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CoPs reduce turn-over rate?

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  • Marilyn L. Perry, Ph.D.
    Hi, Anybody come across studies that support this hypothesis: Participation
    Message 1 of 8 , Aug 4, 2006
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      Hi,
      Anybody come across studies that support this hypothesis: Participation
      > in communities of practice reduces employee turnover rates. It would
      > also be beneficial to see this demonstrated in offshored business
      > operations. Thanks.
    • Lee Romero
      Hi Marilyn - I haven t seen any replies to this. Have you received some off-list replies with some insight? I d be interested in any insights others could
      Message 2 of 8 , Aug 28, 2006
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        Hi Marilyn - I haven't seen any replies to this. Have you received
        some off-list replies with some insight? I'd be interested in any
        insights others could share.

        For what it's worth, about 18 months ago, we did a one-time review
        within our corporation to see if there was any correlation. We did
        detect a slight difference (slightly lower turnover among CoP members)
        but not statistically significant enough to believe that it
        represented something noteworthy.

        The major caveat is that it was one time, during a specific span of
        time and we haven't followed up.

        Lee Romero

        On 8/4/06, Marilyn L. Perry, Ph.D. <marilyn.perry@...> wrote:
        > Hi,
        > Anybody come across studies that support this hypothesis: Participation
        > > in communities of practice reduces employee turnover rates. It would
        > > also be beneficial to see this demonstrated in offshored business
        > > operations. Thanks.
        >
      • Kim Rowe
        Hi Marylyn; I also did a search expecting that it would reduce turnover in organizations that had a high technical content with vertical experts. I did not
        Message 3 of 8 , Aug 29, 2006
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          Hi Marylyn;

          I also did a search expecting that it would reduce turnover in organizations
          that had a high technical content with vertical experts. I did not find it
          although it is intutive that it would exist for reasons of culture and
          expert power.

          CoPs that people participate in outside the organization would be expected
          to eliminate the retension effect and the option of switching to an external
          CoP which could offer a substitute would also eliminate it. Those who
          switch from an internal one to an external one or start using both might be
          key candidates for job change as well.

          Please post any results you come across.

          Kim

          >From: "Lee Romero" <pekadad@...>
          >Reply-To: com-prac@yahoogroups.com
          >To: com-prac@yahoogroups.com
          >Subject: Re: [cp] CoPs reduce turn-over rate?
          >Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 10:57:41 -0400
          >
          >Hi Marilyn - I haven't seen any replies to this. Have you received
          >some off-list replies with some insight? I'd be interested in any
          >insights others could share.
          >
          >For what it's worth, about 18 months ago, we did a one-time review
          >within our corporation to see if there was any correlation. We did
          >detect a slight difference (slightly lower turnover among CoP members)
          >but not statistically significant enough to believe that it
          >represented something noteworthy.
          >
          >The major caveat is that it was one time, during a specific span of
          >time and we haven't followed up.
          >
          >Lee Romero
          >
          >On 8/4/06, Marilyn L. Perry, Ph.D. <marilyn.perry@...> wrote:
          > > Hi,
          > > Anybody come across studies that support this hypothesis: Participation
          > > > in communities of practice reduces employee turnover rates. It would
          > > > also be beneficial to see this demonstrated in offshored business
          > > > operations. Thanks.
          > >
        • Cornejo Castro, Miguel
          Hi Kim, sorry about the delay, just got back from holidays. Jut one result to add: participation in external CoPs does indeed increase the probability of
          Message 4 of 8 , Sep 5, 2006
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            Hi Kim,

            sorry about the delay, just got back from holidays.

            Jut one result to add: participation in external CoPs does indeed increase the probability of switching employers.

            I just ran a straw poll among 12 moderators, and almost all (9) of them have changed jobs in the period since they joined, whereas only 3 had in the equivalent period before joining.

            It needs to be taken with some precaution: moderators are especially visible as professional references.

            Best regards,

            Miguel


            -----Mensaje original-----
            De: com-prac@yahoogroups.com en nombre de Kim Rowe
            Enviado el: Mar 29/08/2006 14:19
            Para: com-prac@yahoogroups.com
            Asunto: Re: [cp] CoPs reduce turn-over rate?

            Hi Marylyn;

            I also did a search expecting that it would reduce turnover in organizations
            that had a high technical content with vertical experts. I did not find it
            although it is intutive that it would exist for reasons of culture and
            expert power.

