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Re: Can't find my manual

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  • Peter
    Wait, I think you must be a C-28 owner!! So you probably already checked and see that I lost the bet, there is no 1-1/2 poop overboard, it is therefore a
    Message 1 of 24 , Feb 28, 2013
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      Wait, I think you must be a C-28 owner!!

      So you probably already checked and see that I lost the bet, there is no 1-1/2" poop overboard, it is therefore a 1-1/4", (unless I'm wrong again). Cap on seacock has 1-1/4", so I'm sticking with that. Its a fine old GROCO, sitting on the shelf, let me know if you need one....

      ~ pete


      --- In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, "Jesse Doyle" <jess81452@...> wrote:
      >
      > Geez Pete. Ya think you're up to it or do we need to get the wheel chair
      > out. First of all the ones for the head have been removed, the bilge drain I
      > can't get to for a measurement, the galley has been removed, and last but
      > not least the engine fresh water inlet has been epoxied so I can't tell.
      > Thus the reason I ask. I know there are guys in our group that have the 28
      > and I was hoping they would chime in but alas I got you. I'll find the
      > answer somewhere else. If there are any of you that own one I'd be glad to
      > hear from you.
      >
      > Thank You
      >
      > Fair winds Pete
      >
      > Jesse Doyle
      >
      > 1971 Columbia 28'
      >
      > #547
      >
      > s/v Wind Singer
      >
      > Redwood City, Ca.
      >
      > 37º 35' 14.32" N
      >
      > 122º 18' 58.89" W
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > From: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com
      > [mailto:columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Peter
      > Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 7:51 AM
      > To: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: CYOA - Re: Can't find my manual
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Let me find a C-28, and I'll look at them and get back to you.
      >
      > My money says there are 4 total - two are 3/4" (engine intake and sea water
      > intake for head), one is a 1" (galley drain) and one sanitary discharge is
      > 1-1/2".
      >
      > Does the cockpit drain below the water line, or above? Seacocks on the
      > drains?
      >
      > ~ pete
      >
      > --- In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com
      > <mailto:columbiasailingyachts%40yahoogroups.com> , "WindSinger" wrote:
      > >
      > > Doe's anyone know the size of the thru hulls used on the 1970 Columbia
      > 28'?
      > >
      >
    • Jesse Doyle
      Thanks a lot Todd. Just before pulling the boat out and I want to get the stuff before I do. Speaking of, Can anyone suggest the right things to use? I’m
      Message 2 of 24 , Feb 28, 2013
      • 0 Attachment

        Thanks a lot Todd. Just before pulling the boat out and I want to get the stuff before I do. Speaking of, Can anyone suggest the right things to use? I’m going to re-do the cockpit drains to 1 ½ to 2 inch going to a Y with an anti-backwash valve or flapper. Bilge pump will be upgraded to a 700 gph going to a 1 inch thru hull with the same anti-back wash. Doing this because I’ve had a couple of wave hit me from behind in San Pablo bay here. Thanks again Todd.

         

         

        From: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com [mailto:columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of todd kendon
        Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 8:34 AM
        To: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: CYOA - Re: Can't find my manual

         

         

        It seems to me that I have Three,1in.head,1in. galley,3/4in. cockpit,I'll check this weekend.Todd,Col.28

         


        From: Jesse Doyle <jess81452@...>
        To: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Thu, February 28, 2013 10:17:44 AM
        Subject: RE: CYOA - Re: Can't find my manual

         

        Geez Pete. Ya think you’re up to it or do we need to get the wheel chair out. First of all the ones for the head have been removed, the bilge drain I can’t get to for a measurement, the galley has been removed, and last but not least the engine fresh water inlet has been epoxied so I can’t tell. Thus the reason I ask. I know there are guys in our group that have the 28 and I was hoping they would chime in but alas I got you. I’ll find the answer somewhere else. If there are any of you that own one I’d be glad to hear from you.

        Thank You

        Fair winds Pete

        Jesse Doyle

        1971 Columbia 28’

        #547

        s/v Wind Singer

        Redwood City, Ca.

        37º 35’ 14.32” N

        122º 18’ 58.89” W

         

         

        From: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com [mailto:columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Peter
        Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 7:51 AM
        To: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: CYOA - Re: Can't find my manual

         

         

        Let me find a C-28, and I'll look at them and get back to you.

        My money says there are 4 total - two are 3/4" (engine intake and sea water intake for head), one is a 1" (galley drain) and one sanitary discharge is 1-1/2".

        Does the cockpit drain below the water line, or above? Seacocks on the drains?

        ~ pete

        --- In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, "WindSinger" wrote:
        >
        > Doe's anyone know the size of the thru hulls used on the 1970 Columbia 28'?
        >

      • Jesse Doyle
        Hey Pete, I apologize for my bad form of humor. I was just kidding around. Should have made sure you knew that. I hope you will accept my apology. L From:
        Message 3 of 24 , Feb 28, 2013
        • 0 Attachment

          Hey Pete, I apologize for my bad form of humor. I was just kidding around. Should have made sure you knew that. I hope you will accept my apology. L

           

          From: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com [mailto:columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Peter
          Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 7:51 AM
          To: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: CYOA - Re: Can't find my manual

           

           

          Let me find a C-28, and I'll look at them and get back to you.

