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please be gentle ---

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  • Peter
    The upfit plan for the new roller furler took another couple turns this week. Converting the 5 year old genoa morphed into ordering a new genoa built, and
    Message 1 of 23 , Oct 30, 2010
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      The upfit plan for the new roller furler took another couple turns this week.
      Converting the 5 year old genoa morphed into ordering a new genoa built, and various bits of accessory hardware were ordered, but I am walking blind through this whole thing, no prior experience, and getting occasional brief glimpses of the unexpected lying ahead....
      How do people who keep furlers deal with conditions that are sub-optimal, like winds too strong to fly the furling sail at a good point, where it becomes more a liability than asset? How about going to weather, is that seriously compromised by the furler section and sail aerodynamics being altered with the thick leading edge.
      See, I started out doing this upfit because I want less work on deck, some adjustability of sail area, and ease of storage and use.
      I love setting a headsail and working close to weather, but the back doesn't like sail changes, and I want to have easier single-handing.
      Now, thinking about what am I gonna do to deal with higher winds, and realizing my jib halyard is gonna be taken up by the furler, I start thinking how to add halyard, moveable inner fore stay and staysail, and other notions.
      If you have any sympathy, say some soothing words about how it was good the first time, and how it just gets better, not to worry....
      ~pete
    • Kbjmjrb@cs.com
      Well, pete, you have mentioned several of the drawbacks of roller furling. The roller mechanism does wreak havoc with the wind flow and the sail is only shaped
      Message 2 of 23 , Oct 30, 2010
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        Well, pete, you have mentioned several of the drawbacks of roller furling. The roller mechanism does wreak havoc with the wind flow and the sail is only shaped correctly when fully extended. It also makes it very difficult to mount luff tells to use as trim aids. But you have to weigh this against convenience. It's the same as giving up the stick shift for the ol' slush box in the family buggy. The car is not always in the optimum rpm/gear ratio combination. but at least the driver does not drop the cell phone into the cup of coffee while shifting gears. Some folks have tried various schemes such as foam inserts to try to maintain a proper foil shape while reefed; but, in general, it's a matter of accepting some loss in performance. At least the boat does move, so all is not lost. Also, the breakover point on jib to main sail is around a 140% genoa. Smaller than this, and the main is the primary driver and the jib is directing air to help. Larger than this, and the jib becomes the primer driver. So, touch up your main sail trim gear and learn to read the local wind based on tells tied to the shrouds.




              Bruce K
              Challenger # 74, "Ouroboros"
              Los Lunas, NM


        The upfit plan for the new roller furler took another couple turns this week.
        Converting the 5 year old genoa morphed into ordering a new genoa built, and various bits of accessory hardware were ordered, but I am walking blind through this whole thing, no prior experience, and getting occasional brief glimpses of the unexpected lying ahead....
        How do people who keep furlers deal with conditions that are sub-optimal, like winds too strong to fly the furling sail at a good point, where it becomes more a liability than asset? How about going to weather, is that seriously compromised by the furler section and sail aerodynamics being altered with the thick leading edge.
        See, I started out doing this upfit because I want less work on deck, some adjustability of sail area, and ease of storage and use.
        I love setting a headsail and working close to weather, but the back doesn't like sail changes, and I want to have easier single-handing.
        Now, thinking about what am I gonna do to deal with higher winds, and realizing my jib halyard is gonna be taken up by the furler, I start thinking how to add halyard, moveable inner fore stay and staysail, and other notions.
        If you have any sympathy, say some soothing words about how it was good the first time, and how it just gets better, not to worry....
        ~pete
      • woodyhoskins
        Pete, You are the best! No I don t do My face or Space Book or whatever. My hippie friend put me on Facebook. Just wanted to inject some humour. I laughed for
        Message 3 of 23 , Oct 30, 2010
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          Pete, You are the best! No I don't do My face or Space Book or whatever. My hippie friend put me on Facebook. Just wanted to inject some humour. I laughed for a few minutes even though I knew the def. would be lost to some. I do not know much at all about your query but ...I have seen references to advice on adding extra self tailing winches to 9.6. And have seen winches on the cabin top. Get er done!

          --- In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, "Peter" <petemalone@...> wrote:
          >
          > The upfit plan for the new roller furler took another couple turns this week.
          > Converting the 5 year old genoa morphed into ordering a new genoa built, and various bits of accessory hardware were ordered, but I am walking blind through this whole thing, no prior experience, and getting occasional brief glimpses of the unexpected lying ahead....
          > How do people who keep furlers deal with conditions that are sub-optimal, like winds too strong to fly the furling sail at a good point, where it becomes more a liability than asset? How about going to weather, is that seriously compromised by the furler section and sail aerodynamics being altered with the thick leading edge.
          > See, I started out doing this upfit because I want less work on deck, some adjustability of sail area, and ease of storage and use.
          > I love setting a headsail and working close to weather, but the back doesn't like sail changes, and I want to have easier single-handing.
          > Now, thinking about what am I gonna do to deal with higher winds, and realizing my jib halyard is gonna be taken up by the furler, I start thinking how to add halyard, moveable inner fore stay and staysail, and other notions.
          > If you have any sympathy, say some soothing words about how it was good the first time, and how it just gets better, not to worry....
          > ~pete
          >
        • woodyhoskins
          Pete, I vote go with the furler and enjoy yourself. You deserve it! And you can learn to read the wind as Bruce said. It seems folks for years now have used
          Message 4 of 23 , Oct 30, 2010
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            Pete, I vote go with the furler and enjoy yourself. You deserve it! And you can learn to read the wind as Bruce said. It seems folks for years now have used furlers with much success. I think you will do fine.

