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RE: [cp] Forums & KM: What CoP's Should Do to Manage Discussion-Produced Knowledge

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  • Loader, Matt
    To capture the ‘know-who’ could I propose integrating a social network analysis tool (or the visualization element anyway) with the forum / wiki? This
    Message 1 of 18 , Jan 29, 2009
      To capture the ‘know-who’ could I propose integrating a social network analysis tool (or the visualization element anyway) with the forum / wiki? This would be ‘signed in to’ by all forum participants as they join….



      M





      Matt Loader

      ローダー・マッシュー

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      ________________________________

      From: com-prac@yahoogroups.com [mailto:com-prac@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Cornejo Castro, Miguel
      Sent: 29 January 2009 13:15
      To: com-prac@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [cp] Forums & KM: What CoP's Should Do to Manage Discussion-Produced Knowledge



      Hi Eric,

      I'm afraid it's more limited, even if it follows the same idea of unifying the management of the conversation. The only advance in this direction that this software makes is using the thread (from which we extract the messages to be turned into the article) as the article's comments section.

      It's just a harvesting tool, really. Makes it easier to gather and shape a formal conclusions document.

      As for the VDC model, I've been looking into some possibilities that are closer than one'd think. The implementation is still very complex in such a fragmented environment :-) but there's a lot of advance in the right direction.

      Best regards,

      Miguel

      ________________________________________
      De: com-prac@yahoogroups.com <mailto:com-prac%40yahoogroups.com> [com-prac@yahoogroups.com <mailto:com-prac%40yahoogroups.com> ] En nombre de Eric Hoffer [erichoffer@... <mailto:erichoffer%40yahoo.com> ]
      Enviado el: jueves, 29 de enero de 2009 3:17
      Para: com-prac@yahoogroups.com <mailto:com-prac%40yahoogroups.com>
      Asunto: RE: [cp] Forums & KM: What CoP's Should Do to Manage Discussion-Produced Knowledge

      Miguel - That sounds like a step toward the Virtual Dynamic Community - or at least the blogger/commenter tool you and I had swapped emails about some time back. Sounds great. So does it let you post to multiple destinations at once, so you can respond to all the places from which the discussion elements came - and/or to all the places it could be relevant?
      Amy - This is not without work, but I've found that when a community maintains a wiki in conjunction with their forum (the operative word being "maintains"), it is ideal for cataloging ideas, discoveries, conclusions, resources - and can be much easier to find things than searching the forum logs/archives (when accessible). The trick, of course, is getting participation in maintaining the wiki as a resource, and requires a long-term
      perspective!
      Eric

      --- On Wed, 1/28/09, Cornejo Castro, Miguel <miguel.cornejo@... <mailto:miguel.cornejo%40tecnocom.es> <mailto:miguel.cornejo%40tecnocom.es>> wrote:
      From: Cornejo Castro, Miguel <miguel.cornejo@... <mailto:miguel.cornejo%40tecnocom.es> <mailto:miguel.cornejo%40tecnocom.es>>
      Subject: RE: [cp] Forums & KM: What CoP's Should Do to Manage Discussion-Produced Knowledge
      To: "com-prac@yahoogroups.com <mailto:com-prac%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:com-prac%40yahoogroups.com>" <com-prac@yahoogroups.com <mailto:com-prac%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:com-prac%40yahoogroups.com>>
      Date: Wednesday, January 28, 2009, 8:33 PM

      Hi Amy,

      getting people to document at the end of a discussion has always been an uphill struggle. It means collecting, filtering, polishing and publishing the results... and that can be very tedious and time consuming. Not to mention technically complicated.

      Since I operate some forums and tend to "harvest" them for guides, articles, and other objects, I've been on the lookout for any solution to minimize the hassle. Not finding any, this last month I've finally implemented a custom-built piece of software that enables the (authorised) user to select the interesting messages within a thread, dump them to the editing environment with a single click, tweak to their heart's desire, and then publish with another click; the system automatically creates the cross-link from the article to the thread and viceversa (for additional comments). No authorisation or login issues, no copy-pasting, no different files. Trials went very well and now we're in real use. Which means some people are using it, so it's working.

      Of course that's not the whole solution nor will solve the issue of archives. But it's a start.

      Best regards,

      Miguel

      PS - If you happen to use Invision forums and Joomla CMS, and happen to like the idea, let me know :-).

