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Re: My plan to replace the core of my 9.6 cabin top with PurpleHeart

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  • Tim Malcolm
    Jeff - I use a lot of purpleheart. It s very dense, and suposedly rot resistant. Yellowheart and greenheart are very similar species with the same general
    Message 1 of 7 , Aug 15, 2013
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      Jeff -

      I use a lot of purpleheart. It's very dense, and suposedly rot
      resistant. Yellowheart and greenheart are very similar species with the
      same general properties. Padouk is also very rot resistant but stains
      red if left exposed. It's also relatively expensive and may not be the
      best choice for what youe are trying to achieve. FWIW, price out some
      alternatives, like sinker cypress, before making a final choice.

      As far as application goes, have you considered rewsawing into thin
      strips and cold molding over the top of the cabin? The form is already
      there (ie the cabin top) and the cold molding technique produces a very
      strong lamination.

      --Tim
    • jeffkuthy
      Tim,      Sounds like a good suggestion even for the Divinylcell solution! Then restore interior by removing rotten balsa using the old deck and cabintop
      Message 2 of 7 , Aug 15, 2013
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        Tim,
             Sounds like a good suggestion even for the Divinylcell solution! Then restore interior by removing rotten balsa using the old deck and cabintop fiberglass as an inner liner.
        Thanks
        Tim


        Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S®4



        -------- Original message --------
        From: Tim Malcolm <tim@...>
        Date: 08/15/2013 10:39 AM (GMT-05:00)
        To: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: CYOA - Re: My plan to replace the core of my 9.6 cabin top with PurpleHeart


         

        Jeff -

        I use a lot of purpleheart. It's very dense, and suposedly rot
        resistant. Yellowheart and greenheart are very similar species with the
        same general properties. Padouk is also very rot resistant but stains
        red if left exposed. It's also relatively expensive and may not be the
        best choice for what youe are trying to achieve. FWIW, price out some
        alternatives, like sinker cypress, before making a final choice.

        As far as application goes, have you considered rewsawing into thin
        strips and cold molding over the top of the cabin? The form is already
        there (ie the cabin top) and the cold molding technique produces a very
        strong lamination.

        --Tim

      • Tim Malcolm
        ... took down ... then ... posted ... I did a side deck from inside the cabin a few years ago. Similar to what Geoff described, but never got around to
        Message 3 of 7 , Aug 16, 2013
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          > I do not remember who posted it but there was one of the group around
          > a year ago who did a major rebuild like you are talking about. He
          took down
          > the whole cabin header and redid the inner layer from the bottom and
          then
          > put a new header over that looked fantastic. When he did the job he
          posted
          > a lot of pics and descriptions of how to do everything he did as well.

          I did a side deck from inside the cabin a few years ago. Similar to what
          Geoff described, but never got around to covering things up with a new
          header. It wasn't that difficult really, just awkward and labor intensive.

          The original posting is here:
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/columbiasailingyachts/message/119286


          and pics are in this album:
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/columbiasailingyachts/photos/album/1784889769/pic/list?mode=tn%e2%88%a8der=ordinal&start=21&count=20&dir=asc

          --Tim
        • jeff kuthy
          TIm, Thanks for the info.      I do have one question though.  How did you get the top side of the balsa core saturated with resin prior to installing it
          Message 4 of 7 , Aug 17, 2013
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            TIm,
            Thanks for the info.
                 I do have one question though.
             How did you get the top side of the balsa core saturated with resin prior to installing it with thickened epoxy?
            Thanks
            Jeff K.



            From: Tim Malcolm <tim@...>
            To: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Friday, August 16, 2013 11:55 PM
            Subject: CYOA - Re: My plan to replace the core of my 9.6 cabin top with PurpleHeart

             
            > I do not remember who posted it but there was one of the group around
            > a year ago who did a major rebuild like you are talking about. He
            took down
            > the whole cabin header and redid the inner layer from the bottom and
            then
            > put a new header over that looked fantastic. When he did the job he
            posted
            > a lot of pics and descriptions of how to do everything he did as well.