            --- In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, "woodyhoskins" <woods.trading@...> wrote:
            >
            > Pete, You are the best! No I don't do My face or Space Book or whatever. My hippie friend put me on Facebook. Just wanted to inject some humour. I laughed for a few minutes even though I knew the def. would be lost to some. I do not know much at all about your query but ...I have seen references to advice on adding extra self tailing winches to 9.6. And have seen winches on the cabin top. Get er done!
            >
            > --- In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, "Peter" <petemalone@> wrote:
            > >
            > > The upfit plan for the new roller furler took another couple turns this week.
            > > Converting the 5 year old genoa morphed into ordering a new genoa built, and various bits of accessory hardware were ordered, but I am walking blind through this whole thing, no prior experience, and getting occasional brief glimpses of the unexpected lying ahead....
            > > How do people who keep furlers deal with conditions that are sub-optimal, like winds too strong to fly the furling sail at a good point, where it becomes more a liability than asset? How about going to weather, is that seriously compromised by the furler section and sail aerodynamics being altered with the thick leading edge.
            > > See, I started out doing this upfit because I want less work on deck, some adjustability of sail area, and ease of storage and use.
            > > I love setting a headsail and working close to weather, but the back doesn't like sail changes, and I want to have easier single-handing.
            > > Now, thinking about what am I gonna do to deal with higher winds, and realizing my jib halyard is gonna be taken up by the furler, I start thinking how to add halyard, moveable inner fore stay and staysail, and other notions.
            > > If you have any sympathy, say some soothing words about how it was good the first time, and how it just gets better, not to worry....
            > > ~pete
            > >
            >
          • Larry W
            Trust me...it will only hurt for a minute......... You re not racing, though I know that you love optimum (optimal?) sail efficiency,but a small loss of speed
            Message 5 of 23 , Oct 30, 2010
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              Trust me...it will only hurt for a minute.........
              You're not racing, though I know that you love optimum (optimal?) sail efficiency,but a small loss of speed and pointing ability should not be a concern, with the type of sailing that we do.
              Different boats for sure, but our friend Martin has no problems on the CS, furling his jib in high wind situations, except for the occasional overwrap,and the boat still goes to wind with the sail partially rolled up. Maybe not as close, so not as fast, but it still beats climbing up on the bow in weather, especially when single handing. Of course, a nice new Raymarine wheel pilot with wind unit would help.
              Don't agonize over it. Get the furler set up, install an extra halyard. Blue Streak, the Sabre I destroyed, had halyard sheaves installed on the outside face of the mast truck. There were two steel plates,two sheaves with brass bushings and stainless shafts. I still have the parts somewhere, and the mast, if you wanted to see the setup.
              Having said all that, I know that you will continue to agonize, so have at it,and the solution will eventually present itself.
              Signed,
              Anonymous....LOL

              --- In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, "Peter" <petemalone@...> wrote:
              >
              > The upfit plan for the new roller furler took another couple turns this week.
              > Converting the 5 year old genoa morphed into ordering a new genoa built, and various bits of accessory hardware were ordered, but I am walking blind through this whole thing, no prior experience, and getting occasional brief glimpses of the unexpected lying ahead....
              > How do people who keep furlers deal with conditions that are sub-optimal, like winds too strong to fly the furling sail at a good point, where it becomes more a liability than asset? How about going to weather, is that seriously compromised by the furler section and sail aerodynamics being altered with the thick leading edge.
              > See, I started out doing this upfit because I want less work on deck, some adjustability of sail area, and ease of storage and use.
              > I love setting a headsail and working close to weather, but the back doesn't like sail changes, and I want to have easier single-handing.
              > Now, thinking about what am I gonna do to deal with higher winds, and realizing my jib halyard is gonna be taken up by the furler, I start thinking how to add halyard, moveable inner fore stay and staysail, and other notions.
              > If you have any sympathy, say some soothing words about how it was good the first time, and how it just gets better, not to worry....
              > ~pete
              >
            • Peter
              That s really helpful, I was starting to think about scabbing on a pair of sheaves and a plate, and now you describe the whole works! But do I need a spare
              Message 6 of 23 , Oct 30, 2010
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                That's really helpful, I was starting to think about scabbing on a pair of sheaves and a plate, and now you describe the whole works!
                But do I need a spare halyard if there's no stay to raise a storm sail or blade...so that means...what, a wire luff sail?
                Crap what am I talking about, you're right of course, I gotta stop obsessing, get this furler rig going, learn to live by its rules, and save the fixes for when I know I have a problem.
                Shoulda asked myself WWLD, eh?
                Besides, installing masthead sheaves when the mast is up is more fun than doing it on the ground...
                ~ pete

