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Re: [comic_books] Would like to ask info on a comic book storyline...

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  • desmond mcquilkin
    in a similar note, i wonder why movie studios feel they must begin a super hero movie with the orign and then pick and choose characters and situations from
    Message 1 of 9 , Feb 6, 2006
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      in a similar note, i wonder why movie studios feel they must begin a super hero movie with the orign and then pick and choose characters and situations from 40+ years of comix history, add the arch villain and then go from their. i think a good movie could be made from any tpb or story arch without starting at the beginning or anything. why is their no dark knight movie? wouldn't the x-men movie be great if it was just the dark phoenix saga?
      i know what you're saying, "but how would the audience know what was going on?"
      but how did we know what was going on in star wars or any other adventure/sci-fi movie. you don't need to know that much to enjoy the current story. i started reading the x-men in 1982 in the middle of a "Brood" storyline & i got up to speed w/o having to go back to the orignial x-men or reading 1 issue of the new mutants.
      as to why they don't reprint unpopular storylines--that could be a potential waste of money. isn't the industry doing poorly enough?
      The Architect Formerly Known As Heero <heero_yuy2@...> wrote:
      Greetings.

      I would like to ask information to know what Marvel comic presented
      the battle with the Marvel Universe against the Living Monolith? the
      one with the origin, the claim to the Egyptian throne, the absorption
      of cosmic powers from the Fantastic Four, the increase in size, the
      rampage in New York, and Captain America's force stopping the chaos. I
      just remembered reading it from a friend when I was 6 and I want to
      buy those issues as a sentimental value.

      Thank you very much.

      I was wondering why comic industries seldom put trade paperbacks as
      much as all of them comics in years and put it on the most popular
      storyline only. The Marvel Essentials were good, so is DC comics
      presents, but because even i can't find this storyline mentioned
      above, i was just worried they just choose popular ones. Before, it
      wasn't that way. I buy even some old Spiderman or Transformers or
      All-Star Comics mini-comics since, but they never reprint it on
      selected storylines, just continuous issues.








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    • Mark Hershberger
      Hello, This is my first time contributing. I m afraid I m going to have to respectfully disagree with Desmond s assertions. Filmmakers feel it necessary to
      Message 2 of 9 , Feb 6, 2006
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        Hello,
        This is my first time contributing. I'm afraid I'm
        going to have to respectfully disagree with Desmond's
        assertions. Filmmakers feel it necessary to start from
        the beginning to tell the story because otherwise he
        storytelling would be incoherent. Its relatively easy
        to pick up from a comic book because characters
        constantly talk and think in exposition to re-explain
        things to readers. And the discussion in the letters
        page usually helps fill in on some info too. The Dark
        Phoenix saga only works because the history of the
        characters informs the reader in the tragedy and the
        loss of Jean Grey's death. The Dark Knight Returns
        only works because we know who everyone is. The book
        itself doesn't tell us much about the peripheral
        characters in the story. Only after reading it a
        couple times did I catch the references to Green
        Arrow, Green Lantern, Celina Kyle, and so forth.
        Anyway I always thought the storytelling in the X-Men
        movies was consistent with the comic. Stories always
        start in the middle of something else going on,
        character arcs are left unresolved, and Professor X
        gets taken out too easily. But that's just my opinion.
        As for Architect, I can't help you either. I don't
        know what issues that story takes place in. Sounds
        like a fun story though. And I have no idea what their
        decision making process is as as what to reprint. I
        guess they have to maintain a balance between new and
        old and sometimes good stories get lost along the way.
        Mark Hershberger


        --- desmond mcquilkin <kid_zombie@...> wrote:

        > in a similar note, i wonder why movie studios feel
        > they must begin a super hero movie with the orign
        > and then pick and choose characters and situations
        > from 40+ years of comix history, add the arch
        > villain and then go from their. i think a good movie
        > could be made from any tpb or story arch without
        > starting at the beginning or anything. why is their
        > no dark knight movie? wouldn't the x-men movie be
        > great if it was just the dark phoenix saga?
        > i know what you're saying, "but how would the
        > audience know what was going on?"
        > but how did we know what was going on in star wars
        > or any other adventure/sci-fi movie. you don't need
        > to know that much to enjoy the current story. i
        > started reading the x-men in 1982 in the middle of a
        > "Brood" storyline & i got up to speed w/o having to
        > go back to the orignial x-men or reading 1 issue of
        > the new mutants.
        > as to why they don't reprint unpopular
        > storylines--that could be a potential waste of
        > money. isn't the industry doing poorly enough?
        > The Architect Formerly Known As Heero
        > <heero_yuy2@...> wrote:
        > Greetings.
        >
        > I would like to ask information to know what Marvel
        > comic presented
        > the battle with the Marvel Universe against the
        > Living Monolith? the
        > one with the origin, the claim to the Egyptian
        > throne, the absorption
        > of cosmic powers from the Fantastic Four, the
        > increase in size, the
        > rampage in New York, and Captain America's force
        > stopping the chaos. I
        > just remembered reading it from a friend when I was
        > 6 and I want to
        > buy those issues as a sentimental value.
        >
        > Thank you very much.
        >
        > I was wondering why comic industries seldom put
        > trade paperbacks as
        > much as all of them comics in years and put it on
        > the most popular
        > storyline only. The Marvel Essentials were good, so
        > is DC comics
        > presents, but because even i can't find this
        > storyline mentioned
        > above, i was just worried they just choose popular
        > ones. Before, it
        > wasn't that way. I buy even some old Spiderman or
        > Transformers or
        > All-Star Comics mini-comics since, but they never
        > reprint it on
        > selected storylines, just continuous issues.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
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      • RussLee74@comcast.net
        It sounds like you re talking about the Revenge of the Living Monolith graphic novel. I don t know if Marvel ever reprinted it, but this is what it looked
        Message 3 of 9 , Feb 6, 2006
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          It sounds like you're talking about the Revenge of the Living Monolith graphic novel. I don't know if Marvel ever reprinted it, but this is what it looked like

          http://www.comiccovers.com/comiccovers-280/Revenge%20Of%20The%20Living%20Monolith%20%5BMarvel%5D%20OS1/0001.jpg