      ____________ _________ _________ _________ _

      De: com-prac@yahoogroup s.com [com-prac@yahoogroup s.com] En nombre de Amy [amypricetx@sbcgloba l.net]

      Enviado el: lunes, 26 de enero de 2009 16:13

      Para: com-prac@yahoogroup s.com

      Asunto: [cp] Forums & KM: What CoP's Should Do to Manage Discussion-Produced Knowledge

      The discussion about the closing of a forum has triggered me

      thinking on the KM aspects. Just stopping a forum doesn't have to

      stop a community - the same group of people could start up again

      elsewhere (just move the tent to another location). However the

      archives are indeed lost with the move.

      This brings up an issue I've been grappling with recently: the

      discussion group/KM conundrum. Having worked in this domain for many

      years, I'm of the opinion that the majority of what is said in

      discussion forums should be deleted periodically, and that it's up

      to the forum community to capture the important info (know-how and

      know-who) in another form for ready reference by all members.

      But that doesn't seem to be the situation with the aforementioned

      community, and it's certainly not evolved beyond discussion in the

      groups I work with (in fact, members publish complete solutions out

      to the forums with attachments) .

      Email archiving policies (deletion after X number of years) may be

      creating a 'burning platform' to cause companies to look more

      closely at this issue.

      So my questions are:

      -- How do we make the leap from forums to preserving the good bits

      of knowledge they produce?

      -- Do we need better tools, practice/process or both, and if so,

      what?

      -- What has worked for people on these boards?

      Web 2.0 seemed to be getting us to a place where some of this would

      be possible, but I'm afraid that proliferating forums will result in

      bigger dumpsters. I'm ok for occasional dumpster diving but I don't

      want to make a career out of it. And I don't believe that Search

      will ever be good enough to solve this issue.

      Inputs are most welcome. (I'll document the good stuff at the end of

      the discussion.)

      Cheers, Amy P.

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • John D. Smith
      All of the discussion about summarization so far assumes that a community almost exclusively lives on one platform. As Nancy aluded to, I think the reality is
      Message 2 of 18 , Jan 29, 2009
        All of the discussion about summarization so far assumes that a community
        almost exclusively lives on one platform. As Nancy aluded to, I think the
        reality is quite a bit more messy. Note the private emails between Eric
        Holder and Miguel Cornejo that were mentioend in this thread. We ourselves
        interact in LOTS of different locations.

        A key event is when a discussion moves from one platform to another -- you
        know it's real when the same damn problems (and some interesting alternate
        solutions) come up in a face-to-face discussion.

        John
        *
        * John D. Smith ~ Voice: 503.963.8229 ~ Skype: smithjd
        * Portland, Oregon, USA http://www.learningAlliances.net
        * “Your responsibility does not end with complaining. Suggest something
        better!” - Esther Dyson
      • John D. Smith
        ... wrote: ... threads in the ... using the ... Sounds interesting, Steve... I wonder if you could point us to an example
        Message 3 of 18 , Jan 29, 2009
          --- In com-prac@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Glovinsky"
          <steve.glovinsky@...> wrote:

          <snip>

          > The main product or our research service is the
          > "Consolidated Reply" - a template that synthesizes discussion
          threads in the
          > form of an executive brief and captures the experiences and references
          > offered by participants. Our aim is to get all Solution Exchanges
          using the
          > same template so that they can be indexed in a common repository (we are
          > currently building) and shared across countries.

          <snip>

          Sounds interesting, Steve...

          I wonder if you could point us to an example of either the guidelines
          or their use? A URL or a file you could share in the com-prac "files
          area" would be great: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/com-prac/files

          I think you and Nancy have implicitly brought up the importance of
          paid staff for the functioning of a community. Anything you might
          have to say about that would be very interesting, too.

          John
          *
          * John D. Smith ~ Voice: 503.963.8229 ~ Skype: smithjd
          * Portland, Oregon, USA http://www.learningAlliances.net
          * "Your responsibility does not end with complaining. Suggest
          something better!" — Esther Dyson
        • Amy
          John, I really like the Q&A idea (and I ll group FAQ s with this too). One of the topics that comes up again and again is how to get people to read the manual
          Message 4 of 18 , Jan 30, 2009
            John,

            I really like the Q&A idea (and I'll group FAQ's with this too). One
            of the topics that comes up again and again is how to get people to
            read the manual (the "RTFM" file for you MIT grads out there). But
            people don't read manuals to solve a problem (unless desperate); they
            ask a question. If you look at the online resources available from
            companies like Microsoft, it's easy to see that this structure is
            viable and useful for people. I think that MS (and others) do invest
            time in cleaning up the responses and ensuring their accuracy.

