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reefing technique

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  • Floent Boico
    Hello, I m having a few issue with my sail shape. Before I consider the expensive upgrade to a new sail, I want to verify that I m not missing some basic
    Message 1 of 11 , Jul 8, 2013
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    Hello, I'm having a few issue with my sail shape. Before I consider the expensive upgrade to a new sail, I want to verify that I'm not missing some basic stuff.

    Attached is a picture of my clew with one reef set. Is the reef line too loose? If so, is there a technique to tighten it further? I don't have the lines led back to the cockpit and there is no winch on the boom.

    Thanks,

    Florent
  • sinbad
    Looks to loose to me. You must let the tension off the sail to get it tight. You can either come into the wind or let the boom out until it isn t drawing.
    Message 2 of 11 , Jul 9, 2013
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      Looks to loose to me. You must let the tension off the sail to get it tight. You can either come into the wind or let the boom out until it isn't drawing. Or some combiination of the two.

      --- In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, Floent Boico <flo617@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hello, I'm having a few issue with my sail shape. Before I consider the expensive upgrade to a new sail, I want to verify that I'm not missing some basic stuff.
      >
      > Attached is a picture of my clew with one reef set. Is the reef line too loose? If so, is there a technique to tighten it further? I don't have the lines led back to the cockpit and there is no winch on the boom.
      >
      > Thanks,
      >
      > Florent
      >
    • jdlewis75
      It looks like you have a small line running through the leech that feeds through a small plastic cleat attached to the sail (a typical leech line ). I would
      Message 3 of 11 , Jul 9, 2013
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        It looks like you have a small line running through the leech that feeds through a small plastic cleat attached to the sail (a typical "leech line"). I would play with the tension in that line to see if it improves whatever issue you are having (you don't say if the sail is too full, or too flat - that line can make a difference in both).

        I know I frequently forget about the leech line (especially in my genoa), but basically you want to put just enough tension on it to tame any fluttering of the leech, but no more than that. Fluttering hurts performance, but over tightening the leach line causes the sail to hook to the weather side, also harming performance. It can sometimes be a very fine line - especially with an older sail.

        It also looks like maybe the second reef line is a touch snug - it shouldn't have any tension on it at all.

        Just my $.02 - I'm sure more knowledgeable sailors will have more pointers.

        Jake
        '65 Defender

        --- In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, Floent Boico <flo617@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hello, I'm having a few issue with my sail shape. Before I consider the expensive upgrade to a new sail, I want to verify that I'm not missing some basic stuff.
        >
        > Attached is a picture of my clew with one reef set. Is the reef line too loose? If so, is there a technique to tighten it further? I don't have the lines led back to the cockpit and there is no winch on the boom.
        >
        > Thanks,
        >
        > Florent
        >
      • Alan Miller
        Might be a flattening reef. Alan Tempest, C26, # 22,  ________________________________ From: Floent Boico To: columbia_board
        Message 4 of 11 , Jul 9, 2013
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          Might be a flattening reef.

          Alan
          Tempest, C26, # 22, 


          From: Floent Boico <flo617@...>
          To: columbia_board <columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Monday, July 8, 2013 11:16 PM
          Subject: CYOA - reefing technique [1 Attachment]

           
          Hello, I'm having a few issue with my sail shape. Before I consider the expensive upgrade to a new sail, I want to verify that I'm not missing some basic stuff.

          Attached is a picture of my clew with one reef set. Is the reef line too loose? If so, is there a technique to tighten it further? I don't have the lines led back to the cockpit and there is no winch on the boom.

          Thanks,

          Florent


        • Larry W
          It s a little loose, but you don t want it really tight. I ve lost a couple of mains by pulling the the sail in to tight to the boom only to have them split
          Message 5 of 11 , Jul 9, 2013
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            It's a little loose, but you don't want it really tight. I've lost a couple of mains by pulling the the sail in to tight to the boom only to have them split when they fill. You should be able to change your outhaul to the reef ring to pull it aft, once you have let the halyard out.
            Larry Wilson

            --- In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, Floent Boico <flo617@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hello, I'm having a few issue with my sail shape. Before I consider the expensive upgrade to a new sail, I want to verify that I'm not missing some basic stuff.
            >
            > Attached is a picture of my clew with one reef set. Is the reef line too loose? If so, is there a technique to tighten it further? I don't have the lines led back to the cockpit and there is no winch on the boom.
            >
            > Thanks,
            >
            > Florent
            >
          • Peter
            Florent, I looked at the picture yesterday, but only just now have a moment to post a comment. FDor my part, the one thing I do differently is to add a lash
            Message 6 of 11 , Jul 9, 2013
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              Florent,
              I looked at the picture yesterday, but only just now have a moment to post a comment.
              FDor my part, the one thing I do differently is to add a lash from the clew reef cringle and around the boom, to pull the clew down so the outhaul is more or less straight. This allows a straight line of tension through along the reef from the clew to the tack cringle.
              Then if you tie the nettles, make them loose like Larry said.
              jmho ~ pete