          Russ

          > I would like to ask information to know what Marvel comic presented
          > the battle with the Marvel Universe against the Living Monolith? the
          > one with the origin, the claim to the Egyptian throne, the absorption
          > of cosmic powers from the Fantastic Four, the increase in size, the
          > rampage in New York, and Captain America's force stopping the chaos. I
          > just remembered reading it from a friend when I was 6 and I want to
          > buy those issues as a sentimental value.
          >
          > Thank you very much.
          >
          > I was wondering why comic industries seldom put trade paperbacks as
          > much as all of them comics in years and put it on the most popular
          > storyline only. The Marvel Essentials were good, so is DC comics
          > presents, but because even i can't find this storyline mentioned
          > above, i was just worried they just choose popular ones. Before, it
          > wasn't that way. I buy even some old Spiderman or Transformers or
          > All-Star Comics mini-comics since, but they never reprint it on
          > selected storylines, just continuous issues.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ________________________________________________________________________
          > ________________________________________________________________________
          >
          > Message: 9
          > Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2006 22:42:41 -0500
          > From: "Neet-O-Rama" <neetstuff@...>
          > Subject: Very Vintage Underground Comix: Corben, Crumb, Spain 1st more
          >
          > Very Vintage Underground Comix: Corben, Crumb, Spain 1st more
          >
          > I thought you might like to know that I'm purging more of my personal
          > underground comix collection including many rare 1968 and up VINTAGE Underground
          > comix many with very early work by R. Crumb, S. Clay Williams, SPAIN, Robt.
          > Williams, RICH CORBEN, etc. This material is on ebay if you are interested
          > please check out our listing at:
          >
          > http://tinyurl.com/8wp24 we're only about 1/2 way through this batch so keep
          > watching....
          >
          > You will also find many many UG comix at current cover price (for some reason
          > some people think that UG comix haven't been published since the Summer of Love
          > and have been exploiting and overcharging people ever since!) anyway.....
          >
          > ....Thanks for any interest
          > Sasha
          > QualityComicsAmerica
          > www.neetorama.com unbelievable amount of stuff at the home site
          >
          > [This message contained attachments]
          >
          >
          >
          > ________________________________________________________________________
          > ________________________________________________________________________
          >
          > Message: 10
          > Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 10:20:17 -0800 (PST)
          > From: desmond mcquilkin <kid_zombie@...>
          > Subject: Re: Would like to ask info on a comic book storyline...
          >
          > in a similar note, i wonder why movie studios feel they must begin a super hero
          > movie with the orign and then pick and choose characters and situations from 40+
          > years of comix history, add the arch villain and then go from their. i think a
          > good movie could be made from any tpb or story arch without starting at the
          > beginning or anything. why is their no dark knight movie? wouldn't the x-men
          > movie be great if it was just the dark phoenix saga?
          > i know what you're saying, "but how would the audience know what was going
          > on?"
          > but how did we know what was going on in star wars or any other
          > adventure/sci-fi movie. you don't need to know that much to enjoy the current
          > story. i started reading the x-men in 1982 in the middle of a "Brood" storyline
          > & i got up to speed w/o having to go back to the orignial x-men or reading 1
          > issue of the new mutants.
          > as to why they don't reprint unpopular storylines--that could be a potential
          > waste of money. isn't the industry doing poorly enough?
          > The Architect Formerly Known As Heero <heero_yuy2@...> wrote:
          > Greetings.
          >
          > I would like to ask information to know what Marvel comic presented
          > the battle with the Marvel Universe against the Living Monolith? the
          > one with the origin, the claim to the Egyptian throne, the absorption
          > of cosmic powers from the Fantastic Four, the increase in size, the
          > rampage in New York, and Captain America's force stopping the chaos. I
          > just remembered reading it from a friend when I was 6 and I want to
          > buy those issues as a sentimental value.
          >
          > Thank you very much.
          >
          > I was wondering why comic industries seldom put trade paperbacks as
          > much as all of them comics in years and put it on the most popular
          > storyline only. The Marvel Essentials were good, so is DC comics
          > presents, but because even i can't find this storyline mentioned
          > above, i was just worried they just choose popular ones. Before, it
          > wasn't that way. I buy even some old Spiderman or Transformers or
          > All-Star Comics mini-comics since, but they never reprint it on
          > selected storylines, just continuous issues.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > SPONSORED LINKS
          > Comic book Comic book store Selling comic book Comic book artist
          > Comic book cover Comic book for sale
          >
          > ---------------------------------
          > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
          >
          >
          > Visit your group "comic_books" on the web.
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > comic_books-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
          >
          >
          > ---------------------------------
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ---------------------------------
          > Brings words and photos together (easily) with
          > PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.
          >
          > [This message contained attachments]
          >
          >
          >
          > ________________________________________________________________________
          > ________________________________________________________________________
          >
          > Message: 11
          > Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 19:49:13 -0000
          > From: "lcentor" <larry@...>
          > Subject: INVADERS TV SERIES...
          >
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          >
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          > <http://www.centormedia.com/SETS.HTM>
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [This message contained attachments]
          >
          >
          >
          > ________________________________________________________________________
          > ________________________________________________________________________
          >
          > Message: 12
          > Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 20:05:54 -0000
          > From: "John Callie Bailey" <jcbailey111@...>
          > Subject: cheap comics on ebay silver age giant size x men # 1 and more
          >
          > http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZetsujbQQhtZ-1
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ________________________________________________________________________
          > ________________________________________________________________________
          >
          > Message: 13
          > Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 22:03:59 -0000
          > From: "Gordon" <draclock@...>
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          > MOVIE MANIACS SERIES 7 COLONIAL MARINE CPL HICKS AF $7.00
          > PINK PANTHER INSPECTOR CROUSEAU ACTION FIGURE $5.00
          > PINK PANTHER THE MAN ACTION FIGURE $5.00
          > REN & STIMPY MR HORSE AF $15.00
          > REN & STIMPY SHAVEN YAK AF $9.00
          > REN & STIMPY STIMPY AF $9.00
          > ROBOTECH NEW GENERATION STEALTH SHADOW FIGHTER TOYFARE EXCLUSIVE
          > $3.00
          > SPAWN REBORN INTERLINK SPAWN AF $7.00
          > SPAWN REBORN MANGA SHE-SPAWN AF $3.00
          > Star Wars 1982 Empire Strikes Back Collector's Cup! $2.00
          >
          > http://www.legendsinteractive.com
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ________________________________________________________________________
          > ________________________________________________________________________
          >
          > Message: 14
          > Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2006 00:08:23 -0000
          > From: "Ryan" <kcbuff8@...>
          > Subject: For Sale: X-MEN: Rise of Apocalypse Limited Series Full Run
          >
          > Rise of Apocalypse. Limited Series. Issues 1-4. Full Run. Very good condition.
          >
          > http://cm.ebay.com/cm/ck/1065-29296-2357-0?
          > uid=140709163&site=0&ver=LCA080805&item=6603444479&lk=URL
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ________________________________________________________________________
          > ________________________________________________________________________
          >
          > Message: 15
          > Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 16:03:27 -0800 (PST)
          > From: Mark Hershberger <mlhershb2@...>
          > Subject: Re: Would like to ask info on a comic book storyline...
          >
          > Hello,
          > This is my first time contributing. I'm afraid I'm
          > going to have to respectfully disagree with Desmond's
          > assertions. Filmmakers feel it necessary to start from
          > the beginning to tell the story because otherwise he
          > storytelling would be incoherent. Its relatively easy
          > to pick up from a comic book because characters
          > constantly talk and think in exposition to re-explain
          > things to readers. And the discussion in the letters
          > page usually helps fill in on some info too. The Dark
          > Phoenix saga only works because the history of the
          > characters informs the reader in the tragedy and the
          > loss of Jean Grey's death. The Dark Knight Returns
          > only works because we know who everyone is. The book
          > itself doesn't tell us much about the peripheral
          > characters in the story. Only after reading it a
          > couple times did I catch the references to Green
          > Arrow, Green Lantern, Celina Kyle, and so forth.
          > Anyway I always thought the storytelling in the X-Men
          > movies was consistent with the comic. Stories always
          > start in the middle of something else going on,
          > character arcs are left unresolved, and Professor X
          > gets taken out too easily. But that's just my opinion.
          > As for Architect, I can't help you either. I don't
          > know what issues that story takes place in. Sounds
          > like a fun story though. And I have no idea what their
          > decision making process is as as what to reprint. I
          > guess they have to maintain a balance between new and
          > old and sometimes good stories get lost along the way.
          > Mark Hershberger
          >
          >
          > --- desmond mcquilkin <kid_zombie@...> wrote:
          >
          > > in a similar note, i wonder why movie studios feel
          > > they must begin a super hero movie with the orign
          > > and then pick and choose characters and situations
          > > from 40+ years of comix history, add the arch
          > > villain and then go from their. i think a good movie
          > > could be made from any tpb or story arch without
          > > starting at the beginning or anything. why is their
          > > no dark knight movie? wouldn't the x-men movie be
          > > great if it was just the dark phoenix saga?
          > > i know what you're saying, "but how would the
          > > audience know what was going on?"
          > > but how did we know what was going on in star wars
          > > or any other adventure/sci-fi movie. you don't need
          > > to know that much to enjoy the current story. i
          > > started reading the x-men in 1982 in the middle of a
          > > "Brood" storyline & i got up to speed w/o having to
          > > go back to the orignial x-men or reading 1 issue of
          > > the new mutants.
          > > as to why they don't reprint unpopular
          > > storylines--that could be a potential waste of
          > > money. isn't the industry doing poorly enough?
          > > The Architect Formerly Known As Heero
          > > <heero_yuy2@...> wrote:
          > > Greetings.
          > >
          > > I would like to ask information to know what Marvel
          > > comic presented
          > > the battle with the Marvel Universe against the
          > > Living Monolith? the
          > > one with the origin, the claim to the Egyptian
          > > throne, the absorption
          > > of cosmic powers from the Fantastic Four, the
          > > increase in size, the
          > > rampage in New York, and Captain America's force
          > > stopping the chaos. I
          > > just remembered reading it from a friend when I was
          > > 6 and I want to
          > > buy those issues as a sentimental value.
          > >
          > > Thank you very much.
          > >
          > > I was wondering why comic industries seldom put
          > > trade paperbacks as
          > > much as all of them comics in years and put it on
          > > the most popular
          > > storyline only. The Marvel Essentials were good, so
          > > is DC comics
          > > presents, but because even i can't find this
          > > storyline mentioned
          > > above, i was just worried they just choose popular
          > > ones. Before, it
          > > wasn't that way. I buy even some old Spiderman or
          > > Transformers or
          > > All-Star Comics mini-comics since, but they never
          > > reprint it on
          > > selected storylines, just continuous issues.
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > SPONSORED LINKS
          > > Comic book Comic book store Selling
          > > comic book Comic book artist Comic book cover
          > > Comic book for sale
          > >
          > > ---------------------------------
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          > >
          > >
          > > Visit your group "comic_books" on the web.
          > >
          > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
          > > to:
          > > comic_books-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > >
          > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
          > > Yahoo! Terms of Service.
          > >
          > >
          > > ---------------------------------
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > ---------------------------------
          > > Brings words and photos together (easily) with
          > > PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.
          >
          > __________________________________________________
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          > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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        • desmond mcquilkin
          i agree with you on, say the dark phoenix saga. but a book like the dark knight is complete as is. all you have to know are the ke players and even non-comic
          Message 4 of 9 , Feb 7, 2006
          • 0 Attachment
            i agree with you on, say the dark phoenix saga. but a book like the dark knight is complete as is. all you have to know are the ke players and even non-comic readers know batman, robin, the joker, catwoman, etc... thanx to the tv show from the 60's and the last few movies since '89.
            But think of this you don't have to have read a james bond book or seen any previous movies to understand what's going on. james bond is a british secret agent w/fantastic gasdgets saving the world from the newest villain. the x-men are mutant superheroes saving the world from militant mutant super villains. take away the costumes and powers and make it into something real. the "x-men" are blacks/muslims/arabs/"tree huggers" trying to save the world from militant blacks/muslims/arabs/"tree huggers".
            i think if they thought to the root of the stories/characters instead of the make-uo and special fx they could do some great things that could stand the test of time.