            CoPs that people participate in outside the organization would be expected
            to eliminate the retension effect and the option of switching to an external
            CoP which could offer a substitute would also eliminate it. Those who
            switch from an internal one to an external one or start using both might be
            key candidates for job change as well.

            Please post any results you come across.

            Kim

            >From: "Lee Romero" <pekadad@...>
            >Reply-To: com-prac@yahoogroups.com
            >To: com-prac@yahoogroups.com
            >Subject: Re: [cp] CoPs reduce turn-over rate?
            >Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 10:57:41 -0400
            >
            >Hi Marilyn - I haven't seen any replies to this. Have you received
            >some off-list replies with some insight? I'd be interested in any
            >insights others could share.
            >
            >For what it's worth, about 18 months ago, we did a one-time review
            >within our corporation to see if there was any correlation. We did
            >detect a slight difference (slightly lower turnover among CoP members)
            >but not statistically significant enough to believe that it
            >represented something noteworthy.
            >
            >The major caveat is that it was one time, during a specific span of
            >time and we haven't followed up.
            >
            >Lee Romero
            >
            >On 8/4/06, Marilyn L. Perry, Ph.D. <marilyn.perry@...> wrote:
            > > Hi,
            > > Anybody come across studies that support this hypothesis: Participation
            > > > in communities of practice reduces employee turnover rates. It would
            > > > also be beneficial to see this demonstrated in offshored business
            > > > operations. Thanks.
            > >





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Matthew Moore
            Hmmm - let s take a second to reflect on this: why do people change their jobs? Based on a rigorous 5 second search of google, I now give you the key reasons
            Message 5 of 8 , Sep 5, 2006
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              Hmmm - let's take a second to reflect on this: why do people change their jobs?

              Based on a rigorous 5 second search of google, I now give you the key reasons below. N.B. Joining an external community of practice is not one of them.

              Let's also consider cause and effect - many people I know join external communities & associates because they are unhappy with their existing role and what to seek out other opportunities.

              I would suggest that lack of internal CoPs points to issue 3 - the organizational culture may be kaput. An organization that genuinely cares about CoPs and similar activities may have a healthier culture.

              a.. Lack of opportunity with your current employer.
              a.. Not getting on with the boss.
              a.. Uncomfortable with the company culture.
              a.. Not advancing your career at the same rate as friends and ex-colleagues.
              a.. Post-holiday depression.

              -----Original Message-----
              From: com-prac@yahoogroups.com [mailto:com-prac@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Cornejo Castro, Miguel
              Sent: Tuesday, 5 September 2006 5:50 PM
              To: com-prac@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [cp] CoPs reduce turn-over rate?


              Hi Kim,

              sorry about the delay, just got back from holidays.

              Jut one result to add: participation in external CoPs does indeed increase the probability of switching employers.

              I just ran a straw poll among 12 moderators, and almost all (9) of them have changed jobs in the period since they joined, whereas only 3 had in the equivalent period before joining.

              It needs to be taken with some precaution: moderators are especially visible as professional references.

              Best regards,

              Miguel

              -----Mensaje original-----
              De: com-prac@yahoogroups.com en nombre de Kim Rowe
              Enviado el: Mar 29/08/2006 14:19
              Para: com-prac@yahoogroups.com
              Asunto: Re: [cp] CoPs reduce turn-over rate?

              Hi Marylyn;

              I also did a search expecting that it would reduce turnover in organizations
              that had a high technical content with vertical experts. I did not find it
              although it is intutive that it would exist for reasons of culture and
              expert power.

              CoPs that people participate in outside the organization would be expected
              to eliminate the retension effect and the option of switching to an external
              CoP which could offer a substitute would also eliminate it. Those who
              switch from an internal one to an external one or start using both might be
              key candidates for job change as well.

              Please post any results you come across.

              Kim

              >From: "Lee Romero" <pekadad@...>
              >Reply-To: com-prac@yahoogroups.com
              >To: com-prac@yahoogroups.com
              >Subject: Re: [cp] CoPs reduce turn-over rate?
              >Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 10:57:41 -0400
              >
              >Hi Marilyn - I haven't seen any replies to this. Have you received
              >some off-list replies with some insight? I'd be interested in any
              >insights others could share.
              >
              >For what it's worth, about 18 months ago, we did a one-time review
              >within our corporation to see if there was any correlation. We did
              >detect a slight difference (slightly lower turnover among CoP members)
              >but not statistically significant enough to believe that it
              >represented something noteworthy.
              >
              >The major caveat is that it was one time, during a specific span of
              >time and we haven't followed up.
              >
              >Lee Romero
              >
              >On 8/4/06, Marilyn L. Perry, Ph.D. <marilyn.perry@...> wrote:
              > > Hi,
              > > Anybody come across studies that support this hypothesis: Participation
              > > > in communities of practice reduces employee turnover rates. It would
              > > > also be beneficial to see this demonstrated in offshored business
              > > > operations. Thanks.
              > >