                --- In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, "Larry W" <radicalcy@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Trust me...it will only hurt for a minute.........
                > You're not racing, though I know that you love optimum (optimal?) sail efficiency,but a small loss of speed and pointing ability should not be a concern, with the type of sailing that we do.
                > Different boats for sure, but our friend Martin has no problems on the CS, furling his jib in high wind situations, except for the occasional overwrap,and the boat still goes to wind with the sail partially rolled up. Maybe not as close, so not as fast, but it still beats climbing up on the bow in weather, especially when single handing. Of course, a nice new Raymarine wheel pilot with wind unit would help.
                > Don't agonize over it. Get the furler set up, install an extra halyard. Blue Streak, the Sabre I destroyed, had halyard sheaves installed on the outside face of the mast truck. There were two steel plates,two sheaves with brass bushings and stainless shafts. I still have the parts somewhere, and the mast, if you wanted to see the setup.
                > Having said all that, I know that you will continue to agonize, so have at it,and the solution will eventually present itself.
                > Signed,
                > Anonymous....LOL
                >
                > --- In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, "Peter" <petemalone@> wrote:
                > >
                > > The upfit plan for the new roller furler took another couple turns this week.
                > > Converting the 5 year old genoa morphed into ordering a new genoa built, and various bits of accessory hardware were ordered, but I am walking blind through this whole thing, no prior experience, and getting occasional brief glimpses of the unexpected lying ahead....
                > > How do people who keep furlers deal with conditions that are sub-optimal, like winds too strong to fly the furling sail at a good point, where it becomes more a liability than asset? How about going to weather, is that seriously compromised by the furler section and sail aerodynamics being altered with the thick leading edge.
                > > See, I started out doing this upfit because I want less work on deck, some adjustability of sail area, and ease of storage and use.
                > > I love setting a headsail and working close to weather, but the back doesn't like sail changes, and I want to have easier single-handing.
                > > Now, thinking about what am I gonna do to deal with higher winds, and realizing my jib halyard is gonna be taken up by the furler, I start thinking how to add halyard, moveable inner fore stay and staysail, and other notions.
                > > If you have any sympathy, say some soothing words about how it was good the first time, and how it just gets better, not to worry....
                > > ~pete
                > >
                >
              • jeff t
                I like your attitude Pete...
                Message 7 of 23 , Oct 30, 2010
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                  I like your attitude Pete...

                  --- In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, "Peter" <petemalone@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > That's really helpful, I was starting to think about scabbing on a pair of sheaves and a plate, and now you describe the whole works!
                  > But do I need a spare halyard if there's no stay to raise a storm sail or blade...so that means...what, a wire luff sail?
                  > Crap what am I talking about, you're right of course, I gotta stop obsessing, get this furler rig going, learn to live by its rules, and save the fixes for when I know I have a problem.
                  > Shoulda asked myself WWLD, eh?
                  > Besides, installing masthead sheaves when the mast is up is more fun than doing it on the ground...
                  > ~ pete
                  >
                  > --- In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, "Larry W" <radicalcy@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Trust me...it will only hurt for a minute.........
                  > > You're not racing, though I know that you love optimum (optimal?) sail efficiency,but a small loss of speed and pointing ability should not be a concern, with the type of sailing that we do.
                  > > Different boats for sure, but our friend Martin has no problems on the CS, furling his jib in high wind situations, except for the occasional overwrap,and the boat still goes to wind with the sail partially rolled up. Maybe not as close, so not as fast, but it still beats climbing up on the bow in weather, especially when single handing. Of course, a nice new Raymarine wheel pilot with wind unit would help.
                  > > Don't agonize over it. Get the furler set up, install an extra halyard. Blue Streak, the Sabre I destroyed, had halyard sheaves installed on the outside face of the mast truck. There were two steel plates,two sheaves with brass bushings and stainless shafts. I still have the parts somewhere, and the mast, if you wanted to see the setup.
                  > > Having said all that, I know that you will continue to agonize, so have at it,and the solution will eventually present itself.
                  > > Signed,
                  > > Anonymous....LOL
                  > >
                  > > --- In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, "Peter" <petemalone@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > The upfit plan for the new roller furler took another couple turns this week.
                  > > > Converting the 5 year old genoa morphed into ordering a new genoa built, and various bits of accessory hardware were ordered, but I am walking blind through this whole thing, no prior experience, and getting occasional brief glimpses of the unexpected lying ahead....
                  > > > How do people who keep furlers deal with conditions that are sub-optimal, like winds too strong to fly the furling sail at a good point, where it becomes more a liability than asset? How about going to weather, is that seriously compromised by the furler section and sail aerodynamics being altered with the thick leading edge.
                  > > > See, I started out doing this upfit because I want less work on deck, some adjustability of sail area, and ease of storage and use.
                  > > > I love setting a headsail and working close to weather, but the back doesn't like sail changes, and I want to have easier single-handing.
                  > > > Now, thinking about what am I gonna do to deal with higher winds, and realizing my jib halyard is gonna be taken up by the furler, I start thinking how to add halyard, moveable inner fore stay and staysail, and other notions.
                  > > > If you have any sympathy, say some soothing words about how it was good the first time, and how it just gets better, not to worry....
                  > > > ~pete
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
                • Peter
                  thanks, but if you mean the flying around aloft is the part you like, I gotta tell you my ribs hurt thinking about going up there. ~pete
                  Message 8 of 23 , Oct 30, 2010
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                    thanks, but if you mean the flying around aloft is the part you like, I gotta tell you my ribs hurt thinking about going up there.
                    ~pete