            Mark Hershberger <mlhershb2@...> wrote:
            Hello,
            This is my first time contributing. I'm afraid I'm
            going to have to respectfully disagree with Desmond's
            assertions. Filmmakers feel it necessary to start from
            the beginning to tell the story because otherwise he
            storytelling would be incoherent. Its relatively easy
            to pick up from a comic book because characters
            constantly talk and think in exposition to re-explain
            things to readers.  And the discussion in the letters
            page usually helps fill in on some info too. The Dark
            Phoenix saga only works because the history of the
            characters informs the reader in the tragedy and the
            loss of Jean Grey's death. The Dark Knight Returns
            only works because we know who everyone is. The book
            itself doesn't tell us much about the peripheral
            characters in the story. Only after reading it a
            couple times did I catch the references to Green
            Arrow, Green Lantern, Celina Kyle, and so forth.
            Anyway I always thought the storytelling in the X-Men
            movies was consistent with the comic. Stories always
            start in the middle of something else going on,
            character arcs are left unresolved, and Professor X
            gets taken out too easily. But that's just my opinion.
            As for Architect, I can't help you either. I don't
            know what issues that story takes place in. Sounds
            like a fun story though. And I have no idea what their
            decision making process is as as what to reprint. I
            guess they have to maintain a balance between new and
            old and sometimes good stories get lost along the way.
            Mark Hershberger


            --- desmond mcquilkin <kid_zombie@...> wrote:

            > in a similar note, i wonder why movie studios feel
            > they must begin a super hero movie with the orign
            > and then pick and choose characters and situations
            > from 40+ years of comix history, add the arch
            > villain and then go from their. i think a good movie
            > could be made from any tpb or story arch without
            > starting at the beginning or anything. why is their
            > no dark knight movie? wouldn't the x-men movie be
            > great if it was just the dark phoenix saga?
            >   i know what you're saying, "but how would the
            > audience know what was going on?"
            >   but how did we know what was going on in star wars
            > or any other adventure/sci-fi movie. you don't need
            > to know that much to enjoy the current story. i
            > started reading the x-men in 1982 in the middle of a
            > "Brood" storyline & i got up to speed w/o having to
            > go back to the orignial x-men or reading 1 issue of
            > the new mutants.
            >   as to why they don't reprint unpopular
            > storylines--that could be a potential waste of
            > money. isn't the industry doing poorly enough?
            > The Architect Formerly Known As Heero
            > <heero_yuy2@...> wrote:
            >   Greetings.
            >
            > I would like to ask information to know what Marvel
            > comic presented
            > the battle with the Marvel Universe against the
            > Living Monolith? the
            > one with the origin, the claim to the Egyptian
            > throne, the absorption
            > of cosmic powers from the Fantastic Four, the
            > increase in size, the
            > rampage in New York, and Captain America's force
            > stopping the chaos. I
            > just remembered reading it from a friend when I was
            > 6 and I want to
            > buy those issues as a sentimental value.
            >
            > Thank you very much.
            >
            > I was wondering why comic industries seldom put
            > trade paperbacks as
            > much as all of them comics in years and put it on
            > the most popular
            > storyline only. The Marvel Essentials were good, so
            > is DC comics
            > presents, but because even i can't find this
            > storyline mentioned
            > above, i was just worried they just choose popular
            > ones. Before, it
            > wasn't that way. I buy even some old Spiderman or
            > Transformers or
            > All-Star Comics mini-comics since, but they never
            > reprint it on
            > selected storylines, just continuous issues.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >   SPONSORED LINKS
            >         Comic book   Comic book store   Selling
            > comic book     Comic book artist   Comic book cover
            >  Comic book for sale
            >    
            > ---------------------------------
            >   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
            >
            >    
            >     Visit your group "comic_books" on the web.
            >    
            >     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
            > to:
            >  comic_books-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >    
            >     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
            > Yahoo! Terms of Service.
            >
            >    
            > ---------------------------------
            >  
            >
            >
            >
            >            
            > ---------------------------------
            > Brings words and photos together (easily) with
            >  PhotoMail  - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.

