Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: [cp] Communities of Learning and the differences between Communities of Practice

Expand Messages
  • asif.devji
    Hi Nancy, Understood -- sometimes its a fine line between learning and practice, and the two feed each other in iterative loops -- I m less concerned with the
    Message 1 of 18 , May 25, 2010
      Hi Nancy,

      Understood -- sometimes its a fine line between learning and practice, and the two feed each other in iterative loops -- I'm less concerned with the labels than the contexts.

      That said, tip of the hat to Dan, for the subject line and for kicking off this discussion.

      My question is: What incentives for participation exist in the student context that don't exist in the organizational context, and further, to what extent can they be reproduced in the latter? (...and vice-versa)

      Asif



      --- In com-prac@yahoogroups.com, Nancy White <nancyw@...> wrote:
      >
      > I can't help but wonder if students in this "community" (oL/oP) just
      > have their practice domain slightly to the side of the experienced
      > professionals. Their practice is LEARNING TO BE (a lawyer in this
      > example). But there IS practice, no?
      >
      > (Realizing that the distinctions between forms can be as challenging
      > as they might be helpful and the value of the conversation for me is
      > to explore groups from the Community/Domain/Practice lens rather than
      > the lable we apply to the form. That's just me...)
      >
      > Nancy
      >
      > At 08:45 AM 5/19/2010, you wrote:
      > >Hi Dan,
      > >
      > >Fantastic examples bridging the two worlds.
      > >
      > >I think you've laid out the students' perspectives well, but what
      > >about the practitioners -- the experienced lawyers and health-care
      > >professionals:
      > >
      > >i) What's in it for them?
      > >
      > >ii) Could I argue that the students are in a CoL and the
      > >practitioners in a CoP?
      > >
      > >iii) Would such a community just among the practitioners work (ie.
      > >no students)? Would it work if they were all in a single org?
      > >
      > >The incentives for student participation are clear -- the
      > >learner/expert roles are pre-set, the experience is part of a wider
      > >formal learning curriculum, including evaluation. Not necessarily so
      > >for the practitioners.
      > >
      > >In a previous discussion Peter Stoyko laid out some conditions for
      > >large-org CoP success:
      > >
      > >a) high tolerance for disagreement
      > >b) well-supported professional/ learning networks
      > >c) organizational knowledge centre
      > >d) frequent face-to-face interaction
      > >e) investment in employee development
      > >f) realistic expectations
      > >g) employee autonomy
      > >h) discretionary time
      > >i) common communities (as opposed to exclusive by specialization)
      > >
      > >The examples you provide could meet many if not all of these, in my
      > >view. I'm not sure how well they represent typical org CoPs, however.
      > >
      > >Would be nice to hear some success stories from the group.
      > >
      > >Thanks,
      > >Asif
      > >
      > >--- In com-prac@yahoogroups.com, Dan Woodrow <dan.woodrow@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Thank you Asif for your insight. As I read about your
      > > experiences I am reminded of the importance of context. I wonder
      > > whether an articling law student is in a CoL or a CoP
      > > situation. Hopefully guided by experienced lawyers in a
      > > collaborate environment they are part of a CoP. Similarly many
      > > students in health care professions are collaborating with full
      > > fledge professionals to appreciate professionalism in the work
      > > place. Or as a student group on a hospital unit they are assisting
      > > and helping each other just like professionals might do; problem
      > > solving, sharing information, communicating in a professional way.
      > > >
      > > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > > From: Asif Devji <asif.devji@>
      > > > Date: Monday, May 17, 2010 7:35 am
      > > > Subject: Re: [cp] Communities of Learning and the differences
      > > between Communities of Practice
      > > > To: com-prac@yahoogroups.com
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > Hi John,
      > > > >
      > > > > Good questions and good points.
      > > > >
      > > > > When I say CoL
      > > > > I'm thinking of a group of students in a course, with curriculum
      > > > > and facilitator, which is where I feel I've seen the tech be put
      > > > > to best use.
      > > > >
      > > > > When I say CoP I'm thinking of a group of
      > > > > employees occupying similar specializations or positions in an
