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Re: Weekly Vocab #1.1.2 (repost #1)

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  • caeruleancentaur
    ... You don t seem to understand these two verbs the way I do. Snap at and snap off are not synonymous. Snap at means to speak sharply or abruptly. He
    Message 1 of 8 , Sep 1, 2006
      >Henrik Theiling <theiling@...> wrote:

      > - snap at, v. bite off with a quick bite; "The dog snapped off a
      > piece of cloth from the intruder's pants"

      You don't seem to understand these two verbs the way I do. "Snap
      at" and "snap off" are not synonymous.

      "Snap at" means to speak sharply or abruptly. "He snapped at her
      when she mentioned the accident." There is no physical contact
      denoted.

      "Snap off" means to break with a snapping sound. It implies
      something brittle, like a twig or a cracker. Cloth cannot be
      snapped off. "She snapped off a piece of the cracker (not the
      bread) for the baby."

      IMO, the sentence should read "The dog tore off (ripped off) a piece
      of cloth from the intruder's pants."

      And again, IMO, I would not have used the adverb "off," but that's
      just a stylistic point. I see it as redundant with "from." "The
      dog tore a piece of cloth from the intruder's pants."

      My 4¢. Inflation, you know!

      Charlie
      http://wiki.frath.net/senjecas
    • Henrik Theiling
      Hi! ... It is not *me* who understands it in any way. The words together with their definition are taken without modification from the WordNet data base.
      Message 2 of 8 , Sep 1, 2006
        Hi!

        caeruleancentaur <caeruleancentaur@...> writes:
        > >Henrik Theiling <theiling@...> wrote:
        >
        > > - snap at, v. bite off with a quick bite; "The dog snapped off a
        > > piece of cloth from the intruder's pants"
        >
        > You don't seem to understand these two verbs the way I do. "Snap
        > at" and "snap off" are not synonymous.

        It is not *me* who understands it in any way. The words together with
        their definition are taken without modification from the WordNet data
        base. They are picked at random by the program that generates the
        mail.

        Actually, I noticed this, too but only when reading the mail this
        morning on Conlang, and I fully agree with you. I slept when they
        were selected. :-)

        If you feel like making up vocab from it, use any or both senses, or
        whatever you feel is right, or even something completely
        different. :-)

        **Henrik

        PS: I'll add a bigger note to the automatically generated parts.
      • Michael Potter
        ... Well, I needed a reason to get back on here, so here goes. It helps that Suvile already has most of these words. One day, I *will* do something with the
        Message 3 of 8 , Sep 1, 2006
          Henrik Theiling wrote:
          > Last posted: April 5th, 2002
          >

          Well, I needed a reason to get back on here, so here goes. It helps that
          Suvile already has most of these words. One day, I *will* do something
          with the other Idzon languages, but that day is not today.

          >> From: Aidan Grey <grey@...>
          >>
          >> This week's exercises brought to you by the indirect relative and the
          >> letters F (for forest) and M (for mushroom).
          >>
          >> Vocab:
          >>
          >> 1. forest

          alvint "forest" (this is some sort of formation on _alb_ "tree", but I
          don't remember how it happened!)

          >> 2. mushroom (edible)

          walkav "mushroom"

          >> 3. to look for something

          opil "to search, look for"

          >> 4. To find something after searching for it

          lik "to find, discover"

          >> 5. base, bottom

          duro "bottom, deepest part"

          >> 6. moss

          vus "moss" (new word)

          >> 7. basket, bag

          tayl "basket" (new word)

          >> 8. pine needles, leaves of a conifer

          k'r [kr\=] "point"
          (more specifically: _k'r teshale_, with _teshal_ "pine")

          >> 9. each

          tiþ "each"

          >> 10. always

          tiþesh "always" (lit. "every now")

          >> Sentences (1 per word, for now):
          >>
          >> 1. The forest is in that direction. (or "over there", said while
          >> pointing to it)

          yalvint el cirn.
          y- alvint 'l cirn
          the forest toward there
          (Suvile usually omits it, but you can use the verb _ya_ "to be" if you
          really need it.)

          >> 2. I like mushrooms very much!

          elm'r walkavlan omor!
          elm -r walkav -l -an omor
          like 1SG mushroom PL ACC much

          >> 3. I often go searching for mushrooms in the forest.

          opil'r losh walkavlan yalvintir.
          opil -r walkav -el -an y- alvint -ir
          search 1SG mushroom PL ACC the forest LOC

          >> 4. She kept the mushroom that I tripped over.

          irisab iwalkavan edurab iþ.
          iris -ab i- walkav -an edu -r -ab iþ
          keep PAST the mushroom ACC trip 1SG PAST that
          (3rd person singular is the "default" for Suvile verbs.)

