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131102Re: Possession and genitivity

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  • (no author)
    May 1, 2005
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      Carsten Becker wrote:

      >On Saturday 30 April 2005 20:45 CEST, Joseph Bridwell wrote:
      >
      > > > One such language is spoken on this island - it's
      > > > called Welsh :)
      > >
      > > Ah, yes - possession through nouns being juxtaposition. I
      > > believe Semitic languages do this too.
      > >
      > > And English, which uses "of" more often to mark false
      > > possessive and partitive, than to mark real possession.
      >
      >German also differs:
      >
      > 1) a. In writing:
      >
      > das Buch des Jungen
      > ART.sg.n.NOM book ART.sg.m.GEN boy
      >
      > "the book of the boy."
      >
      > b. Colloquial:
      >
      > dem Jungen sein Buch
      > ART.sg.m.DAT boy 3sg.m.GEN book
      >
      > "the boy his book"
      >
      > 2) ein Blatt Papier
      > INDEF-ART.n.NOM sheet paper
      >
      > "a sheet paper"
      >
      >French has (1) le livre du garçon and (2) une pièce du
      >papier, the same as in English actually.

      French only has (1)...

      "Une pièce du papier" isn't a good translation for "a sheet paper"

      "Une pièce du papier" would be "one of the paper's pieces"

      "A sheet paper" could be "un papier en feuille", wich is not even possession

      (I use could "could" because that's not a sentence I've ever heard (neither
      do I understand what that sentence really means), I'd have understand better
      if it'd been "A paper sheet", what would've been "Une feuille de papier" but
      that is no more of a possession than the other is)


      French doesn't seems to share what y'all now call "false possession" since a
      few days, a translation of one of your false possessive phrase is simply not
      possessive in French. French uses the preposition "de"(of) to mark
      possession but the next noun ought to have an article

      "le chien du voisin" (du = "de" + "le") = the neightbour's dog
      "la robe de ma soeur" = my sister's dress

      The only situations when the possessor can't have an article is when it is a
      proper name (so that carries its own definitness) or a pronoun (for which
      the possessive articles are there to mean that kind of meaning)

      >
      >Carsten

      - Max
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