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Re: CYOA - Woody's 9.6 Mainsail choices

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  • woodyhoskins
    Jim! Well done..... I see says the blind man I checked out your links and it seems you have spending your time very productively, and I for one thank you for
    Message 1 of 10 , Jan 1, 2013
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      Jim! Well done..... "I see says the blind man" I checked out your links and it seems you have spending your time very productively, and I for one thank you for your service, over....../........OH about the single VERY deep reef, how deep as in numbers please.....

      --- In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, Jim Muri <irumrj@...> wrote:
      >
      > I've never had a problem storing my 9.6 mains on the boom under a cover, be they loose footed or not, battened or not.  Drop and flake, and any battens rest atop the sail as it flakes atop the boom.  I've never needed lazy jacks or Dutchman flaking systems to accomplish this, even in stiff breezes.  One of those bungee systems with wooden pegs and bungee loops that West Marine sells works perfectly and easily for tying the main to the boom as it's being lowered and flaked.
      >
      > The primary reason for loose-footing a main is that it shapes better and thus provides a bit more power. I often found myself shaping the loose-footed sail with the outhaul - I had installed a 6:1 block system at the aft end of the boom, attached to the clew of the main - instead of fiddling with the sheet and traveler.  This was much easier and more precise, and did not require me to go forward to yank on something close to the mast in order to adjust the outhaul.  All I had to do is stand in the cockpit, reach up to the outhaul block at the end of the boom, and either tension or ease as needed.
      >
      > All my mains also had Cunninghams, but in 11 years of cruising and racing I've never used them.  I'm sure they help tension the luff, but I accomplished that adjustment by way of the main halyard.  From the cockpit.  Seemed to work.
      >
      > As a geezer (I just turned 69) I'm discovering that many of the things I paid good money for concerning sails was just a waste.  Battens.  Headboards.  Bolt ropes.  Cunninghams.  More than one reef (cruisers need only one reef, and that one VERY deep).  My 'cruising' heavy dacron battenless main with a negative roach turned out to be the one that the boat liked best and produced its only trophies.  But that may be a peculiarity of the synergy between the 9.6 and its skipper.  Other boats and skippers surely will have other experiences.  However, if I were thinking of going offshore in a 9.6 (and I did), I'd go back to that same loose-footed Swedish main with a single deep reef.  Another advantage of a Swedish main is that, lacking battens and a headboard, it can be raised and lowered without having to bring the boat dead into the wind.  Nothing to snag on the lowers or spreaders.
      >
      > I built an offshore suite of sails for my 9.6, with a little help from Doyle.  That suite consisted of the Swedish main mentioned above, an 85 working jib, and a 135 high-footed Genoa.  I had a whisker pole, but no spinnaker as I had no interest in flying a spinnaker offshore.  For dead downwind sailing my thinking was - and is - that wing and wing, with poling out the head sail, is good enough.  Others will have different ideas about that, but then I'm a geezer and tending a spinnaker seems like a lot of work for not a lot of gain.  Better to spend that time and energy heating up some chili.
      >
      > Happy new year to all you fellow Columbiads.
      >
      > James R. Muri
      >
      > Novelist, Sailor
      > BUY: My e-Novels at http://blizzardguy.com/venture/
      > SITE: http://blizzardguy.com
      > BLOG: http://theostrichkiller.blogspot.com
      >
      >
      > ________________________________
      > From: "Kbjmjrb@..." <Kbjmjrb@...>
      > To: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 6:26 AM
      > Subject: Re: CYOA - Woody's 9.6 Mainsail choices
      >
      >
      >  
      > It does depend on the type of sailing one does. If one prefers to store the main on the boom under a cover, then a bolt rope foot, luff hanks, and no battens make sense. If the preference is to take the main off when not in use, then a free foot makes sense. I store my main on the boom but use a "racer roll". I drop the main, fold it in half, secure the head to the clew, roll it up starting at the fold, and secure the roll to the boom. This way, the battens are parallel to the boom when rolled up. (I also store the main below, boom and all, when the boat is not in use. This is not an option for larger boats). Some traditional blue water sailors have mentioned that they prefer a free footed main because they reef better. The gasket lines can be tied just around the excess cloth of the sail rather than around the boom as well. This reduces chaff and prevents any cloth distortion if the reef has to be maintained for days on end.
      >
      >
      >       Bruce K
      >       Challenger # 74, "Ouroboros"
      >       Los Lunas, NM
      >
      >
      >
      > >
      > >
      > >Why not buy a basic sturdy main without features other than three reef points?  It will cost less now, cause less trouble over it's life, and if you become obsessed with battens and cunninghams and so forth later - get another main Then.  Right now take a little negative roach and go sailing with it.
      > >
      > >Plus;  a no-batten mainsail looks so much better in the pictures taken of the boat sailing. <g>
      > >
      > >stephen
      > >----------
      > >
      >
    • woodyhoskins
      Dan, When I started this dream I was looking seriously at a Pearson Vanguard, old school mind you , the 32 footer. Realizing the seaworthiness of this vessel
      Message 2 of 10 , Jan 1, 2013
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        Dan, When I started this dream I was looking seriously at a Pearson Vanguard, old school mind you , the 32 footer. Realizing the seaworthiness of this vessel and doing research on the net led me to the "Atom's Voyages" site. I have downloaded some of Mr. Baldwins stuff to keep in my library of sorts and do highly value his work and opinions. Thanks for the invite....../)......
        --- In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Grant <danielgrant@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > Woody why don't you email James Baldwin aand ask him about his thoughts. He is usually responsive to questions. You can tell him I referred you. Dan. Mack would give you good advice. I think I would stay with what came on th eboat. but that is my 2 cents worth. Dan
        > > To: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com
        > > From: woods.trading@...
        > > Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 05:14:49 +0000
        > > Subject: CYOA - Woody's 9.6 Mainsail choices
        > >
        > > Well after researching the different types of mainsails, I'm as confused as ever!! I think I have decided to not have full battens, keep the bolt rope foot and head board, pretty much like the old main! But I feel slightly hesitant, cause I realize technology has improved since 1976 but I am still confused. Maybe the folks at Mack sails will make up my mind for me! Lots of good info on the net about either but still leaving me undecided. I like the idea of "old" ways were good ways and I am using hank on head sails so I guess I'll keep with the original program. After all what the hell do I know about performance? I haven't got offshore in a breeze yet! I have had the mainsail against the shrouds and it seems that it will be there often so battens are said to chafe the sail quickly so they are out. Columbia manual said sail had no roach either. It was easier to make decisions when I was stoned!..../)......
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ------------------------------------
        > >
        > > Columbia Yacht Owners Association Website:
        > > http://www.columbia-yachts.com/
        > >
        > > Home:
        > > http://www.egroups.com/group/columbiasailingyachts/
        > >
        > > To Post a message, send it to: columbiasailingyachts@...
        > >
        > > To Subscribe, send a message to: columbiasailingyachts-subscribe@...
        > >
        > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: columbiasailingyachts-unsubscribe@...! Groups Links
        > >
        > >
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        >
      • Jim Muri
        Thank you for your kind words, Woody.  Hope your sail projects work out satisfactorily for you. My DEEP reef on the mainsail devolved from the personal
        Message 3 of 10 , Jan 1, 2013
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          Thank you for your kind words, Woody.  Hope your sail projects work out satisfactorily for you.

