Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Atomic4 to Yanmar Conversion

Expand Messages
  • larrymcphee
    Hello. I have removed the original A4 from my 1977 Columbia 8.3 and I m replacing it with a Yanmar 2qm15. Can anyone out there tell me the angle of the
    Message 1 of 11 , Oct 14, 2013
    • 0 Attachment

      Hello.   I have removed the original A4 from my 1977 Columbia 8.3 and I'm replacing it with a Yanmar 2qm15.   Can anyone out there tell me the angle of the drive shaft in my boat.   I believe it to be 15 degrees from what I have been able to measure but it is hard to be accurate.   I've looked through the dwgs and specs that I have and haven't found it yet.   The columbia dwg for the 2qm15 yanmar calls for 12 1/2 degrees but the yanmar wasn't available as a motor option in 1977 so I'm wondering if the design angle for 1977 might be different than the angle when the yanmar became available.   I know 12 1/2 to 15 is not a lot but I would like to be as accurate as possible.   Any tips on this conversion would be appreciated.   A special thanks to Pete Malone for making me up the support brackets.

      Larry

    • Bob K
      Larry, From my 2QM15 service manual The installation angle must be 8 degrees or less when the vessel is cruising. If the tilt exceeds 8 degrees, the output
      Message 2 of 11 , Oct 14, 2013
      • 0 Attachment
        
        Larry,
         
        From my 2QM15 service manual  "The installation angle must be 8 degrees or less when the vessel is cruising. If the tilt exceeds 8 degrees, the output will decrease, the exhaust color will worsen without the speed rising, vessel speed will fall or the parts will wear abnormally, and oil consumption will increase." I also looked in the owners manual for my  1978 8.7. It does not give the installation angle but does show a drawing of the shaft as installed, but I would not use that, it may not be accurate. I think you need to mockup your your engine mounts, engine etc to see if you can fit things to match your original shaft angle, but I guess you need to know your original shaft angle from horizontal. It is almost always best to have the angle as close to horizontal as possible, get that YammerHammer as low as you can. You should also get the 2QM15 service manual.
         
        Bob K
        SASHAY Col 8.7
        Seattle, WA
         
         
         
         
         
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Monday, October 14, 2013 11:25 AM
        Subject: CYOA - Atomic4 to Yanmar Conversion

         

        Hello.   I have removed the original A4 from my 1977 Columbia 8.3 and I'm replacing it with a Yanmar 2qm15.   Can anyone out there tell me the angle of the drive shaft in my boat.   I believe it to be 15 degrees from what I have been able to measure but it is hard to be accurate.   I've looked through the dwgs and specs that I have and haven't found it yet.   The columbia dwg for the 2qm15 yanmar calls for 12 1/2 degrees but the yanmar wasn't available as a motor option in 1977 so I'm wondering if the design angle for 1977 might be different than the angle when the yanmar became available.   I know 12 1/2 to 15 is not a lot but I would like to be as accurate as possible.   Any tips on this conversion would be appreciated.   A special thanks to Pete Malone for making me up the support brackets.

        Larry

      • John Scherlowski
        Consider replacing the fuel tank. Varnish built up in the tank will eventually contaminate the diesel and ultimately clog the primary filter. John
        Message 3 of 11 , Oct 15, 2013
        • 0 Attachment
          Consider replacing the fuel tank. Varnish built up in the tank will eventually contaminate the diesel and ultimately clog the primary filter.

          John
        • MJ
          Hi Last year I had same thing done with my columbia. Fuel tank in my boat was rusted so I had it taken out and space used for storage. Behind where old tank
          Message 4 of 11 , Oct 15, 2013
          • 0 Attachment
            Hi
            Last year I had same thing done with my columbia. Fuel tank in my boat was rusted so I had it taken out and space used for storage. Behind where old tank was is 20 gal tank. You can put replacement tank in same place but due to shape that might be costly. Nice thing about your yanmar is no need for diesel return to tank. Also do u plan to seawater cool or not. I had limited funds so made it so garden hose can flush out salt water

            Michael

            Sent from my iPhone
          • larrymcphee
            My tank is weeping gasoline from somewhere in the bottom of the tank so I plan to replace it. I sail on Lake Ontario which is fresh water and it will be raw
            Message 5 of 11 , Oct 15, 2013
            • 0 Attachment

               

              My tank is weeping gasoline from somewhere in the bottom of the tank so I plan to replace it.   I sail on Lake Ontario which is fresh water and it will be raw water cooled through a strainer.   Thanks John and Michael for your replies.