          My money says there are 4 total - two are 3/4" (engine intake and sea water intake for head), one is a 1" (galley drain) and one sanitary discharge is 1-1/2".

          Does the cockpit drain below the water line, or above? Seacocks on the drains?

          ~ pete

          --- In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, "WindSinger" wrote:
          >
          > Doe's anyone know the size of the thru hulls used on the 1970 Columbia 28'?
          >

        • Jesse Doyle
          If it’s a thru hull you’re talking about then I might be able to use it if you think the idea of upgrading my cockpit drains is a good idea. I’d really
          Message 4 of 24 , Feb 28, 2013
          • 0 Attachment

            If it’s a thru hull you’re talking about then I might be able to use it if you think the idea of upgrading my cockpit drains is a good idea. I’d really like 2 inch but that may be too much. Just don’t want the water staying in my cockpit forever. Thank you Pete.

             

            From: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com [mailto:columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Peter
            Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 12:35 PM
            To: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: CYOA - Re: Can't find my manual

             

             

            Wait, I think you must be a C-28 owner!!

            So you probably already checked and see that I lost the bet, there is no 1-1/2" poop overboard, it is therefore a 1-1/4", (unless I'm wrong again). Cap on seacock has 1-1/4", so I'm sticking with that. Its a fine old GROCO, sitting on the shelf, let me know if you need one....

            ~ pete

            --- In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, "Jesse Doyle" wrote:
            >
            > Geez Pete. Ya think you're up to it or do we need to get the wheel chair
            > out. First of all the ones for the head have been removed, the bilge drain I
            > can't get to for a measurement, the galley has been removed, and last but
            > not least the engine fresh water inlet has been epoxied so I can't tell.
            > Thus the reason I ask. I know there are guys in our group that have the 28
            > and I was hoping they would chime in but alas I got you. I'll find the
            > answer somewhere else. If there are any of you that own one I'd be glad to
            > hear from you.
            >
            > Thank You
            >
            > Fair winds Pete
            >
            > Jesse Doyle
            >
            > 1971 Columbia 28'
            >
            > #547
            >
            > s/v Wind Singer
            >
            > Redwood City, Ca.
            >
            > 37º 35' 14.32" N
            >
            > 122º 18' 58.89" W
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > From: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com
            > [mailto:columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Peter
            > Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 7:51 AM
            > To: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: CYOA - Re: Can't find my manual
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Let me find a C-28, and I'll look at them and get back to you.
            >
            > My money says there are 4 total - two are 3/4" (engine intake and sea water
            > intake for head), one is a 1" (galley drain) and one sanitary discharge is
            > 1-1/2".
            >
            > Does the cockpit drain below the water line, or above? Seacocks on the
            > drains?
            >
            > ~ pete
            >
            > --- In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com
            > , "WindSinger" wrote:
            > >
            > > Doe's anyone know the size of the thru hulls used on the 1970 Columbia
            > 28'?
            > >
            >

          • Peter
            No apology needed, Jesse, I got the joke. What I offered is a Groco seacock, with through hill, 1-1/4 . Some wear marks but otherwise ok. Its all original, 35
            Message 5 of 24 , Feb 28, 2013
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              No apology needed, Jesse, I got the joke.
              What I offered is a Groco seacock, with through hill, 1-1/4".
              Some wear marks but otherwise ok.
              Its all original, 35 years old, but in good shape.
              Send your addy offline, and I'll ship it to you.
              ~ pete

              --- In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, "Jesse Doyle" <jess81452@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hey Pete, I apologize for my bad form of humor. I was just kidding around.
              > Should have made sure you knew that. I hope you will accept my apology. L
              >
              >
              >
              > From: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com
              > [mailto:columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Peter
              > Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 7:51 AM
              > To: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: CYOA - Re: Can't find my manual
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Let me find a C-28, and I'll look at them and get back to you.
              >
              > My money says there are 4 total - two are 3/4" (engine intake and sea water
              > intake for head), one is a 1" (galley drain) and one sanitary discharge is
              > 1-1/2".
              >
              > Does the cockpit drain below the water line, or above? Seacocks on the
              > drains?
              >
              > ~ pete
              >
              > --- In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com
              > <mailto:columbiasailingyachts%40yahoogroups.com> , "WindSinger" wrote:
              > >
              > > Doe's anyone know the size of the thru hulls used on the 1970 Columbia
              > 28'?
              > >
              >
            • Peter
              No apology needed, Jesse, I got the joke. What I offered is a Groco seacock, with through hill, 1-1/4 . Some wear marks but otherwise ok. Its all original, 35
              Message 6 of 24 , Feb 28, 2013
              • 0 Attachment
                No apology needed, Jesse, I got the joke.
                What I offered is a Groco seacock, with through hill, 1-1/4".
                Some wear marks but otherwise ok.
                Its all original, 35 years old, but in good shape.
                Send your addy offline, and I'll ship it to you.
                ~ pete

