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Cutting dovetails for a hatch frame

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  • brandonfordus
    Phew! I was a little nervous, but I finally worked up the courage to cut the dovetails in a hatch frame for my Columbia 43. The old one was an ill-fitting
    Message 1 of 16 , Jun 23, 2014
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      Phew! I was a little nervous, but I finally worked up the courage to cut the dovetails in a hatch frame for my Columbia 43. 


      The old one was an ill-fitting replacement in mahogany that had gone to rot. I spent some real money buying teak to make the replacement. Making the corners with dovetails, besides being the right thing to do, put that beautiful, expensive wood at risk. 


      It was worth it, they look great. The fit so well I kinda hated gluing them up. I wanted to show at least someone the piston fit I got on those babies.


      I also dovetailed a medicine chest for the head. Next it's six drawers for under our bunk. 


      It's fun working in the shop, but I miss being on the boat.


      Brandon

      SV Oceanus, C-43

      www.hagothlog.blogspot.com

    • Jim Muri
      Very workmanlike job, Brandon!  What sort of glue did you use on the teak?   James R. Muri Novelist, Sailor BUY: My e-Novelsat Amazon or my book site. VISIT:
      Message 2 of 16 , Jun 23, 2014
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        Very workmanlike job, Brandon!  What sort of glue did you use on the teak?
         
        James R. Muri

        Novelist, Sailor
        BUY: My e-Novels at Amazon or my book site.
        VISIT: My Literary site.  
        READ: My blog

        From: "brandonfordus@... [columbiasailingyachts]" <columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com>
        To: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Monday, June 23, 2014 10:03 PM
        Subject: CYOA - Cutting dovetails for a hatch frame

         
        Phew! I was a little nervous, but I finally worked up the courage to cut the dovetails in a hatch frame for my Columbia 43. 

        The old one was an ill-fitting replacement in mahogany that had gone to rot. I spent some real money buying teak to make the replacement. Making the corners with dovetails, besides being the right thing to do, put that beautiful, expensive wood at risk. 

        It was worth it, they look great. The fit so well I kinda hated gluing them up. I wanted to show at least someone the piston fit I got on those babies.

        I also dovetailed a medicine chest for the head. Next it's six drawers for under our bunk. 

        It's fun working in the shop, but I miss being on the boat.

        Brandon
        SV Oceanus, C-43
        www.hagothlog.blogspot.com


      • cchl74
        Nice work! Are you using one of those jigs with a router? Bruce K Challenger # 74, Ouroboros Los Lunas, NM
        Message 3 of 16 , Jun 24, 2014
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          Nice work!  Are you using one of those jigs with a router?

               Bruce K
               Challenger # 74, "Ouroboros"
               Los Lunas, NM 




          Phew! I was a little nervous, but I finally worked up the courage to cut the dovetails in a hatch frame for my Columbia 43.




          The old one was an ill-fitting replacement in mahogany that had gone to rot. I spent some real money buying teak to make the replacement. Making the corners with dovetails, besides being the right thing to do, put that beautiful, expensive wood at risk.




          It was worth it, they look great. The fit so well I kinda hated gluing them up. I wanted to show at least someone the piston fit I got on those babies.




          I also dovetailed a medicine chest for the head. Next it's six drawers for under our bunk.




          It's fun working in the shop, but I miss being on the boat.




          Brandon

          SV Oceanus, C-43

          www.hagothlog.blogspot.com

        • cjecje1
          Did you hand-cut the tails or use a jig / dovetail cutter? stephen ... On Jun 24, 2014, at 1:03 AM, brandonfordus@yahoo.com [columbiasailingyachts] wrote:
          Message 4 of 16 , Jun 24, 2014
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            Did you hand-cut the tails or use a jig / dovetail cutter?

            stephen
            ----------



            On Jun 24, 2014, at 1:03 AM, brandonfordus@... [columbiasailingyachts] wrote:


            Phew! I was a little nervous, but I finally worked up the courage to cut the dovetails in a hatch frame for my Columbia 43.

            The old one was an ill-fitting replacement in mahogany that had gone to rot. I spent some real money buying teak to make the replacement. Making the corners with dovetails, besides being the right thing to do, put that beautiful, expensive wood at risk.

            It was worth it, they look great. The fit so well I kinda hated gluing them up. I wanted to show at least someone the piston fit I got on those babies.

            I also dovetailed a medicine chest for the head. Next it's six drawers for under our bunk.

            It's fun working in the shop, but I miss being on the boat.