              ---In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, <mjpublic@...> wrote:

              Hi
              Last year I had same thing done with my columbia. Fuel tank in my boat was rusted so I had it taken out and space used for storage. Behind where old tank was is 20 gal tank. You can put replacement tank in same place but due to shape that might be costly. Nice thing about your yanmar is no need for diesel return to tank. Also do u plan to seawater cool or not. I had limited funds so made it so garden hose can flush out salt water

              Michael

              Sent from my iPhone
            • larrymcphee
              Thanks Bob for replying. Do you have a yanmar in your 8.7? I do have the 2QM15 manual and I have 8.3 dwgs from Columbia Yacht Owners Assoc. for the Yanmar
              Message 6 of 11 , Oct 15, 2013
              • 0 Attachment

                 

                Thanks Bob for replying.  Do you have a yanmar in your 8.7?    I do have the 2QM15 manual and I have 8.3 dwgs from Columbia Yacht Owners Assoc. for the Yanmar installation but the dwgs do not match up exactly with my boat.   I was wondering if the shaft angle changed when Columbia introduced the Yanmar as an option for the 8.3 some time after 1977.   Does your 1978 manual list Yanmar as an option?   Mine says Atomic 4 and Volvo Penta only.   The angle in the Columbia dwg I have shows 12.5 degrees which is still a long way off 8 degrees but there seems to be a lot of newer 8.3's with the yanmar so I guess that angle works. 
                 
                Larry

                ---In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, <kavanb3@...> wrote:

                
                Larry,
                 
                From my 2QM15 service manual  "The installation angle must be 8 degrees or less when the vessel is cruising. If the tilt exceeds 8 degrees, the output will decrease, the exhaust color will worsen without the speed rising, vessel speed will fall or the parts will wear abnormally, and oil consumption will increase." I also looked in the owners manual for my  1978 8.7. It does not give the installation angle but does show a drawing of the shaft as installed, but I would not use that, it may not be accurate. I think you need to mockup your your engine mounts, engine etc to see if you can fit things to match your original shaft angle, but I guess you need to know your original shaft angle from horizontal. It is almost always best to have the angle as close to horizontal as possible, get that YammerHammer as low as you can. You should also get the 2QM15 service manual.
                 
                Bob K
                SASHAY Col 8.7
                Seattle, WA
                 
                 
                 
                 
                 
                 
                ----- Original Message -----
                Sent: Monday, October 14, 2013 11:25 AM
                Subject: CYOA - Atomic4 to Yanmar Conversion

                 

                Hello.   I have removed the original A4 from my 1977 Columbia 8.3 and I'm replacing it with a Yanmar 2qm15.   Can anyone out there tell me the angle of the drive shaft in my boat.   I believe it to be 15 degrees from what I have been able to measure but it is hard to be accurate.   I've looked through the dwgs and specs that I have and haven't found it yet.   The columbia dwg for the 2qm15 yanmar calls for 12 1/2 degrees but the yanmar wasn't available as a motor option in 1977 so I'm wondering if the design angle for 1977 might be different than the angle when the yanmar became available.   I know 12 1/2 to 15 is not a lot but I would like to be as accurate as possible.   Any tips on this conversion would be appreciated.   A special thanks to Pete Malone for making me up the support brackets.

                Larry

              • mikegunning@ymail.com
                Larry, When we installed the 2QM15 on our 9.6 we ran out of stringer for mounting on the original A4 stringer. The motor was longer at the back and the
                Message 7 of 11 , Oct 15, 2013
                • 0 Attachment

                  Larry,

                  When we installed the 2QM15 on our 9.6 we ran out of stringer for mounting on the original A4 stringer.  The motor was longer at the back and the transmission of the A4 extended further.  I am not sure about the 8.7, but in the 9.6 diesel we noticed that Columbia had a different set of stringers built higher in the engine compartment, further apart, and hung the motor from the stringer on 4 steel hangers mounted from the stringers.

                  We did not want to do that.  Our solution was unique.  We extended the shaft 6 inches thus placing the motor further forward that much.  We extended and filled the aft portion of the stringer with molded epoxy material.  The furthest aft lag bolts are shorter than the other bolts.  The top step of the ladder was removed.  A platform was built at the level of the second step down and as wide as the counter.  It has a hinge access.  The shortened ladder was then attached to the front engine compartment box extended 6 inches forward.

                  Two things we gained, 1st a great platform to work the lines and tail the sheets forward of the cockpit and 2nd a large hinged opening to the top of the engine compartment that allow better forward and above access to the diesel and the electric motor mounted aft of the engine.  It is at the right height that I can stand on the platform and not be impacted by the boom and it is somewhat protected from the elements.