                --- In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, "Jesse Doyle" <jess81452@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hey Pete, I apologize for my bad form of humor. I was just kidding around.
                > Should have made sure you knew that. I hope you will accept my apology. L
                >
                >
                >
                > From: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com
                > [mailto:columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Peter
                > Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 7:51 AM
                > To: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: CYOA - Re: Can't find my manual
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Let me find a C-28, and I'll look at them and get back to you.
                >
                > My money says there are 4 total - two are 3/4" (engine intake and sea water
                > intake for head), one is a 1" (galley drain) and one sanitary discharge is
                > 1-1/2".
                >
                > Does the cockpit drain below the water line, or above? Seacocks on the
                > drains?
                >
                > ~ pete
                >
                > --- In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com
                > <mailto:columbiasailingyachts%40yahoogroups.com> , "WindSinger" wrote:
                > >
                > > Doe's anyone know the size of the thru hulls used on the 1970 Columbia
                > 28'?
                > >
                >
              • Jesse Doyle
                Pete, sorry for not getting back to you. Right at this time I don’t know if I can use it. I’m not sure what kind of waste system I’m going to use and
                Message 7 of 24 , Mar 1, 2013
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                  Pete, sorry for not getting back to you. Right at this time I don’t know if I can use it. I’m not sure what kind of waste system I’m going to use and I’m still debating as to how I’m going to do with the cockpit drains. I’m going to pull her out of the water soon so I have to get on the stick and get things together. Haven’t even decided what bottom paint I’m going to use. I want some that’s going to be multi season. Got any suggestions? Once I get the mast down is going to be when the boat bucks start flowing. Have to change all my stay wire too. Whooopeee! Sorry I couldn’t use you thru hull and valve. I’m sure someone here will snag it.

                  Jesse Doyle

                  1971 Columbia 28’

                  #547

                  s/v Wind Singer

                  Redwood City, Ca.

                  37º 35’ 14.32” N

                  122º 18’ 58.89” W

                   

                   

                   

                  From: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com [mailto:columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Peter
                  Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 5:43 PM
                  To: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: CYOA - Re: Can't find my manual

                   

                   

                  No apology needed, Jesse, I got the joke.
                  What I offered is a Groco seacock, with through hill, 1-1/4".
                  Some wear marks but otherwise ok.
                  Its all original, 35 years old, but in good shape.
                  Send your addy offline, and I'll ship it to you.
                  ~ pete

                  --- In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, "Jesse Doyle" wrote:
                  >
                  > Hey Pete, I apologize for my bad form of humor. I was just kidding around.
                  > Should have made sure you knew that. I hope you will accept my apology. L
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > From: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com
                  > [mailto:columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Peter
                  > Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 7:51 AM
                  > To: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: CYOA - Re: Can't find my manual
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Let me find a C-28, and I'll look at them and get back to you.
                  >
                  > My money says there are 4 total - two are 3/4" (engine intake and sea water
                  > intake for head), one is a 1" (galley drain) and one sanitary discharge is
                  > 1-1/2".
                  >
                  > Does the cockpit drain below the water line, or above? Seacocks on the
                  > drains?
                  >
                  > ~ pete
                  >
                  > --- In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com
                  > , "WindSinger" wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Doe's anyone know the size of the thru hulls used on the 1970 Columbia
                  > 28'?
                  > >
                  >

                • cchl74
                  Jesse, When you do the stays, consider using the bolt on types rather than the crimp-on ones. Bruce K Challenger 74 Ouroboros Los Lunas, NM ... Jesse, W hen
                  Message 8 of 24 , Mar 1, 2013
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Jesse,

                        When you do the stays, consider using the bolt on types rather than the crimp-on ones.

                         Bruce K
                         Challenger 74 "Ouroboros"
                         Los Lunas, NM





                    Pete, sorry for not getting back to you. Right at this time I don’t know if I can use it. I’m not sure what kind of waste system I’m going to use and I’m still debating as to how I’m going to do with the cockpit drains. I’m going to pull her out of the water soon so I have to get on the stick and get things together. Haven’t even decided what bottom paint I’m going to use. I want some that’s going to be multi season. Got any suggestions? Once I get the mast down is going to be when the boat bucks start flowing. Have to change all my stay wire too. Whooopeee! Sorry I couldn’t use you thru hull and valve. I’m sure someone here will snag it.

                    Jesse Doyle

                    1971 Columbia 28’

                    #547

                    s/v Wind Singer

                    Redwood City, Ca.

                    37º 35’ 14.32” N

                    122º 18’ 58.89” W

                  • Jesse Doyle
                    Bruce, I think It’s The Norse (maybe) you’re Talking about. I had planned on that. From: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com
                    Message 9 of 24 , Mar 1, 2013
                    • 0 Attachment

                      Bruce, I think It’s The Norse (maybe) you’re Talking about. I had planned on that.

                       

                      From: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com [mailto:columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kbjmjrb@...
                      Sent: Friday, March 01, 2013 5:05 PM
                      To: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: CYOA - Re: Can't find my manual

                       

                       

                      Jesse,

                          When you do the stays, consider using the bolt on types rather than the crimp-on ones.

                           Bruce K
                           Challenger 74 "Ouroboros"
                           Los Lunas, NM





                      Pete, sorry for not getting back to you. Right at this time I don’t know if I can use it. I’m not sure what kind of waste system I’m going to use and I’m still debating as to how I’m going to do with the cockpit drains. I’m going to pull her out of the water soon so I have to get on the stick and get things together. Haven’t even decided what bottom paint I’m going to use. I want some that’s going to be multi season. Got any suggestions? Once I get the mast down is going to be when the boat bucks start flowing. Have to change all my stay wire too. Whooopeee! Sorry I couldn’t use you thru hull and valve. I’m sure someone here will snag it.