            I did a side deck from inside the cabin a few years ago. Similar to what
            Geoff described, but never got around to covering things up with a new
            header. It wasn't that difficult really, just awkward and labor intensive.

            The original posting is here:
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/columbiasailingyachts/message/119286

            and pics are in this album:
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/columbiasailingyachts/photos/album/1784889769/pic/list?mode=tn∨der=ordinal&start=21&count=20&dir=asc

            --Tim


          • Jeffrey Kuthy
            Tim, If you used almost two gallons of resin, it sounds as if you did get alot of wetout with the balsa. I have come to the conclusion that the core on my 9.6
            Message 5 of 7 , Aug 17, 2013
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              Tim,
              If you used almost two gallons of resin, it sounds as if you did get alot of wetout with the balsa.
              I have come to the conclusion that the core on my 9.6 was repaired in the 90s from the underneath without proper wetout of the topside of the balsa prior to glassing it into place from the bottom. Balsa core gains strength from absorption of the resin that is applied to it. With help from gravity the resin bleeds down into the balsa pores, giving the core great strength and minimizes the chance of water entering from the topside of the core. The water was introduced to the balsa core because of faulty thru-bolting and wood screws that exposed the unprotected core. If there are voids of resin coverage in the balsa core and it is exposed to water, it will swell as it sucks up the moisture. Eventually rot and cracks form in the gelcoat and outer glass from the swelling and weakness.

              I really appreciate your replies.

              Thankyou very much!
              Jeff K.


              Sent with AquaMail for Android
              http://www.aqua-mail.com


              On August 17, 2013 9:18:18 AM jeff kuthy wrote:

               

              TIm,
              Thanks for the info.
                   I do have one question though.
               How did you get the top side of the balsa core saturated with resin prior to installing it with thickened epoxy?
              Thanks
              Jeff K.



              From: Tim Malcolm <tim@...>
              To: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Friday, August 16, 2013 11:55 PM
              Subject: CYOA - Re: My plan to replace the core of my 9.6 cabin top with PurpleHeart

               
              > I do not remember who posted it but there was one of the group around
              > a year ago who did a major rebuild like you are talking about. He
              took down
              > the whole cabin header and redid the inner layer from the bottom and
              then
              > put a new header over that looked fantastic. When he did the job he
              posted
              > a lot of pics and descriptions of how to do everything he did as well.

              I did a side deck from inside the cabin a few years ago. Similar to what
              Geoff described, but never got around to covering things up with a new
              header. It wasn't that difficult really, just awkward and labor intensive.

              The original posting is here:
              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/columbiasailingyachts/message/119286

              and pics are in this album:
              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/columbiasailingyachts/photos/album/1784889769/pic/list?mode=tn∨der=ordinal&start=21&count=20&dir=asc

              --Tim


            • tmalcolm
              If memory serves .... it was as just trowel thickened epoxy onto the deck underside and slosh unthickened epoxy onto the balsa. Then I pressed the balsa core
              Message 6 of 7 , Aug 17, 2013
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                If memory serves .... it was as just trowel thickened epoxy onto the deck underside and slosh unthickened epoxy onto the balsa. Then I pressed the balsa core up into the thickened epoxy and used the inside skin with shims and vertical sticks to keep everything pressed together.
                Instead of bonding on the old skin, I did a new epoxy glass lamination. 1st trowel some thickened epoxy onto the balsa core, then wet out layers of glass cloth, mat , roving etc and press them into the thickened epoxy (I rollered off excess epoxy). Finally,I smoothed on a layeer of peel ply over the lamination (actually a DIY version ... cling film), wedged the old skin over the lamination and let it all cure.

                Doing it again, I'd use shower curtain as DIY peel ply. Cheaper than the real thing and more effective than cling film.