              --- In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, "Larry W" <radicalcy@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > It's a little loose, but you don't want it really tight. I've lost a couple of mains by pulling the the sail in to tight to the boom only to have them split when they fill. You should be able to change your outhaul to the reef ring to pull it aft, once you have let the halyard out.
              > Larry Wilson
              >
              > --- In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, Floent Boico <flo617@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Hello, I'm having a few issue with my sail shape. Before I consider the expensive upgrade to a new sail, I want to verify that I'm not missing some basic stuff.
              > >
              > > Attached is a picture of my clew with one reef set. Is the reef line too loose? If so, is there a technique to tighten it further? I don't have the lines led back to the cockpit and there is no winch on the boom.
              > >
              > > Thanks,
              > >
              > > Florent
              > >
              >
            • cchl74
              I can only use the bullet block trick on the first reef. I cleat the lines near the gooseneck and the second reef would have too much line for it to work. The
              Message 7 of 11 , Jul 9, 2013
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                I can only use the bullet block trick on the first reef. I cleat the lines near the gooseneck and the second reef would have too much line for it to work. The usual way to put in a slab reef is to ease the mainsheet, take up on the reef line, (The end of the boom will rise), ease the main halyard, (the boom will return to level), attach the new tack, re-tension the main halyard, (or use the downhaul), and take in the mainsheet. If there are two working the boat, it can be done without loosing much drive in the main.

                      Bruce K





                This is pretty much my setup. I like the idea of an additional block but wouldn't that add clutter to the boom with the then doubled line going back to the gooseneck, especially since there needs to be one for each reefing line?

                I pulled pretty darn hard on that reefing line to get it to where it is and it was not that windy when I set it up. Of course I let a large portion of the main fall before I tensioned the clew.

                Florent

              • cchl74
                Do not forget the vang, if it is set. Bruce K Challenger # 74, Ouroboros Los Lunas, NM
                Message 8 of 11 , Jul 9, 2013
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                  Do not forget the vang, if it is set.

                        Bruce K
                        Challenger # 74, "Ouroboros"
                         Los Lunas, NM



                  I can only use the bullet block trick on the first reef. I cleat the lines near the gooseneck and the second reef would have too much line for it to work. The usual way to put in a slab reef is to ease the mainsheet, take up on the reef line, (The end of the boom will rise), ease the main halyard, (the boom will return to level), attach the new tack, re-tension the main halyard, (or use the downhaul), and take in the mainsheet. If there are two working the boat, it can be done without loosing much drive in the main.

                        Bruce K
                • Floent Boico
                  Thanks all, I checked my boat tonight and I feel I missed a few inches on that line to make the foot really tight. But it is really really hard to get it flat
                  Message 9 of 11 , Jul 9, 2013
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                    Thanks all,

                    I checked my boat tonight and I feel I missed a few inches on that line to make the foot really tight. But it is really really hard to get it flat without some help. Granted, I'm not very athletic but I can still pull my own weight (maybe the thin dyneema line I picked doesn't help either).

                    Bruce, I've been thinking about that block and I wonder if a couple of double blocks (like for a main sheet for example), an eye at the reef line and a carabiner wouldn't work for both line. Here is my though:
                    1. tighten the clew line by hand until you can fit it in the carabiner (which is attached to a double block)
                    2. tighten the other line and get the extra purchase for the last 2-3 feet.

                    It should be fairly simple to release and fit the second reef in if needed...I think...

                    Also, an idea that worked well at the dock (but maybe just there...) was to let the main halyard go a little, remove some line from the winch leaving a couple turns only. Then wrap the reef line around it, slightly pinching the bottom of the cleat on the boom. Use the winch to tighten the reef and then with the hand, push from the bottom to allow the reef line to wrap around the cleat (while releasing the tension on the winch as needed to lock it there and finish the hitch.

                    Florent



                    ------------------------------
                    On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 4:17 PM PDT Kbjmjrb@... wrote:

                    >I can only use the bullet block trick on the first reef. I cleat the lines
                    >near the gooseneck and the second reef would have too much line for it to
                    >work. The usual way to put in a slab reef is to ease the mainsheet, take up on
                    >the reef line, (The end of the boom will rise), ease the main halyard, (the
                    >boom will return to level), attach the new tack, re-tension the main
                    >halyard, (or use the downhaul), and take in the mainsheet. If there are two
                    >working the boat, it can be done without loosing much drive in the main.
                    >
                    > Bruce K >
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> This is pretty much my setup. I like the idea of an additional block but
                    >> wouldn't that add clutter to the boom with the then doubled line going back
                    >> to the gooseneck, especially since there needs to be one for each reefing
                    >> line?
                    >>
                    >> I pulled pretty darn hard on that reefing line to get it to where it is
                    >> and it was not that windy when I set it up. Of course I let a large portion
                    >> of the main fall before I tensioned the clew.
                    >>
                    >> Florent
                    >>
                    >>
                  • cchl74
                    The foot of the reefed main should be snug, but not bowstring tight. Certainly not any tighter than what is used on the unreefed main. I mostly appreciate a
                    Message 10 of 11 , Jul 10, 2013
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                      The foot of the reefed main should be snug, but not bowstring tight. Certainly not any tighter than what is used on the unreefed main. I mostly appreciate a mechanical advantage in the reefing system because it helps overcome the friction when setting the reef. It is tough to warp in tension because the boom moves.


