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Re: Rudder play

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  • Peter
    Had breakfast with an old chum, and he was wearing a tubular woven bandage covering where he excised the tip of a finger chopping onions. But it gave me a
    Message 1 of 14 , Feb 28, 2013
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      Had breakfast with an old chum, and he was wearing a tubular woven bandage covering where he excised the tip of a finger chopping onions.
      But it gave me a thought about how to reinforce the graphite bearing ---- Clean the rudder "shaftway" and scour it to remove gel coat and grease, to enlarge clearance about 1/8" or more of the bore, then slide a loose woven carbon graphite tube onto the prepared rudder shaft, coat the shaft and woven tube with thickened graphite epoxy mixture, wet the shaftway with graphite epoxy, and slide the shaft (now wearing an epoxy graphite saturated woven graphite sock) into the shaft way, and lock it into position with a head stock or other fixture, inject more graphite epoxy mixture, then wait until it sets. This procedure will help insure that there is a black mess everywhere, but more importantly, it will ensure reinforcement of the "bearing" with a material that has lubricity, and that stays together...
      ~ pete

      --- In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, "Larry W" <radicalcy@...> wrote:
      >
      > One of a couple of accidental holes thru the hull as I remember it Pete.
      > I've got the rudder post bushing ready to install on Mirage,as soon as the weather turns epoxy friendly. My shaft log is like Pete's, with lots of space for the install.I will have to do a little bit of grinding on the tube base diameter to make room though.
      > Larry Wilson
      >
      > --- In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, "Peter" <petemalone@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Your post makes me think about what happens if the shaft has a worn flat, hollow or ridge.
      > > These surface irregularities will imprint a negative in the epoxy fill. So, I'm thinking if the shaft were cleaned and filled first, then sanded smooth and waxed, it would be a away to compensate for a worn shaft, if that is an issue at all.
      > > I opted for installing a bronze rudder bearing on POGO, because there was room for it, and it was straightforward. Larry Wilson will tell you that I drilled a hole through the hull while fitting the bearing, and had to fill the hole with a syringe, but don't believe everything you hear or read. The action at the helm is so much smoother than before, it went from "do I bother?" to "really glad I did".
      > > ~ pete
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, "niebur32" <niebur32@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > That's pretty much what I did, epoxy with graphite (and Aerosil/Cabosil for viscosity).
      > > >
      > > > Make sure to wax the rudder post REALLY well! Even with that, it was quite sticky when the epoxy had hardended and I thought I might have cemented in my rudder permanently. It took a lot of small movements that became larger and larger until I had full mobility again.
      > > >
      > > > --Ernst
      > > >
      > > > --- In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, Richard Dondero <richard_1nj@> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > >  
      > > > >  
      > > > > HJ,
      > > > > Here is a website I used to fix the play in my rudder. It worked  for me; however, I also modified the protocol by making graphite bearings on top and the bottom of the rudder tube using the same mixture.
      > > > >  
      > > > > Richard
      > > > >  1967 Columbia 34
      > > > >  Fiberglass Boat Repair & Maintenance - WEST SYSTEM Epoxy( Step#8)
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > ________________________________
      > > > > From: "welshman@" <welshman@>
      > > > > To: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com
      > > > > Sent: Monday, February 25, 2013 11:52 PM
      > > > > Subject: CYOA - Rudder play [2 Attachments]
      > > > >
      > > > > I am attaching pics of my rudder and the rudder tube. I dropped ( rather apt term,
      > > > > got out of control a little) the rudder because there is play. I can rock it back
      > > > > and forth and I noticed vibration when I was getting the boat towed up to Napa. The
      > > > > rudder stock appears to be SS, probably 316 though I didn't put a magnet on it. The
      > > > > tube appears to be fiberglass, a hole through a serious mound of fiberglass. There
      > > > > are no bearings to replace, so I am a little at a loss on how to take the play out.
      > > > >
      > > > > I welcome suggestions.
      > > > >
      > > > > HJ
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > ------------------------------------
      > > > >
      > > > > Columbia Yacht Owners Association Website:
      > > > > http://www.columbia-yachts.com/
      > > > >
      > > > > Home:
      > > > > http://www.egroups.com/group/columbiasailingyachts/
      > > > >
      > > > > To Post a message, send it to:  columbiasailingyachts@
      > > > >
      > > > > To Subscribe, send a message to: columbiasailingyachts-subscribe@
      > > > >
      > > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: columbiasailingyachts-unsubscribe@! Groups Links
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >
    • Richard Dondero
      Pete, Wish I had all of this input when I started the rebuild, but I am new to this site. So far, in the rebuild of my 1967 Columbia 34 the rudder play issue
      Message 2 of 14 , Feb 28, 2013
      • 0 Attachment
        Pete,
        Wish I had all of this input when I started the rebuild, but I am new to this site. So far, in the rebuild of my 1967 Columbia 34 the rudder play issue was the most straight forward repair and the only thing the surveyor got right.
        When I purchased the boat the plan was just to get it in sailing condition. However, due to a bad survey and my ego it turned into a rebuild!
        The major issue was replacing about 90% of the deck core which I am glad is finished. Next comes the toe rail, Larry and others have been helpful with this endeavor.
        Richard

