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Re: [comets-ml] Re: C/2005 S2 (Skiff) --> T=2010 (obs. request)

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  • Maik Meyer
    Hi Terry and all, ... like this one? C/2005 S2 Perihelion 2008 Apr 30.449572 TT Constraint: e=1,i=80 Epoch 2005 Sep 30.0 TT = JDT 2453643.5
    Message 1 of 25 , Sep 30, 2005
    • 0 Attachment
      Hi Terry and all,

      > Ramon Naves just uploaded some new observations (hope he doesn't mind
      > me reproducing them here), i.e in MPEC format they would be.
      > Some very interesting solutions are possible at the moment, lets hope
      > more observations converge to a sun approaching scenario!

      like this one?

      C/2005 S2
      Perihelion 2008 Apr 30.449572 TT Constraint: e=1,i=80
      Epoch 2005 Sep 30.0 TT = JDT 2453643.5 Meyer
      q 0.078153 (2000.0) P Q
      H 4.3 Peri. 351.90224 -0.96962873 0.09805304
      Node 193.15127 -0.12963266 0.57082660
      e 1.0000000 Incl. 80.00000 -0.20740173 -0.81519481
      From 16 observations 2005 Sept. 25-30; RMS error 0.554 arcseconds

      DISCLAIMER: !!!!!!!!!!
      Although this orbit is possible analytically, it is almost certain that in reality
      the orbit will be quite different. It is just an illustration of how uncertain and
      indeterminate all solutions are at this point.

      Cheers, Maik
      --
      If they give you ruled paper, write the other way. * Juan Ramon Jimenez
      ________________________________________________________________________
      maik@... http://www.comethunter.de
      German Comet Section http://www.fg-kometen.de
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/comets-ml
    • "Sebastian F. Hönig"
      Hello together, ... (snip) Maik, I don t know why you are constaining the inclination. With the 213 observations and privately communicated observations from
      Message 2 of 25 , Oct 1, 2005
      • 0 Attachment
        Hello together,

        > Perihelion 2008 Apr 30.449572 TT Constraint: e=1,i=80
        > DISCLAIMER: !!!!!!!!!!
        (snip)

        Maik, I don't know why you are constaining the inclination. With the 213
        observations and privately communicated observations from Juan Lacruz
        the orbit gets quite stable in most elements. Although the inclination
        still varies with the included observations, I conclude:

        * The time of perihelion is between Feb and May 2008

        * The absolute magnitude from CCD is between 4.5 and 5.5

        * The orbit is prograde with inclination between 15deg and 75deg. Most
        likely, i is between 17deg and 45deg

        * The perihelion distance is between 0.08 and 0.55 AU. Most likely it is
        around 0.13 and 0.35 AU.

        * The Argument of Perihelion is between 335deg and 355deg. Most likely
        it between 343 and 351 with a tendency to higher values.

        * The Ascending Node is very close and stable at 193deg.

        As always more observations are requested (please let me know).

        Regards,
        Sebastian

        --
        ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        Sebastian F. Hoenig
        Max-Planck-Institut fuer Radioastronomie
        Auf dem Huegel 69
        53121 Bonn
        Germany
        Phone +49 (0) 228 525 188
        Fax +49 (0) 228 525 437
        ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      • Juan Lacruz
        I ve also followed it, below is the astrometry, photometry is nothing to do with that from Ramon, he uses USNOA2 and I did it with UCAC2. Regards, Juan COD J87
        Message 3 of 25 , Oct 1, 2005
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          I've also followed it, below is the astrometry, photometry is nothing to do with that from Ramon, he uses USNOA2 and I did it with UCAC2.



          Regards,

          Juan



          COD J87

          OBS J. Lacruz

          MEA J. Lacruz

          TEL 0.30-m Schmidt-Cassegrain + CCD

          ACK MPCReport file updated 2005.09.30 21:19:42

          AC2 juan_lacruz@...