            __________________________________________________
            Do You Yahoo!?
            Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
            http://mail.yahoo.com




            Brings words and photos together (easily) with
            PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.

          • Mark Hershberger
            Desmond, Your take on the Dark Knight Returns makes my point. It still requires a basic familiarity with the characters to get it. It also breaks with then
            Message 5 of 9 , Feb 7, 2006
            • 0 Attachment
              Desmond,
              Your take on the Dark Knight Returns makes my point. It still requires a basic familiarity with the characters to get it. It also breaks with then established takes on the characters and Frank Miller still had to explain things to ground the reader. Also the '89 movie had to establish a break with the TV show so viewers wouldn't think it was supposed to be silly. Then Batman Begins starts from scratch and tells you where Batman came from because the earlier ones weren't interested. The X-Men does work as an analogy to the struggle against racism and intolerance but you still need scenes like Iceman's "coming out" in X-Men 2 to hit the nail on the head.
              I agree you don't have to read James Bond novels to get the movies. But the James Bond movies don't tell a continuous story and, except for the early ones, only loosely resemble Ian Fleming's stories. Since Goldfinger, most Bond movies recycle the same formula with the right amount of exposition so the new viewer is not lost. The only time you really need to know Bond's history are references to his marriage, and its not mandatory, it only gives those moments a little more depth.
              I take your point with filmmakers going to the root of the characters, which I think also is my point. You have to distill a lot of history into a coherent movie that hopefully establishes a good franchise. And by telling the origin story you're grounding the viewer and setting up a solid foundation for good storytelling. The Batman franchise was doomed to fall apart because it started with a movie that had a weak story that wasn't interested in Batman's mythology, which necessitated something like Batman Begins. Filmmakers also have to consider the make up and special effects but without being driven by them. Hellboy is fx heavy but it has soul largely because of director Guiermo Del Toro's thoughtfulness.
              Maybe we should agree to disagree in certain points. However, I think we have more to agree on than disagree.
              Speaking of Bond, did you hear about Die Another Day director Lee Tamahorie getting arrested for propositioning an undercover cop? You don't see that every day.
              Mark Hershberger

              desmond mcquilkin <kid_zombie@...> wrote:
              i agree with you on, say the dark phoenix saga. but a book like the dark knight is complete as is. all you have to know are the ke players and even non-comic readers know batman, robin, the joker, catwoman, etc... thanx to the tv show from the 60's and the last few movies since '89.
              But think of this you don't have to have read a james bond book or seen any previous movies to understand what's going on. james bond is a british secret agent w/fantastic gasdgets saving the world from the newest villain. the x-men are mutant superheroes saving the world from militant mutant super villains. take away the costumes and powers and make it into something real. the "x-men" are blacks/muslims/arabs/"tree huggers" trying to save the world from militant blacks/muslims/arabs/"tree huggers".
              i think if they thought to the root of the stories/characters instead of the make-uo and special fx they could do some great things that could stand the test of time.

              Mark Hershberger <mlhershb2@...> wrote:
              Hello,
              This is my first time contributing. I'm afraid I'm
              going to have to respectfully disagree with Desmond's
              assertions. Filmmakers feel it necessary to start from
              the beginning to tell the story because otherwise he
              storytelling would be incoherent. Its relatively easy
              to pick up from a comic book because characters
              constantly talk and think in exposition to re-explain
              things to readers.  And the discussion in the letters
              page usually helps fill in on some info too. The Dark
              Phoenix saga only works because the history of the
              characters informs the reader in the tragedy and the
              loss of Jean Grey's death. The Dark Knight Returns
              only works because we know who everyone is. The book
              itself doesn't tell us much about the peripheral
              characters in the story. Only after reading it a
              couple times did I catch the references to Green
              Arrow, Green Lantern, Celina Kyle, and so forth.
              Anyway I always thought the storytelling in the X-Men
              movies was consistent with the comic. Stories always
              start in the middle of something else going on,
              character arcs are left unresolved, and Professor X
              gets taken out too easily. But that's just my opinion.
              As for Architect, I can't help you either. I don't
              know what issues that story takes place in. Sounds
              like a fun story though. And I have no idea what their
              decision making process is as as what to reprint. I
              guess they have to maintain a balance between new and
              old and sometimes good stories get lost along the way.
              Mark Hershberger


              --- desmond mcquilkin <kid_zombie@...> wrote:

              > in a similar note, i wonder why movie studios feel
              > they must begin a super hero movie with the orign
              > and then pick and choose characters and situations
              > from 40+ years of comix history, add the arch
              > villain and then go from their. i think a good movie
              > could be made from any tpb or story arch without
              > starting at the beginning or anything. why is their
              > no dark knight movie? wouldn't the x-men movie be
              > great if it was just the dark phoenix saga?
              >   i know what you're saying, "but how would the
              > audience know what was going on?"
              >   but how did we know what was going on in star wars
              > or any other adventure/sci-fi movie. you don't need
              > to know that much to enjoy the current story. i
              > started reading the x-men in 1982 in the middle of a
              > "Brood" storyline & i got up to speed w/o having to
              > go back to the orignial x-men or reading 1 issue of
              > the new mutants.
              >   as to why they don't reprint unpopular
              > storylines--that could be a potential waste of
              > money. isn't the industry doing poorly enough?
              > The Architect Formerly Known As Heero
              > <heero_yuy2@...> wrote:
              >   Greetings.
              >
              > I would like to ask information to know what Marvel
              > comic presented
              > the battle with the Marvel Universe against the
              > Living Monolith? the
              > one with the origin, the claim to the Egyptian
              > throne, the absorption
              > of cosmic powers from the Fantastic Four, the
              > increase in size, the
              > rampage in New York, and Captain America's force
              > stopping the chaos. I
              > just remembered reading it from a friend when I was
              > 6 and I want to
              > buy those issues as a sentimental value.
              >
              > Thank you very much.
              >
              > I was wondering why comic industries seldom put
              > trade paperbacks as
              > much as all of them comics in years and put it on
              > the most popular
              > storyline only. The Marvel Essentials were good, so
              > is DC comics
              > presents, but because even i can't find this
              > storyline mentioned
              > above, i was just worried they just choose popular
              > ones. Before, it
              > wasn't that way. I buy even some old Spiderman or
              > Transformers or
              > All-Star Comics mini-comics since, but they never
              > reprint it on
              > selected storylines, just continuous issues.
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >   SPONSORED LINKS
              >         Comic book   Comic book store   Selling
              > comic book     Comic book artist   Comic book cover
              >  Comic book for sale
              >    
              > ---------------------------------
              >   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
              >
              >    
              >     Visit your group "comic_books" on the web.
              >    
              >     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
              > to:
              >  comic_books-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >    
              >     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
              > Yahoo! Terms of Service.
              >
              >    
              > ---------------------------------
              >  
              >
              >
              >
              >            
              > ---------------------------------
              > Brings words and photos together (easily) with
              >  PhotoMail  - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.