                  Mike sv Fluke  Electric Yachts of Southern California



                  ---In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, <columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                  
                  Larry,
                   
                  From my 2QM15 service manual  "The installation angle must be 8 degrees or less when the vessel is cruising. If the tilt exceeds 8 degrees, the output will decrease, the exhaust color will worsen without the speed rising, vessel speed will fall or the parts will wear abnormally, and oil consumption will increase." I also looked in the owners manual for my  1978 8.7. It does not give the installation angle but does show a drawing of the shaft as installed, but I would not use that, it may not be accurate. I think you need to mockup your your engine mounts, engine etc to see if you can fit things to match your original shaft angle, but I guess you need to know your original shaft angle from horizontal. It is almost always best to have the angle as close to horizontal as possible, get that YammerHammer as low as you can. You should also get the 2QM15 service manual.
                   
                  Bob K
                  SASHAY Col 8.7
                  Seattle, WA
                   
                   
                   
                   
                   
                   
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  Sent: Monday, October 14, 2013 11:25 AM
                  Subject: CYOA - Atomic4 to Yanmar Conversion

                   

                  Hello.   I have removed the original A4 from my 1977 Columbia 8.3 and I'm replacing it with a Yanmar 2qm15.   Can anyone out there tell me the angle of the drive shaft in my boat.   I believe it to be 15 degrees from what I have been able to measure but it is hard to be accurate.   I've looked through the dwgs and specs that I have and haven't found it yet.   The columbia dwg for the 2qm15 yanmar calls for 12 1/2 degrees but the yanmar wasn't available as a motor option in 1977 so I'm wondering if the design angle for 1977 might be different than the angle when the yanmar became available.   I know 12 1/2 to 15 is not a lot but I would like to be as accurate as possible.   Any tips on this conversion would be appreciated.   A special thanks to Pete Malone for making me up the support brackets.

                  Larry

                • pajama1lama
                  Unless you plan on changing the tube angle and re-bore the shaft log so the cutless bearing can go at a different angle, you will need to set the engine to
                  Message 8 of 11 , Oct 16, 2013
                  • 0 Attachment

                    Unless you plan on changing the tube angle and re-bore the shaft log so the cutless bearing can go at a different angle, you will need to set the engine to align with the original build. The Yanmar fitting instructions show how this is done. I can send a copy if that helps, just say so or email off list.

                    Last year, I looked at an 8.3 in Deltaville, and determined that there is timber in the original A-4 set up to accept the 2QM15, but the diesel is a taller engine. But it will easily fit. Memory serves me to say that I took a 2QM15 out of 8.3 boat that Tim Malcolm was converting to electric a few years back, and the mounting was virtually identical to the mounting in my own 9.6.

                    Can't comment on shaft length, but it may differ by engine.

                    Larry, the drawings you scanned and sent me last year show the elevation layout of the brackets relative to the shaft centerline. You will need to construct the shaft centerline with a wire passing through a cone in the cutless bearing, passing up the tube and pulled tight and centered as it leaves the tube where visible inside the engine compartment. A sliding cross bar spanning across the front of the engine bay is where you will bend and attach the wire after it is tightened. Then, use straight edge resting on wire across engine bay, and measure to equalize vertical offset. Draw the line on the side wall on both sides. That is the true shaft angle you will work to in setting the mounts. Spirit levels mean nothing in this work, unless you can find a way to perfectly level the boat to its DLWL, which I doubt is practical. A laser shooting the tube center would be helpful, but not as easy to use as a piece of tawt wire.

                    Use the measurements from the shop drawing to draw the mounting centers of the brackets, as shown on the shop drawing. Be prepared to set and adjust with bolts on the resilient mounts. You need to find the maximum forward position, so your engine box covers the engine, but closes. Trying to think if there is a way I can get you a reference dimension from the forward end of timber to the flywheel. Forget that, look at the shop drawing, and it does show offsets, if I remember correctly. I am looking through my files, to see if I can find where I saved the copy you sent.

                    ~ pete    



                    ---In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, <mike@...> wrote:

                    Larry,

                    When we installed the 2QM15 on our 9.6 we ran out of stringer for mounting on the original A4 stringer.  The motor was longer at the back and the transmission of the A4 extended further.  I am not sure about the 8.7, but in the 9.6 diesel we noticed that Columbia had a different set of stringers built higher in the engine compartment, further apart, and hung the motor from the stringer on 4 steel hangers mounted from the stringers.

                    We did not want to do that.  Our solution was unique.  We extended the shaft 6 inches thus placing the motor further forward that much.  We extended and filled the aft portion of the stringer with molded epoxy material.  The furthest aft lag bolts are shorter than the other bolts.  The top step of the ladder was removed.  A platform was built at the level of the second step down and as wide as the counter.  It has a hinge access.  The shortened ladder was then attached to the front engine compartment box extended 6 inches forward.

                    Two things we gained, 1st a great platform to work the lines and tail the sheets forward of the cockpit and 2nd a large hinged opening to the top of the engine compartment that allow better forward and above access to the diesel and the electric motor mounted aft of the engine.  It is at the right height that I can stand on the platform and not be impacted by the boom and it is somewhat protected from the elements.