                    --- In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, "jeff t" <jefftalbut@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I like your attitude Pete...
                    >
                    > --- In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, "Peter" <petemalone@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > That's really helpful, I was starting to think about scabbing on a pair of sheaves and a plate, and now you describe the whole works!
                    > > But do I need a spare halyard if there's no stay to raise a storm sail or blade...so that means...what, a wire luff sail?
                    > > Crap what am I talking about, you're right of course, I gotta stop obsessing, get this furler rig going, learn to live by its rules, and save the fixes for when I know I have a problem.
                    > > Shoulda asked myself WWLD, eh?
                    > > Besides, installing masthead sheaves when the mast is up is more fun than doing it on the ground...
                    > > ~ pete
                    > >
                    > > --- In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, "Larry W" <radicalcy@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Trust me...it will only hurt for a minute.........
                    > > > You're not racing, though I know that you love optimum (optimal?) sail efficiency,but a small loss of speed and pointing ability should not be a concern, with the type of sailing that we do.
                    > > > Different boats for sure, but our friend Martin has no problems on the CS, furling his jib in high wind situations, except for the occasional overwrap,and the boat still goes to wind with the sail partially rolled up. Maybe not as close, so not as fast, but it still beats climbing up on the bow in weather, especially when single handing. Of course, a nice new Raymarine wheel pilot with wind unit would help.
                    > > > Don't agonize over it. Get the furler set up, install an extra halyard. Blue Streak, the Sabre I destroyed, had halyard sheaves installed on the outside face of the mast truck. There were two steel plates,two sheaves with brass bushings and stainless shafts. I still have the parts somewhere, and the mast, if you wanted to see the setup.
                    > > > Having said all that, I know that you will continue to agonize, so have at it,and the solution will eventually present itself.
                    > > > Signed,
                    > > > Anonymous....LOL
                    > > >
                    > > > --- In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, "Peter" <petemalone@> wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > > > The upfit plan for the new roller furler took another couple turns this week.
                    > > > > Converting the 5 year old genoa morphed into ordering a new genoa built, and various bits of accessory hardware were ordered, but I am walking blind through this whole thing, no prior experience, and getting occasional brief glimpses of the unexpected lying ahead....
                    > > > > How do people who keep furlers deal with conditions that are sub-optimal, like winds too strong to fly the furling sail at a good point, where it becomes more a liability than asset? How about going to weather, is that seriously compromised by the furler section and sail aerodynamics being altered with the thick leading edge.
                    > > > > See, I started out doing this upfit because I want less work on deck, some adjustability of sail area, and ease of storage and use.
                    > > > > I love setting a headsail and working close to weather, but the back doesn't like sail changes, and I want to have easier single-handing.
                    > > > > Now, thinking about what am I gonna do to deal with higher winds, and realizing my jib halyard is gonna be taken up by the furler, I start thinking how to add halyard, moveable inner fore stay and staysail, and other notions.
                    > > > > If you have any sympathy, say some soothing words about how it was good the first time, and how it just gets better, not to worry....
                    > > > > ~pete
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >
                  • Larry W
                    I think the correct procedure would be to ask WWLD and then run screaming and do the exact opposite....but what do I know? Larry
                    Message 9 of 23 , Oct 30, 2010
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                      I think the correct procedure would be to ask WWLD and then run screaming and do the exact opposite....but what do I know?
                      Larry

                      --- In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, "Peter" <petemalone@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > That's really helpful, I was starting to think about scabbing on a pair of sheaves and a plate, and now you describe the whole works!
                      > But do I need a spare halyard if there's no stay to raise a storm sail or blade...so that means...what, a wire luff sail?
                      > Crap what am I talking about, you're right of course, I gotta stop obsessing, get this furler rig going, learn to live by its rules, and save the fixes for when I know I have a problem.
                      > Shoulda asked myself WWLD, eh?
                      > Besides, installing masthead sheaves when the mast is up is more fun than doing it on the ground...
                      > ~ pete
                      >
                      > --- In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, "Larry W" <radicalcy@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Trust me...it will only hurt for a minute.........
                      > > You're not racing, though I know that you love optimum (optimal?) sail efficiency,but a small loss of speed and pointing ability should not be a concern, with the type of sailing that we do.
                      > > Different boats for sure, but our friend Martin has no problems on the CS, furling his jib in high wind situations, except for the occasional overwrap,and the boat still goes to wind with the sail partially rolled up. Maybe not as close, so not as fast, but it still beats climbing up on the bow in weather, especially when single handing. Of course, a nice new Raymarine wheel pilot with wind unit would help.
                      > > Don't agonize over it. Get the furler set up, install an extra halyard. Blue Streak, the Sabre I destroyed, had halyard sheaves installed on the outside face of the mast truck. There were two steel plates,two sheaves with brass bushings and stainless shafts. I still have the parts somewhere, and the mast, if you wanted to see the setup.
                      > > Having said all that, I know that you will continue to agonize, so have at it,and the solution will eventually present itself.
                      > > Signed,
                      > > Anonymous....LOL
                      > >
                      > > --- In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, "Peter" <petemalone@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > The upfit plan for the new roller furler took another couple turns this week.
                      > > > Converting the 5 year old genoa morphed into ordering a new genoa built, and various bits of accessory hardware were ordered, but I am walking blind through this whole thing, no prior experience, and getting occasional brief glimpses of the unexpected lying ahead....
                      > > > How do people who keep furlers deal with conditions that are sub-optimal, like winds too strong to fly the furling sail at a good point, where it becomes more a liability than asset? How about going to weather, is that seriously compromised by the furler section and sail aerodynamics being altered with the thick leading edge.
                      > > > See, I started out doing this upfit because I want less work on deck, some adjustability of sail area, and ease of storage and use.
                      > > > I love setting a headsail and working close to weather, but the back doesn't like sail changes, and I want to have easier single-handing.
                      > > > Now, thinking about what am I gonna do to deal with higher winds, and realizing my jib halyard is gonna be taken up by the furler, I start thinking how to add halyard, moveable inner fore stay and staysail, and other notions.
                      > > > If you have any sympathy, say some soothing words about how it was good the first time, and how it just gets better, not to worry....
                      > > > ~pete
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
                    • Bill Casnovsky
                      Peter, My concerns about furlers have gone away now that I own a boat with a movable inner fore stay. Tried it out this week-end. The wind was blowing about 18
                      Message 10 of 23 , Nov 1, 2010
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                        Peter,
                         
                        My concerns about furlers have gone away now that I own a boat with a movable inner fore stay. Tried it out this week-end. The wind was blowing about 18 knots. Left the 130% furled jib rolled up. Hanked on a 100% working jib to the adjustable forestay and sailed well all afternoon with full main and 100. Also, going forward, should I run into a problem with the furler, the adjustable forestay gives me peace of mind as my backup.
                         