              __________________________________________________
              Do You Yahoo!?
              Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
              http://mail.yahoo.com




              Brings words and photos together (easily) with
              PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.


              Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.

            • The Architect Formerly Known As Heero
              Haha! It was pencilled by Mark Silvestri! And you gotta love Monolith destroying that 9/11 tower! Haha! Thank you very much!...Now about what issues were they?
              Message 6 of 9 , Feb 12, 2006
              • 0 Attachment
                Haha! It was pencilled by Mark Silvestri! And you gotta love Monolith
                destroying that 9/11 tower! Haha! Thank you very much!...Now about
                what issues were they?




                --- In comic_books@yahoogroups.com, RussLee74@... wrote:
                >
                > It sounds like you're talking about the Revenge of the Living
                Monolith graphic novel. I don't know if Marvel ever reprinted it, but
                this is what it looked like
                >
                >
                http://www.comiccovers.com/comiccovers-280/Revenge%20Of%20The%20Living%20Monolith%20%5BMarvel%5D%20OS1/0001.jpg
                >
                > Russ
                >
                > > I would like to ask information to know what Marvel comic presented
                > > the battle with the Marvel Universe against the Living Monolith? the
                > > one with the origin, the claim to the Egyptian throne, the absorption
                > > of cosmic powers from the Fantastic Four, the increase in size, the
                > > rampage in New York, and Captain America's force stopping the chaos. I
                > > just remembered reading it from a friend when I was 6 and I want to
                > > buy those issues as a sentimental value.
                > >
                > > Thank you very much.
                > >
                > > I was wondering why comic industries seldom put trade paperbacks as
                > > much as all of them comics in years and put it on the most popular
                > > storyline only. The Marvel Essentials were good, so is DC comics
                > > presents, but because even i can't find this storyline mentioned
                > > above, i was just worried they just choose popular ones. Before, it
                > > wasn't that way. I buy even some old Spiderman or Transformers or
                > > All-Star Comics mini-comics since, but they never reprint it on
                > > selected storylines, just continuous issues.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                ________________________________________________________________________
                > >
                ________________________________________________________________________
                > >
                > > Message: 9
                > > Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2006 22:42:41 -0500
                > > From: "Neet-O-Rama" <neetstuff@...>
                > > Subject: Very Vintage Underground Comix: Corben, Crumb, Spain 1st more
                > >
                > > Very Vintage Underground Comix: Corben, Crumb, Spain 1st more
                > >
                > > I thought you might like to know that I'm purging more of my personal
                > > underground comix collection including many rare 1968 and up
                VINTAGE Underground
                > > comix many with very early work by R. Crumb, S. Clay Williams,
                SPAIN, Robt.
                > > Williams, RICH CORBEN, etc. This material is on ebay if you are
                interested
                > > please check out our listing at:
                > >
                > > http://tinyurl.com/8wp24 we're only about 1/2 way through this
                batch so keep
                > > watching....
                > >
                > > You will also find many many UG comix at current cover price (for
                some reason
                > > some people think that UG comix haven't been published since the
                Summer of Love
                > > and have been exploiting and overcharging people ever since!)
                anyway.....
                > >
                > > ....Thanks for any interest
                > > Sasha
                > > QualityComicsAmerica
                > > www.neetorama.com unbelievable amount of stuff at the home site
                > >
                > > [This message contained attachments]
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                ________________________________________________________________________
                > >
                ________________________________________________________________________
                > >
                > > Message: 10
                > > Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 10:20:17 -0800 (PST)
                > > From: desmond mcquilkin <kid_zombie@...>
                > > Subject: Re: Would like to ask info on a comic book storyline...
                > >
                > > in a similar note, i wonder why movie studios feel they must begin
                a super hero
                > > movie with the orign and then pick and choose characters and
                situations from 40+
                > > years of comix history, add the arch villain and then go from
                their. i think a
                > > good movie could be made from any tpb or story arch without
                starting at the
                > > beginning or anything. why is their no dark knight movie? wouldn't
                the x-men
                > > movie be great if it was just the dark phoenix saga?
                > > i know what you're saying, "but how would the audience know what
                was going
                > > on?"
                > > but how did we know what was going on in star wars or any other
                > > adventure/sci-fi movie. you don't need to know that much to enjoy
                the current
                > > story. i started reading the x-men in 1982 in the middle of a
                "Brood" storyline
                > > & i got up to speed w/o having to go back to the orignial x-men or
                reading 1
                > > issue of the new mutants.
                > > as to why they don't reprint unpopular storylines--that could be
                a potential
                > > waste of money. isn't the industry doing poorly enough?
                > > The Architect Formerly Known As Heero <heero_yuy2@...> wrote:
                > > Greetings.
                > >
                > > I would like to ask information to know what Marvel comic presented
                > > the battle with the Marvel Universe against the Living Monolith? the
                > > one with the origin, the claim to the Egyptian throne, the absorption
                > > of cosmic powers from the Fantastic Four, the increase in size, the
                > > rampage in New York, and Captain America's force stopping the chaos. I
                > > just remembered reading it from a friend when I was 6 and I want to
                > > buy those issues as a sentimental value.
                > >
                > > Thank you very much.
                > >
                > > I was wondering why comic industries seldom put trade paperbacks as
                > > much as all of them comics in years and put it on the most popular
                > > storyline only. The Marvel Essentials were good, so is DC comics
                > > presents, but because even i can't find this storyline mentioned
                > > above, i was just worried they just choose popular ones. Before, it
                > > wasn't that way. I buy even some old Spiderman or Transformers or
                > > All-Star Comics mini-comics since, but they never reprint it on
                > > selected storylines, just continuous issues.
                > >
                > >
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                > > [This message contained attachments]
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                > >
                > > Message: 11
                > > Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 19:49:13 -0000
                > > From: "lcentor" <larry@...>
                > > Subject: INVADERS TV SERIES...
                > >
                > > THE INVADERS 1-4'The Vanishing Mountain,' [Fine+/6.5] 'The Orbit of
                > > Doom,' [VF/8.0]
                > > 'The Moon-Tilters' [VF+/8.5] & 'The Doomsday Window' [VF+/8.5]
                > > [Complete run/All with photo covers]
                > >
                > > [Gold Key/1967] ... $160.00
                > >
                > > This is the entire run of the TV series starring Roy Thinnes.
                > > It is priced at approximately 70% of 'Guide.'
                > >
                > >
                > > --
                > > Visit us at: http://www.centormedia.com/SETS.HTM
                > > <http://www.centormedia.com/SETS.HTM>
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > [This message contained attachments]
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                > >
                > >
                ________________________________________________________________________
                > >
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                > >
                > > Message: 12
                > > Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 20:05:54 -0000
                > > From: "John Callie Bailey" <jcbailey111@...>
                > > Subject: cheap comics on ebay silver age giant size x men # 1 and more
                > >
                > > http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZetsujbQQhtZ-1
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                ________________________________________________________________________
                > >
                ________________________________________________________________________
                > >
                > > Message: 13
                > > Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 22:03:59 -0000
                > > From: "Gordon" <draclock@...>
                > > Subject: Next Week's Shipping List, Our Weekly Sale & Much More!
                > >