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Kim Rowe
              Hi All; Actually, I d say that people change jobs for reasons as outlined by Hertzberg in his two factor theory. You could try and apply Maslov here but it
              Message 6 of 8 , Sep 5, 2006
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                Hi All;

                Actually, I'd say that people change jobs for reasons as outlined by
                Hertzberg in his two factor theory. You could try and apply Maslov here but
                it doesn't work as well. And of course there can be other factors involved
                (ie health issues).

                here is about the first link for this theory that makes sense. there is many
                more.
                http://www.tutor2u.net/business/people/motivation_theory_herzberg.asp

                I'd argue that people who are unhappy or unmotivated are candidates to leave
                the organization. One thing that holds them back is "the job itself" as a
                prime motivator. Participation in the community is part of the job and it
                can offer recognition, a sense of accomplishment and be an interesting part
                of the job. By replacing this internal interaction with an external
                replacement, the person that is unmotivated in other areas and is
                dissatisifed with the satificers becomes motivated to move to a new
                organization. The old organization looses its power to hold him or her.

                The flip side of this is of course that the community can retain people by
                providing recognition, satisfaction and team participation making the job
                more enjoyable.

                But it seems we haven't studies to support this yet although the conclusion
                seems obvious based on this theory.

                Kim

                >From: "Matthew Moore" <matthew.moore@...>
                >Reply-To: com-prac@yahoogroups.com
                >To: "com-prac@yahoogroups.com" <com-prac@yahoogroups.com>
                >Subject: RE: [cp] CoPs reduce turn-over rate?
                >Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 08:41:47 +1000
                >
                >Hmmm - let's take a second to reflect on this: why do people change their
                >jobs?
                >
                >Based on a rigorous 5 second search of google, I now give you the key
                >reasons below. N.B. Joining an external community of practice is not one of
                >them.
                >
                >Let's also consider cause and effect - many people I know join external
                >communities & associates because they are unhappy with their existing role
                >and what to seek out other opportunities.
                >
                >I would suggest that lack of internal CoPs points to issue 3 - the
                >organizational culture may be kaput. An organization that genuinely cares
                >about CoPs and similar activities may have a healthier culture.
                >
                >a.. Lack of opportunity with your current employer.
                >a.. Not getting on with the boss.
                >a.. Uncomfortable with the company culture.
                >a.. Not advancing your career at the same rate as friends and
                >ex-colleagues.
                >a.. Post-holiday depression.
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: com-prac@yahoogroups.com [mailto:com-prac@yahoogroups.com]On
                >Behalf Of Cornejo Castro, Miguel
                > Sent: Tuesday, 5 September 2006 5:50 PM
                > To: com-prac@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: RE: [cp] CoPs reduce turn-over rate?
                >
                >
                > Hi Kim,
                >
                > sorry about the delay, just got back from holidays.
                >
                > Jut one result to add: participation in external CoPs does indeed
                >increase the probability of switching employers.
                >
                > I just ran a straw poll among 12 moderators, and almost all (9) of them
                >have changed jobs in the period since they joined, whereas only 3 had in
                >the equivalent period before joining.
                >
                > It needs to be taken with some precaution: moderators are especially
                >visible as professional references.
                >
                > Best regards,
                >
                > Miguel
                >
                > -----Mensaje original-----
                > De: com-prac@yahoogroups.com en nombre de Kim Rowe
                > Enviado el: Mar 29/08/2006 14:19
                > Para: com-prac@yahoogroups.com
                > Asunto: Re: [cp] CoPs reduce turn-over rate?
                >
                > Hi Marylyn;
                >
                > I also did a search expecting that it would reduce turnover in
                >organizations
                > that had a high technical content with vertical experts. I did not find
                >it
                > although it is intutive that it would exist for reasons of culture and
                > expert power.
                >
                > CoPs that people participate in outside the organization would be
                >expected
                > to eliminate the retension effect and the option of switching to an
                >external
                > CoP which could offer a substitute would also eliminate it. Those who
                > switch from an internal one to an external one or start using both might
                >be
                > key candidates for job change as well.
                >
                > Please post any results you come across.
                >
                > Kim
                >
                > >From: "Lee Romero" <pekadad@...>
                > >Reply-To: com-prac@yahoogroups.com
                > >To: com-prac@yahoogroups.com
                > >Subject: Re: [cp] CoPs reduce turn-over rate?
                > >Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 10:57:41 -0400
                > >
                > >Hi Marilyn - I haven't seen any replies to this. Have you received
                > >some off-list replies with some insight? I'd be interested in any
                > >insights others could share.
                > >
                > >For what it's worth, about 18 months ago, we did a one-time review
                > >within our corporation to see if there was any correlation. We did
                > >detect a slight difference (slightly lower turnover among CoP members)
                > >but not statistically significant enough to believe that it
                > >represented something noteworthy.
                > >
                > >The major caveat is that it was one time, during a specific span of
                > >time and we haven't followed up.
                > >
                > >Lee Romero
                > >
                > >On 8/4/06, Marilyn L. Perry, Ph.D. <marilyn.perry@...> wrote:
                > > > Hi,
                > > > Anybody come across studies that support this hypothesis:
                >Participation
                > > > > in communities of practice reduces employee turnover rates. It
                >would
                > > > > also be beneficial to see this demonstrated in offshored business
                > > > > operations. Thanks.
                > > >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
              • Cornejo Castro, Miguel
                Hi Mathew, agreed. But the external CoPs story s a bit more complex. CoPs are environments where professional recognition may be garnered and networks spread.
                Message 7 of 8 , Sep 6, 2006
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                  Hi Mathew,