                      Jesse Doyle

                      1971 Columbia 28’

                      #547

                      s/v Wind Singer

                      Redwood City, Ca.

                      37º 35’ 14.32” N

                      122º 18’ 58.89” W

                    • cchl74
                      Either Norseman, Sta-Loc, or Hi-Mod. I used the Norseman, but that was all I could find at the time. With a spool of wire rope and a wire cutter, you can do
                      Message 10 of 24 , Mar 2, 2013
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Either Norseman, Sta-Loc, or Hi-Mod. I used the Norseman, but that was all I could find at the time. With a spool of wire rope and a wire cutter, you can do the whole boat rather quickly. One useful addition is a small block of steel with a proper sized hole drilled in it. You insert the wire into the hole and rub the block across a bastard cut file to square off the cut end of the rope.


                             Bruce K
                             Challenger # 74, "Ouroboros"
                             Los Lunas, NM





                        Bruce, I think It’s The Norse (maybe) you’re Talking about. I had planned on that.


                      • Jim
                        With my POrt SUpply discount at WM, HJ and I found www riggingonly dot com to be the best price for goods. I am a Hi-MOd fan myself. When I was up in Port
                        Message 11 of 24 , Mar 2, 2013
                        • 0 Attachment
                          With my POrt SUpply discount at WM, HJ and I found www riggingonly dot com to be the best price for goods. I am a Hi-MOd fan myself. When I was up in Port Townsend last year, teh guys at Brian Toss Rigging were very happy with them too.

                          --- In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, Kbjmjrb@... wrote:
                          >
                          > Either Norseman, Sta-Loc, or Hi-Mod. I used the Norseman, but that was all
                          > I could find at the time. With a spool of wire rope and a wire cutter, you
                          > can do the whole boat rather quickly. One useful addition is a small block of
                          > steel with a proper sized hole drilled in it. You insert the wire into the
                          > hole and rub the block across a bastard cut file to square off the cut end
                          > of the rope.
                          >
                          >
                          > Bruce K
                          > Challenger # 74, "Ouroboros"
                          > Los Lunas, NM
                          >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Bruce, I think It’s The Norse (maybe) you’re Talking about. I had planned
                          > > on that.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                        • Jesse Doyle
                          Bruce, I’m thinking of putting my stays on the outside of the hull. I know how to do it because I had a boat wright help me with it on my old Pearson Ariel.
                          Message 12 of 24 , Mar 2, 2013
                          • 0 Attachment

                            Bruce, I’m thinking of putting my stays on the outside of the hull. I know how to do it because I had a boat wright help me with it on my old Pearson Ariel. I just can’t remember why I did it. Is there any chance you could explain the pros and cons. I know the group had gone over it some time back but without having to scan all the discussions I figure I’d just ask. Thanks Bruce.

                            Jesse Doyle

                            1971 Columbia 28’

                            #547

                            s/v Wind Singer

                            Redwood City, Ca.

                            37º 35’ 14.32” N

                            122º 18’ 58.89” W

                             

                             

                             

                            From: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com [mailto:columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kbjmjrb@...
                            Sent: Friday, March 01, 2013 5:05 PM
                            To: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: CYOA - Re: Can't find my manual

                             

                             

                            Jesse,

                                When you do the stays, consider using the bolt on types rather than the crimp-on ones.

                                 Bruce K
                                 Challenger 74 "Ouroboros"
                                 Los Lunas, NM





                            Pete, sorry for not getting back to you. Right at this time I don’t know if I can use it. I’m not sure what kind of waste system I’m going to use and I’m still debating as to how I’m going to do with the cockpit drains. I’m going to pull her out of the water soon so I have to get on the stick and get things together. Haven’t even decided what bottom paint I’m going to use. I want some that’s going to be multi season. Got any suggestions? Once I get the mast down is going to be when the boat bucks start flowing. Have to change all my stay wire too. Whooopeee! Sorry I couldn’t use you thru hull and valve. I’m sure someone here will snag it.

                            Jesse Doyle

                            1971 Columbia 28’

                            #547

                            s/v Wind Singer

                            Redwood City, Ca.

                            37º 35’ 14.32” N

                            122º 18’ 58.89” W

                          • David Morgan
                            Jesse I stick a foot in here while you re waiting for the smart guys to speak up.  Aside from the affect it has on clearing or cluttering your access to the
                            Message 13 of 24 , Mar 2, 2013
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Jesse

                              I stick a foot in here while you're waiting for the smart guys to speak up. 

                              Aside from the affect it has on clearing or cluttering your access to the foredeck, depending on where they are situated, I suspect that 1) Moving the shrouds out from the mast increases the stability they offer the mast.  2) It decreases the ability to sheet in your head sails to close hauled when sailing up wind. 

                              Conversly:  Moving shrouds inboard from a rail position:  1) Decreases the stability they offer the mast.  2)  Increases the ability to sheet in the sails to a more closely hauled position to allow sailing closer to the wind. 