                > > 25% OFF COLLECTIBLE MINIATURE GAMES!
                > > ----------------------------------------------------------
                > >
                > > The Sale Begins, Wednesday February 8th, and Ends, Tuesday
                > > February 14th!
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                > > Items! Must Be The Same Price or Less
                > >
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                > >
                > > http://www.legendsinteractive.com
                > >
                > > ----------------------------------------------------------
                > > Comic Books Shipping WEDNESDAY February 15th!
                > > ----------------------------------------------------------
                > >
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                > > ULTIMATE FANTASTIC FOUR #27 $2.50
                > > ULTIMATE X-MEN VOL 13 MAGNETIC NORTH TP $12.99
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                > >
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                > > WIZARD ANIME INSIDER GUNDAM SEED DESTINY CVR #30 $5.99
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                > >
                > > A G SUPER EROTIC ANTHOLOGY #28 (A) $4.99
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                > > EXALTED #3 POWER FOIL CVR ED $12.50
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                > > NEON GENESIS EVANGELION VOL 1 2ND ED TP $9.95
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                > > REVOLUTION ON THE PLANET OF THE APES #2 (OF 6) $3.98
                > > SIMPSONS COMICS #115 $2.99
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                > > TRUE STORY SWEAR TO GOD #16 (PP #691) $2.95
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                > > AVP 12 IN SCAR PREDATOR AF
                > > CIPHER VOL 2
                > > ESSENTIAL PETER PARKER THE SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN
                > > FLASH ROGUE WAR TP
                > > FROM EROICA WITH LOVE VOL 6
                > > HOUSE OF M FANTASTIC FOUR IRON MAN TP
                > > HOUSE OF M UNCANNY X-MEN TP
                > > JLA VOL 18 CRISIS OF CONSCIENCE TP
                > > MARVEL MONSTERS HC
                > > MUSASHI #9 VOL 6
                > > NEW AVENGERS VOL 2 SENTRY PREMIERE HC
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                > > PUNISHER MAX VOL 2 HC
                > > SECRET WARS TP
                > > SHOWCASE PRESENTS HOUSE OF MYSTERY VOL 1 TP
                > > SIN CITY GIRLS B&W AF 5-PK
                > > SPIDER-MAN VS SILVER SABLE VOL 1 TP
                > > STAR WARS EMPIRE VOL 5 TP
                > > STAR WARS THE COMICS COMPANION TP
                > > TEEN TITANS OUTSIDERS DEATH AND RETURN OF DONNA TROY TP
                > > TEEN TITANS OUTSIDERS INSIDERS TP
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                > > WITCHBLADE VOL 10 WITCH HUNT TP
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                > > GREEN LANTERN PASSING THE TORCH TP $6
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                > > $3.00
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                ________________________________________________________________________
                > >
                ________________________________________________________________________
                > >
                > > Message: 14
                > > Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2006 00:08:23 -0000
                > > From: "Ryan" <kcbuff8@...>
                > > Subject: For Sale: X-MEN: Rise of Apocalypse Limited Series Full Run
                > >
                > > Rise of Apocalypse. Limited Series. Issues 1-4. Full Run. Very
                good condition.
                > >
                > > http://cm.ebay.com/cm/ck/1065-29296-2357-0?
                > > uid=140709163&site=0&ver=LCA080805&item=6603444479&lk=URL
                > >
                > >
                > >
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                > >
                ________________________________________________________________________
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                ________________________________________________________________________
                > >
                > > Message: 15
                > > Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 16:03:27 -0800 (PST)
                > > From: Mark Hershberger <mlhershb2@...>
                > > Subject: Re: Would like to ask info on a comic book storyline...
                > >
                > > Hello,
                > > This is my first time contributing. I'm afraid I'm
                > > going to have to respectfully disagree with Desmond's
                > > assertions. Filmmakers feel it necessary to start from
                > > the beginning to tell the story because otherwise he
                > > storytelling would be incoherent. Its relatively easy
                > > to pick up from a comic book because characters
                > > constantly talk and think in exposition to re-explain
                > > things to readers. And the discussion in the letters
                > > page usually helps fill in on some info too. The Dark
                > > Phoenix saga only works because the history of the
                > > characters informs the reader in the tragedy and the
                > > loss of Jean Grey's death. The Dark Knight Returns
                > > only works because we know who everyone is. The book
                > > itself doesn't tell us much about the peripheral
                > > characters in the story. Only after reading it a
                > > couple times did I catch the references to Green
                > > Arrow, Green Lantern, Celina Kyle, and so forth.
                > > Anyway I always thought the storytelling in the X-Men
                > > movies was consistent with the comic. Stories always
                > > start in the middle of something else going on,
                > > character arcs are left unresolved, and Professor X
                > > gets taken out too easily. But that's just my opinion.
                > > As for Architect, I can't help you either. I don't
                > > know what issues that story takes place in. Sounds
                > > like a fun story though. And I have no idea what their
                > > decision making process is as as what to reprint. I
                > > guess they have to maintain a balance between new and
                > > old and sometimes good stories get lost along the way.
                > > Mark Hershberger
                > >
                > >
                > > --- desmond mcquilkin <kid_zombie@...> wrote:
                > >
                > > > in a similar note, i wonder why movie studios feel
                > > > they must begin a super hero movie with the orign
                > > > and then pick and choose characters and situations
                > > > from 40+ years of comix history, add the arch
                > > > villain and then go from their. i think a good movie
                > > > could be made from any tpb or story arch without
                > > > starting at the beginning or anything. why is their
                > > > no dark knight movie? wouldn't the x-men movie be
                > > > great if it was just the dark phoenix saga?
                > > > i know what you're saying, "but how would the
                > > > audience know what was going on?"
                > > > but how did we know what was going on in star wars
                > > > or any other adventure/sci-fi movie. you don't need
                > > > to know that much to enjoy the current story. i
                > > > started reading the x-men in 1982 in the middle of a
                > > > "Brood" storyline & i got up to speed w/o having to
                > > > go back to the orignial x-men or reading 1 issue of
                > > > the new mutants.
                > > > as to why they don't reprint unpopular
                > > > storylines--that could be a potential waste of
                > > > money. isn't the industry doing poorly enough?
                > > > The Architect Formerly Known As Heero
                > > > <heero_yuy2@...> wrote:
                > > > Greetings.
                > > >
                > > > I would like to ask information to know what Marvel
                > > > comic presented
                > > > the battle with the Marvel Universe against the
                > > > Living Monolith? the
                > > > one with the origin, the claim to the Egyptian
                > > > throne, the absorption
                > > > of cosmic powers from the Fantastic Four, the
                > > > increase in size, the
                > > > rampage in New York, and Captain America's force
                > > > stopping the chaos. I
                > > > just remembered reading it from a friend when I was
                > > > 6 and I want to
                > > > buy those issues as a sentimental value.
                > > >
                > > > Thank you very much.
                > > >
                > > > I was wondering why comic industries seldom put
                > > > trade paperbacks as
                > > > much as all of them comics in years and put it on
                > > > the most popular
                > > > storyline only. The Marvel Essentials were good, so
                > > > is DC comics
                > > > presents, but because even i can't find this
                > > > storyline mentioned
                > > > above, i was just worried they just choose popular
                > > > ones. Before, it
                > > > wasn't that way. I buy even some old Spiderman or
                > > > Transformers or
                > > > All-Star Comics mini-comics since, but they never
                > > > reprint it on
                > > > selected storylines, just continuous issues.
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
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              • desmond mcquilkin
                did i misread that, or was HE playing the part of the hooker? Mark Hershberger wrote: Desmond, Your take on the Dark Knight Returns
                Message 7 of 9 , Feb 13, 2006
                • 0 Attachment
                  did i misread that, or was HE  playing the part of the hooker?