          NET UCAC-2

          CK05S020 C2005 09 30.86819 00 54 50.51 +03 44 32.2 20.5 N J87

          CK05S020 C2005 09 30.87506 00 54 50.34 +03 44 31.4 20.2 N J87

          CK05S020 C2005 09 30.88007 00 54 50.22 +03 44 30.7 19.8 N J87

          ----- end -----


          Terry Lovejoy <lovejoyt@...> wrote:Ramon Naves just uploaded some new observations (hope he doesn't mind
          me reproducing them here), i.e in MPEC format they would be.

          CK05S020 C2005 09 30.97912 00 54 48.02 +03 44 13.8 19.3 N
          ES078213
          CK05S020 C2005 09 30.98097 00 54 47.99 +03 44 13.9 19.3 N
          ES078213
          CK05S020 C2005 09 30.98281 00 54 47.95 +03 44 13.7 19.3 N
          ES078213
          CK05S020 C2005 09 30.98657 00 54 47.88 +03 44 13.1 19.3 N
          ES078213
          CK05S020 C2005 09 30.99037 00 54 47.79 +03 44 12.6 19.3 N
          ES078213

          Some very interesting solutions are possible at the moment, lets hope
          more observations converge to a sun approaching scenario!

          Terry




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        • Maik Meyer
          Hi Seb, ... I have just taken one out of these large ranges you have concluded to have a small value for q, in order to excite everybody.. ;) Cheers, Maik --
          Message 4 of 25 , Oct 1, 2005
          • 0 Attachment
            Hi Seb,

            > Maik, I don't know why you are constaining the inclination. With the 213
            > observations and privately communicated observations from Juan Lacruz
            > the orbit gets quite stable in most elements. Although the inclination
            > still varies with the included observations, I conclude:

            I have just taken one out of these large ranges you have concluded to have a small
            value for q, in order to excite everybody.. ;)

            Cheers, Maik
            --
            If they give you ruled paper, write the other way. * Juan Ramon Jimenez
            ________________________________________________________________________
            maik@... http://www.comethunter.de
            German Comet Section http://www.fg-kometen.de
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/comets-ml
          • Maik Meyer
            Sebastian, ... really? The parabolic solution with new observations by Juan (and all 699 excluded) gives q = 1.8 AU. would not be so sure of your limits.
            Message 5 of 25 , Oct 1, 2005
            • 0 Attachment
              Sebastian,

              > the orbit gets quite stable in most elements. Although the inclination
              > still varies with the included observations, I conclude:

              > * The perihelion distance is between 0.08 and 0.55 AU. Most likely it is
              > around 0.13 and 0.35 AU.

              really?

              The parabolic solution with new observations by Juan (and all 699 excluded) gives
              q = 1.8 AU. would not be so sure of your limits.

              Cheers, Maik
              --
              If they give you ruled paper, write the other way. * Juan Ramon Jimenez
              ________________________________________________________________________
              maik@... http://www.comethunter.de
              German Comet Section http://www.fg-kometen.de
              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/comets-ml
            • "Sebastian F. Hönig"
              Maik, ... this is correct, although the dataset is significantly reduced when excluding all 699 observations (which naturally leads to higher scatter). At the
              Message 6 of 25 , Oct 1, 2005
              • 0 Attachment
                Maik,

                > The parabolic solution with new observations by Juan (and all 699 excluded) gives
                > q = 1.8 AU. would not be so sure of your limits.

                this is correct, although the dataset is significantly reduced when
                excluding all 699 observations (which naturally leads to higher scatter).

                At the end, let's wait for upcoming measurements.

                Sebastian


                --
                ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                Sebastian F. Hoenig
                Max-Planck-Institut fuer Radioastronomie
                Auf dem Huegel 69
                53121 Bonn
                Germany
                Phone +49 (0) 228 525 188
                Fax +49 (0) 228 525 437
                ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
              • Ramon Naves
                Additional observations suggest that the comet could be of intermediate period. Some possible solutions can be found in this url:
                Message 7 of 25 , Oct 1, 2005
                • 0 Attachment
                  "Additional observations suggest that the comet could be of intermediate period. Some possible solutions can be found in this url: "




                  http://astrosurf.com/comets/cometas/2005s2/Analysis/c2005s2.htm

                  http://astrosurf.com/comets/


                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "Juan Lacruz" <juan_lacruz@...>
                  To: <comets-ml@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2005 10:04 AM
                  Subject: Re: [comets-ml] Re: C/2005 S2 (Skiff) --> T=2010 (obs. request)