                    Mike sv Fluke  Electric Yachts of Southern California



                    ---In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, <columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                    
                    Larry,
                     
                    From my 2QM15 service manual  "The installation angle must be 8 degrees or less when the vessel is cruising. If the tilt exceeds 8 degrees, the output will decrease, the exhaust color will worsen without the speed rising, vessel speed will fall or the parts will wear abnormally, and oil consumption will increase." I also looked in the owners manual for my  1978 8.7. It does not give the installation angle but does show a drawing of the shaft as installed, but I would not use that, it may not be accurate. I think you need to mockup your your engine mounts, engine etc to see if you can fit things to match your original shaft angle, but I guess you need to know your original shaft angle from horizontal. It is almost always best to have the angle as close to horizontal as possible, get that YammerHammer as low as you can. You should also get the 2QM15 service manual.
                     
                    Bob K
                    SASHAY Col 8.7
                    Seattle, WA
                     
                     
                     
                     
                     
                     
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    Sent: Monday, October 14, 2013 11:25 AM
                    Subject: CYOA - Atomic4 to Yanmar Conversion

                     

                    Hello.   I have removed the original A4 from my 1977 Columbia 8.3 and I'm replacing it with a Yanmar 2qm15.   Can anyone out there tell me the angle of the drive shaft in my boat.   I believe it to be 15 degrees from what I have been able to measure but it is hard to be accurate.   I've looked through the dwgs and specs that I have and haven't found it yet.   The columbia dwg for the 2qm15 yanmar calls for 12 1/2 degrees but the yanmar wasn't available as a motor option in 1977 so I'm wondering if the design angle for 1977 might be different than the angle when the yanmar became available.   I know 12 1/2 to 15 is not a lot but I would like to be as accurate as possible.   Any tips on this conversion would be appreciated.   A special thanks to Pete Malone for making me up the support brackets.

                    Larry

                  • pajama1lama
                    Attached is my reference copy of the drawing you sent me last year. It locates the bracket holes in reference to the prop shaft centerline, angle of 12 1/2
                    Message 9 of 11 , Oct 16, 2013
                    • 1 Attachment
                    • 504 KB

                     Attached is my reference copy of the drawing you sent me last year.

                    It locates the bracket holes in reference to the prop shaft centerline, angle of 12 1/2 degrees from horizontal, and backset from 222.75 frame station.

                    Draw that on the side wall on each side, relative to the centerline located with the wire and transposed to the wall(s), and you will have located the brackets in the manner that Columbia intended for mounting the 2QM15 in your boat. 

                    ~ pete 



                    ---In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, <columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                    Unless you plan on changing the tube angle and re-bore the shaft log so the cutless bearing can go at a different angle, you will need to set the engine to align with the original build. The Yanmar fitting instructions show how this is done. I can send a copy if that helps, just say so or email off list.

                    Last year, I looked at an 8.3 in Deltaville, and determined that there is timber in the original A-4 set up to accept the 2QM15, but the diesel is a taller engine. But it will easily fit. Memory serves me to say that I took a 2QM15 out of 8.3 boat that Tim Malcolm was converting to electric a few years back, and the mounting was virtually identical to the mounting in my own 9.6.

                    Can't comment on shaft length, but it may differ by engine.

                    Larry, the drawings you scanned and sent me last year show the elevation layout of the brackets relative to the shaft centerline. You will need to construct the shaft centerline with a wire passing through a cone in the cutless bearing, passing up the tube and pulled tight and centered as it leaves the tube where visible inside the engine compartment. A sliding cross bar spanning across the front of the engine bay is where you will bend and attach the wire after it is tightened. Then, use straight edge resting on wire across engine bay, and measure to equalize vertical offset. Draw the line on the side wall on both sides. That is the true shaft angle you will work to in setting the mounts. Spirit levels mean nothing in this work, unless you can find a way to perfectly level the boat to its DLWL, which I doubt is practical. A laser shooting the tube center would be helpful, but not as easy to use as a piece of tawt wire.

                    Use the measurements from the shop drawing to draw the mounting centers of the brackets, as shown on the shop drawing. Be prepared to set and adjust with bolts on the resilient mounts. You need to find the maximum forward position, so your engine box covers the engine, but closes. Trying to think if there is a way I can get you a reference dimension from the forward end of timber to the flywheel. Forget that, look at the shop drawing, and it does show offsets, if I remember correctly. I am looking through my files, to see if I can find where I saved the copy you sent.