                        Bill Caz.
                        C26MK2, Banshee
                        Passport 40, Abisag
                        Austin, Tx.
                         
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: Peter
                        Sent: Saturday, October 30, 2010 8:07 AM
                        Subject: CYOA - please be gentle ---

                         

                        The upfit plan for the new roller furler took another couple turns this week.
                        Converting the 5 year old genoa morphed into ordering a new genoa built, and various bits of accessory hardware were ordered, but I am walking blind through this whole thing, no prior experience, and getting occasional brief glimpses of the unexpected lying ahead....
                        How do people who keep furlers deal with conditions that are sub-optimal, like winds too strong to fly the furling sail at a good point, where it becomes more a liability than asset? How about going to weather, is that seriously compromised by the furler section and sail aerodynamics being altered with the thick leading edge.
                        See, I started out doing this upfit because I want less work on deck, some adjustability of sail area, and ease of storage and use.
                        I love setting a headsail and working close to weather, but the back doesn't like sail changes, and I want to have easier single-handing.
                        Now, thinking about what am I gonna do to deal with higher winds, and realizing my jib halyard is gonna be taken up by the furler, I start thinking how to add halyard, moveable inner fore stay and staysail, and other notions.
                        If you have any sympathy, say some soothing words about how it was good the first time, and how it just gets better, not to worry....
                        ~pete


                      • Peter
                        Bill, That s a great testimony. How is it rigged? Can you use the furler and the staysail at the same time in light air? ~pete
                        Message 11 of 23 , Nov 2, 2010
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                          Bill,
                          That's a great testimony. How is it rigged? Can you use the furler and the staysail at the same time in light air?
                          ~pete

                          --- In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Casnovsky" <bill@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Peter,
                          >
                          > My concerns about furlers have gone away now that I own a boat with a movable inner fore stay. Tried it out this week-end. The wind was blowing about 18 knots. Left the 130% furled jib rolled up. Hanked on a 100% working jib to the adjustable forestay and sailed well all afternoon with full main and 100. Also, going forward, should I run into a problem with the furler, the adjustable forestay gives me peace of mind as my backup.
                          >
                          > Bill Caz.
                          > C26MK2, Banshee
                          > Passport 40, Abisag
                          > Austin, Tx.
                          >
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: Peter
                          > To: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com
                          > Sent: Saturday, October 30, 2010 8:07 AM
                          > Subject: CYOA - please be gentle ---
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > The upfit plan for the new roller furler took another couple turns this week.
                          > Converting the 5 year old genoa morphed into ordering a new genoa built, and various bits of accessory hardware were ordered, but I am walking blind through this whole thing, no prior experience, and getting occasional brief glimpses of the unexpected lying ahead....
                          > How do people who keep furlers deal with conditions that are sub-optimal, like winds too strong to fly the furling sail at a good point, where it becomes more a liability than asset? How about going to weather, is that seriously compromised by the furler section and sail aerodynamics being altered with the thick leading edge.
                          > See, I started out doing this upfit because I want less work on deck, some adjustability of sail area, and ease of storage and use.
                          > I love setting a headsail and working close to weather, but the back doesn't like sail changes, and I want to have easier single-handing.
                          > Now, thinking about what am I gonna do to deal with higher winds, and realizing my jib halyard is gonna be taken up by the furler, I start thinking how to add halyard, moveable inner fore stay and staysail, and other notions.
                          > If you have any sympathy, say some soothing words about how it was good the first time, and how it just gets better, not to worry....
                          > ~pete
                          >
                        • Bill Casnovsky
                          Peter, Currently, the adjustable forestay couples to hardware on the bow and is positioned about 8 aft of the furler drum. If both the furling jib and
                          Message 12 of 23 , Nov 2, 2010
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Peter,
                             
                            Currently, the adjustable forestay couples to hardware on the bow and is positioned about 8" aft of the furler drum. If both the furling jib and adjustable forestay jib are flown simutaniously, That 8" gap will not allow much air to flow between the luffs of either sail. Best performance will be to sail each one at a time. However, I do have an optional stainless plate with integral pad eyes that can be attached to the fore deck at about 3 feet aft of the furler. If I decide to put new screw holes and backing plate in my deck, I would then effectively turn the sloop rig into a cutter rig. BTW, my main is fully battened from mast to leech. I also have a geniker in a long sock arrangement that I need to figure out, mount and fly to see how it works.
                             
                            Bill Caz
                            C26MK2, Banshee
                            Passport 40, Abisag
                            Austin, TX.
                              