                  >
                  > I've also followed it, below is the astrometry, photometry is nothing to do with that from Ramon, he uses USNOA2 and I did it with UCAC2.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Regards,
                  >
                  > Juan
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > COD J87
                  >
                  > OBS J. Lacruz
                  >
                  > MEA J. Lacruz
                  >
                  > TEL 0.30-m Schmidt-Cassegrain + CCD
                  >
                  > ACK MPCReport file updated 2005.09.30 21:19:42
                  >
                  > AC2 juan_lacruz@...
                  >
                  > NET UCAC-2
                  >
                  > CK05S020 C2005 09 30.86819 00 54 50.51 +03 44 32.2 20.5 N J87
                  >
                  > CK05S020 C2005 09 30.87506 00 54 50.34 +03 44 31.4 20.2 N J87
                  >
                  > CK05S020 C2005 09 30.88007 00 54 50.22 +03 44 30.7 19.8 N J87
                  >
                  > ----- end -----
                  >
                  >
                  > Terry Lovejoy <lovejoyt@...> wrote:Ramon Naves just uploaded some new observations (hope he doesn't mind
                  > me reproducing them here), i.e in MPEC format they would be.
                  >
                  > CK05S020 C2005 09 30.97912 00 54 48.02 +03 44 13.8 19.3 N
                  > ES078213
                  > CK05S020 C2005 09 30.98097 00 54 47.99 +03 44 13.9 19.3 N
                  > ES078213
                  > CK05S020 C2005 09 30.98281 00 54 47.95 +03 44 13.7 19.3 N
                  > ES078213
                  > CK05S020 C2005 09 30.98657 00 54 47.88 +03 44 13.1 19.3 N
                  > ES078213
                  > CK05S020 C2005 09 30.99037 00 54 47.79 +03 44 12.6 19.3 N
                  > ES078213
                  >
                  > Some very interesting solutions are possible at the moment, lets hope
                  > more observations converge to a sun approaching scenario!
                  >
                  > Terry
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > NOTICE: Material quoted or re-posted from the Comets Mailing List should be indicated by:
                  >
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                  > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/comets-ml
                  >
                  >
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                  >
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                  >
                  > Visit your group "comets-ml" on the web.
                  >
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                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                  >
                  >
                  > ---------------------------------
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > http://www.astrosurf.com/juan_lacruz
                  > Eppur si muove (Galileo Galilei)
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ---------------------------------
                  > Yahoo! for Good
                  > Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > NOTICE: Material quoted or re-posted from the Comets Mailing List should be indicated by:
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                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Maik Meyer
                  Hi Ramon, ... I have rejected those solutions since the comet should have been discovered much, much earlier... unless it is now in a state of outburst.
                  Message 8 of 25 , Oct 1, 2005
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Hi Ramon,

                    > "Additional observations suggest that the comet could be of intermediate period. Some possible solutions can be found in this url: "
                    >
                    > http://astrosurf.com/comets/cometas/2005s2/Analysis/c2005s2.htm

                    I have rejected those solutions since the comet should have been discovered much,
                    much earlier... unless it is now in a state of outburst.

                    Cheers, Maik
                    --
                    If they give you ruled paper, write the other way. * Juan Ramon Jimenez
                    ________________________________________________________________________
                    maik@... http://www.comethunter.de
                    German Comet Section http://www.fg-kometen.de
                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/comets-ml
                  • Ramon Naves
                    ... Orbital elements: C/2005S2 Perihelion 2004 Nov 11.663463 TT Epoch 2005 Sep 27.0 TT = JDT 2453640.5 M 0.04362 (2000.0) P
                    Message 9 of 25 , Oct 1, 2005
                    • 0 Attachment
                      New additional observations , new orbital elements:
                      :-)