            Brandon
            SV Oceanus, C-43
            www.hagothlog.blogspot.com
            -------------------------------------
          • brandonfordus
            Thanks Jim. I used epoxy with cabicil about three times by volume to the epoxy; not quite to the peanut butter consistency. I also cleaned the joints with
            Message 5 of 16 , Jun 24, 2014
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              Thanks Jim. I used epoxy with cabicil about three times by volume to the epoxy; not quite to the "peanut butter" consistency. I also cleaned the joints with acetone. Two things that make teak hard to work, in my opinion, is that it splits pretty easy and most glues don't work on it. I've had pretty good luck with epoxy and since it is going to be outside, that seems like the right choice.

              One more rant about teak: I hate when it's used inside. It is too rare and expensive and there are better-looking, more common woods that work just fine out of the weather. The highest and best use of teak is outside.

              <end rant>

              That said, I've got a few items inside Oceanus that I made from teak to match the old stuff that was already there. Most of the other wood is African mahogany that I get for $4.50 a board foot from a local discount lumber yard.

              Brandon
              SV Oceanus, C-43
              Newport, Ore.
              The Log of Hagoth

            • Justin Kiteley
              Excuse me for changing the subject, but fantastic job on the deck redo! This is exactly what I m planning for this fall. Can I ask what your prep was for the
              Message 6 of 16 , Jun 24, 2014
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                Excuse me for changing the subject, but fantastic job on the deck redo!  

                This is exactly what I'm planning for this fall.  Can I ask what your prep was for the areas you painted with the Interlux Brightsides?

                The prep for my own molded non-skid will unfortunately be quite similar to what yours was.  Stripping and cleaning off a couple of layers of old paint...

                Regards,

                Justin

                s/v Lo N Slo
                HC 36 CC




                On Tue, Jun 24, 2014 at 9:32 AM, brandonfordus@... [columbiasailingyachts] <columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                 

                Thanks Jim. I used epoxy with cabicil about three times by volume to the epoxy; not quite to the "peanut butter" consistency. I also cleaned the joints with acetone. Two things that make teak hard to work, in my opinion, is that it splits pretty easy and most glues don't work on it. I've had pretty good luck with epoxy and since it is going to be outside, that seems like the right choice.


                One more rant about teak: I hate when it's used inside. It is too rare and expensive and there are better-looking, more common woods that work just fine out of the weather. The highest and best use of teak is outside.

                <end rant>

                That said, I've got a few items inside Oceanus that I made from teak to match the old stuff that was already there. Most of the other wood is African mahogany that I get for $4.50 a board foot from a local discount lumber yard.

                Brandon
                SV Oceanus, C-43
                Newport, Ore.
                The Log of Hagoth
                The Log of Hagoth
                Our new Engel Fridge/Freezer and all my fancy blocking to get it securely hung by the corners.Son-in-law Tony got a long list of wiring projects completed over th...
                Preview by Yahoo


              • Jim Muri
                Slight topic drift here - aside from the sheer craftsmanship of your and Virginia s work, I m interested in this gluing teak aspect of your projects.  I ve
                Message 7 of 16 , Jun 24, 2014
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                  Slight topic drift here - aside from the sheer craftsmanship of your and Virginia's work, I'm interested in this 'gluing teak' aspect of your projects.  I've had plenty of headaches dealing with it, as you hint at.  Googling 'gluing teak' turns up a number of discussion threads on the matter, most of which recommend the method you used.  Some other methods are also suggested, most of which include the step you used - wiping the freshly sanded surfaces with acetone first to reduce the amount of surface oils temporarily.  

                  There's a vendor of what appears to be an epoxy homolog that offers a bit different approach, in fact a somewhat contrary approach.  I'm curious as to whether anyone has tried it and the method they specify.  It's clear why old time woodwrights used joinery, bedding and trennels to put oily woods together - they lacked the exotic chemistry we have today.  
                   
                   
                   
                  James R. Muri

                  Novelist, Sailor
                  BUY: My e-Novels at Amazon or my book site.
                  VISIT: My Literary site.  
                  READ: My blog

                  From: "brandonfordus@... [columbiasailingyachts]" <columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com>
                  To: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2014 6:32 AM
                  Subject: Re: CYOA - Cutting dovetails for a hatch frame

                   
                  Thanks Jim. I used epoxy with cabicil about three times by volume to the epoxy; not quite to the "peanut butter" consistency. I also cleaned the joints with acetone. Two things that make teak hard to work, in my opinion, is that it splits pretty easy and most glues don't work on it. I've had pretty good luck with epoxy and since it is going to be outside, that seems like the right choice.