                    ~ pete    



                    ---In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, <mike@...> wrote:

                    Larry,

                    When we installed the 2QM15 on our 9.6 we ran out of stringer for mounting on the original A4 stringer.  The motor was longer at the back and the transmission of the A4 extended further.  I am not sure about the 8.7, but in the 9.6 diesel we noticed that Columbia had a different set of stringers built higher in the engine compartment, further apart, and hung the motor from the stringer on 4 steel hangers mounted from the stringers.

                    We did not want to do that.  Our solution was unique.  We extended the shaft 6 inches thus placing the motor further forward that much.  We extended and filled the aft portion of the stringer with molded epoxy material.  The furthest aft lag bolts are shorter than the other bolts.  The top step of the ladder was removed.  A platform was built at the level of the second step down and as wide as the counter.  It has a hinge access.  The shortened ladder was then attached to the front engine compartment box extended 6 inches forward.

                    Two things we gained, 1st a great platform to work the lines and tail the sheets forward of the cockpit and 2nd a large hinged opening to the top of the engine compartment that allow better forward and above access to the diesel and the electric motor mounted aft of the engine.  It is at the right height that I can stand on the platform and not be impacted by the boom and it is somewhat protected from the elements.

                    Mike sv Fluke  Electric Yachts of Southern California



                    ---In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, <columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                    
                    Larry,
                     
                    From my 2QM15 service manual  "The installation angle must be 8 degrees or less when the vessel is cruising. If the tilt exceeds 8 degrees, the output will decrease, the exhaust color will worsen without the speed rising, vessel speed will fall or the parts will wear abnormally, and oil consumption will increase." I also looked in the owners manual for my  1978 8.7. It does not give the installation angle but does show a drawing of the shaft as installed, but I would not use that, it may not be accurate. I think you need to mockup your your engine mounts, engine etc to see if you can fit things to match your original shaft angle, but I guess you need to know your original shaft angle from horizontal. It is almost always best to have the angle as close to horizontal as possible, get that YammerHammer as low as you can. You should also get the 2QM15 service manual.
                     
                    Bob K
                    SASHAY Col 8.7
                    Seattle, WA
                     
                     
                     
                     
                     
                     
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    Sent: Monday, October 14, 2013 11:25 AM
                    Subject: CYOA - Atomic4 to Yanmar Conversion

                     

                    Hello.   I have removed the original A4 from my 1977 Columbia 8.3 and I'm replacing it with a Yanmar 2qm15.   Can anyone out there tell me the angle of the drive shaft in my boat.   I believe it to be 15 degrees from what I have been able to measure but it is hard to be accurate.   I've looked through the dwgs and specs that I have and haven't found it yet.   The columbia dwg for the 2qm15 yanmar calls for 12 1/2 degrees but the yanmar wasn't available as a motor option in 1977 so I'm wondering if the design angle for 1977 might be different than the angle when the yanmar became available.   I know 12 1/2 to 15 is not a lot but I would like to be as accurate as possible.   Any tips on this conversion would be appreciated.   A special thanks to Pete Malone for making me up the support brackets.

                    Larry

                  • larrymcphee
                    Thanks Pete. I have transposed the center line of the shaft to the side walls and found the angle to be 15 degrees, not 12.5 degrees but thats likely no big
                    Message 10 of 11 , Oct 16, 2013
                    • 0 Attachment

                       

                      Thanks Pete.   I have transposed the center line of the shaft to the side walls and found the angle to be 15 degrees, not 12.5 degrees but thats likely no big deal as the flexible mounts are adjustable.   The dwg I sent you suggests the rear engine mounts on the engine are 5 7/16 inches higher than the front mounts.   In fact on my engine the difference is only 2.5 inches.   I can adjust the mounts on the engine but not enough to match the dwg.   So, what I'm going to do is reference everything to the transposed drive shaft line using the actual dimensions of my engine.   I'll set the front mounts in 2.5 inches as per the dwg and go from there.   My thinking was that perhaps the 8.3 was redesigned with the introduction of the yanmar option but I'll get it lined up some how.   Still hoping to come down the 1st week of Nov. if the weather is good and it fits in with Larry's agenda. 


                      ---In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, <petemalone@...> wrote:

                       Attached is my reference copy of the drawing you sent me last year.

                      It locates the bracket holes in reference to the prop shaft centerline, angle of 12 1/2 degrees from horizontal, and backset from 222.75 frame station.

                      Draw that on the side wall on each side, relative to the centerline located with the wire and transposed to the wall(s), and you will have located the brackets in the manner that Columbia intended for mounting the 2QM15 in your boat. 

                      ~ pete 



                      ---In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, <columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                      Unless you plan on changing the tube angle and re-bore the shaft log so the cutless bearing can go at a different angle, you will need to set the engine to align with the original build. The Yanmar fitting instructions show how this is done. I can send a copy if that helps, just say so or email off list.