                      Orbital elements:
                      C/2005S2
                      Perihelion 2004 Nov 11.663463 TT
                      Epoch 2005 Sep 27.0 TT = JDT 2453640.5
                      M 0.04362 (2000.0) P Q
                      n 0.00013662 Peri. 181.01671 0.84703167 0.53113263
                      a 373.3486009 Node 146.87431 -0.48741071 0.79176964
                      e 0.9884352 Incl. 2.18842 -0.21205692 0.30166032
                      P7213.93 H 9.5 q 4.3176981
                      From 31 observations 2005 Sep. 25-Oct. 1; RMS error 0.748 arcseconds

                      Orbital elements:
                      C/2005S2
                      Perihelion 2004 Nov 14.511293 TT
                      Epoch 2005 Sep 27.0 TT = JDT 2453640.5
                      q 4.289944 (2000.0) P Q
                      H 9.5 Peri. 181.13065 0.84594486 0.53286092
                      Node 146.64349 -0.48896726 0.79070498
                      e 1.0 Incl. 2.17766 -0.21281048 0.30140481
                      From 31 observations 2005 Sep. 25-Oct. 1; RMS error 0.749 arcseconds






                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "Maik Meyer" <maik@...>
                      To: <comets-ml@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2005 2:37 PM
                      Subject: Re: [comets-ml] Re: C/2005 S2 (Skiff) --> T=2010 (obs. request)


                      > Hi Ramon,
                      >
                      >> "Additional observations suggest that the comet could be of intermediate
                      >> period. Some possible solutions can be found in this url: "
                      >>
                      >> http://astrosurf.com/comets/cometas/2005s2/Analysis/c2005s2.htm
                      >
                      > I have rejected those solutions since the comet should have been
                      > discovered much,
                      > much earlier... unless it is now in a state of outburst.
                      >
                      > Cheers, Maik
                      > --
                      > If they give you ruled paper, write the other way. * Juan Ramon Jimenez
                      > ________________________________________________________________________
                      > maik@... http://www.comethunter.de
                      > German Comet Section http://www.fg-kometen.de
                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/comets-ml
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > NOTICE: Material quoted or re-posted from the Comets Mailing List should
                      > be indicated by:
                      >
                      > Comets Mailing List [date]
                      > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/comets-ml
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >

                      ----------

                      Orbital elements:
                      C/2005S2
                      Perihelion 2004 Nov 14.511293 TT
                      Epoch 2005 Sep 27.0 TT = JDT 2453640.5
                      q 4.289944 (2000.0) P Q
                      H 9.5 Peri. 181.13065 0.84594486 0.53286092
                      Node 146.64349 -0.48896726 0.79070498
                      e 1.0 Incl. 2.17766 -0.21281048 0.30140481
                      From 31 observations 2005 Sep. 25-Oct. 1; RMS error 0.749 arcseconds


                      ----------

                      Orbital elements:
                      C/2005S2
                      Perihelion 2004 Nov 11.663463 TT
                      Epoch 2005 Sep 27.0 TT = JDT 2453640.5
                      M 0.04362 (2000.0) P Q
                      n 0.00013662 Peri. 181.01671 0.84703167 0.53113263
                      a 373.3486009 Node 146.87431 -0.48741071 0.79176964
                      e 0.9884352 Incl. 2.18842 -0.21205692 0.30166032
                      P7213.93 H 9.5 q 4.3176981
                      From 31 observations 2005 Sep. 25-Oct. 1; RMS error 0.748 arcseconds


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • "Sebastian F. Hönig"
                      Hello Ramon, ... Wow, seems like we have all been fooled. Thanks for the update. Regards, Sebastian -- ... Sebastian F. Hoenig Max-Planck-Institut fuer
                      Message 10 of 25 , Oct 1, 2005
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Hello Ramon,