          >> 5. At the base of which tree did you find that mushroom?

          lik'l iþ walkavan duroyr atþ albe?
          lik -l iþ walkav -an duro -ir atþ alb -e
          find 2SG that mushroom ACC bottom LOC which? tree GEN
          (_atþ_ is a sort of interrogative pronoun, used in questions in place of
          _iþ_.)

          >> 6. There is no moss on the base of that tree.

          ni vusan duroyr þan albe.
          ni vus -an duro -ir þan alb -e
          not_be moss ACC bottom LOC that tree GEN
          (_ni_ is a negative form of _ya_. It is almost never omitted.)

          >> 7. Put the mushroom in the basket.

          pilc iwalkavan itaylir.
          pilc i- walkav -an i- tayl -ir
          place the mushroom ACC the basket LOC

          Imperatives have three forms in Suvile. In increasing intensity they are:

          1: basic verb form (e.g. _pilc_ [piltS])
          2: 2nd person future (e.g. _pilclud_)
          3: imperative suffix (e.g. _pilci_)

          >> 8. These baskets, the handles of which are made of pine needles, are useful.

          iþ taylel pol yanðerl iþe krot kro teshire.
          iþ tayl -el pol i- anðer -el iþ -e krot k'r -o teshir -e
          this basket PL useful the handle PL that GEN made point ABL pine GEN

          >> 9. That is the woman to whom I give each of the mushrooms.

          þan len'r jiv'r tiþ walkavan.
          þan len -r jiv -r tiþ walkav -an
          that woman DAT give 1SG each mushroom ACC

          >> 10. I always go looking for mushrooms is the forest through which we
          >> walked today.
          >>

          tiþesh opil'r walkavler yalvinte cir pidusab idi.

          tiþesh opil -r walkav -el -r i- alvint -e cir pid -us -ab
          always search 1SG mushroom PL DAT the forest GEN where walk 1PL PAST

          idi
          today

          Two new vocabulary words, plus another 5 in the sentences. According to
          Toolbox, that brings the total up to 1114. I think the grammar was a lot
          harder than the vocab, though. I'm still not sure if the relatives are
          realistic, but Suvile is supposed to be the English of its world, and we
          all know how unrealistic English seems! :p

          --
          Michael Potter
          Idzon Conworld: http://idzon.potterpcs.net
        • caeruleancentaur
          1. forest = câtos The forest is in that direction. câtos tórþim êsa. forest thither is 2. mushroom (edible) = süômbos I like mushrooms very much!
          Message 4 of 8 , Sep 1, 2006
            1. forest = câtos

            The forest is in that direction.
            câtos tórþim êsa.
            forest thither is

            2. mushroom (edible) = süômbos

            I like mushrooms very much!
            ¡musë süômbon méÿu méÿu pîîra!
            I-epen mushrooms very much like

            3. to look for something = pêµa

            I often go searching for mushrooms in the forest.
            mus câtom éna süômbin péru pêµa
            I forest in mushroms often search-for

            4. To find something after searching for it = dêêsa (Is this meant
            to be different than finding something that one wasn't looking for?)

            She kept the mushroom that I tripped over.
            nus, mus nimë sxêli, süômbom per arca.
            she, I it-epen trip-over, mushroom past-ptc. keep

            In answer to the question I just posed, I wonder if "tripped over"
            shouldn't be "stumbled upon." I can't imagine anyone clumsy enough
            to trip over a mushroom!)

            5. base, bottom = nitêros

            At the base of which tree did you find that mushroom?
            tus cüi dorîsïo níterôsïo süômbom nim per dêêsar.
            you which of-tree at-base mushrom that past-ptc. find-?

            6. moss = mûûsis

            There is no moss on the base of that tree.
            mûûsis dorîsïo nîsïo níterôsïo éna vûûla ne.
            moss of-tree that base on there-is not

            7. basket = cüâsïos (bag = mâcos)

            Put the mushroom in the basket.
            tus cüâsïom éna süômbomë stîîve.
            you basket in mushroom-epen put

            8. pine needles, leaves of a conifer = várësxüôjos (vâris = conifer
            + sxüôjos = needle)

            These baskets, the handles of which are made of pine needles, are
            useful.
            cüasïôes dôes, num amlôes várësxüojïôes êsi, noðrôes êsa.
            baskets these, of-them handles made-of-pine-needles are, useful are

            9. each = sênïis

            That is the woman to whom I give each of the mushrooms.
            nus, mus num o süombôm sênïom dôôni, güênus êsa.
            that, I her to of-mushrooms each give, woman is

            10. always = sólum

            I always go looking for mushrooms in the forest through which we
            walked today.
            mus, µus nom tércüe dámrëvi per têrpi, catâsïo éna süômbon sólum
            pêµa.
            I, we it through today past-ptc. walk, forest in mushrooms always
            search-for.