                --Tim

                --- In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, jeff kuthy <jeffkuthy@...> wrote:
                >
                > TIm,
                > Thanks for the info.
                >      I do have one question though.
                >  How did you get the top side of the balsa core saturated with resin prior to installing it with thickened epoxy?
                > Thanks
                > Jeff K.
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > ________________________________
                > From: Tim Malcolm <tim@...>
                > To: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Friday, August 16, 2013 11:55 PM
                > Subject: CYOA - Re: My plan to replace the core of my 9.6 cabin top with PurpleHeart
                >
                >
                >
                >  
                > > I do not remember who posted it but there was one of the group around
                > > a year ago who did a major rebuild like you are talking about. He
                > took down
                > > the whole cabin header and redid the inner layer from the bottom and
                > then
                > > put a new header over that looked fantastic. When he did the job he
                > posted
                > > a lot of pics and descriptions of how to do everything he did as well.
                >
                > I did a side deck from inside the cabin a few years ago. Similar to what
                > Geoff described, but never got around to covering things up with a new
                > header. It wasn't that difficult really, just awkward and labor intensive.
                >
                > The original posting is here:
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/columbiasailingyachts/message/119286
                >
                > and pics are in this album:
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/columbiasailingyachts/photos/album/1784889769/pic/list?mode=tn%c3%a2%c2%88%c2%a8der=ordinal&start=21&count=20&dir=asc
                >
                > --Tim
                >
              • tmalcolm
                My side deck recore was the result of poor chainplate sealing and leaking genoa track bolt holes. An ounce of prevention!! --Tim
                Message 7 of 7 , Aug 17, 2013
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                  My side deck recore was the result of poor chainplate sealing and leaking genoa track bolt holes.
                  An ounce of prevention!!

                  --Tim


                  --- In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, Jeffrey Kuthy <jeffkuthy@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Tim,
                  > If you used almost two gallons of resin, it sounds as if you did get
                  > alot of wetout with the balsa.
                  > I have come to the conclusion that the core on my 9.6 was repaired in
                  > the 90s from the underneath without proper wetout of the topside of the
                  > balsa prior to glassing it into place from the bottom. Balsa core gains
                  > strength from absorption of the resin that is applied to it. With help from
                  > gravity the resin bleeds down into the balsa pores, giving the core great
                  > strength and minimizes the chance of water entering from the topside of the
                  > core. The water was introduced to the balsa core because of faulty
                  > thru-bolting and wood screws that exposed the unprotected core. If there
                  > are voids of resin coverage in the balsa core and it is exposed to water,
                  > it will swell as it sucks up the moisture. Eventually rot and cracks form
                  > in the gelcoat and outer glass from the swelling and weakness.
                  >
                  > I really appreciate your replies.
                  >
                  > Thankyou very much!
                  > Jeff K.
                  >
                  >
                  > Sent with AquaMail for Android
                  > http://www.aqua-mail.com
                  >
                  >
                  > On August 17, 2013 9:18:18 AM jeff kuthy <jeffkuthy@...> wrote:
                  > > TIm,
                  > > Thanks for the info.
                  > >      I do have one question though.
                  > >  How did you get the top side of the balsa core saturated with resin prior
                  > > to installing it with thickened epoxy?
                  > > Thanks
                  > > Jeff K.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ________________________________
                  > > From: Tim Malcolm <tim@...>
                  > > To: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 16, 2013
                  > > 11:55 PM
                  > > Subject: CYOA - Re: My plan to replace the core of my 9.6 cabin top with
                  > > PurpleHeart
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >   > I do not remember who posted it but there was one of the group around
                  > > > a year ago who did a major rebuild like you are talking about. He took down
                  > > > the whole cabin header and redid the inner layer from the bottom and then
                  > > > put a new header over that looked fantastic. When he did the job he posted
                  > > > a lot of pics and descriptions of how to do everything he did as well.
                  > >
                  > > I did a side deck from inside the cabin a few years ago. Similar to what
                  > > Geoff described, but never got around to covering things up with a new
                  > > header. It wasn't that difficult really, just awkward and labor intensive.
                  > >
                  > > The original posting is here:
                  > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/columbiasailingyachts/message/119286
                  > >
                  > > and pics are in this album:
                  > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/columbiasailingyachts/photos/album/1784889769/pic/list?mode=tn%c3%a2%c2%88%c2%a8der=ordinal&start=21&count=20&dir=asc
                  > >
                  > > --Tim
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
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