                              So I'm guessing it may not matter as much to a cruiser, and it may matter more to a racer, but some cruisers like to go fast and some racers aren't interested as fast so much as they are steady. 

                              But it's all speculation on my part....... And I'm sure there are other considerations. 
                               
                              David
                              Bremerton, WA
                              1968 C-22 #1109
                              "Eaglet"

                              From: Jesse Doyle <jess81452@...>
                              To: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Saturday, March 2, 2013 11:50 AM
                              Subject: RE: CYOA - Re: Can't find my manual

                               
                              Bruce, I’m thinking of putting my stays on the outside of the hull. I know how to do it because I had a boat wright help me with it on my old Pearson Ariel. I just can’t remember why I did it. Is there any chance you could explain the pros and cons. I know the group had gone over it some time back but without having to scan all the discussions I figure I’d just ask. Thanks Bruce.
                              Jesse Doyle
                              1971 Columbia 28’
                              #547
                              s/v Wind Singer
                              Redwood City, Ca.
                              37º 35’ 14.32” N
                              122º 18’ 58.89” W
                               
                               
                               
                              From: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com [mailto:columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kbjmjrb@...
                              Sent: Friday, March 01, 2013 5:05 PM
                              To: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: CYOA - Re: Can't find my manual
                               
                               
                              Jesse,

                                  When you do the stays, consider using the bolt on types rather than the crimp-on ones.

                                   Bruce K
                                   Challenger 74 "Ouroboros"
                                   Los Lunas, NM




                              Pete, sorry for not getting back to you. Right at this time I don’t know if I can use it. I’m not sure what kind of waste system I’m going to use and I’m still debating as to how I’m going to do with the cockpit drains. I’m going to pull her out of the water soon so I have to get on the stick and get things together. Haven’t even decided what bottom paint I’m going to use. I want some that’s going to be multi season. Got any suggestions? Once I get the mast down is going to be when the boat bucks start flowing. Have to change all my stay wire too. Whooopeee! Sorry I couldn’t use you thru hull and valve. I’m sure someone here will snag it.

                              Jesse Doyle

                              1971 Columbia 28’

                              #547

                              s/v Wind Singer

                              Redwood City, Ca.

                              37º 35’ 14.32” N

                              122º 18’ 58.89” W


                            • David Morgan
                              I also meant to mention that (I hope) those things are considered by the designers when they put a plan to paper.  I don t have the training nor experience to
                              Message 14 of 24 , Mar 2, 2013
                              • 0 Attachment
                                I also meant to mention that (I hope) those things are considered by the designers when they put a plan to paper.  I don't have the training nor experience to rely on in changing something that has (hopefully) already been thought out by someone who should know what they were doing. 

                                Not that it can't be done, but with some study and deliberation. 
                                 
                                David
                                Bremerton, WA
                                1968 C-22 #1109
                                "Eaglet"

                                From: David Morgan <sapper69k@...>
                                To: "columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com" <columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Saturday, March 2, 2013 2:36 PM
                                Subject: CYOA - was: Can't find my manual. Now: sheeting angles

                                 
                                Jesse

                                I stick a foot in here while you're waiting for the smart guys to speak up. 

                                Aside from the affect it has on clearing or cluttering your access to the foredeck, depending on where they are situated, I suspect that 1) Moving the shrouds out from the mast increases the stability they offer the mast.  2) It decreases the ability to sheet in your head sails to close hauled when sailing up wind. 

                                Conversly:  Moving shrouds inboard from a rail position:  1) Decreases the stability they offer the mast.  2)  Increases the ability to sheet in the sails to a more closely hauled position to allow sailing closer to the wind. 

                                So I'm guessing it may not matter as much to a cruiser, and it may matter more to a racer, but some cruisers like to go fast and some racers aren't interested as fast so much as they are steady. 

                                But it's all speculation on my part....... And I'm sure there are other considerations. 
                                 
                                David
                                Bremerton, WA
                                1968 C-22 #1109
                                "Eaglet"

                                From: Jesse Doyle <jess81452@...>
                                To: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Saturday, March 2, 2013 11:50 AM
                                Subject: RE: CYOA - Re: Can't find my manual

                                 
                                Bruce, I’m thinking of putting my stays on the outside of the hull. I know how to do it because I had a boat wright help me with it on my old Pearson Ariel. I just can’t remember why I did it. Is there any chance you could explain the pros and cons. I know the group had gone over it some time back but without having to scan all the discussions I figure I’d just ask. Thanks Bruce.
                                Jesse Doyle
                                1971 Columbia 28’
                                #547
                                s/v Wind Singer
                                Redwood City, Ca.
                                37º 35’ 14.32” N
                                122º 18’ 58.89” W
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                From: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com [mailto:columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kbjmjrb@...
                                Sent: Friday, March 01, 2013 5:05 PM
                                To: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: Re: CYOA - Re: Can't find my manual
                                 
                                 
                                Jesse,

                                    When you do the stays, consider using the bolt on types rather than the crimp-on ones.