                      Last year, I looked at an 8.3 in Deltaville, and determined that there is timber in the original A-4 set up to accept the 2QM15, but the diesel is a taller engine. But it will easily fit. Memory serves me to say that I took a 2QM15 out of 8.3 boat that Tim Malcolm was converting to electric a few years back, and the mounting was virtually identical to the mounting in my own 9.6.

                      Can't comment on shaft length, but it may differ by engine.

                      Larry, the drawings you scanned and sent me last year show the elevation layout of the brackets relative to the shaft centerline. You will need to construct the shaft centerline with a wire passing through a cone in the cutless bearing, passing up the tube and pulled tight and centered as it leaves the tube where visible inside the engine compartment. A sliding cross bar spanning across the front of the engine bay is where you will bend and attach the wire after it is tightened. Then, use straight edge resting on wire across engine bay, and measure to equalize vertical offset. Draw the line on the side wall on both sides. That is the true shaft angle you will work to in setting the mounts. Spirit levels mean nothing in this work, unless you can find a way to perfectly level the boat to its DLWL, which I doubt is practical. A laser shooting the tube center would be helpful, but not as easy to use as a piece of tawt wire.

                      Use the measurements from the shop drawing to draw the mounting centers of the brackets, as shown on the shop drawing. Be prepared to set and adjust with bolts on the resilient mounts. You need to find the maximum forward position, so your engine box covers the engine, but closes. Trying to think if there is a way I can get you a reference dimension from the forward end of timber to the flywheel. Forget that, look at the shop drawing, and it does show offsets, if I remember correctly. I am looking through my files, to see if I can find where I saved the copy you sent.

                      ~ pete    



                      ---In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, <mike@...> wrote:

                      Larry,

                      When we installed the 2QM15 on our 9.6 we ran out of stringer for mounting on the original A4 stringer.  The motor was longer at the back and the transmission of the A4 extended further.  I am not sure about the 8.7, but in the 9.6 diesel we noticed that Columbia had a different set of stringers built higher in the engine compartment, further apart, and hung the motor from the stringer on 4 steel hangers mounted from the stringers.

                      We did not want to do that.  Our solution was unique.  We extended the shaft 6 inches thus placing the motor further forward that much.  We extended and filled the aft portion of the stringer with molded epoxy material.  The furthest aft lag bolts are shorter than the other bolts.  The top step of the ladder was removed.  A platform was built at the level of the second step down and as wide as the counter.  It has a hinge access.  The shortened ladder was then attached to the front engine compartment box extended 6 inches forward.

                      Two things we gained, 1st a great platform to work the lines and tail the sheets forward of the cockpit and 2nd a large hinged opening to the top of the engine compartment that allow better forward and above access to the diesel and the electric motor mounted aft of the engine.  It is at the right height that I can stand on the platform and not be impacted by the boom and it is somewhat protected from the elements.

                      Mike sv Fluke  Electric Yachts of Southern California



                      ---In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, <columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                      
                      Larry,
                       
                      From my 2QM15 service manual  "The installation angle must be 8 degrees or less when the vessel is cruising. If the tilt exceeds 8 degrees, the output will decrease, the exhaust color will worsen without the speed rising, vessel speed will fall or the parts will wear abnormally, and oil consumption will increase." I also looked in the owners manual for my  1978 8.7. It does not give the installation angle but does show a drawing of the shaft as installed, but I would not use that, it may not be accurate. I think you need to mockup your your engine mounts, engine etc to see if you can fit things to match your original shaft angle, but I guess you need to know your original shaft angle from horizontal. It is almost always best to have the angle as close to horizontal as possible, get that YammerHammer as low as you can. You should also get the 2QM15 service manual.
                       
                      Bob K
                      SASHAY Col 8.7
                      Seattle, WA
                       
                       
                       
                       
                       
                       
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      Sent: Monday, October 14, 2013 11:25 AM
                      Subject: CYOA - Atomic4 to Yanmar Conversion

                       

                      Hello.   I have removed the original A4 from my 1977 Columbia 8.3 and I'm replacing it with a Yanmar 2qm15.   Can anyone out there tell me the angle of the drive shaft in my boat.   I believe it to be 15 degrees from what I have been able to measure but it is hard to be accurate.   I've looked through the dwgs and specs that I have and haven't found it yet.   The columbia dwg for the 2qm15 yanmar calls for 12 1/2 degrees but the yanmar wasn't available as a motor option in 1977 so I'm wondering if the design angle for 1977 might be different than the angle when the yanmar became available.   I know 12 1/2 to 15 is not a lot but I would like to be as accurate as possible.   Any tips on this conversion would be appreciated.   A special thanks to Pete Malone for making me up the support brackets.