            As for all of those archives - it's just frightening how much we
            accumulate. At least with paper, one is motivated to sort through and
            reduce the volume when it threatens to collapse on your work area or
            when you have to walk around the stack. Not so with e-files however.
            Moving platforms and doing backups are about the only time I
            personally pay attention to this. This is particularly bad for
            communities, where there are many contributors but no "owners" for the
            info.

            There is a discipline needed at the time of creation and/or use. Just
            like it's necessary to put the dirty dishes in the sink and wash them,
            so must we be motivated to refine the knowledge at the time of
            creation/use and add it to a knowledge store in a reusable, accessible
            format.

            More comments are always welcome!

            Cheers, Amy P.


            --- In com-prac@yahoogroups.com, "John D. Smith" <john.smith@...> wrote:
            >
            > Re amy's comments about the archives...
            >
            > There's a chapter by Finholdt, T. A., Sproull, L., and Kiesler, S.,
            > "Outsiders on the Inside: Sharing Know-How Across Space and Time,"
            in Hinds,
            > Pamela J. and Sara Kiesler (eds), Distributed Work. (Cambridge, MA: MIT
            > Press, 2002), pp. 357-380.
            >
            > It's "old" but argues that the narrative style of a Q&A database
            were more
            > frequently consulted because they had situated cues that users
            (especially
            > remote ones) found helpful in interpreting technical knowledge that
            had been
            > shared. The Q&A form was MORE useful and MORE USED than the
            summarized and
            > cleaned up stuff provided by the same company in the same general
            technical
            > area (this is all from memory and I tend to simplfy stuff, so you
            might go
            > read it).
            >
            > The other source arguing for the long-term utility of list archives
            (like
            > trdev) is Peter G. Kilner PhD Dissertation 2006 "The effects of socially
            > relevant representations in content on members' identities of
            participation
            > and willingness to contribute in distributed communities of practice".
            > Again, based on his presentation in CPsquare, people will situate
            tips and
            > suggestions IN PRACTICE, suggest who they are, what level they're
            working
            > on, etc. (and they often can be coaxed to do a better job of it).
            >
            > Bottom line: it's a BAD idea to throw away archives.
            >
            > ON THE OTHER HAND: CPsquare discussions have been kept for years and
            years
            > and so when new poeple join I shake my head and worry that they'll
            > absolutely CHOKE at the volume and complexity. Just don't know.
            >
            > John
            > *
            > * John D. Smith ~ Voice: 503.963.8229 ~ Skype: smithjd
            > * Portland, Oregon, USA http://www.learningAlliances.net
            > * "Your responsibility does not end with complaining. Suggest something
            > better!" — Esther Dyson
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: com-prac@yahoogroups.com [mailto:com-prac@yahoogroups.com] On
            Behalf
            > Of Amy
            > Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 7:13 AM
            > To: com-prac@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [cp] Forums & KM: What CoP's Should Do to Manage
            > Discussion-Produced Knowledge
            >
            > The discussion about the closing of a forum has triggered me
            > thinking on the KM aspects. Just stopping a forum doesn't have to
            > stop a community - the same group of people could start up again
            > elsewhere (just move the tent to another location). However the
            > archives are indeed lost with the move.
            >
            > This brings up an issue I've been grappling with recently: the
            > discussion group/KM conundrum. Having worked in this domain for many
            > years, I'm of the opinion that the majority of what is said in
            > discussion forums should be deleted periodically, and that it's up
            > to the forum community to capture the important info (know-how and
            > know-who) in another form for ready reference by all members.
            >
            > But that doesn't seem to be the situation with the aforementioned
            > community, and it's certainly not evolved beyond discussion in the
            > groups I work with (in fact, members publish complete solutions out
            > to the forums with attachments).
            >
            > Email archiving policies (deletion after X number of years) may be
            > creating a 'burning platform' to cause companies to look more
            > closely at this issue.
            >
            > So my questions are:
            >
            > -- How do we make the leap from forums to preserving the good bits
            > of knowledge they produce?
            > -- Do we need better tools, practice/process or both, and if so,
            > what?
            > -- What has worked for people on these boards?
            >
            > Web 2.0 seemed to be getting us to a place where some of this would
            > be possible, but I'm afraid that proliferating forums will result in
            > bigger dumpsters. I'm ok for occasional dumpster diving but I don't
            > want to make a career out of it. And I don't believe that Search
            > will ever be good enough to solve this issue.
            >
            > Inputs are most welcome. (I'll document the good stuff at the end of
            > the discussion.)
            >
            > Cheers, Amy P.
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > *-- The email forum on communities of practice --*Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
          • Steve Glovinsky
            Done - I ve posted four examples from the four countries we are working in so far. I set them up as pdf files on our site at
            Message 5 of 18 , Jan 30, 2009
              Done - I've posted four examples from the four countries we are working in
              so far. I set them up as pdf files on our site at
              www.solex-un.net/operations/comms_material/solution_exchange-un_consolidated
              _reply_examples.zip.
              Think franchise, and you will get the idea.