                  One more rant about teak: I hate when it's used inside. It is too rare and expensive and there are better-looking, more common woods that work just fine out of the weather. The highest and best use of teak is outside.

                  <end rant>

                  That said, I've got a few items inside Oceanus that I made from teak to match the old stuff that was already there. Most of the other wood is African mahogany that I get for $4.50 a board foot from a local discount lumber yard.

                  Brandon
                  SV Oceanus, C-43
                  Newport, Ore.
                  The Log of Hagoth



                • David Morgan
                  Nice work.   I found myself hand cutting dovetails to make behive bodies for my wife and my sister.  Hive bodies are traditionally done with box joints.  I
                  Message 8 of 16 , Jun 24, 2014
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                    Nice work.  

                    I found myself hand cutting dovetails to make behive bodies for my wife and my sister.  Hive bodies are traditionally done with box joints.  I like the hand work and practice.  It's been a while since I had done that, and the set I cut Sunday were functional, but not as tight and pretty as when I'm in practice.  
                     
                    David
                    Bremerton, WA
                    1968 C-22 #1109
                    "Eaglet"


                    On Tuesday, June 24, 2014 7:11 AM, "Justin Kiteley justin.kiteley@... [columbiasailingyachts]" <columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


                     
                    Excuse me for changing the subject, but fantastic job on the deck redo!  

                    This is exactly what I'm planning for this fall.  Can I ask what your prep was for the areas you painted with the Interlux Brightsides?

                    The prep for my own molded non-skid will unfortunately be quite similar to what yours was.  Stripping and cleaning off a couple of layers of old paint...

                    Regards,

                    Justin

                    s/v Lo N Slo
                    HC 36 CC




                    On Tue, Jun 24, 2014 at 9:32 AM, brandonfordus@... [columbiasailingyachts] <columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                     
                    Thanks Jim. I used epoxy with cabicil about three times by volume to the epoxy; not quite to the "peanut butter" consistency. I also cleaned the joints with acetone. Two things that make teak hard to work, in my opinion, is that it splits pretty easy and most glues don't work on it. I've had pretty good luck with epoxy and since it is going to be outside, that seems like the right choice.

                    One more rant about teak: I hate when it's used inside. It is too rare and expensive and there are better-looking, more common woods that work just fine out of the weather. The highest and best use of teak is outside.

                    <end rant>

                    That said, I've got a few items inside Oceanus that I made from teak to match the old stuff that was already there. Most of the other wood is African mahogany that I get for $4.50 a board foot from a local discount lumber yard.

                    Brandon
                    SV Oceanus, C-43
                    Newport, Ore.
                    The Log of Hagoth
                    The Log of Hagoth
                    Our new Engel Fridge/Freezer and all my fancy blocking to get it securely hung by the corners.Son-in-law Tony got a long list of wiring projects completed over th...
                    Preview by Yahoo




                  • Marty
                    On 06/24/2014 11:39 AM, Jim Muri irumrj@yahoo.com ... This looks interesting, thanks for posting. -- Marty ~ 74 C28 ~ Coastal North Carolina
                    Message 9 of 16 , Jun 24, 2014
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                      On 06/24/2014 11:39 AM, Jim Muri irumrj@...
                      [columbiasailingyachts] wrote:
                      > There's a vendor <http://www.smithandcompany.org/OT/UsingOT.html> of
                      > what appears to be an epoxy homolog that offers a bit different
                      > approach, in fact a somewhat contrary approach.

                      This looks interesting, thanks for posting.

                      --
                      Marty ~ '74 C28 ~ Coastal North Carolina
                    • brandonfordus
                      Nope. No jigs. I use a weird little woodworking machine from the UK called the WoodRat. Until I discovered this machine I hand cut all my dovetails. This is
                      Message 10 of 16 , Jun 25, 2014
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                        Nope. No jigs. I use a weird little woodworking machine from the UK called the WoodRat. Until I discovered this machine I hand cut all my dovetails. This is much more flexible than any jig I've come across. You can have any spacing you want and make them as big or as small as you want.