                                     Bruce K
                                     Challenger 74 "Ouroboros"
                                     Los Lunas, NM




                                Pete, sorry for not getting back to you. Right at this time I don’t know if I can use it. I’m not sure what kind of waste system I’m going to use and I’m still debating as to how I’m going to do with the cockpit drains. I’m going to pull her out of the water soon so I have to get on the stick and get things together. Haven’t even decided what bottom paint I’m going to use. I want some that’s going to be multi season. Got any suggestions? Once I get the mast down is going to be when the boat bucks start flowing. Have to change all my stay wire too. Whooopeee! Sorry I couldn’t use you thru hull and valve. I’m sure someone here will snag it.

                                Jesse Doyle

                                1971 Columbia 28’

                                #547

                                s/v Wind Singer

                                Redwood City, Ca.

                                37º 35’ 14.32” N

                                122º 18’ 58.89” W




                              • Jesse Doyle
                                Good thoughts coming from a man that I am quite sure has a much higher IQ than I have. If I’m not sadly mistaken the 28 was made as a racer but also a light
                                Message 15 of 24 , Mar 2, 2013
                                • 0 Attachment

                                  Good thoughts coming from a man that I am quite sure has a much higher IQ than I have. If I’m not sadly mistaken the 28 was made as a racer but also a light cruiser. I know the guys here have told me that a few have done the world tour so I can assume that they can be both. I’m not a racer so be damned with the close haul. If I have the room I’ll haul it as much as “it” wants to go. So, on that note I’ll wait for the upcoming debate and make the decision. So let the dogs of war out. Damn I want to go sailing. Maybe next year. Thanks for the wisdom David.

                                  Jesse Doyle

                                  1971 Columbia 28’

                                  #547

                                  s/v Wind Singer

                                  Redwood City, Ca.

                                  37º 35’ 14.32” N

                                  122º 18’ 58.89” W

                                   

                                   

                                   

                                  From: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com [mailto:columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Morgan
                                  Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2013 8:52 PM
                                  To: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: CYOA - was: Can't find my manual. Now: sheeting angles

                                   

                                   

                                  I also meant to mention that (I hope) those things are considered by the designers when they put a plan to paper.  I don't have the training nor experience to rely on in changing something that has (hopefully) already been thought out by someone who should know what they were doing. 

                                  Not that it can't be done, but with some study and deliberation. 

                                   

                                  David
                                  Bremerton, WA
                                  1968 C-22 #1109
                                  "Eaglet"


                                  From: David Morgan <sapper69k@...>
                                  To: "columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com" <columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Sent: Saturday, March 2, 2013 2:36 PM
                                  Subject: CYOA - was: Can't find my manual. Now: sheeting angles

                                   

                                   

                                  Jesse

                                  I stick a foot in here while you're waiting for the smart guys to speak up. 

                                  Aside from the affect it has on clearing or cluttering your access to the foredeck, depending on where they are situated, I suspect that 1) Moving the shrouds out from the mast increases the stability they offer the mast.  2) It decreases the ability to sheet in your head sails to close hauled when sailing up wind. 

                                  Conversly:  Moving shrouds inboard from a rail position:  1) Decreases the stability they offer the mast.  2)  Increases the ability to sheet in the sails to a more closely hauled position to allow sailing closer to the wind. 

                                  So I'm guessing it may not matter as much to a cruiser, and it may matter more to a racer, but some cruisers like to go fast and some racers aren't interested as fast so much as they are steady. 

                                  But it's all speculation on my part....... And I'm sure there are other considerations. 

                                   

                                  David
                                  Bremerton, WA
                                  1968 C-22 #1109
                                  "Eaglet"


                                  From: Jesse Doyle <jess81452@...>
                                  To: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Saturday, March 2, 2013 11:50 AM
                                  Subject: RE: CYOA - Re: Can't find my manual

                                   

                                   

                                  Bruce, I’m thinking of putting my stays on the outside of the hull. I know how to do it because I had a boat wright help me with it on my old Pearson Ariel. I just can’t remember why I did it. Is there any chance you could explain the pros and cons. I know the group had gone over it some time back but without having to scan all the discussions I figure I’d just ask. Thanks Bruce.

                                  Jesse Doyle

                                  1971 Columbia 28’

                                  #547

                                  s/v Wind Singer

                                  Redwood City, Ca.

                                  37º 35’ 14.32” N

                                  122º 18’ 58.89” W

                                   

                                   

                                   

                                  From: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com [mailto:columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kbjmjrb@...
                                  Sent: Friday, March 01, 2013 5:05 PM
                                  To: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: CYOA - Re: Can't find my manual

                                   

                                   

                                  Jesse,

                                      When you do the stays, consider using the bolt on types rather than the crimp-on ones.

                                       Bruce K
                                       Challenger 74 "Ouroboros"
                                       Los Lunas, NM





                                  Pete, sorry for not getting back to you. Right at this time I don’t know if I can use it. I’m not sure what kind of waste system I’m going to use and I’m still debating as to how I’m going to do with the cockpit drains. I’m going to pull her out of the water soon so I have to get on the stick and get things together. Haven’t even decided what bottom paint I’m going to use. I want some that’s going to be multi season. Got any suggestions? Once I get the mast down is going to be when the boat bucks start flowing. Have to change all my stay wire too. Whooopeee! Sorry I couldn’t use you thru hull and valve. I’m sure someone here will snag it.