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: Peter
                            Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 8:49 PM
                            Subject: Re: CYOA - please be gentle ---

                             

                            Bill,
                            That's a great testimony. How is it rigged? Can you use the furler and the staysail at the same time in light air?
                            ~pete

                            --- In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Casnovsky" <bill@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Peter,
                            >
                            > My concerns about furlers have gone away now that I own a boat with a movable inner fore stay. Tried it out this week-end. The wind was blowing about 18 knots. Left the 130% furled jib rolled up. Hanked on a 100% working jib to the adjustable forestay and sailed well all afternoon with full main and 100. Also, going forward, should I run into a problem with the furler, the adjustable forestay gives me peace of mind as my backup.
                            >
                            > Bill Caz.
                            > C26MK2, Banshee
                            > Passport 40, Abisag
                            > Austin, Tx.
                            >
                            > ----- Original Message -----
                            > From: Peter
                            > To: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com
                            > Sent: Saturday, October 30, 2010 8:07 AM
                            > Subject: CYOA - please be gentle ---
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > The upfit plan for the new roller furler took another couple turns this week.
                            > Converting the 5 year old genoa morphed into ordering a new genoa built, and various bits of accessory hardware were ordered, but I am walking blind through this whole thing, no prior experience, and getting occasional brief glimpses of the unexpected lying ahead....
                            > How do people who keep furlers deal with conditions that are sub-optimal, like winds too strong to fly the furling sail at a good point, where it becomes more a liability than asset? How about going to weather, is that seriously compromised by the furler section and sail aerodynamics being altered with the thick leading edge.
                            > See, I started out doing this upfit because I want less work on deck, some adjustability of sail area, and ease of storage and use.
                            > I love setting a headsail and working close to weather, but the back doesn't like sail changes, and I want to have easier single-handing.
                            > Now, thinking about what am I gonna do to deal with higher winds, and realizing my jib halyard is gonna be taken up by the furler, I start thinking how to add halyard, moveable inner fore stay and staysail, and other notions.
                            > If you have any sympathy, say some soothing words about how it was good the first time, and how it just gets better, not to worry....
                            > ~pete
                            >

                          • Daniel Grant
                            I have a removable inner forestay with running back stays on my 8.7. You need to tie/anchor the inner forestay connection on the deck to the forward
                            Message 13 of 23 , Nov 2, 2010
                            • 0 Attachment
                              I have a removable inner forestay with running back stays on my 8.7.  You need to tie/anchor the inner forestay connection on the deck to the forward bulkhead/anchor locker to prevent the inner forestay from pulling the deck up. I ran a piece of stainless angle iron all the way across the top of my anchor locker and attached it to the anchor locker we built in and tabbed on both sides all the way around. There is another piece of stainless ancle iron foreward of this and my Lafrans manual windlass bolts through the deck and these two angle irons. There were other changes and strengthening including sealed bulkheads forward to prevent sinking if holed in the bow. The running backs support the mast where the inner forestay connects to prevent the mast from breaking. There is a solient inner forestay that does not require runningwere other changes and strengthi backs because it attaches to the top of the mast just below the jib connection.
                              Dan
                               

                              To: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com
                              From: bill@...
                              Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2010 21:14:40 -0500
                              Subject: Re: CYOA - please be gentle ---



                              Peter,
                               
                              Currently, the adjustable forestay couples to hardware on the bow and is positioned about 8" aft of the furler drum. If both the furling jib and adjustable forestay jib are flown simutaniously, That 8" gap will not allow much air to flow between the luffs of either sail. Best performance will be to sail each one at a time. However, I do have an optional stainless plate with integral pad eyes that can be attached to the fore deck at about 3 feet aft of the furler. If I decide to put new screw holes and backing plate in my deck, I would then effectively turn the sloop rig into a cutter rig. BTW, my main is fully battened from mast to leech. I also have a geniker in a long sock arrangement that I need to figure out, mount and fly to see how it works.
                               
                              Bill Caz
                              C26MK2, Banshee
                              Passport 40, Abisag
                              Austin, TX.
                                
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: Peter
                              Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 8:49 PM
                              Subject: Re: CYOA - please be gentle ---

                               
                              Bill,
                              That's a great testimony. How is it rigged? Can you use the furler and the staysail at the same time in light air?
                              ~pete

                              --- In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Casnovsky" <bill@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Peter,
                              >
                              > My concerns about furlers have gone away now that I own a boat with a movable inner fore stay. Tried it out this week-end. The wind was blowing about 18 knots. Left the 130% furled jib rolled up. Hanked on a 100% working jib to the adjustable forestay and sailed well all afternoon with full main and 100. Also, going forward, should I run into a problem with the furler, the adjustable forestay gives me peace of mind as my backup.
                              >
                              > Bill Caz.
                              > C26MK2, Banshee
                              > Passport 40, Abisag
                              > Austin, Tx.
                              >
                              > ----- Original Message -----
                              > From: Peter
                              > To: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com
                              > Sent: Saturday, October 30, 2010 8:07 AM
                              > Subject: CYOA - please be gentle ---
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > The upfit plan for the new roller furler took another couple turns this week.
                              > Converting the 5 year old genoa morphed into ordering a new genoa built, and various bits of accessory hardware were ordered, but I am walking blind through this whole thing, no prior experience, and getting occasional brief glimpses of the unexpected lying ahead....
                              > How do people who keep furlers deal with conditions that are sub-optimal, like winds too strong to fly the furling sail at a good point, where it becomes more a liability than asset? How about going to weather, is that seriously compromised by the furler section and sail aerodynamics being altered with the thick leading edge.
                              > See, I started out doing this upfit because I want less work on deck, some adjustability of sail area, and ease of storage and use.
                              > I love setting a headsail and working close to weather, but the back doesn't like sail changes, and I want to have easier single-handing.
                              > Now, thinking about what am I gonna do to deal with higher winds, and realizing my jib halyard is gonna be taken up by the furler, I start thinking how to add halyard, moveable inner fore stay and staysail, and other notions.
                              > If you have any sympathy, say some soothing words about how it was good the first time, and how it just gets better, not to worry....
                              > ~pete
                              >




