x8.
                The longer definition can explain in more detail. And maybe even have
                the number notation in Kelen script.
                -S
                --
                Sylvia Sotomayor
                terjemar@...
                www.terjemar.net
              • Joseph Fatula
                ... I think you d probably be better off glossing it simply as 4x8 , with a note in the dictionary about how the number system works. Otherwise you re going
                Message 7 of 26 , Aug 3, 2007
                  Sylvia Sotomayor wrote:

                  > Which is another reason I think I'd prefer glossing the word as 4x8.
                  > The longer definition can explain in more detail. And maybe even have
                  > the number notation in Kelen script.
                  > -S
                  >

                  I think you'd probably be better off glossing it simply as "4x8", with a
                  note in the dictionary about how the number system works. Otherwise
                  you're going to find yourself repeating the same information over and
                  over again, when you could far more concisely give that information once
                  for the whole system.
                • Lars Finsen
                  ... That was an interesting idea. I suppose -teen must come from OG - tehund or -te:hund, so perhaps we could assume an -ahtaud, giving OE - eahtad, perhaps.
                  Message 8 of 26 , Aug 4, 2007
                    Den 2. aug. 2007 kl. 08.36 skrev Benct Philip Jonsson:
                    >
                    > Being etymologically inclined I feel pressed to point
                    > out that the "-ty" suffix in the English words for
                    > multiples of ten is cognate with _ten_. Perhaps you
                    > can coin a new 'English' suffix _-oct_, so _fouroct_?

                    That was an interesting idea. I suppose -teen must come from OG -
                    tehund or -te:hund, so perhaps we could assume an -ahtaud, giving OE -
                    eahtad, perhaps. Not sure what this would make in modern English
                    though. Perhaps /-eid/ or even /-ei/.

                    LEF
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