              And yes, John, well qualified, well trained, full-time moderators are a key
              to success. When I present to new groups I am always surprised that so many
              organizations trying to introduce Communities of Practice miss this point.
              With our focus on providing a research service this point may be more
              obvious, and I can see where the more typical discussion groups, not
              designed to "put their communities to work", would not need to be so labor
              intensive. But still, serious professional efforts usually need to be
              professionally managed....

              Steve

              (Could I put in a plug? The "franchise" is in need of funds for start-ups.
              If anyone has or knows of a possible source could they please get in touch?
              Thanks. S)



              -----Original Message-----
              From: com-prac@yahoogroups.com [mailto:com-prac@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
              Of John D. Smith
              Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 5:53 AM
              To: com-prac@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [cp] Forums & KM: What CoP's Should Do to Manage
              Discussion-Produced Knowledge



              --- In com-prac@yahoogroup <mailto:com-prac%40yahoogroups.com> s.com, "Steve
              Glovinsky"
              <steve.glovinsky@...> wrote:

              <snip>

              > The main product or our research service is the
              > "Consolidated Reply" - a template that synthesizes discussion
              threads in the
              > form of an executive brief and captures the experiences and references
              > offered by participants. Our aim is to get all Solution Exchanges
              using the
              > same template so that they can be indexed in a common repository (we are
              > currently building) and shared across countries.

              <snip>

              Sounds interesting, Steve...

              I wonder if you could point us to an example of either the guidelines
              or their use? A URL or a file you could share in the com-prac "files
              area" would be great: http://groups.
              <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/com-prac/files>
              yahoo.com/group/com-prac/files

              I think you and Nancy have implicitly brought up the importance of
              paid staff for the functioning of a community. Anything you might
              have to say about that would be very interesting, too.

              John
              *
              * John D. Smith ~ Voice: 503.963.8229 ~ Skype: smithjd
              * Portland, Oregon, USA http://www.learning
              <http://www.learningAlliances.net> Alliances.net
              * "Your responsibility does not end with complaining. Suggest
              something better!" - Esther Dyson







              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • John D. Smith
              Great contribution, Steve! (Here s a tiny URL that s un-folded: http://tinyurl.com/cv4np5 ) Highlights (from the India example) to my eye: * the original (very
              Message 6 of 18 , Jan 31, 2009
                Great contribution, Steve!

                (Here's a tiny URL that's un-folded: http://tinyurl.com/cv4np5 )

                Highlights (from the India example) to my eye:

                * the original (very compelling) question
                * thanks to ALL the contributors
                * Overall summary
                * Detailed recommendations (from experience of responses)
                * Further resources
                * Professional contacts
                * Creative Commons License at the bottom!
                * The india example is NINETEEN PAGES!

                Very rich example.

                I took a shot at tagging it, which might be a case of the "poor man's
                summary": http://delicious.com/smithjd/summaries

                Any other comments about these examples, folks?

                John
                *
                * John D. Smith ~ Voice: 503.963.8229 ~ Skype: smithjd
                * Portland, Oregon, USA http://www.learningAlliances.net
                * "Your responsibility does not end with complaining. Suggest something
                better!" - Esther Dyson
              • joitske
                Hi Steve, Thanks for these examples, having an example gives you more of an insight that when someone just mentions it! I would like to jump on your expression
                Message 7 of 18 , Feb 1, 2009
                  Hi Steve,

                  Thanks for these examples, having an example gives you more of an
                  insight that when someone just mentions it!

                  I would like to jump on your expression of surprise that
                  organisations miss the point for the need of facilitation. I have an
                  experience where we facilitated a community of practice for 2 years
                  on behalf of two organisations. (you can find the case study here by
                  the way: http://www.scribd.com/doc/3404250/From-a-meeting-to-a-
                  community-of-practice) After the facilitators stepped down, the
                  organisations felt that the community should be able to continue 'on
                  its own'. I sometimes get the impression that the name community of
                  practice or network has a false connotation of complete self-
                  organisation. And self-organisation is fine, but then the value
                  remains exactly within the small self-organised group. If you want to
                  make that knowledge and the social capital more widely accessible,
                  you need the kind of leveraging as you do with the facilitation. So
                  in the end, the organisations loose out, as the whole thing becomes
                  more invisible.