                        Ramon Naves wrote:
                        > New additional observations , new orbital elements:
                        > :-)
                        >
                        > Orbital elements:
                        > C/2005S2
                        > Perihelion 2004 Nov 11.663463 TT
                        > Epoch 2005 Sep 27.0 TT = JDT 2453640.5
                        > M 0.04362 (2000.0) P Q
                        > n 0.00013662 Peri. 181.01671 0.84703167 0.53113263
                        > a 373.3486009 Node 146.87431 -0.48741071 0.79176964
                        > e 0.9884352 Incl. 2.18842 -0.21205692 0.30166032
                        > P7213.93 H 9.5 q 4.3176981
                        >>From 31 observations 2005 Sep. 25-Oct. 1; RMS error 0.748 arcseconds
                        >
                        > Orbital elements:
                        > C/2005S2
                        > Perihelion 2004 Nov 14.511293 TT
                        > Epoch 2005 Sep 27.0 TT = JDT 2453640.5
                        > q 4.289944 (2000.0) P Q
                        > H 9.5 Peri. 181.13065 0.84594486 0.53286092
                        > Node 146.64349 -0.48896726 0.79070498
                        > e 1.0 Incl. 2.17766 -0.21281048 0.30140481
                        >>From 31 observations 2005 Sep. 25-Oct. 1; RMS error 0.749 arcseconds
                        >

                        Wow, seems like we have all been fooled. Thanks for the update.

                        Regards,
                        Sebastian


                        --
                        ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        Sebastian F. Hoenig
                        Max-Planck-Institut fuer Radioastronomie
                        Auf dem Huegel 69
                        53121 Bonn
                        Germany
                        Phone +49 (0) 228 525 188
                        Fax +49 (0) 228 525 437
                        ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      • martin mc kenna
                        So whats the latest story on this comet....what will visual comet observers expect in the future? Thanks Martin Mc Kenna Ramon Naves
                        Message 11 of 25 , Oct 1, 2005
                        • 0 Attachment
                          So whats the latest story on this comet....what will visual comet observers expect in the future?

                          Thanks

                          Martin Mc Kenna

                          Ramon Naves <ramonnaves@...> wrote:
                          New additional observations , new orbital elements:
                          :-)

                          Orbital elements:
                          C/2005S2
                          Perihelion 2004 Nov 11.663463 TT
                          Epoch 2005 Sep 27.0 TT = JDT 2453640.5
                          M 0.04362 (2000.0) P Q
                          n 0.00013662 Peri. 181.01671 0.84703167 0.53113263
                          a 373.3486009 Node 146.87431 -0.48741071 0.79176964
                          e 0.9884352 Incl. 2.18842 -0.21205692 0.30166032
                          P7213.93 H 9.5 q 4.3176981
                          From 31 observations 2005 Sep. 25-Oct. 1; RMS error 0.748 arcseconds

                          Orbital elements:
                          C/2005S2
                          Perihelion 2004 Nov 14.511293 TT
                          Epoch 2005 Sep 27.0 TT = JDT 2453640.5
                          q 4.289944 (2000.0) P Q
                          H 9.5 Peri. 181.13065 0.84594486 0.53286092
                          Node 146.64349 -0.48896726 0.79070498
                          e 1.0 Incl. 2.17766 -0.21281048 0.30140481
                          From 31 observations 2005 Sep. 25-Oct. 1; RMS error 0.749 arcseconds






                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "Maik Meyer" <maik@...>
                          To: <comets-ml@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2005 2:37 PM
                          Subject: Re: [comets-ml] Re: C/2005 S2 (Skiff) --> T=2010 (obs. request)


                          > Hi Ramon,
                          >
                          >> "Additional observations suggest that the comet could be of intermediate
                          >> period. Some possible solutions can be found in this url: "
                          >>
                          >> http://astrosurf.com/comets/cometas/2005s2/Analysis/c2005s2.htm
                          >
                          > I have rejected those solutions since the comet should have been
                          > discovered much,
                          > much earlier... unless it is now in a state of outburst.
                          >
                          > Cheers, Maik
                          > --
                          > If they give you ruled paper, write the other way. * Juan Ramon Jimenez
                          > ________________________________________________________________________
                          > maik@... http://www.comethunter.de
                          > German Comet Section http://www.fg-kometen.de
                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/comets-ml
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > NOTICE: Material quoted or re-posted from the Comets Mailing List should
                          > be indicated by:
                          >
                          > Comets Mailing List [date]
                          > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/comets-ml
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >

