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Re: Semantic field for local cases

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  • Jean-François Colson
    Hello Harold, Your system sounds interesting. I ve designed a writing system for a language with only monosyllabic and bisyllabic words, where the monosyllabic
    Message 1 of 7 , Jun 2, 2006
      Hello Harold,

      Your system sounds interesting.
      I've designed a writing system for a language with only monosyllabic and bisyllabic words, where the monosyllabic words will be a regular contraction of some bisyllabic ones.
      The meaning of the words will be carried by the consonants and the relations between the words, i.e. the cases, by the vowels. There are 36 (9*4) vowels, so there are 1296 POSSIBLE cases, but I could drop a few vowels in the future if they seem useless.

      You wrote:

      [...]
      > -are nominative-inessive (inessive)------------in
      [...]
      > -ere genitive-inessive (elative)---------------out from
      [...]
      > -oe dative-inessive (illative)-----------------into
      [...]
      > -aue instrumental-inessive---------------------through
      [...]

      How do you translate the preposition "out"? The elative case implies a movement from the inside of the object. But out do you say "out (from)" without any movement?


      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Harold Ensle" <heensle@...>
      To: <CONLANG@...>
      Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2006 7:05 PM
      Subject: Re: Semantic field for local cases


      > You might find the case system of Ankanian interesting.
      >
      > It has a very similar system, but it is actually a subset
      > of a more general process.
      >
      > Each word in Ankanian has a double declension based on the
      > addition of two vowels. There are 4 primary cases:
      >
      > -a(r-) nominative
      > -o dative
      > -e genitive
      > -ai instrumental
      >
      > There are then 6 secondary cases attachable to these
      > 4 primary endings:
      >
      > positional:
      > -a essive (location at)
      > -o abessive (location near)
      > -e inessive (location inside)
      >
      > logical:
      > -u inclusive (with)
      > -i exclusive (instead of)
      > -r descriptive (like)
      >
      > This creates 28 cases. Here is a list which shows the
      > possible combinations + sound changes incurred:
      >
      > -a nominative
      > -ara nominative-essive (essive)----------------at
      > -are nominative-inessive (inessive)------------in
      > -aro nominative-abessive ----------------------at, near
      > -au nominative-inclusive (comitative)----------with
      > -ari nominative-exlusive-----------------------instead of
      > -ar (-ra) nominative-descriptive (adverbal)----like
      >
      > -e (-eu) genitive------------------------------of
      > -ea genitive-essive (ablative)-----------------from
      > -ere genitive-inessive (elative)---------------out from
      > -eo genitive-abessive--------------------------away from
      > -eyu genitive-inclusive (causative)------------because of
      > -eri genitive-exclusive------------------------despite
      > -er genitive-descriptive-----------------------according to
      >
      > -o dative--------------------------------------(to)
      > -oa dative-essive (allative)-------------------to
      > -oe dative-inessive (illative)-----------------into
      > -oro dative-abessive---------------------------toward
      > -oru dative-inclusive--------------------------for
      > -oi dative-exclusive---------------------------against
      > -or dative-descriptive (mediative)-------------about
      >
      > -ai instrumental-------------------------------with, by
      > -aia instrumental-essive (translative)---------across
      > -aue instrumental-inessive---------------------through
      > -aio instrumental-abessive---------------------around, by
      > -aiu instrumental-inclusive--------------------because of
      > -aui instrumental-exclusive--------------------despite
      > -air instrumental-descriptive (referencial)----relating to
      >
      > If you contemplate on these forms, you will see how they
      > each make sense in how the base case and the secondary
      > case combine to create the listed prepositions.
      >
      > Harold
      >
      >
    • Harold Ensle
      On Fri, 2 Jun 2006 10:52:08 +0200, Jean-François Colson ... Thank you. ... I doubt that I could pronounce 36 vowels. That is quite a few (and even Ankanian
      Message 2 of 7 , Jun 2, 2006
        On Fri, 2 Jun 2006 10:52:08 +0200, Jean-François Colson
        <fa597525@...> wrote:

        >Hello Harold,
        >
        >Your system sounds interesting.

        Thank you.

        >I've designed a writing system for a language with
        >only monosyllabic and bisyllabic words, where the
        >monosyllabic words will be a regular contraction of some
        >bisyllabic ones.
        >The meaning of the words will be carried by the consonants
        >and the relations between the words, i.e. the cases,
        >by the vowels. There are 36 (9*4) vowels, so there
        >are 1296 POSSIBLE cases, but I could drop a few vowels
        >in the future if they seem useless.

        I doubt that I could pronounce 36 vowels. That is quite
        a few (and even Ankanian with its 13 vowel sounds probably
        exceeds the natural language average). Though if you are
        also including duration in the count, that would leave
        18 different vowels which might be feasible.

        Of course, with 1296 possibilities, it would be overkill
        to restrict these to only case forms. It seems that the
        entire grammar could be accomplished with these variations.

        >You wrote:
        >
        >[...]
        >> -are nominative-inessive (inessive)------------in
        >[...]
        >> -ere genitive-inessive (elative)---------------out from
        >[...]
        >> -oe dative-inessive (illative)-----------------into
        >[...]
        >> -aue instrumental-inessive---------------------through
        >[...]
        >
        >How do you translate the preposition "out"?
        >The elative case implies a movement from the inside
        >of the object. But out do you say "out (from)"
        >without any movement?

        Ankanian has positional nouns like:
        tola=region above
        nela=region below
        pöla=region ahead
        mula=region behind
        nala=region outside
        etc.....

        As in many natural languages these relate to an object
        which is in the genitive. Ex: tola dameu=region above a house
        Though in Ankanian they are typically compounded (which
        implies a genitive relation):
        toldama=region above a house (lit. the above-region of a house)

        Positional nominatives also can behave as adverbs thus:
        toldama=above a house
        naldama=ouside of a house

        Harold
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