                  I'm very curious to hear other people's experiences how they deal
                  with this. If they recognize this too. It's like people don't see the
                  downsides of complete self-organisation?

                  Cheers, Joitske


                  --- In com-prac@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Glovinsky"
                  <steve.glovinsky@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Done - I've posted four examples from the four countries we are
                  working in
                  > so far. I set them up as pdf files on our site at
                  > www.solex-un.net/operations/comms_material/solution_exchange-
                  un_consolidated
                  > _reply_examples.zip.
                  > Think franchise, and you will get the idea.
                  >
                  > And yes, John, well qualified, well trained, full-time moderators
                  are a key
                  > to success. When I present to new groups I am always surprised
                  that so many
                  > organizations trying to introduce Communities of Practice miss this
                  point.
                  > With our focus on providing a research service this point may be
                  more
                  > obvious, and I can see where the more typical discussion groups, not
                  > designed to "put their communities to work", would not need to be
                  so labor
                  > intensive. But still, serious professional efforts usually need to
                  be
                  > professionally managed....
                  >
                  > Steve
                  >
                  > (Could I put in a plug? The "franchise" is in need of funds for
                  start-ups.
                  > If anyone has or knows of a possible source could they please get
                  in touch?
                  > Thanks. S)
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: com-prac@yahoogroups.com [mailto:com-prac@yahoogroups.com] On
                  Behalf
                  > Of John D. Smith
                  > Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 5:53 AM
                  > To: com-prac@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: Re: [cp] Forums & KM: What CoP's Should Do to Manage
                  > Discussion-Produced Knowledge
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In com-prac@yahoogroup <mailto:com-prac%40yahoogroups.com>
                  s.com, "Steve
                  > Glovinsky"
                  > <steve.glovinsky@> wrote:
                  >
                  > <snip>
                  >
                  > > The main product or our research service is the
                  > > "Consolidated Reply" - a template that synthesizes discussion
                  > threads in the
                  > > form of an executive brief and captures the experiences and
                  references
                  > > offered by participants. Our aim is to get all Solution Exchanges
                  > using the
                  > > same template so that they can be indexed in a common repository
                  (we are
                  > > currently building) and shared across countries.
                  >
                  > <snip>
                  >
                  > Sounds interesting, Steve...
                  >
                  > I wonder if you could point us to an example of either the
                  guidelines
                  > or their use? A URL or a file you could share in the com-prac "files
                  > area" would be great: http://groups.
                  > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/com-prac/files>
                  > yahoo.com/group/com-prac/files
                  >
                  > I think you and Nancy have implicitly brought up the importance of
                  > paid staff for the functioning of a community. Anything you might
                  > have to say about that would be very interesting, too.
                  >
                  > John
                  > *
                  > * John D. Smith ~ Voice: 503.963.8229 ~ Skype: smithjd
                  > * Portland, Oregon, USA http://www.learning
                  > <http://www.learningAlliances.net> Alliances.net
                  > * "Your responsibility does not end with complaining. Suggest
                  > something better!" - Esther Dyson
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                • John D. Smith
                  This whole discussion could be summarized here: http://cpsquare.org/wiki/index.php?title=Text_Discussions_with_Wikis (We re trying to consolidate a lot of
                  Message 8 of 18 , Feb 1, 2009
                    This whole discussion could be summarized here:

                    http://cpsquare.org/wiki/index.php?title=Text_Discussions_with_Wikis

                    (We're trying to consolidate a lot of resources about CoPs from
                    various locations into one public wiki. ALL com-prac members are
                    invited to sign-up. Because of the amount of SPAM on an earlier
                    effort, I'm controlling access in advance: passers-by can't edit, but,
                    like com-prac, once you've said something useful, you're welcome to
                    speak up. So, do request an account:

                    http://cpsquare.org/wiki/index.php?title=Special:RequestAccount

                    And other useful discussions here on com-prac could be gathered
                    together there.

                    John
                    *
                    * John D. Smith ~ Voice: 503.963.8229 ~ Skype: smithjd
                    * Portland, Oregon, USA http://www.learningAlliances.net
                    * "Your responsibility does not end with complaining. Suggest
                    something better!" — Esther Dyson
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