                          ----------

                          Orbital elements:
                          C/2005S2
                          Perihelion 2004 Nov 14.511293 TT
                          Epoch 2005 Sep 27.0 TT = JDT 2453640.5
                          q 4.289944 (2000.0) P Q
                          H 9.5 Peri. 181.13065 0.84594486 0.53286092
                          Node 146.64349 -0.48896726 0.79070498
                          e 1.0 Incl. 2.17766 -0.21281048 0.30140481
                          From 31 observations 2005 Sep. 25-Oct. 1; RMS error 0.749 arcseconds


                          ----------

                          Orbital elements:
                          C/2005S2
                          Perihelion 2004 Nov 11.663463 TT
                          Epoch 2005 Sep 27.0 TT = JDT 2453640.5
                          M 0.04362 (2000.0) P Q
                          n 0.00013662 Peri. 181.01671 0.84703167 0.53113263
                          a 373.3486009 Node 146.87431 -0.48741071 0.79176964
                          e 0.9884352 Incl. 2.18842 -0.21205692 0.30166032
                          P7213.93 H 9.5 q 4.3176981
                          From 31 observations 2005 Sep. 25-Oct. 1; RMS error 0.748 arcseconds


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Terry Lovejoy
                          Nothing..it should fade from its current 19th Magnitude. Terry ... observers expect in the future?
                          Message 12 of 25 , Oct 1, 2005
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Nothing..it should fade from its current 19th Magnitude.

                            Terry
                            --- In comets-ml@yahoogroups.com, martin mc kenna
                            <martinastro2003@y...> wrote:
                            > So whats the latest story on this comet....what will visual comet
                            observers expect in the future?
                            >
                          • martin mc kenna
                            Thanks for that Terry! Martin Terry Lovejoy wrote: Nothing..it should fade from its current 19th Magnitude. Terry ... observers
                            Message 13 of 25 , Oct 1, 2005
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Thanks for that Terry!

                              Martin

                              Terry Lovejoy <lovejoyt@...> wrote:
                              Nothing..it should fade from its current 19th Magnitude.

                              Terry
                              --- In comets-ml@yahoogroups.com, martin mc kenna
                              <martinastro2003@y...> wrote:
                              > So whats the latest story on this comet....what will visual comet
                              observers expect in the future?
                              >





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                              ---------------------------------




                              ---------------------------------
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                            • Maik Meyer
                              Hi Ramon, ... yes, nice example how extremely indeterminate the orbit was. However, if the current solution holds (I guess it is of intermediate period) then
                              Message 14 of 25 , Oct 1, 2005
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                                Hi Ramon,

                                Am 1 Oct 2005 um 23:39 hat Ramon Naves geschrieben:

                                > New additional observations , new orbital elements:
                                > :-)

                                yes, nice example how extremely indeterminate the orbit was.

                                However, if the current solution holds (I guess it is of intermediate period) then
                                it is astonishing why it was missed by the surveys in summer 2004, when it was
                                even brighter at large elongations.

                                Cheers, Maik
                                --
                                If they give you ruled paper, write the other way. * Juan Ramon Jimenez
                                ________________________________________________________________________
                                maik@... http://www.comethunter.de
                                German Comet Section http://www.fg-kometen.de
                                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/comets-ml
                              • Juan Lacruz
                                Probably due to a too slow movement (about 0.1 /min in Aug 2004) to be detected by surveys. Juan Maik Meyer wrote: Hi Ramon, ... yes,
                                Message 15 of 25 , Oct 2, 2005
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                                  Probably due to a too slow movement (about 0.1 "/min in Aug 2004) to be detected by surveys.

                                  Juan

                                  Maik Meyer <maik@...> wrote:
                                  Hi Ramon,

                                  Am 1 Oct 2005 um 23:39 hat Ramon Naves geschrieben:

                                  > New additional observations , new orbital elements:
                                  > :-)

                                  yes, nice example how extremely indeterminate the orbit was.

