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Re: Alborgian

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  • Ingmar Roerdinkholder
    I forgot a few things: Like (some) Judeo-Moroccan, Alborgian has 1] t
    Message 1 of 9 , Jul 1, 2005
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      I forgot a few things:

      Like (some) Judeo-Moroccan, Alborgian has 1] t < emphatic d, 2]k < q,
      3]loss of h, and 4]the merger of 'ayn and ghayn:

      1]
      tarab-i [ta"rabi] - he/she hit me; MorArab: Dr@bni
      tahek [ta"hEk] - he laughed; MorArab: D-Häk
      2]
      y kum [i"kum] - stand; MorArab: yqum = stand up
      kambra ["kambra] - moon; MorArab q@mra
      3]
      oa/ia ["owa]/["ija] - he is/she is; MorArab: howwa = he, heyya = she
      xar [Sar] - month; MorArab: shahr
      dêb [deb] - gold; MorArab: d-häb
      4]
      loa ["lowa] - language, tongue; MorArab: lugha
      zaïr [za"ir] - small; MorArab: sghir
      and [and] - with; MorArab: '@nd

      Alborgian gave up emphatic consonants all together, but they still live on
      in the vowels preceding or following:

      emph. cons.(incl. r, q, kh, and sometimes 'ayn, ghayn)
      +Class.Arab long a: > Alb. a [a]
      +Class.Arab long i: > Alb. i [i]
      +Class.Arab long u: > Alb. u [u]
      +Class.Arab ay (>ey)> Alb. ê [e]
      +Class.Arab aw (>ow)> Alb. ô [o]
      'ayn/ghayn+ long i: > Alb. ei[Ei]
      'ayn/ghayn+ long u: > Alb. au[Ou]
      'ayn/ghayn+ ay (>ey)> Alb. ei[Ei]
      'ayn/ghayn+ aw (>ow)> Alb. au[Ou]

      non-emphatic consonants
      +Cl.Arab long a: > Alb. ê [e]
      +Cl.Arab long i: > Alb. i [i]
      +Cl.Arab long u: > Alb. û [y] !!!
      +Cl.Arab ay (>ey)> Alb. ie[jE]
      +Cl.Arab aw (>ow)> Alb. eu[2] !!!

      With <û> [y] and <eu> [2] Alborgian is quite unique amongst the Arab
      (derived) dialects. This may seem odd, but it is a way to compensate the
      loss of emphatic consonants. We find <ö> in Jewish Moroccan dialects as
      well as I wrote before, and in several Moroccan Arabic dialects there is a
      tendency to pronounce <u> as [uO], "barred u" like Swedish/Norw. u in
      <hus>, i.e. somewhere between [u] and [y]. Add to that the pronunciation
      [y] for <u> in Southern Portuguese dialects of the Algarve, not far from
      Alborgia, which were a major source of influence on the language.

      The fact that Alborgian has so many features in common with Judeo-Arabic
      is because of after the reconquesta just before 1500 AD, most Muslim
      Alborgians left, but the Christians and most Jews were allowed to stay,
      although the latter often pseudo-converted to Roman Catholicism, together
      with a few Moors; both being minorities under Moorish rule, the Christian
      and Jewish dialects showed many resemblance to each other.

      Ingmar


      On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 19:11:14 -0400, Ingmar Roerdinkholder
      <ingmar.roerdinkholder@...> wrote:

      >Shukran Jazilan!
      >Actually, there is a quite large Jewish community in E Borg Medina
      >(Alborgia-City), partly speaking Alborgian, partly Ladino and the most
      >recent immigrants from Morocco speaking Maghribi Arabiya.
      >
      >In fact, Alborgian it self, being spoken by non-Muslims, has already some
      >features in common with the Jewish dialects of Moroccan Arabic.
      >
      >E.g. eu [2] for ClassArab au with non-emphatic consonants, as in geuz
      >[Z2z] = two,MorAr. zuj [zuZ];leula ["l2la] = first (fem), MorAr. lula.
      >But: loa ["lowa] = language (<lugha); xorin [Su"ri~] = months (<sh-hur),
      >odina = ear, lehodda [l@"hod:a] = tomorrow etc, so: "o" with emphatics, r,
      >etc
      >
      >â [@]for ClassArab u (non-emph): e lâwel [@ "l@w@l] first (m);
      >kâssi ["k@s:i] everything (<kullshi); moâra [mu"@ra] = flower (<nuwwara);
      >xâft [S@ft] = I saw (<shuft); akâlt = I ate (<kult), but: kolt = I said
      >(<qult).
      >
      >The confusion between s and x [S] is a feature of both Borgi and Jewish
      >Maghribi as well, and the occurence of uvular r [R], in Borgi < rr.
      >e.g. sihed [si"hEd] = someone (<shi-Hedd), y serab [i"srab] = to drink
      >(<yshreb), y seri/será [i"sri] [s@"ra] = buy, bought ;
      >
      >harra ["haRa] = hot (fem) (<Harra), marra ["maRa] = twice, barra ["baRa] =
      >outside.
      >
      >Also t > ts/ch:
      >chesa ["tSEsa] = nine, hetsa ["hEtsa] = until (<Hatta), lebets [l@"bEts) =
      >home (<lil bait), chem [tSEm] = there, chema ["tSEma] = there is/are
      >(<temm(a)), y chemma [i"tSEm:a] = to call, y chellem [i"tSEl:@m] = to
      >speak, sets = six (<setta)
      >
      >Notice the following pronouns with and without -a suffix, dew to Port.
      >influence a special "to be" verb was needed:
      >
      >ien I
      >ent you (masc+fem!)
      >ô he
      >ei she
      >hena we
      >ento you (pl)
      >on they (m+f)
      >
      >onê here
      >chem there
      >
      >but:
      >iena I am
      >enta you are
      >oa he is
      >ia
      >(he)naya
      >(en)toma
      >oma (masc)/ona (fem)
      >
      >(o)nêya here is
      >chema there is
      >
      >past:
      >kânt I was
      >kânti you were
      >kên he she it was
      >kânna we were
      >kânto you were (pl)
      >kêno they were
      >
      >Same with "to have":
      >Forms with "and-" can be left out
      >
      >n'ahu (and-i) I have (<nakhud = I take, 'endi = I have, litt:with
      me)
      >t'ahu (and-ek) you have
      >y'ahu (and-o)
      >y'ahu (and-a)
      >n'ahudo (and-na)
      >t'ahudo (and-ko)
      >y'ahudo (and-on)
      >
      >past:
      >hot
      >hochi
      >ha
      >honna
      >hocho
      >hado
      >
      >Shalom, Ingmar
      >
      >
      >Shaul Vardi wrote:
      >
      >That's really beautiful! And Portuguese and Arabic are two of the most
      >attractive languages to my ear, so the combination is great.
      >
      >> Anyone familiar with (Western) Arabic dialects should
      >> recognize most words, and a lot of Portuguese ones as well.
      >>
      >Well I speak an Eastern dialect (Palestinian) but still did fine with
      >the Arab words, and the Portuguese I got from Spanish and French.
      >
      >Maybe on this island there was also a small residual Jewish community
      >that survived the Inquisition? If I have time, I'll try to write a song
      >they might have sung, in their Hebrew-colored dialect of Alborgian.
      >
      >Shaul
      >
      >
      >Ingmar Roerdinkholder wrote:
      >
      >>An example of Alborgian, originally a Maghrebi-Arabic dialect, comparable
      >>to Maltese but even more thoroughly influenced by Romance; it's the last
      >>treshold of Iberian Arabic, spoken by Christians on the imaginary island
      >>of Alborgia, South of Portugal.
      >>
      >>A short example:
      >>
      >>We nar mesih w'oliedo kal n'el abo d'o:
      >>Papá, en heb (en) mesí f'el alm kwir!
      >>Xâft youa basta d'el blêna zaïra deva.
      >>En soal-ek: atê-li 'l denêr-i, o ageos!
      >>L'abo gewab: Joan, enta l'olied'i 'l char helo.
      >>Iella 'l soal-ek meis fásel l'i.
      >>Alês la, papá? La'n kar figa onê.
      >>
      >>One good day a boy said to his father:
      >>Daddy, I want to go into the big world!
      >>I've seen enough of our little country now.
      >>I ask you: give me my money, and farewell!
      >>The father answered: John, you are my sweetest son.
      >>But your question isn't easy to me.
      >>Why not, Dad? I cannot stay here.
      >>
      >>Pronunciation:
      >>more or less Portuguese, so:
      >>-o = usually [u]
      >>x, -s = [S]
      >>ge, gi, j = [Z]
      >>ê = [e]
      >>é = [E]
      >>ô = [o]
      >>ó = [O]
      >>
      >>Anyone familiar with (Western) Arabic dialects should recognize most
      >words,
      >>and a lot of Portuguese ones as well.
      >>
      >>
      >>Ingmar
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>Ingmar wrote:
      >>>> I made all those Artlangs because I liked it, and not because I want
      >>>> the world to speak them, including Middelsprake.
      >>Henrik wrote:
      >>>Wow! Many of these seem really interesting. Could you post some bits
      >>>and pieces to give an impression?
      >>=========================================================================
      >=========================================================================
    • Isaac Penzev
      ... [skip] Very, very interesting. Where do you find information on the Arabic dialects? -- Yitzik
      Message 2 of 9 , Jul 4, 2005
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        Ingmar Roerdinkholder jazdy:

        > An example of Alborgian, originally a Maghrebi-Arabic dialect, comparable
        > to Maltese
        [skip]

        Very, very interesting. Where do you find information on the Arabic
        dialects?

        -- Yitzik
      • Ingmar Roerdinkholder
        Alborgian was a project I was working on about 10 to five years ago. I used a number of books for the info on Arabic dialects: -
        Message 3 of 9 , Jul 4, 2005
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          Alborgian was a project I was working on about 10 to five years ago.
          I used a number of books for the info on Arabic dialects:

          -<Actes des premières journées internationales de dialectologie arabe de
          Paris> - INALCO 1994; especially the article <Vocalisme comparé des
          parlers judéo-marocains> by Simon Lévy, and <Formes et structures du
          mixage linguistique dans les langues secrètes juives du Maroc> by Joseph
          Chetrit

          -<Le parler Arabe des Juifs de Tunis> by David Cohen

          -<Handbuch der arabischen Dialekte> by Fischer & Jastrow

          -<Esquisse grammaticale de l'Arabe Maghrébin> by Ph. Marçais

          -<Maltese linguistic surveys> by Joseph Aquilina

          and a copple of books about Moroccan Arabic...

          For the rest I used my imagination and my (somewhat limited) knowledge of
          the Portuguese language and its dialects...

          Is there someone at this list who knows (about) Maltese?
          I am very curious what a speaker of Maltese thinks of Alborgian, and if
          s/he can understand it, recognize it as related to his/her own language
          etc. And the same goes for speakers or students of Maghrebi Arabic
          (Algeria, Morocco, Tunesia, Mauretania, Lybia) as well, of course.


          Ingmar


          On Mon, 4 Jul 2005 15:51:43 +0300, Isaac Penzev <isaacp@...> wrote:

          >Ingmar Roerdinkholder jazdy:
          >
          >> An example of Alborgian, originally a Maghrebi-Arabic dialect,
          comparable
          >> to Maltese
          >[skip]
          >
          >Very, very interesting. Where do you find information on the Arabic
          >dialects?
          >
          >-- Yitzik
          >=========================================================================
        • Isaac Penzev
          ... I thought there was something on the web... No wonder my Romance-Arabic hybride Ajami borrows from Classical Arabic. Does somebody know why most Arabic
          Message 4 of 9 , Jul 4, 2005
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            Ingmar Roerdinkholder jazdy:

            > Alborgian was a project I was working on about 10 to five years ago.
            > I used a number of books for the info on Arabic dialects:

            :(

            I thought there was something on the web...
            No wonder my Romance-Arabic hybride "Ajami" borrows from Classical Arabic.
            Does somebody know why most Arabic borrowings in Farsi are very close to
            Standard Arabic (only adapted to Farsi phonology)? That was a pattern for
            me.

