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Re: [conculture] Disposal of the dead (was: Care of the disabled (was: Re: ...))

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  • BPJ
    ... That s pretty much the reasons why the Sohlçan cremate their dead too, except for the difference that they don t believe it takes an agent for a wicked,
    Message 1 of 12 , Apr 29, 2012
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      On 2012-04-29 12:55, Jörg Rhiemeier wrote:
      > Hallo conculturists!
      >
      > On Friday 27 April 2012 16:32:49 Alistair Young wrote:
      >
      >> As a further note I forgot to include, this also ties into traditional
      >> practices for disposal of the dead. The eldrae were always cremators,
      >> rather than inhumators, for the theological reason that the soul (this
      >> being millennia before the definition of "soul" was equated to the
      >> definition of "mind-state"), as a Platonic/spiritual entity designed for
      >> this, remained attached to its body until the body decayed enough to break
      >> the sympathetic relationship and let it _out_. Thus, it was the height of
      >> rudeness, and indeed cruelty, to insist that the soul should wait around in
      >> the rotting meat until the body "naturally" decayed enough to let it out -
      >> destroying the body to free the soul was the very least of the courtesies a
      >> respectful descendant owed their ancestor.
      >
      > Similar to what the Elbi believe. They cremate their dead for
      > three reasons:
      >
      > 1. To make sure that the soul gets released from the body and can
      > ascend to the realm of the dead, which is believed to lie on
      > the Moon (hence, the cremation must always be while the Moon
      > is above the horizon).
      >
      > 2. To prevent evil spirits or wizards from abusing the body and
      > creating a revenant or zombie.
      >
      > 3. To get rid of the body in a clean way. After all, corpses are
      > *MESSY*.

      That's pretty much the reasons why the Sohlçan cremate their dead
      too, except for the difference that they don't believe it takes
      an agent for a wicked, or cursed, person to become a revenant;
      they believe that they may do so of their own accord. A person
      who has been cremated can still become a ghost, but ghosts are
      not nearly as scary, and messy, as revenants. Actually some
      people are *not* cremated as a punishment -- an additional one
      in the case of executed criminals[^1] -- but in that case their
      limbs are cut off (sometimes before death) to prevent them from
      walking again, and their remains are disposed of in some canyon
      in the desert. The ashes of the cremated are gathered into an urn
      -- of stone, metal or pottery according to the wealth of the
      deceased -- and placed in a tomb or buried -- again by socio-
      economic criteria. This is actually a holdover from the times when
      their ancestors practiced inhumation. The nomadic Yahçan
      of southern Sohldar attach no significance whatever to the ashes
      of the deceased: they just build the pyre suitably out of the way
      and leave it there. The place which matters to them is the one
      where the person drew their last breath, and their memory is
      honored and kept by removing the deceased's jewelry[^2] and
      hand it out among their same-sex closest relatives.
      Among the Lincen of the coast the wealthiest and most honored
      will have a ship used for their pyre and a cairn raised over
      the ashes. Even the poor will burn their dead on a boat or raft,
      since it is believed that the dead souls actually sail the Waters
      Above to the Other Land; a belief which is exceedingly strange
      to the Inlanders -- almost as strange as the fact that Lincen
      who die on oversea voyages are said to be cremated on a raft
      on the water. Inlanders will tend to disbelieve this as water
      is sacred to all Sohlçan. Lincen won't point out to them what
      it would be like to keep a dead body on board on an oversea
      voyage. Their ancestors long ago faund out that there is no use
      arguing with Inlanders about that!

      [^1]: Sohlçan are not modern, and their social and legal customs
      are hardly a model for modern societies. The more urban
      and wealthy they are the less agreable they are, if you
      ask a Yahçan (who by no means are modern themselves --
      living in houses, wot?) They say that the only
      difference between a Sahlel noble and an Isturcen warlord
      is the color of their robes.

      [^2]: Anyone in Sahlel knows that among the Yahçan even a young
      shepherd wears almost as much bling as a noble dandy, not
      to speak of their women!

      /bpj
    • tomhchappell
      Is anyone s conculture notiphagic (that is, they eat the sick)?
      Message 2 of 12 , May 2, 2012
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        Is anyone's conculture notiphagic (that is, they eat the sick)?
      • Adam Walker
        Ewwww. That s sick. Adam (pun intended)
        Message 3 of 12 , May 2, 2012
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          Ewwww.  That's sick.
           
          Adam (pun intended)

          On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 6:33 PM, tomhchappell <tomhchappell@...> wrote:
           

          Is anyone's conculture notiphagic (that is, they eat the sick)?


        • Ben Karnell
          ... I like this, a lot. Some years ago, before I became aware of Conculturing as a deliberate activity, I did some initial designs of a conculture based on the
          Message 4 of 12 , May 3, 2012
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            --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Jörg Rhiemeier <joerg_rhiemeier@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hallo conculturists!

            > 1. To make sure that the soul gets released from the body and can
            > ascend to the realm of the dead, which is believed to lie on
            > the Moon (hence, the cremation must always be while the Moon
            > is above the horizon).

            I like this, a lot.

            Some years ago, before I became aware of Conculturing as a deliberate activity, I did some initial designs of a conculture based on the premise that that a crackpot-theory book I had read on ancient Egypt was real. They had various traditions for the treatment of the dead and care of tombs that were related to a number of celestial bodies, most especially Orion.

            Does it matter to the Elbi whether the burial takes place at night or day?

            >
            > 2. To prevent evil spirits or wizards from abusing the body and
            > creating a revenant or zombie.
            >
            > 3. To get rid of the body in a clean way. After all, corpses are
            > *MESSY*.

            Two very serious safety concerns, definitely!

            Ben

            >
            > --
            > ... brought to you by the Weeping Elf
            > http://www.joerg-rhiemeier.de/Conlang/index.html
            > "Bêsel asa Éam, a Éam atha cvanthal a cvanth atha Éamal." - SiM 1:1
            >
          • Jörg Rhiemeier
            Hallo conculturists! ... Thank you! ... A cremation may be at night or at day - as long as the Moon is above the horizon. And it has to happen within three
            Message 5 of 12 , May 4, 2012
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              Hallo conculturists!

              On Friday 04 May 2012 05:12:20 Ben Karnell wrote:

              > --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Jörg Rhiemeier <joerg_rhiemeier@...>
              wrote:
              > > Hallo conculturists!
              > >
              > > 1. To make sure that the soul gets released from the body and can
              > >
              > > ascend to the realm of the dead, which is believed to lie on
              > > the Moon (hence, the cremation must always be while the Moon
              > > is above the horizon).
              >
              > I like this, a lot.

              Thank you!

              > Some years ago, before I became aware of Conculturing as a deliberate
              > activity, I did some initial designs of a conculture based on the premise
              > that that a crackpot-theory book I had read on ancient Egypt was real.
              > They had various traditions for the treatment of the dead and care of
              > tombs that were related to a number of celestial bodies, most especially
              > Orion.
              >
              > Does it matter to the Elbi whether the burial takes place at night or day?

              A cremation may be at night or at day - as long as the Moon is
              above the horizon. And it has to happen within three days after
              the death. So if someone dies close to a full moon, the cremation
              must take place at night.

              --
              ... brought to you by the Weeping Elf
              http://www.joerg-rhiemeier.de/Conlang/index.html
              "Bêsel asa Éam, a Éam atha cvanthal a cvanth atha Éamal." - SiM 1:1
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