          My "DEEP" reef on the mainsail devolved from the personal philosophy that when it't time to reef, it isn't time to screw around about it.  Taking bite-sized reefs would mean having to take another reef, and another, as wind conditions worsened.  I didn't like what that implied about what I'd have to do and where I'd have to do it.  So the idea of incremental reefing went out the window.  Talking w/ my Doyle sails guy, we came up with the solution of a reef point that left about 25 - 30% of the main's area available.  This would give a 'trysail' type of capability for the main.  My headsail furled, so that powering it down was just a matter of winding it up a bit for helm balance.  On my current boat (an 11.8) both the headsail and the main furl - and they have identical furlers, which means stocking spares is simplified.

          Yes, I know that one loses efficiency and some pointing ability when one partially furls a headsail, however, I am fond of telling people that when it't time to power down, efficiency has dropped way down the list of priorities, far below comfort and safety.

          I think I read that you have hank-on headsails.  There is a way to drop those sails w/out going forward.  You'll need some light nylon line.  Tie one end to the head of the jib, weave the rest down through a couple of the gaps between the luff and the headstay, and run the bitter end through the tack and back to the cockpit.  A small turning block attached to a pulpit stanchion might help.  To drop the sail in a stiff wind, you release the halyard and pull on that light line until the sail is on the deck.  Keeping the sheet tight and the light line tight will prevent the sail from ballooning, and if you've attached bungees to your lower life lines you can crawl forward if you like to tie that headsail down until conditions improve.

          Or you could install a DIY furler.  I used one of these:  http://www.aladous.com/  Less than half the cost of the 'name' brands, and no labor charges.
           