                                  Jesse Doyle

                                  1971 Columbia 28’

                                  #547

                                  s/v Wind Singer

                                  Redwood City, Ca.

                                  37º 35’ 14.32” N

                                  122º 18’ 58.89” W

                                   

                                   

                                • cchl74
                                  The main reason folks move the chainplates outboard is to add strength to the chainplate anchoring system. As stated, racers do prefer to sheet the headsails
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Mar 3, 2013
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    The main reason folks move the chainplates outboard is to add strength to the chainplate anchoring system. As stated, racers do prefer to sheet the headsails at a narrow angle, so many boats have the chainplates inboard from the gunsels. When this is done, anchoring the chainplates requires some sort of structure under the deck to spread the load. The fastening system is often not ideal. It also means a hole in the deck which can leak. Some folks headed for blue water prefer to move the chain plates to the side and glass large metal plates to the inside of the hull. The chainplates are then well anchored and the attachment bolts are in sheer, a stronger system all around. It also reduces clutter on the deck. The forces on a deck stepped mast system are usually just considered to be compression on the mast and tension in the shrouds. For a given side force on the mast, the amount of compression and tension is determined by the height of the mast and the distance from the mast base to the chainplates. Moving the chainplates outboard will reduce the mount of tension in the shrouds, but moving them just a few inches does not change things all that much. Often, and I suspect this is the case for the C-28, the sheeting angle of an overlapping headsail is actually limited by the length of the spreaders rather than the width of the chainplate base. If you wish to move your chainplates outboard, I say go for it, but make sure that the anchoring system is strong and distributes the load over a large area of the hull. Some pure racing boats have a steel frame under the chainplates that is bolted to the keel. Such a system is usually not practical in a cruiser. Often, when reinforcing the chainplate anchors, folks will also consider adding chainplates fore and aft for double lower shrouds This helps reduce "pumping" of the mast when sailing through sharp swells.



                                           Bruce K

                                           Challenger # 74, "Ouroboros"
                                           Los Lunas, NM
                                        



                                    Bruce, I’m thinking of putting my stays on the outside of the hull. I know how to do it because I had a boat wright help me with it on my old Pearson Ariel. I just can’t remember why I did it. Is there any chance you could explain the pros and cons. I know the group had gone over it some time back but without having to scan all the discussions I figure I’d just ask. Thanks Bruce.

                                    Jesse Doyle

                                    1971 Columbia 28’

                                    #547

                                    s/v Wind Singer

                                    Redwood City, Ca.

                                    37º 35’ 14.32” N

                                    122º 18’ 58.89” W


                                  • Jesse Doyle
                                    Bruce, I am having to learn all the terminology again since my small stroke. I really feel like a dumb ass asking this, but could you or others here explain
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Mar 3, 2013
                                    • 0 Attachment

                                      Bruce, I am having to learn all the terminology again since my small stroke. I really feel like a dumb ass asking this, but could you or others here explain your last two sentences. Thank God for the Annapolis book of seamanship and the boaters bible. I just haven’t got to that section yet. Hate asking! I hope you don’t mind.

                                       

                                      From: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com [mailto:columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kbjmjrb@...
                                      Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2013 6:21 AM
                                      To: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: Re: CYOA - Re: Can't find my manual

                                       

                                       

                                      The main reason folks move the chainplates outboard is to add strength to the chainplate anchoring system. As stated, racers do prefer to sheet the headsails at a narrow angle, so many boats have the chainplates inboard from the gunsels. When this is done, anchoring the chainplates requires some sort of structure under the deck to spread the load. The fastening system is often not ideal. It also means a hole in the deck which can leak. Some folks headed for blue water prefer to move the chain plates to the side and glass large metal plates to the inside of the hull. The chainplates are then well anchored and the attachment bolts are in sheer, a stronger system all around. It also reduces clutter on the deck. The forces on a deck stepped mast system are usually just considered to be compression on the mast and tension in the shrouds. For a given side force on the mast, the amount of compression and tension is determined by the height of the mast and the distance from the mast base to the chainplates. Moving the chainplates outboard will reduce the mount of tension in the shrouds, but moving them just a few inches does not change things all that much. Often, and I suspect this is the case for the C-28, the sheeting angle of an overlapping headsail is actually limited by the length of the spreaders rather than the width of the chainplate base. If you wish to move your chainplates outboard, I say go for it, but make sure that the anchoring system is strong and distributes the load over a large area of the hull. Some pure racing boats have a steel frame under the chainplates that is bolted to the keel. Such a system is usually not practical in a cruiser. Often, when reinforcing the chainplate anchors, folks will also consider adding chainplates fore and aft for double lower shrouds This helps reduce "pumping" of the mast when sailing through sharp swells.



                                             Bruce K


                                             Challenger # 74, "Ouroboros"
                                             Los Lunas, NM
                                          




                                      Bruce, I’m thinking of putting my stays on the outside of the hull. I know how to do it because I had a boat wright help me with it on my old Pearson Ariel. I just can’t remember why I did it. Is there any chance you could explain the pros and cons. I know the group had gone over it some time back but without having to scan all the discussions I figure I’d just ask. Thanks Bruce.

                                      Jesse Doyle

                                      1971 Columbia 28’

                                      #547

                                      s/v Wind Singer

                                      Redwood City, Ca.