                  agreed.

                  But the external CoPs story's a bit more complex. CoPs are environments where professional recognition may be garnered and networks spread. Thus:

                  - Increased visibility in the open professional market makes any individual likelier to be contacted and picked off by a competitor (3 out of 9 changes in the straw poll; 2 more could be assimilated but it's a long story).

                  - Increased communication with outside professionales can (and does) highlight different cultures and work conditions and can (and does) highlight work conditions that are below market or common expectations, thus increasing the person's likelihood of developing causes 3 and 4 in your list.

                  - Increased opportunities to network and collaborate with outside people and practices increase the probability of becoming involved in new projects, either changing the work field (i.e. a pre-press worker becoming a freelance video-editing pro) or the angle (a 3D modeller becoming manager of a 3D firm's support forums), or even striking out in new ventures (sys administrator setting up an IT maintenance firm with two others). The three instances mentioned are real occurrences within the straw-polled group. I know of many more in the CoP.

                  So, even if participating in external CoPs is not "a cause" of changing jobs, by increasing the quality of information and opening choices it increases the general ability of participants to change jobs, thus raising the probability of a job change.

                  Q.E.D. ;-).

                  And I'm leaving out the weirder causes, like professional growth beyond the lanes set by the corporation, which causes (I can attest) problems with some bosses :-).

                  Like transparency in pricing, worker participation in external CoPs is not a bad thing for companies... in itself. It can just as well attract people, increase workers' productivity and enable new ventures for the firm. The firm just needs to be good enough.

                  Lack of internal CoPs may be due to a lot of things; an outdated collaboration culture is one, but others are more pernicious, as you said. Still, backing the internal-CoPs-equals-better-retention with some examples or numbers is proving hard.

                  Best regards,

                  Miguel



                  -----Mensaje original-----
                  De: com-prac@yahoogroups.com en nombre de Matthew Moore
                  Enviado el: MiƩ 06/09/2006 0:41
                  Para: com-prac@yahoogroups.com
                  Asunto: RE: [cp] CoPs reduce turn-over rate?

                  Hmmm - let's take a second to reflect on this: why do people change their jobs?

                  Based on a rigorous 5 second search of google, I now give you the key reasons below. N.B. Joining an external community of practice is not one of them.

                  Let's also consider cause and effect - many people I know join external communities & associates because they are unhappy with their existing role and what to seek out other opportunities.

                  I would suggest that lack of internal CoPs points to issue 3 - the organizational culture may be kaput. An organization that genuinely cares about CoPs and similar activities may have a healthier culture.

                  a.. Lack of opportunity with your current employer.
                  a.. Not getting on with the boss.
                  a.. Uncomfortable with the company culture.
                  a.. Not advancing your career at the same rate as friends and ex-colleagues.
                  a.. Post-holiday depression.

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: com-prac@yahoogroups.com [mailto:com-prac@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Cornejo Castro, Miguel
                  Sent: Tuesday, 5 September 2006 5:50 PM
                  To: com-prac@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: RE: [cp] CoPs reduce turn-over rate?