        From: Peter <petemalone@...>
        To: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 11:04 AM
        Subject: CYOA - Re: Rudder play

        Had breakfast with an old chum, and he was wearing a tubular woven bandage covering where he excised the tip of a finger chopping onions.
        But it gave me a thought about how to reinforce the graphite bearing ---- Clean the rudder "shaftway" and scour it to remove gel coat and grease, to enlarge clearance about 1/8" or more of the bore, then slide a loose woven carbon graphite tube onto the prepared rudder shaft, coat the shaft and woven tube with thickened graphite epoxy mixture, wet the shaftway with graphite epoxy, and slide the shaft (now wearing an epoxy graphite saturated woven graphite sock) into the shaft way, and lock it into position with a head stock or other fixture, inject more graphite epoxy mixture, then wait until it sets. This procedure will help insure that there is a black mess everywhere, but more importantly, it will ensure reinforcement of the "bearing" with a material that has lubricity, and that stays together...
        ~ pete 

        --- In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, "Larry W" <radicalcy@...> wrote:
        >
        > One of a couple of accidental holes thru the hull as I remember it Pete.
        > I've got the rudder post bushing ready to install on Mirage,as soon as the weather turns epoxy friendly. My shaft log is like Pete's, with lots of space for the install.I will have to do a little bit of grinding on the tube base diameter to make room though.
        > Larry Wilson
        >
        > --- In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, "Peter" <petemalone@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Your post makes me think about what happens if the shaft has a worn flat, hollow or ridge.
        > > These surface irregularities will imprint a negative in the epoxy fill. So, I'm thinking if the shaft were cleaned and filled first, then sanded smooth and waxed, it would be a away to compensate for a worn
        shaft, if that is an issue at all.
        > > I opted for installing a bronze rudder bearing on POGO, because there was room for it, and it was straightforward. Larry Wilson will tell you that I drilled a hole through the hull while fitting the bearing, and had to fill the hole with a syringe, but don't believe everything you hear or read. The action at the helm is so much smoother than before, it went from "do I bother?" to "really glad I did".
        > > ~ pete
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, "niebur32" <niebur32@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > That's pretty much what I did, epoxy with graphite (and Aerosil/Cabosil for viscosity).
        > > >
        > > > Make sure to wax the rudder post REALLY well! Even with that, it was quite sticky when the
        epoxy had hardended and I thought I might have cemented in my rudder permanently. It took a lot of small movements that became larger and larger until I had full mobility again.
        > > >
        > > > --Ernst
        > > >
        > > > --- In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, Richard Dondero <richard_1nj@> wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > >  
        > > > >  
        > > > > HJ,
        > > > > Here is a website I used to fix the play in my rudder. It worked  for me; however, I also modified the protocol by making graphite bearings on top and the bottom of the rudder tube using the same mixture.
        > > > >  
        > > > > Richard
        > > > >  1967 Columbia 34
        > > > >  Fiberglass Boat Repair
        & Maintenance - WEST SYSTEM Epoxy( Step#8)
        > > > > 
        > > > >
        > > > > ________________________________
        > > > >  From: "welshman@" <welshman@>
        > > > > To: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com
        > > > > Sent: Monday, February 25, 2013 11:52 PM
        > > > > Subject: CYOA - Rudder play [2 Attachments]
        > > > > 
        > > > > I am attaching pics of my rudder and the rudder tube. I dropped ( rather apt term,
        > > > > got out of control a little) the rudder because there is play. I can rock it back
        > > > > and forth and I noticed vibration when I was getting the boat towed up to Napa. The
        > > > > rudder stock appears to be SS, probably 316 though
        I didn't put a magnet on it. The
        > > > > tube appears to be fiberglass, a hole through a serious mound of fiberglass. There
        > > > > are no bearings to replace, so I am a little at a loss on how to take the play out.
        > > > >
        > > > > I welcome suggestions.
        > > > >
        > > > > HJ
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > ------------------------------------
        > > > >
        > > > > Columbia Yacht Owners Association Website:
        > > > > http://www.columbia-yachts.com/
        > > > >
        > > > > Home:
        > > > > http://www.egroups.com/group/columbiasailingyachts/
        > > > >
        > > > > To Post a message, send it
        to:  columbiasailingyachts@
        > > > >
        > > > > To Subscribe, send a message to: columbiasailingyachts-subscribe@
        > > > >
        > > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: columbiasailingyachts-unsubscribe@! Groups Links
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        > > > >
        > > >
        > >
        >




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