                            • Peter
                              Thanks, Bill. You have clarified that the existing is not for cutter rig, which I was wondering about. Daniel, in another post, points out mast load is
                              Message 14 of 23 , Nov 3, 2010
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Thanks, Bill. You have clarified that the existing is not for cutter rig, which I was wondering about.
                                Daniel, in another post, points out mast load is increased at point load where the added sail's rig is attached. This has to be avoided, allowed for by only using in light air, or counteracted by backstays for hard driving, which is how I read what Daniel did on his 8.7.
                                The gennaker in a sock you describe sounds like the sail Larry Wilson has, he calls a flasher, we used it on the Columbus Week cruise last month. Its a very useful sail, you'll like what it does for you in light air.
                                I'm mulling over using synthetic cord and sliding blocks for the inner stay. My boat already has a deck track fwd on center aft of the anchor locker; used for spinnaker pole down haul control, bolted down with backing plates. There may be a way to incorporate cross-functionality.
                                ~pete


                                --- In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Casnovsky" <bill@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Peter,
                                >
                                > Currently, the adjustable forestay couples to hardware on the bow and is positioned about 8" aft of the furler drum. If both the furling jib and adjustable forestay jib are flown simutaniously, That 8" gap will not allow much air to flow between the luffs of either sail. Best performance will be to sail each one at a time. However, I do have an optional stainless plate with integral pad eyes that can be attached to the fore deck at about 3 feet aft of the furler. If I decide to put new screw holes and backing plate in my deck, I would then effectively turn the sloop rig into a cutter rig. BTW, my main is fully battened from mast to leech. I also have a geniker in a long sock arrangement that I need to figure out, mount and fly to see how it works.
                                >
                                > Bill Caz
                                > C26MK2, Banshee
                                > Passport 40, Abisag
                                > Austin, TX.
                                >
                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                > From: Peter
                                > To: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com
                                > Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 8:49 PM
                                > Subject: Re: CYOA - please be gentle ---
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Bill,
                                > That's a great testimony. How is it rigged? Can you use the furler and the staysail at the same time in light air?
                                > ~pete
                                >
                                > --- In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Casnovsky" <bill@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > Peter,
                                > >
                                > > My concerns about furlers have gone away now that I own a boat with a movable inner fore stay. Tried it out this week-end. The wind was blowing about 18 knots. Left the 130% furled jib rolled up. Hanked on a 100% working jib to the adjustable forestay and sailed well all afternoon with full main and 100. Also, going forward, should I run into a problem with the furler, the adjustable forestay gives me peace of mind as my backup.
                                > >
                                > > Bill Caz.
                                > > C26MK2, Banshee
                                > > Passport 40, Abisag
                                > > Austin, Tx.
                                > >
                                > > ----- Original Message -----
                                > > From: Peter
                                > > To: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com
                                > > Sent: Saturday, October 30, 2010 8:07 AM
                                > > Subject: CYOA - please be gentle ---
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > The upfit plan for the new roller furler took another couple turns this week.
                                > > Converting the 5 year old genoa morphed into ordering a new genoa built, and various bits of accessory hardware were ordered, but I am walking blind through this whole thing, no prior experience, and getting occasional brief glimpses of the unexpected lying ahead....
                                > > How do people who keep furlers deal with conditions that are sub-optimal, like winds too strong to fly the furling sail at a good point, where it becomes more a liability than asset? How about going to weather, is that seriously compromised by the furler section and sail aerodynamics being altered with the thick leading edge.
                                > > See, I started out doing this upfit because I want less work on deck, some adjustability of sail area, and ease of storage and use.
                                > > I love setting a headsail and working close to weather, but the back doesn't like sail changes, and I want to have easier single-handing.
                                > > Now, thinking about what am I gonna do to deal with higher winds, and realizing my jib halyard is gonna be taken up by the furler, I start thinking how to add halyard, moveable inner fore stay and staysail, and other notions.
                                > > If you have any sympathy, say some soothing words about how it was good the first time, and how it just gets better, not to worry....
                                > > ~pete
                                > >
                                >
                              • Daniel Grant
                                Pete, It is not just back staye but running backs that are attached far back toward the stern on the toe rail when using a sail on the inner forestay. The
                                Message 15 of 23 , Nov 3, 2010
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Pete,
                                  It is not just back staye but running backs that are attached far back toward the stern on the toe rail when using a sail on the inner forestay. The attach to the mast at the height of the innerforestay. I fly a 46 sq foot storm jib on my inner forestay. even a small sail can buckle a mast. I would attach a cable or bracket to the under side of your deck track and anchor it to something solid like the anchor locker if it is well tabbed in. It will pull/lift/crack the deck over time if unsupported. in Light air a duster is also helpful.  My inner forestay setup is considered a cutter rig. Dan
                                   