                                      37º 35’ 14.32” N

                                      122º 18’ 58.89” W

                                    • harryjak
                                      There were some tests run on strength and the Stayloc and the Hi Mod both tested out higher than the Norseman fittings. HJ Bruce, I think It’s The Norse
                                      Message 18 of 24 , Mar 3, 2013
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        There were some tests run on strength and the Stayloc and the Hi Mod both tested
                                        out higher than the Norseman fittings.

                                        HJ

                                        Bruce, I think It’s The Norse (maybe) you’re Talking about. I had planned on
                                        > that.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > From: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com
                                        > [mailto:columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kbjmjrb@...
                                        > Sent: Friday, March 01, 2013 5:05 PM
                                        > To: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com
                                        > Subject: Re: CYOA - Re: Can't find my manual
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Jesse,
                                        >
                                        > When you do the stays, consider using the bolt on types rather than the
                                        > crimp-on ones.
                                        >
                                        > Bruce K
                                        > Challenger 74 "Ouroboros"
                                        > Los Lunas, NM
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Pete, sorry for not getting back to you. Right at this time I don’t know if I can
                                        > use it. I’m not sure what kind of waste system I’m going to use and I’m still
                                        > debating as to how I’m going to do with the cockpit drains. I’m going to pull
                                        > her out of the water soon so I have to get on the stick and get things together.
                                        > Haven’t even decided what bottom paint I’m going to use. I want some that’s
                                        > going to be multi season. Got any suggestions? Once I get the mast down is going to
                                        > be when the boat bucks start flowing. Have to change all my stay wire too.
                                        > Whooopeee! Sorry I couldn’t use you thru hull and valve. I’m sure someone here
                                        > will snag it.
                                        >
                                        > Jesse Doyle
                                        >
                                        > 1971 Columbia 28’
                                        >
                                        > #547
                                        >
                                        > s/v Wind Singer
                                        >
                                        > Redwood City, Ca.
                                        >
                                        > 37º 35’ 14.32” N
                                        >
                                        > 122º 18’ 58.89” W
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                      • cchl74
                                        I am assuming that you are asking about mast pumping . On a masthead rig, the top of the mast is held in place fore and aft by the stays and side to side by
                                        Message 19 of 24 , Mar 4, 2013
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          I am assuming that you are asking about mast "pumping". On a masthead rig, the top of the mast is held in place fore and aft by the stays and side to side by the outer shrouds. It is pretty well locked in. The base of the mast is held by the shoe. A lot of boats, however, just have single lower shrouds that attach just below the spreaders and terminate at the same chainplates as the outer shrouds. With this arrangement, the center section of the mat does not have any fore and aft restraints. Because the mast is under compression from tension in the stays and shrouds, it is "springy". Under certain wave and point of sail conditions, the center section of the mast will start to bend forward a little and then spring back. If It finds a resonance frequency coupled with a wave frequency, it will act like a guitar string and cause a very annoying vibration. The usual solution to this problem is to use double lower shrouds which terminate at sperate chainplates set about 18 inches fore and aft of the main chainplates.


                                                Bruce K

                                                Challenger #  74, "Ouroboros"
                                                Los Lunas, NM
                                             


                                          Bruce, I am having to learn all the terminology again since my small stroke. I really feel like a dumb ass asking this, but could you or others here explain your last two sentences. Thank God for the Annapolis book of seamanship and the boaters bible. I just haven’t got to that section yet. Hate asking! I hope you don’t mind.


                                        • Jesse Doyle
                                          Thank you Bruce. Now I won’t have any reason to feel like a D.A. From: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com [mailto:columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com]
                                          Message 20 of 24 , Mar 4, 2013
                                          • 0 Attachment

                                            Thank you Bruce. Now I won’t have any reason to feel like a  D.A.

                                             

                                            From: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com [mailto:columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kbjmjrb@...
                                            Sent: Monday, March 04, 2013 6:22 AM
                                            To: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com
                                            Subject: Re: CYOA - Re: Can't find my manual

                                             

                                             

                                            I am assuming that you are asking about mast "pumping". On a masthead rig, the top of the mast is held in place fore and aft by the stays and side to side by the outer shrouds. It is pretty well locked in. The base of the mast is held by the shoe. A lot of boats, however, just have single lower shrouds that attach just below the spreaders and terminate at the same chainplates as the outer shrouds. With this arrangement, the center section of the mat does not have any fore and aft restraints. Because the mast is under compression from tension in the stays and shrouds, it is "springy". Under certain wave and point of sail conditions, the center section of the mast will start to bend forward a little and then spring back. If It finds a resonance frequency coupled with a wave frequency, it will act like a guitar string and cause a very annoying vibration. The usual solution to this problem is to use double lower shrouds which terminate at sperate chainplates set about 18 inches fore and aft of the main chainplates.



                                                  Bruce K


                                                  Challenger #  74, "Ouroboros"
                                                  Los Lunas, NM
                                               



                                            Bruce, I am having to learn all the terminology again since my small stroke. I really feel like a dumb ass asking this, but could you or others here explain your last two sentences. Thank God for the Annapolis book of seamanship and the boaters bible. I just haven’t got to that section yet. Hate asking! I hope you don’t mind.

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