                              Bruce K
                              Challenger # 74, "Ouroboros"
                              Los Lunas, NM





                      Thanks all,

                      I checked my boat tonight and I feel I missed a few inches on that line to make the foot really tight. But it is really really hard to get it flat without some help. Granted, I'm not very athletic but I can still pull my own weight (maybe the thin dyneema line I picked doesn't help either).

                      Bruce, I've been thinking about that block and I wonder if a couple of double blocks (like for a main sheet for example), an eye at the reef line and a carabiner wouldn't work for both line. Here is my though:
                      1. tighten the clew line by hand until you can fit it in the carabiner (which is attached to a double block)
                      2. tighten the other line and get the extra purchase for the last 2-3 feet.

                      It should be fairly simple to release and fit the second reef in if needed...I think...

                      Also, an idea that worked well at the dock (but maybe just there...) was to let the main halyard go a little, remove some line from the winch leaving a couple turns only. Then wrap the reef line around it, slightly pinching the bottom of the cleat on the boom. Use the winch to tighten the reef and then with the hand, push from the bottom to allow the reef line to wrap around the cleat (while releasing the tension on the winch as needed to lock it there and finish the hitch.

                      Florent

                    • sv Compass Rose
                      It looks like the reefing line is pretty good, but you can try for a little more. I tighten mine by hand. I stand facing the boom, right hand towards the bow.
                      Message 11 of 11 , Jul 10, 2013
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                        It looks like the reefing line is pretty good, but you can try for a little more.

                        I tighten mine by hand. I stand facing the boom, right hand towards the bow. I pull the reefing line over a cleat on the boom and then down with my right hand. Then I pull down on the reefing line between the cleat and the clew. Finally, I pull down harder with my right hand as I release with my left.

                        As has been mentioned, when tightening the reef line make sure the vang and mainsheet are slack and the sail is not drawing (hopefully it isn't flapping like crazy).

                        Once the reef line is set make sure there is slack in the second reef line and (the one I forget) the topping lift.

                        Eric

                        --- In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, Floent Boico <flo617@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Thanks all,
                        >
                        > I checked my boat tonight and I feel I missed a few inches on that line to make the foot really tight. But it is really really hard to get it flat without some help. Granted, I'm not very athletic but I can still pull my own weight (maybe the thin dyneema line I picked doesn't help either).
                        >
                        > Bruce, I've been thinking about that block and I wonder if a couple of double blocks (like for a main sheet for example), an eye at the reef line and a carabiner wouldn't work for both line. Here is my though:
                        > 1. tighten the clew line by hand until you can fit it in the carabiner (which is attached to a double block)
                        > 2. tighten the other line and get the extra purchase for the last 2-3 feet.
                        >
                        > It should be fairly simple to release and fit the second reef in if needed...I think...
                        >
                        > Also, an idea that worked well at the dock (but maybe just there...) was to let the main halyard go a little, remove some line from the winch leaving a couple turns only. Then wrap the reef line around it, slightly pinching the bottom of the cleat on the boom. Use the winch to tighten the reef and then with the hand, push from the bottom to allow the reef line to wrap around the cleat (while releasing the tension on the winch as needed to lock it there and finish the hitch.
                        >
                        > Florent
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ------------------------------
                        > On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 4:17 PM PDT Kbjmjrb@... wrote:
                        >
                        > >I can only use the bullet block trick on the first reef. I cleat the lines
                        > >near the gooseneck and the second reef would have too much line for it to
                        > >work. The usual way to put in a slab reef is to ease the mainsheet, take up on
                        > >the reef line, (The end of the boom will rise), ease the main halyard, (the
                        > >boom will return to level), attach the new tack, re-tension the main
                        > >halyard, (or use the downhaul), and take in the mainsheet. If there are two
                        > >working the boat, it can be done without loosing much drive in the main.
                        > >
                        > > Bruce K >
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >> This is pretty much my setup. I like the idea of an additional block but
                        > >> wouldn't that add clutter to the boom with the then doubled line going back
                        > >> to the gooseneck, especially since there needs to be one for each reefing
                        > >> line?
                        > >>
                        > >> I pulled pretty darn hard on that reefing line to get it to where it is
                        > >> and it was not that windy when I set it up. Of course I let a large portion
                        > >> of the main fall before I tensioned the clew.
                        > >>
                        > >> Florent
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        >
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