            Charlie
            http://wiki.frath.net/senjecas
          • Carsten Becker
            From: Henrik Theiling Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 5:02 AM ... vinim ... tulang ... balangao (to search) ... sungao ... avan ...
            Message 5 of 8 , Sep 3, 2006
              From: "Henrik Theiling" <theiling@...>
              Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 5:02 AM

              >> 1. forest

              vinim

              >> 2. mushroom (edible)

              tulang

              >> 3. to look for something

              balangao (to search)

              >> 4. To find something after searching for it

              sungao

              >> 5. base, bottom

              avan

              >> 6. moss

              itray

              >> 7. basket, bag

              kasu, ladang

              >> 8. pine needles, leaves of a conifer

              singay (< singaya, lit. "stitcher")

              >> 9. each

              -en (every)

              >> 10. always

              tadayen

              >> 1. The forest is in that direction. (or "over there",
              >> said while
              >> pointing to it)

              Vinimreng ada-bukanea.
              Forest.A that-direction.LOC

              >> 2. I like mushrooms very much!

              Le vatyayang tulangyeon kangan!
              TRG=P like.1s.A mushroom.PL.TRG *very*_much

              >> 3. I often go searching for mushrooms in the forest.

              Ang balangasayin komila tulangyeley vinimea.
              TRG=A search.HABIT.1s.TRG often muchroom.PL.P forest.LOC

              >> 4. She kept the mushroom that I tripped over.

              that means?

              >> 5. At the base of which tree did you find that
              >> mushroom?

              Eyran elinam mehirea le sungevang ada-tulangon?
              Under which tree.LOC TRG=P find.2s.A that-mushroom.TRG

              >> 6. There is no moss on the base of that tree.

              Ya yomoyarareng itrayley avan ada-mehirin.
              TRG=LOC exist.NEG.3s-inani.A moss.P at_bottom_of
              that-tree.TRG

              >> 7. Put the mushroom in the basket.

              Tapiu tulangley kasuea.
              Put.IMP mushroom.P basket.LOC

              >> 8. These baskets, the handles of which are made of
              >> pine needles, are useful.

              Eda-kasuyereng numerambay, sondamyeley sirengena singayena
              mehisingayena.
              This-basket.PL.A A.useful, handle.PL.P REL.A.GEN
              needle.PL.GEN needle-tree.GEN

              >> 9. That is the woman to whom I give each of the
              >> mushrooms.

              Adanyang envanaris si ang ilayin eda-tulangyenley.
              That.A woman.P REL TRG=A give.1s.TRG
              this-mushroom.PL.every.P

              >> 10. I always go looking for mushrooms is the forest
              >> through which we
              >> walked today.

              That should have been "in the forest", no?

              Ya balangasayang tulangyeley kong vinimin manga luga siya
              lampaynang davano.
              TRG=LOC search.HABIT.1s.A mushroom.PL.P inside_of forest.TRG
              through REL.LOC walk.1p.A today

              ('manga luga' = through; 'luga' itself means 'among,
              between', 'manga' indicates motion from one place to another
              by means of the following preposition)

              > - elucidation, n.
              > an act of explaining that serves to clear up and cast
              > light on

              taboyisao (lit. "to clarify")

              > - snap at, v.
              > bite off with a quick bite; "The dog snapped off a
              > piece of cloth from the
              > intruder's pants"

              bitogao mangasara (lit. "to tear away/off")

              And another 9 new words, that makes 1401 entries in the
              dictionary. The sentences were really more difficult than
              the words themselves.

              Yours,
              Carsten

              --
              "Miranayam kepauarà naranoaris." (Kalvin nay Hobbes)
              Palayena, Ravikan 16, 2315 ya 15:08:25 pd
            • Henrik Theiling
              Hi! Last week s sentences are still not complete, but to keep pace I will post it now: forest þörstur
              Message 6 of 8 , Sep 8, 2006
                Hi!

                Last week's sentences are still not complete, but to keep pace
                I will post it now:

                forest þörstur < *forestis
                mushroom þungur < fungus
                to look for kirkir < *circare
                to find (after searching) dérkæprir < discooperire
                base, bottom þundur < fundus
                moss muskur < muscus
                basket kist < cista
                pine needle pínurökur < pinus + acus
                each öður < omnis
                always seppir < semper

                Some sentences:

                Þörstursa er ekki. The forest is over there.
                (ekki < ecce hic)

                Já ama þungar. I like mushrooms very much!
                (já < ego)
                (ama < amo)

                Ekki er né muskur að þundsu There is no moss on the base
                örbrur sir. of that tree.
                (örbrur < *arburis < arboris)

                Póntu þungsu í kistsa. Put the mushroom in the basket.

                Sá er þéfnsa tög dú já onn þung. That is the woman to whom I give
                each of the mushrooms.
                (þéfnsa < femina + ipsa)

                **Henrik
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