                  Mark Hershberger <mlhershb2@...> wrote:
                  Desmond,
                  Your take on the Dark Knight Returns makes my point. It still requires a basic familiarity with the characters to get it. It also breaks with then established takes on the characters and Frank Miller still had to explain things to ground the reader. Also the '89 movie had to establish a break with the TV show so viewers wouldn't think it was supposed to be silly. Then Batman Begins starts from scratch and tells you where Batman came from because the earlier ones weren't interested. The X-Men does work as an analogy to the struggle against racism and intolerance but you still need scenes like Iceman's "coming out" in X-Men 2 to hit the nail on the head.
                  I agree you don't have to read James Bond novels to get the movies. But the James Bond movies don't tell a continuous story and, except for the early ones, only loosely resemble Ian Fleming's stories. Since Goldfinger, most Bond movies recycle the same formula with the right amount of exposition so the new viewer is not lost. The only time you really need to know Bond's history are references to his marriage, and its not mandatory, it only gives those moments a little more depth.
                  I take your point with filmmakers going to the root of the characters, which I think also is my point. You have to distill a lot of history into a coherent movie that hopefully establishes a good franchise. And by telling the origin story you're grounding the viewer and setting up a solid foundation for good storytelling. The Batman franchise was doomed to fall apart because it started with a movie that had a weak story that wasn't interested in Batman's mythology, which necessitated something like Batman Begins. Filmmakers also have to consider the make up and special effects but without being driven by them. Hellboy is fx heavy but it has soul largely because of director Guiermo Del Toro's thoughtfulness.
                  Maybe we should agree to disagree in certain points. However, I think we have more to agree on than disagree.
                  Speaking of Bond, did you hear about Die Another Day director Lee Tamahorie getting arrested for propositioning an undercover cop? You don't see that every day.
                  Mark Hershberger

                  desmond mcquilkin <kid_zombie@...> wrote:
                  i agree with you on, say the dark phoenix saga. but a book like the dark knight is complete as is. all you have to know are the ke players and even non-comic readers know batman, robin, the joker, catwoman, etc... thanx to the tv show from the 60's and the last few movies since '89.
                  But think of this you don't have to have read a james bond book or seen any previous movies to understand what's going on. james bond is a british secret agent w/fantastic gasdgets saving the world from the newest villain. the x-men are mutant superheroes saving the world from militant mutant super villains. take away the costumes and powers and make it into something real. the "x-men" are blacks/muslims/arabs/"tree huggers" trying to save the world from militant blacks/muslims/arabs/"tree huggers".
                  i think if they thought to the root of the stories/characters instead of the make-uo and special fx they could do some great things that could stand the test of time.

                  Mark Hershberger <mlhershb2@...> wrote:
                  Hello,
                  This is my first time contributing. I'm afraid I'm
                  going to have to respectfully disagree with Desmond's
                  assertions. Filmmakers feel it necessary to start from
                  the beginning to tell the story because otherwise he
                  storytelling would be incoherent. Its relatively easy
                  to pick up from a comic book because characters
                  constantly talk and think in exposition to re-explain
                  things to readers.  And the discussion in the letters
                  page usually helps fill in on some info too. The Dark
                  Phoenix saga only works because the history of the
                  characters informs the reader in the tragedy and the
                  loss of Jean Grey's death. The Dark Knight Returns
                  only works because we know who everyone is. The book
                  itself doesn't tell us much about the peripheral
                  characters in the story. Only after reading it a
                  couple times did I catch the references to Green
                  Arrow, Green Lantern, Celina Kyle, and so forth.
                  Anyway I always thought the storytelling in the X-Men
                  movies was consistent with the comic. Stories always
                  start in the middle of something else going on,
                  character arcs are left unresolved, and Professor X
                  gets taken out too easily. But that's just my opinion.
                  As for Architect, I can't help you either. I don't
                  know what issues that story takes place in. Sounds
                  like a fun story though. And I have no idea what their
                  decision making process is as as what to reprint. I
                  guess they have to maintain a balance between new and
                  old and sometimes good stories get lost along the way.
                  Mark Hershberger


                  --- desmond mcquilkin <kid_zombie@...> wrote:

                  > in a similar note, i wonder why movie studios feel
                  > they must begin a super hero movie with the orign
                  > and then pick and choose characters and situations
                  > from 40+ years of comix history, add the arch
                  > villain and then go from their. i think a good movie
                  > could be made from any tpb or story arch without
                  > starting at the beginning or anything. why is their
                  > no dark knight movie? wouldn't the x-men movie be
                  > great if it was just the dark phoenix saga?
                  >   i know what you're saying, "but how would the
                  > audience know what was going on?"
                  >   but how did we know what was going on in star wars
                  > or any other adventure/sci-fi movie. you don't need
                  > to know that much to enjoy the current story. i
                  > started reading the x-men in 1982 in the middle of a
                  > "Brood" storyline & i got up to speed w/o having to
                  > go back to the orignial x-men or reading 1 issue of
                  > the new mutants.
                  >   as to why they don't reprint unpopular
                  > storylines--that could be a potential waste of
                  > money. isn't the industry doing poorly enough?
                  > The Architect Formerly Known As Heero
                  > <heero_yuy2@...> wrote:
                  >   Greetings.
                  >
                  > I would like to ask information to know what Marvel
                  > comic presented
                  > the battle with the Marvel Universe against the
                  > Living Monolith? the
                  > one with the origin, the claim to the Egyptian
                  > throne, the absorption
                  > of cosmic powers from the Fantastic Four, the
                  > increase in size, the
                  > rampage in New York, and Captain America's force
                  > stopping the chaos. I
                  > just remembered reading it from a friend when I was
                  > 6 and I want to
                  > buy those issues as a sentimental value.
                  >
                  > Thank you very much.
                  >
                  > I was wondering why comic industries seldom put
                  > trade paperbacks as
                  > much as all of them comics in years and put it on
                  > the most popular
                  > storyline only. The Marvel Essentials were good, so
                  > is DC comics
                  > presents, but because even i can't find this
                  > storyline mentioned
                  > above, i was just worried they just choose popular
                  > ones. Before, it
                  > wasn't that way. I buy even some old Spiderman or
                  > Transformers or
                  > All-Star Comics mini-comics since, but they never
                  > reprint it on
                  > selected storylines, just continuous issues.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
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                • Mark Hershberger
                  No you read it right. Mark Hershberger desmond mcquilkin wrote: did i misread that, or was HE playing the part of the hooker? Mark
                  Message 8 of 9 , Feb 13, 2006
                  • 0 Attachment
                    No you read it right.
                    Mark Hershberger

                    desmond mcquilkin <kid_zombie@...> wrote:
                    did i misread that, or was HE  playing the part of the hooker?