                  Hi Kim,

                  sorry about the delay, just got back from holidays.

                  Jut one result to add: participation in external CoPs does indeed increase the probability of switching employers.

                  I just ran a straw poll among 12 moderators, and almost all (9) of them have changed jobs in the period since they joined, whereas only 3 had in the equivalent period before joining.

                  It needs to be taken with some precaution: moderators are especially visible as professional references.

                  Best regards,

                  Miguel

                  -----Mensaje original-----
                  De: com-prac@yahoogroups.com en nombre de Kim Rowe
                  Enviado el: Mar 29/08/2006 14:19
                  Para: com-prac@yahoogroups.com
                  Asunto: Re: [cp] CoPs reduce turn-over rate?

                  Hi Marylyn;

                  I also did a search expecting that it would reduce turnover in organizations
                  that had a high technical content with vertical experts. I did not find it
                  although it is intutive that it would exist for reasons of culture and
                  expert power.

                  CoPs that people participate in outside the organization would be expected
                  to eliminate the retension effect and the option of switching to an external
                  CoP which could offer a substitute would also eliminate it. Those who
                  switch from an internal one to an external one or start using both might be
                  key candidates for job change as well.

                  Please post any results you come across.

                  Kim

                  >From: "Lee Romero" <pekadad@...>
                  >Reply-To: com-prac@yahoogroups.com
                  >To: com-prac@yahoogroups.com
                  >Subject: Re: [cp] CoPs reduce turn-over rate?
                  >Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 10:57:41 -0400
                  >
                  >Hi Marilyn - I haven't seen any replies to this. Have you received
                  >some off-list replies with some insight? I'd be interested in any
                  >insights others could share.
                  >
                  >For what it's worth, about 18 months ago, we did a one-time review
                  >within our corporation to see if there was any correlation. We did
                  >detect a slight difference (slightly lower turnover among CoP members)
                  >but not statistically significant enough to believe that it
                  >represented something noteworthy.
                  >
                  >The major caveat is that it was one time, during a specific span of
                  >time and we haven't followed up.
                  >
                  >Lee Romero
                  >
                  >On 8/4/06, Marilyn L. Perry, Ph.D. <marilyn.perry@...> wrote:
                  > > Hi,
                  > > Anybody come across studies that support this hypothesis: Participation
                  > > > in communities of practice reduces employee turnover rates. It would
                  > > > also be beneficial to see this demonstrated in offshored business
                  > > > operations. Thanks.
                  > >

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Rosanna Tarsiero
                  Matthew, Miguel, It seems to me like the external vs internal CoP diatribe is even more complicated. An organization of any kind, either for profit or
                  Message 8 of 8 , Sep 6, 2006
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Matthew, Miguel,



                    It seems to me like the external vs internal CoP diatribe is even more
                    complicated.



                    An organization of any kind, either for profit or non-profit, would want to
                    see a ROI or a qualitative analysis of impact or in any case "something"
                    about the importance of the CoP for their organization.

                    However, both the method for assessing the impact and the way impact is
                    conceptualized depend on the *values* such organization has. It is around
                    those values that the organization will deem a method (or another
                    appropriate), will build an idea of "impact" and even "ROI" that would
                    target what is important to that organization vs another one, will care much
                    about one indicator than another.



                    For example, you can have a nonprofit whose targets is community-building
                    through CoPs and one that is about knowledge harvesting through CoPs. NP1
                    will more likely deem something successful when there are some indication
                    that the community around NP1 improved, NP2 will consider success as
                    creating a database of some sort harvesting specialized expert knowledge
                    (like the World Bank).



                    Different organizations will have different takes on external vs internal
                    CoP usage. If the organization doesn't have any copyright, trademark or
                    similar thing to protect or to worry over having it leaked out, chances are
                    external CoPs will be an appetizing option. Even within the same
                    organization, an internal CoP initiative can be favored when the focus of
                    improvement is within some aspects of the association (like autoctone best
                    practices, adherence to procedures, generation of way of dealing with
                    unstructured procedures, etc).



                    Finally, both types of CoPs can be used in a top-down manner: rather than
                    generating or harvesting knowledge, disseminating to other associations and
                    people (as in "we're the best you all follow our way).



                    The most important thing in a CoP is the mindset: if members feel that they
                    better not speak their minds the way the CoP is led is wrong.



                    Rosanna Tarsiero



                    |\ _,,,---,,_
                    /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_
                    |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-'
                    '---''(_/--' `-'\_)





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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