                      Larry

                    • pajama1lama
                      Hi, Larry - Maybe we are tangled up in references that don t matter. Please bear with me, as I try to find a way to write out what I m thinking, and the actual
                      Message 11 of 11 , Oct 19, 2013
                      • 0 Attachment

                        Hi, Larry -

                        Maybe we are tangled up in references that don't matter.

                        Please bear with me, as I try to find a way to write out what I'm thinking, and the actual approach I would use.

                        Unless you intend to alter the shaft tube and bearing angle, you will have to bring the engine inline with the shaft centerline, regardless what number we think the shaft angle "should" be, or the engine angle should be.

                        So, however you are measuring angle, and whatever part of the boat you are using to reference to the shaft line, really only matters in so far as the prop shaft centerline and the transmission output shaft centerline are on the same center. Numbers and references don't matter, in this sense.

                        Where the number is significant is in keeping Yanmar's criteria for proper operation.

                        A millwright would not concern himself with the numerical value of the angle, when connecting the engine output to the shaft, because the existing installation of bearing and tube will dictate where the transmission output shaft centerline will sit. So, we have "what is", and we have to work to that, but it would be nice to know if it meets the criteria Yanmar set for the range of "what should be".

                        In looking at the reference drawing, I would be careful about assuming the backbone timber is giving a good reference over a short distance. We need that line to be carried forward, to make it really mean more, overall.

                        Since the art of fiberglassing over plywood backbone stringers is inexact work, and leaves uneven ends and edges, it will help to be sure that you have a long, straight reference to take that angle measurement from, if you really want to know the angle. Yanmar says 8 to 13 degrees. I am thinking your 15 degree measurement has an error, somehow, but you are the one that wants to know for sure, so what I aim to do is reduce the error by increasing the reliability of the baseline, by averaging it over a longer length looking forward from the engine bay.

                        The line in the drawing that represents the horizontal that the 12 1/2 degrees is measured from is actually supposed to be a parallel of the designed LWL.

                        If you take up the cabin floorboards, and run a hard wire from the engine compartment forward, to the cabin fwd bulkhead, with it kissing the tops of the thwarts (aka floor timbers), it will give a fair reference. Then you can measure angle from the other wire coming through the center of the tube, and the wire parallel to supposed LWL (tops of backbone are supposed to be parallel to LWL). Again, all this will tell you is the actual bearing and tube angle. Centerline of bearing and tube will be centerline of shaft. If it is less than 13, Yanmar is happy. If not, you have to decide what makes you happy.

                        Finally, it would be fairly easy for someone who has an 8.3 with a 2QM15 in it to place a leveling protractor on the flats of the cylinder head fore-and-aft, and get an angle. I will do that on my 9.6 next time I go to the boat, just to know the engine angle. Not sure the 8.3 and 9.6 are supposed to have the same angle, but that may be the case.

                        I can telephone you if you want, and we can discuss, if you think it will be less confusing. I have your number from last year. Trouble is, people are often more confused by what I say than what I write, if you believe that.

                        Let me know if you want a call. 

                        BTW, I am talking to LW about cruise dates, and maybe if you can come down again, we can go sailing together.

                        It would be great to meet face to face.

                        Cheers

                        ~ pete

                         

                         



                        ---In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, <columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                         

                        Thanks Pete.   I have transposed the center line of the shaft to the side walls and found the angle to be 15 degrees, not 12.5 degrees but thats likely no big deal as the flexible mounts are adjustable.   The dwg I sent you suggests the rear engine mounts on the engine are 5 7/16 inches higher than the front mounts.   In fact on my engine the difference is only 2.5 inches.   I can adjust the mounts on the engine but not enough to match the dwg.   So, what I'm going to do is reference everything to the transposed drive shaft line using the actual dimensions of my engine.   I'll set the front mounts in 2.5 inches as per the dwg and go from there.   My thinking was that perhaps the 8.3 was redesigned with the introduction of the yanmar option but I'll get it lined up some how.   Still hoping to come down the 1st week of Nov. if the weather is good and it fits in with Larry's agenda. 


                        ---In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, <petemalone@...> wrote:

                         Attached is my reference copy of the drawing you sent me last year.

                        It locates the bracket holes in reference to the prop shaft centerline, angle of 12 1/2 degrees from horizontal, and backset from 222.75 frame station.

                        Draw that on the side wall on each side, relative to the centerline located with the wire and transposed to the wall(s), and you will have located the brackets in the manner that Columbia intended for mounting the 2QM15 in your boat. 

                        ~ pete 



                        ---In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, <columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                        Unless you plan on changing the tube angle and re-bore the shaft log so the cutless bearing can go at a different angle, you will need to set the engine to align with the original build. The Yanmar fitting instructions show how this is done. I can send a copy if that helps, just say so or email off list.