                                  However, if the current solution holds (I guess it is of intermediate period) then
                                  it is astonishing why it was missed by the surveys in summer 2004, when it was
                                  even brighter at large elongations.

                                  Cheers, Maik
                                  --
                                  If they give you ruled paper, write the other way. * Juan Ramon Jimenez
                                  ________________________________________________________________________
                                  maik@... http://www.comethunter.de
                                  German Comet Section http://www.fg-kometen.de
                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/comets-ml


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                                • Johnson, Carey S. AT1
                                  Wow, these are exciting numbers. Perihelion distance q 3.29967 AU?! When I plug these into EasySky I get a maximum brightness for the comet at 2.6! That seems
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Oct 2, 2005
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                                    Wow, these are exciting numbers.
                                    Perihelion distance q 3.29967 AU?!

                                    When I plug these into EasySky I get a maximum brightness for the comet at 2.6!
                                    That seems amazing at 3AU from the Sun.
                                    Are you sure this is a Comet!

                                    I also noted that on 2009 April 13 it would be 1.2 AU from Jupiter.

                                    Carey

                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: comets-ml@yahoogroups.com [mailto:comets-ml@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of "Sebastian F. Hönig"
                                    Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2005 12:49 AM
                                    To: comets-ml@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: [comets-ml] C/2005 S2 (Skiff) --> T=2010

                                    Hello all,

                                    have a look at this one:

                                    http://cfa-www.harvard.edu/mpec/K05/K05S78.html

                                    C/2005 S2 (Skiff)
                                    T 2010 Feb. 12.081 TT MPC
                                    q 3.29967 (2000.0) P Q
                                    Peri. 306.165 -0.265588 -0.960488
                                    Node 201.227 -0.794176 +0.169023
                                    e 1.0 Incl. 166.711 -0.546578 +0.221121
                                    From 12 observations 2005 Sept. 25-30.

                                    This must be really a big guy!

                                    Sebastian

                                    --
                                    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                    Sebastian F. Hoenig
                                    Max-Planck-Institut fuer Radioastronomie
                                    Auf dem Huegel 69
                                    53121 Bonn
                                    Germany
                                    Phone +49 (0) 228 525 188
                                    Fax +49 (0) 228 525 437
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                                  • Adam Hurcewicz
                                    Hello. Ramon, could you write this new observations, here. We would like calculate orbit C/2005 S2 with this new astrometry data. Thank you. Adam ...
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Oct 2, 2005
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                                      Hello.

                                      Ramon, could you write this new observations, here.
                                      We would like calculate orbit C/2005 S2 with this new astrometry
                                      data.

                                      Thank you.
                                      Adam


                                      > Ramon Naves wrote:
                                      >
                                      > New additional observations , new orbital elements:
                                      > :-)
                                      >
                                      > Orbital elements:
                                      > C/2005S2
                                      > Perihelion 2004 Nov 11.663463 TT
                                      > Epoch 2005 Sep 27.0 TT = JDT 2453640.5
                                      > M 0.04362 (2000.0) P Q
                                      > n 0.00013662 Peri. 181.01671 0.84703167 0.53113263
                                      > a 373.3486009 Node 146.87431 -0.48741071 0.79176964
                                      > e 0.9884352 Incl. 2.18842 -0.21205692 0.30166032
                                      > P7213.93 H 9.5 q 4.3176981
                                      > From 31 observations 2005 Sep. 25-Oct. 1; RMS error 0.748
                                      arcseconds
                                      >
                                      > Orbital elements:
                                      > C/2005S2
                                      > Perihelion 2004 Nov 14.511293 TT
                                      > Epoch 2005 Sep 27.0 TT = JDT 2453640.5
                                      > q 4.289944 (2000.0) P Q
                                      > H 9.5 Peri. 181.13065 0.84594486 0.53286092
                                      > Node 146.64349 -0.48896726 0.79070498
                                      > e 1.0 Incl. 2.17766 -0.21281048 0.30140481
                                      > From 31 observations 2005 Sep. 25-Oct. 1; RMS error 0.749
                                      arcseconds
                                      >
                                      >
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