          From: woodyhoskins <woods.trading@...>
          To: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Tuesday, January 1, 2013 6:36 AM
          Subject: Re: CYOA - Woody's 9.6 Mainsail choices

           
          Jim! Well done..... "I see says the blind man" I checked out your links and it seems you have spending your time very productively, and I for one thank you for your service, over....../........OH about the single VERY deep reef, how deep as in numbers please.....

          --- In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, Jim Muri <irumrj@...> wrote:
          >
          > I've never had a problem storing my 9.6 mains on the boom under a cover, be they loose footed or not, battened or not.  Drop and flake, and any battens rest atop the sail as it flakes atop the boom.  I've never needed lazy jacks or Dutchman flaking systems to accomplish this, even in stiff breezes.  One of those bungee systems with wooden pegs and bungee loops that West Marine sells works perfectly and easily for tying the main to the boom as it's being lowered and flaked.
          >
          > The primary reason for loose-footing a main is that it shapes better and thus provides a bit more power. I often found myself shaping the loose-footed sail with the outhaul - I had installed a 6:1 block system at the aft end of the boom, attached to the clew of the main - instead of fiddling with the sheet and traveler.  This was much easier and more precise, and did not require me to go forward to yank on something close to the mast in order to adjust the outhaul.  All I had to do is stand in the cockpit, reach up to the outhaul block at the end of the boom, and either tension or ease as needed.
          >
          > All my mains also had Cunninghams, but in 11 years of cruising and racing I've never used them.  I'm sure they help tension the luff, but I accomplished that adjustment by way of the main halyard.  From the cockpit.  Seemed to work.
          >
          > As a geezer (I just turned 69) I'm discovering that many of the things I paid good money for concerning sails was just a waste.  Battens.  Headboards.  Bolt ropes.  Cunninghams.  More than one reef (cruisers need only one reef, and that one VERY deep).  My 'cruising' heavy dacron battenless main with a negative roach turned out to be the one that the boat liked best and produced its only trophies.  But that may be a peculiarity of the synergy between the 9.6 and its skipper.  Other boats and skippers surely will have other experiences.  However, if I were thinking of going offshore in a 9.6 (and I did), I'd go back to that same loose-footed Swedish main with a single deep reef.  Another advantage of a Swedish main is that, lacking battens and a headboard, it can be raised and lowered without having to bring the boat dead into the wind.  Nothing to snag on the lowers or spreaders.
          >
          > I built an offshore suite of sails for my 9.6, with a little help from Doyle.  That suite consisted of the Swedish main mentioned above, an 85 working jib, and a 135 high-footed Genoa.  I had a whisker pole, but no spinnaker as I had no interest in flying a spinnaker offshore.  For dead downwind sailing my thinking was - and is - that wing and wing, with poling out the head sail, is good enough.  Others will have different ideas about that, but then I'm a geezer and tending a spinnaker seems like a lot of work for not a lot of gain.  Better to spend that time and energy heating up some chili.
          >
          > Happy new year to all you fellow Columbiads.
          >
          > James R. Muri
          >
          > Novelist, Sailor
          > BUY: My e-Novels at http://blizzardguy.com/venture/
          > SITE: http://blizzardguy.com
          > BLOG: http://theostrichkiller.blogspot.com
          >
          >
          > ________________________________
          > From: "Kbjmjrb@..." <Kbjmjrb@...>
          > To: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 6:26 AM
          > Subject: Re: CYOA - Woody's 9.6 Mainsail choices
          >
          >
          >  
          > It does depend on the type of sailing one does. If one prefers to store the main on the boom under a cover, then a bolt rope foot, luff hanks, and no battens make sense. If the preference is to take the main off when not in use, then a free foot makes sense. I store my main on the boom but use a "racer roll". I drop the main, fold it in half, secure the head to the clew, roll it up starting at the fold, and secure the roll to the boom. This way, the battens are parallel to the boom when rolled up. (I also store the main below, boom and all, when the boat is not in use. This is not an option for larger boats). Some traditional blue water sailors have mentioned that they prefer a free footed main because they reef better. The gasket lines can be tied just around the excess cloth of the sail rather than around the boom as well. This reduces chaff and prevents any cloth distortion if the reef has to be maintained for days on end.
          >
          >
          >       Bruce K
          >       Challenger # 74, "Ouroboros"
          >       Los Lunas, NM
          >
          >
          >
          > >
          > >
          > >Why not buy a basic sturdy main without features other than three reef points?  It will cost less now, cause less trouble over it's life, and if you become obsessed with battens and cunninghams and so forth later - get another main Then.  Right now take a little negative roach and go sailing with it.
          > >
          > >Plus;  a no-batten mainsail looks so much better in the pictures taken of the boat sailing. <g>
          > >
          > >stephen
          > >----------
          > >
          >



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