                    Mark Hershberger <mlhershb2@...> wrote:
                    Desmond,
                    Your take on the Dark Knight Returns makes my point. It still requires a basic familiarity with the characters to get it. It also breaks with then established takes on the characters and Frank Miller still had to explain things to ground the reader. Also the '89 movie had to establish a break with the TV show so viewers wouldn't think it was supposed to be silly. Then Batman Begins starts from scratch and tells you where Batman came from because the earlier ones weren't interested. The X-Men does work as an analogy to the struggle against racism and intolerance but you still need scenes like Iceman's "coming out" in X-Men 2 to hit the nail on the head.
                    I agree you don't have to read James Bond novels to get the movies. But the James Bond movies don't tell a continuous story and, except for the early ones, only loosely resemble Ian Fleming's stories. Since Goldfinger, most Bond movies recycle the same formula with the right amount of exposition so the new viewer is not lost. The only time you really need to know Bond's history are references to his marriage, and its not mandatory, it only gives those moments a little more depth.
                    I take your point with filmmakers going to the root of the characters, which I think also is my point. You have to distill a lot of history into a coherent movie that hopefully establishes a good franchise. And by telling the origin story you're grounding the viewer and setting up a solid foundation for good storytelling. The Batman franchise was doomed to fall apart because it started with a movie that had a weak story that wasn't interested in Batman's mythology, which necessitated something like Batman Begins. Filmmakers also have to consider the make up and special effects but without being driven by them. Hellboy is fx heavy but it has soul largely because of director Guiermo Del Toro's thoughtfulness.
                    Maybe we should agree to disagree in certain points. However, I think we have more to agree on than disagree.
                    Speaking of Bond, did you hear about Die Another Day director Lee Tamahorie getting arrested for propositioning an undercover cop? You don't see that every day.
                    Mark Hershberger

                    desmond mcquilkin <kid_zombie@...> wrote:
                    i agree with you on, say the dark phoenix saga. but a book like the dark knight is complete as is. all you have to know are the ke players and even non-comic readers know batman, robin, the joker, catwoman, etc... thanx to the tv show from the 60's and the last few movies since '89.
                    But think of this you don't have to have read a james bond book or seen any previous movies to understand what's going on. james bond is a british secret agent w/fantastic gasdgets saving the world from the newest villain. the x-men are mutant superheroes saving the world from militant mutant super villains. take away the costumes and powers and make it into something real. the "x-men" are blacks/muslims/arabs/"tree huggers" trying to save the world from militant blacks/muslims/arabs/"tree huggers".
                    i think if they thought to the root of the stories/characters instead of the make-uo and special fx they could do some great things that could stand the test of time.

                    Mark Hershberger <mlhershb2@...> wrote:
                    Hello,
                    This is my first time contributing. I'm afraid I'm
                    going to have to respectfully disagree with Desmond's
                    assertions. Filmmakers feel it necessary to start from
                    the beginning to tell the story because otherwise he
                    storytelling would be incoherent. Its relatively easy
                    to pick up from a comic book because characters
                    constantly talk and think in exposition to re-explain
                    things to readers.  And the discussion in the letters
                    page usually helps fill in on some info too. The Dark
                    Phoenix saga only works because the history of the
                    characters informs the reader in the tragedy and the
                    loss of Jean Grey's death. The Dark Knight Returns
                    only works because we know who everyone is. The book
                    itself doesn't tell us much about the peripheral
                    characters in the story. Only after reading it a
                    couple times did I catch the references to Green
                    Arrow, Green Lantern, Celina Kyle, and so forth.
                    Anyway I always thought the storytelling in the X-Men
                    movies was consistent with the comic. Stories always
                    start in the middle of something else going on,
                    character arcs are left unresolved, and Professor X
                    gets taken out too easily. But that's just my opinion.
                    As for Architect, I can't help you either. I don't
                    know what issues that story takes place in. Sounds
                    like a fun story though. And I have no idea what their
                    decision making process is as as what to reprint. I
                    guess they have to maintain a balance between new and
                    old and sometimes good stories get lost along the way.
                    Mark Hershberger


                    --- desmond mcquilkin <kid_zombie@...> wrote:

                    > in a similar note, i wonder why movie studios feel
                    > they must begin a super hero movie with the orign
                    > and then pick and choose characters and situations
                    > from 40+ years of comix history, add the arch
                    > villain and then go from their. i think a good movie
                    > could be made from any tpb or story arch without
                    > starting at the beginning or anything. why is their
                    > no dark knight movie? wouldn't the x-men movie be
                    > great if it was just the dark phoenix saga?
                    >   i know what you're saying, "but how would the
                    > audience know what was going on?"
                    >   but how did we know what was going on in star wars
                    > or any other adventure/sci-fi movie. you don't need
                    > to know that much to enjoy the current story. i
                    > started reading the x-men in 1982 in the middle of a
                    > "Brood" storyline & i got up to speed w/o having to
                    > go back to the orignial x-men or reading 1 issue of
                    > the new mutants.
                    >   as to why they don't reprint unpopular
                    > storylines--that could be a potential waste of
                    > money. isn't the industry doing poorly enough?
                    > The Architect Formerly Known As Heero
                    > <heero_yuy2@...> wrote:
                    >   Greetings.
                    >
                    > I would like to ask information to know what Marvel
                    > comic presented
                    > the battle with the Marvel Universe against the
                    > Living Monolith? the
                    > one with the origin, the claim to the Egyptian
                    > throne, the absorption
                    > of cosmic powers from the Fantastic Four, the
                    > increase in size, the
                    > rampage in New York, and Captain America's force
                    > stopping the chaos. I
                    > just remembered reading it from a friend when I was
                    > 6 and I want to
                    > buy those issues as a sentimental value.
                    >
                    > Thank you very much.
                    >
                    > I was wondering why comic industries seldom put
                    > trade paperbacks as
                    > much as all of them comics in years and put it on
                    > the most popular
                    > storyline only. The Marvel Essentials were good, so
                    > is DC comics
                    > presents, but because even i can't find this
                    > storyline mentioned
                    > above, i was just worried they just choose popular
                    > ones. Before, it
                    > wasn't that way. I buy even some old Spiderman or
                    > Transformers or
                    > All-Star Comics mini-comics since, but they never
                    > reprint it on
                    > selected storylines, just continuous issues.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >   SPONSORED LINKS
                    >         Comic book   Comic book store   Selling
                    > comic book     Comic book artist   Comic book cover
                    >  Comic book for sale
                    >    
                    > ---------------------------------
                    >   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                    >
                    >    
                    >     Visit your group "comic_books" on the web.
                    >    
                    >     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
                    > to:
                    >  comic_books-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    >    
                    >     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
                    > Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                    >
                    >    
                    > ---------------------------------
                    >  
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >            
                    > ---------------------------------
                    > Brings words and photos together (easily) with
                    >  PhotoMail  - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.

                    __________________________________________________
                    Do You Yahoo!?
                    Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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                    Brings words and photos together (easily) with
                    PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.


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