            -- Yitzik
          • Ingmar Roerdinkholder
            ... From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder To: Cc: Ingmar Roerdinkholder
            Message 5 of 9 , Jul 4, 2005
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              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Ingmar Roerdinkholder" <ingmar.roerdinkholder@...>
              To: <CONLANG@...>
              Cc: "Ingmar Roerdinkholder" <ingmar.roerdinkholder@...>
              Sent: Monday, July 04, 2005 9:20 PM
              Subject: Re: Alborgian


              Did you name it after "Ajami", better known as Mozárabe (Mozarabic), the
              Romance language of Andalucia under Moorish rule?

              I'd like to know more about YOUR Ajami, is it a conlang or is it a modern
              form of Mozarabe, or ... Tell me all about it.

              Btw, I'm sure there is enough to be found on the web about all kind of
              Arabic dialects, just try and look for it.

              If your interested, I can send you my file about Alborgian, but it is
              written in Dutch...

              Ingmar


              On Mon, 4 Jul 2005 21:56:45 +0300, Isaac Penzev <isaacp@...> wrote:

              >Ingmar Roerdinkholder jazdy:
              >
              >> Alborgian was a project I was working on about 10 to five years ago.
              >> I used a number of books for the info on Arabic dialects:
              >
              >:(
              >
              >I thought there was something on the web...
              >No wonder my Romance-Arabic hybride "Ajami" borrows from Classical Arabic.
              >Does somebody know why most Arabic borrowings in Farsi are very close to
              >Standard Arabic (only adapted to Farsi phonology)? That was a pattern for
              >me.
              >
              >-- Yitzik
            • Isaac Penzev
              ... Mozarabic was the prototype I had in mind while constructing this project. I invented the name 3ajamiya before I knew it had been applied to the REAL
              Message 6 of 9 , Jul 5, 2005
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                Ingmar Roerdinkholder jazdy:

                > Did you name it after "Ajami", better known as Mozárabe (Mozarabic), the
                > Romance language of Andalucia under Moorish rule?

                Mozarabic was the prototype I had in mind while constructing this project. I
                invented the name "3ajamiya" before I knew it had been applied to the REAL
                language.

                > I'd like to know more about YOUR Ajami, is it a conlang or is it a modern
                > form of Mozarabe, or ... Tell me all about it.

                Since the conhistory of the project lies in the realm of an alternative
                timeline (where there were no Reconquista), it is definitely a conlang.
                Resources about Mozarabaic *here are too scarce, so MY Ajami is a kind of
                Mediaeval Spanish plus a lot of Arabic lexical borrowings. I used Farsi as a
                pattern.

                Most of the material is on paper. I have uploaded today several sporadic web
                pages that were originally intended to be my private notes in digital form,
                but I had no time to type all I had on paper. You can see it here:

                http://isaacp.narod.ru/01main.htm

                To see it correctly, you may need to switch to WestEuropean encoding
                manually - blame it to the Narod.ru...

                > Btw, I'm sure there is enough to be found on the web about all kind of
                > Arabic dialects, just try and look for it.
                >
                > If your interested, I can send you my file about Alborgian, but it is
                > written in Dutch...

                No, thanx. I think I could figure out linguistic Dutch, but Arabic dialects
                aren't my first priority now. I'm trying to find time and stamina for
                fleshing out my project #20 (a Turkic conlang with strong Slavic influence)
                and a concultural project of alternative history "1934: Kirov Is With Us".

                -- Yitzik
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