      > > > > organization, which is where I find issues such as competition
      > > > > and recognition get in the way.
      > > > >
      > > > > These are the models I've seen -- the analogy I would offer is
      > > > > the degree of
      > > > > collaboration that could be expected among law students in a
      > > > > course
      > > > > versus lawyers in practice -- in the second case, strategic
      > > > > control of
      > > > > information is the practice.
      > > > >
      > > > > Then there's the type of community
      > > > > we're participating in now -- which I think is one of the better
      > > > > examples of a CoP where practice approaches theory (voluntary
      > > > > sharing, social learning) --
      > > > > which I think works because as members we are not competing
      > > > > employees in a single
      > > > > organization. Could we have a conversation about 'faux CoPs' in
      > > > > such an
      > > > > org
      > > > > CoP?
      > > > >
      > > > > The cultural context would determine the breadth of allowable
      > > > > discourse, and faux-ness, as you say, may be an
      > > > > accurate reflection
      > > > > of an info-controlling org culture. I agree that employees are
      > > > > strategic rather
      > > > > than unaware in emulating the types of communications expected
      > > > > (or not
      > > > > expected) of them in such a context -- but I wonder if this is
      > > > > the best
      > > > > use of the CoP.
      > > > >
      > > > > A more common case I've seen is the inactive CoP
      > > > > -- organizationally sponsored and set up but never used by the
      > > > > members
      > > > > themselves. Why not?
      > > > >
      > > > > On the other hand, I've rarely seen an
      > > > > inactive CoL (as I'm defining it). Why? What are the differences?
      > > > >
      > > > > A comparison with an educational model on these terms might be
      > > > > an
      > > > > interesting way to find insights applicable to org CoP (and
      > > > > cultural)
      > > > > contexts.
      > > > >
      > > > > Asif
      > > > >
      > > > > ________________________________
      > > > > From: John David Smith <john.smith@>
      > > > > To: com-prac@yahoogroups.com
      > > > > Sent: Fri, May 14, 2010 12:03:42 PM
      > > > > Subject: RE: [cp] Communities of Learning and the differences
      > > > > between Communities of Practice
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > My question to CoL advocates would be: who's doing the teaching
      > > > > in your community of learning? Who guides? Where
      > > > > does the curriculum come
      > > > > from? I've found that people who live and breathe
      > > > > education normally (maybe
      > > > > for religious reasons) conflate teaching and learning.
      > > > > They assume that
      > > > > learning is always the result of teaching and so, like the drunk
      > > > > looking for
      > > > > his keys under the lamp-post because that's where it's easier to
      > > > > look for them,
      > > > > they look for learning in the vicinity of teaching. The
      > > > > keys are elsewhere.
      > > > > (And should he be driving, anyway?)
      > > > >
      > > > > My question to Fred re faux CoPs would be: what exactly is the
      > > > > practice in those groups? If what the company or culture
      > > > > is concerned about is
      > > > > posing, then community members are learning to do exactly what
      > > > > they need to
      > > > > learn: showing off to their executive sponsors.
      > > > > (Don't forget to blame all
      > > > > the consultants who have spawned faux CoPs, by the way.)
      > > > > But let's not
      > > > > underestimate the intelligence and awareness of people living in blind
      > > > > cultures.
      > > > >
      > > > > John
      > > > > * John David Smith ~ Voice: 503.963.8229 ~ Skype & Twitter:
      > > > > smithjd
      > > > > * Portland, Oregon, USA http://www.learning Alliances. net
      > > > > * "The best way to predict the future is to invent it." Alan Kay
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > Dan Woodrow
      > > > Comox BC CA
      > > >
      > > > As when the golden sun salutes the morn,
      > > > And, having gilt the ocean with his beams,
      > > > Gallops the zodiac in his glistening coach,
      > > > And overlooks the highest-peering hills.
      > > > Shakespeare
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >------------------------------------
      > >
      > >*-- The email forum on communities of practice --*Yahoo! Groups Links
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      > Nancy White | Full Circle Associates | Connecting communities online
      > nancyw@... | +1 206 517 4754 | GMT - 8 |skype - choconancy |
      > Twitter NancyWhite
      > http://www.fullcirc.com/
      >
    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.