                        Last year, I looked at an 8.3 in Deltaville, and determined that there is timber in the original A-4 set up to accept the 2QM15, but the diesel is a taller engine. But it will easily fit. Memory serves me to say that I took a 2QM15 out of 8.3 boat that Tim Malcolm was converting to electric a few years back, and the mounting was virtually identical to the mounting in my own 9.6.

                        Can't comment on shaft length, but it may differ by engine.

                        Larry, the drawings you scanned and sent me last year show the elevation layout of the brackets relative to the shaft centerline. You will need to construct the shaft centerline with a wire passing through a cone in the cutless bearing, passing up the tube and pulled tight and centered as it leaves the tube where visible inside the engine compartment. A sliding cross bar spanning across the front of the engine bay is where you will bend and attach the wire after it is tightened. Then, use straight edge resting on wire across engine bay, and measure to equalize vertical offset. Draw the line on the side wall on both sides. That is the true shaft angle you will work to in setting the mounts. Spirit levels mean nothing in this work, unless you can find a way to perfectly level the boat to its DLWL, which I doubt is practical. A laser shooting the tube center would be helpful, but not as easy to use as a piece of tawt wire.

                        Use the measurements from the shop drawing to draw the mounting centers of the brackets, as shown on the shop drawing. Be prepared to set and adjust with bolts on the resilient mounts. You need to find the maximum forward position, so your engine box covers the engine, but closes. Trying to think if there is a way I can get you a reference dimension from the forward end of timber to the flywheel. Forget that, look at the shop drawing, and it does show offsets, if I remember correctly. I am looking through my files, to see if I can find where I saved the copy you sent.

                        ~ pete    



                        ---In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, <mike@...> wrote:

                        Larry,

                        When we installed the 2QM15 on our 9.6 we ran out of stringer for mounting on the original A4 stringer.  The motor was longer at the back and the transmission of the A4 extended further.  I am not sure about the 8.7, but in the 9.6 diesel we noticed that Columbia had a different set of stringers built higher in the engine compartment, further apart, and hung the motor from the stringer on 4 steel hangers mounted from the stringers.

                        We did not want to do that.  Our solution was unique.  We extended the shaft 6 inches thus placing the motor further forward that much.  We extended and filled the aft portion of the stringer with molded epoxy material.  The furthest aft lag bolts are shorter than the other bolts.  The top step of the ladder was removed.  A platform was built at the level of the second step down and as wide as the counter.  It has a hinge access.  The shortened ladder was then attached to the front engine compartment box extended 6 inches forward.

                        Two things we gained, 1st a great platform to work the lines and tail the sheets forward of the cockpit and 2nd a large hinged opening to the top of the engine compartment that allow better forward and above access to the diesel and the electric motor mounted aft of the engine.  It is at the right height that I can stand on the platform and not be impacted by the boom and it is somewhat protected from the elements.

                        Mike sv Fluke  Electric Yachts of Southern California



                        ---In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, <columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                        
                        Larry,
                         
                        From my 2QM15 service manual  "The installation angle must be 8 degrees or less when the vessel is cruising. If the tilt exceeds 8 degrees, the output will decrease, the exhaust color will worsen without the speed rising, vessel speed will fall or the parts will wear abnormally, and oil consumption will increase." I also looked in the owners manual for my  1978 8.7. It does not give the installation angle but does show a drawing of the shaft as installed, but I would not use that, it may not be accurate. I think you need to mockup your your engine mounts, engine etc to see if you can fit things to match your original shaft angle, but I guess you need to know your original shaft angle from horizontal. It is almost always best to have the angle as close to horizontal as possible, get that YammerHammer as low as you can. You should also get the 2QM15 service manual.
                         
                        Bob K
                        SASHAY Col 8.7
                        Seattle, WA
                         
                         
                         
                         
                         
                         
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        Sent: Monday, October 14, 2013 11:25 AM
                        Subject: CYOA - Atomic4 to Yanmar Conversion

                         

                        Hello.   I have removed the original A4 from my 1977 Columbia 8.3 and I'm replacing it with a Yanmar 2qm15.   Can anyone out there tell me the angle of the drive shaft in my boat.   I believe it to be 15 degrees from what I have been able to measure but it is hard to be accurate.   I've looked through the dwgs and specs that I have and haven't found it yet.   The columbia dwg for the 2qm15 yanmar calls for 12 1/2 degrees but the yanmar wasn't available as a motor option in 1977 so I'm wondering if the design angle for 1977 might be different than the angle when the yanmar became available.   I know 12 1/2 to 15 is not a lot but I would like to be as accurate as possible.   Any tips on this conversion would be appreciated.   A special thanks to Pete Malone for making me up the support brackets.

                        Larry

                      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.