                        Brandon
                        SV Oceanus, C-43
                        Newport, Ore.
                        www.hagothlog.blogspot.com
                      • brandonfordus
                        Thanks Justin. We stripped and sanded the areas of the deck we did with Brightsides. Then wiped them down with acetone before painting. It worked pretty well.
                        Message 11 of 16 , Jun 25, 2014
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                          Thanks Justin. We stripped and sanded the areas of the deck we did with Brightsides. Then wiped them down with acetone before painting. It worked pretty well. One problem we had was puddling next to the toerail. Brightsides is pretty thin and it will seek the lowest points. You only really notice it when you're on your knees. Virginia plans on doing some touch up when she does the shiny areas in the cockpit.

                          Brandon
                          SV Oceanus, C-43
                          Newport, Ore.

                        • brandonfordus
                          Thanks. I ll be back to hand-cutting dovetails when I lose my shop. My neighbor wants to buy my WoodRat. I want to be able to make drawers, boxes and doors
                          Message 12 of 16 , Jun 25, 2014
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                            Thanks. I'll be back to hand-cutting dovetails when I lose my shop. My neighbor wants to buy my WoodRat.

                            I want to be able to make drawers, boxes and doors aboard my shop on Oceanus. I've got the tools, I just need to make a decent face vise or something to hold the work.

                            Brandon
                            SV Oceanus, C-43
                            Newport, Ore.

                          • cjecje1
                            The woodrat apparently requires ear protection - but not eye protection, eh? I used to have the patience (and the Japanese saws ) for hand cutting
                            Message 13 of 16 , Jun 25, 2014
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                              The woodrat apparently requires ear protection - but not eye protection, eh? <g>

                              I used to have the patience (and the Japanese saws <g>) for hand cutting tails but then somebody got me a dovetail cutting jig one time and I was almost instantly spoiled. <g>

                              One thing about jig-cut dovetails is that they are always too-perfect looking.

                              Oh! He must have heard me - at about ten minutes in to takes up the use of safety glasses. <g>

                              stephen
                              ----------


                              On Jun 25, 2014, at 8:06 AM, brandonfordus@... [columbiasailingyachts] wrote:

                              Nope. No jigs. I use a weird little woodworking machine from the UK called the WoodRat. Until I discovered this machine I hand cut all my dovetails. This is much more flexible than any jig I've come across. You can have any spacing you want and make them as big or as small as you want.


                              Brandon
                              SV Oceanus, C-43
                              Newport, Ore.
                              www.hagothlog.blogspot.com
                            • Justin Kiteley
                              Thanks for the details Brandon! I also have a raised molded toe rail so will probably run into the same puddling issue when painting that area. The non-skid
                              Message 14 of 16 , Jun 25, 2014
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                                Thanks for the details Brandon!  I also have a raised molded toe rail so will probably run into the same 'puddling' issue when painting that area.

                                The non-skid you used was applied last year right?  How is it holding up?  I hadn't heard of that 'eco' brand before, but it looks promising.  I'm currently comparing the advantages/disadvantages of the different kinds of non-skid out there.  I suppose my main decision factors are durability, low maintenance and good non-skid properties that don't chew up bare feet.  ;-)

                                Regards,

                                Justin
                                SV Lo N Slo
                                1982 HC 36 CC
                                Penetanguishene, Ontario


                                On Wed, Jun 25, 2014 at 8:14 AM, brandonfordus@... [columbiasailingyachts] <columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                                 

                                Thanks Justin. We stripped and sanded the areas of the deck we did with Brightsides. Then wiped them down with acetone before painting. It worked pretty well. One problem we had was puddling next to the toerail. Brightsides is pretty thin and it will seek the lowest points. You only really notice it when you're on your knees. Virginia plans on doing some touch up when she does the shiny areas in the cockpit.


                                Brandon
                                SV Oceanus, C-43
                                Newport, Ore.


                              • brandonfordus
                                I have to have glasses on to see what I m doing. Maybe Martin does it by feel with his eyes closed. Brandon
                                Message 15 of 16 , Jun 26, 2014
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                                  I have to have glasses on to see what I'm doing. Maybe Martin does it by feel with his eyes closed.

                                  Brandon
                                • brandonfordus
                                  We put the Eco non-skid on last month. We re still being careful with it. There is one little area that flaked off. It s only about 1/2 inch square. I think it
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Jun 26, 2014
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                                    We put the Eco non-skid on last month. We're still being careful with it. There is one little area that flaked off. It's only about 1/2 inch square. I think it didn't adhere well to where it was painted over some Brightsides.

                                    I really like the feel of this stuff on bare feet. I seems plenty grippy with shoes or bare feet, but I haven't run around on it when the deck is wet and pitching. We'll see. I hope it holds up because I really like it.

                                    Brandon
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