                                  > To: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com
                                  > From: petemalone@...
                                  > Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 20:06:00 +0000
                                  > Subject: CYOA - Re: please be gentle ---
                                  >
                                  > Thanks, Bill. You have clarified that the existing is not for cutter rig, which I was wondering about.
                                  > Daniel, in another post, points out mast load is increased at point load where the added sail's rig is attached. This has to be avoided, allowed for by only using in light air, or counteracted by backstays for hard driving, which is how I read what Daniel did on his 8.7.
                                  > The gennaker in a sock you describe sounds like the sail Larry Wilson has, he calls a flasher, we used it on the Columbus Week cruise last month. Its a very useful sail, you'll like what it does for you in light air.
                                  > I'm mulling over using synthetic cord and sliding blocks for the inner stay. My boat already has a deck track fwd on center aft of the anchor locker; used for spinnaker pole down haul control, bolted down with backing plates. There may be a way to incorporate cross-functionality.
                                  > ~pete
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > --- In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Casnovsky" <bill@...> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > Peter,
                                  > >
                                  > > Currently, the adjustable forestay couples to hardware on the bow and is positioned about 8" aft of the furler drum. If both the furling jib and adjustable forestay jib are flown simutaniously, That 8" gap will not allow much air to flow between the luffs of either sail. Best performance will be to sail each one at a time. However, I do have an optional stainless plate with integral pad eyes that can be attached to the fore deck at about 3 feet aft of the furler. If I decide to put new screw holes and backing plate in my deck, I would then effectively turn the sloop rig into a cutter rig. BTW, my main is fully battened from mast to leech. I also have a geniker in a long sock arrangement that I need to figure out, mount and fly to see how it works.
                                  > >
                                  > > Bill Caz
                                  > > C26MK2, Banshee
                                  > > Passport 40, Abisag
                                  > > Austin, TX.
                                  > >
                                  > > ----- Original Message -----
                                  > > From: Peter
                                  > > To: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 8:49 PM
                                  > > Subject: Re: CYOA - please be gentle ---
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > Bill,
                                  > > That's a great testimony. How is it rigged? Can you use the furler and the staysail at the same time in light air?
                                  > > ~pete
                                  > >
                                  > > --- In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Casnovsky" <bill@> wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Peter,
                                  > > >
                                  > > > My concerns about furlers have gone away now that I own a boat with a movable inner fore stay. Tried it out this week-end. The wind was blowing about 18 knots. Left the 130% furled jib rolled up. Hanked on a 100% working jib to the adjustable forestay and sailed well all afternoon with full main and 100. Also, going forward, should I run into a problem with the furler, the adjustable forestay gives me peace of mind as my backup.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Bill Caz.
                                  > > > C26MK2, Banshee
                                  > > > Passport 40, Abisag
                                  > > > Austin, Tx.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                  > > > From: Peter
                                  > > > To: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > > Sent: Saturday, October 30, 2010 8:07 AM
                                  > > > Subject: CYOA - please be gentle ---
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > The upfit plan for the new roller furler took another couple turns this week.
                                  > > > Converting the 5 year old genoa morphed into ordering a new genoa built, and various bits of accessory hardware were ordered, but I am walking blind through this whole thing, no prior experience, and getting occasional brief glimpses of the unexpected lying ahead....
                                  > > > How do people who keep furlers deal with conditions that are sub-optimal, like winds too strong to fly the furling sail at a good point, where it becomes more a liability than asset? How about going to weather, is that seriously compromised by the furler section and sail aerodynamics being altered with the thick leading edge.
                                  > > > See, I started out doing this upfit because I want less work on deck, some adjustability of sail area, and ease of storage and use.
                                  > > > I love setting a headsail and working close to weather, but the back doesn't like sail changes, and I want to have easier single-handing.
                                  > > > Now, thinking about what am I gonna do to deal with higher winds, and realizing my jib halyard is gonna be taken up by the furler, I start thinking how to add halyard, moveable inner fore stay and staysail, and other notions.
                                  > > > If you have any sympathy, say some soothing words about how it was good the first time, and how it just gets better, not to worry....
                                  > > > ~pete
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > ------------------------------------
                                  >
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                                • Bill Casnovsky
                                  Pete & Dan, My inner fore stay is stowed on a second pad eye along side the shrouds when not in use. The stay reaches all the way to the top of the mast. No
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Nov 3, 2010
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Pete & Dan,
                                     
                                    My inner fore stay is stowed on a second pad eye along side the shrouds when not in use. The stay reaches all the way to the top of the mast. No runing backs. I have to be careful when setting it up. Otherwise it makes the back stay bar hard.
                                     
                                    Bill Caz.
                                     
                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 6:30 PM
                                    Subject: RE: CYOA - Re: please be gentle ---

                                     

                                    Pete,
                                    It is not just back staye but running backs that are attached far back toward the stern on the toe rail when using a sail on the inner forestay. The attach to the mast at the height of the innerforestay. I fly a 46 sq foot storm jib on my inner forestay. even a small sail can buckle a mast. I would attach a cable or bracket to the under side of your deck track and anchor it to something solid like the anchor locker if it is well tabbed in. It will pull/lift/crack the deck over time if unsupported. in Light air a duster is also helpful.  My inner forestay setup is considered a cutter rig. Dan
                                     
                                    > To: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com
                                    > From: petemalone@...
                                    > Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 20:06:00 +0000
                                    > Subject: CYOA - Re: please be gentle ---
                                    >
                                    > Thanks, Bill. You have clarified that the existing is not for cutter rig, which I was wondering about.
                                    > Daniel, in another post, points out mast load is increased at point load where the added sail's rig is attached. This has to be avoided, allowed for by only using in light air, or counteracted by backstays for hard driving, which is how I read what Daniel did on his 8.7.
                                    > The gennaker in a sock you describe sounds like the sail Larry Wilson has, he calls a flasher, we used it on the Columbus Week cruise last month. Its a very useful sail, you'll like what it does for you in light air.
                                    > I'm mulling over using synthetic cord and sliding blocks for the inner stay. My boat already has a deck track fwd on center aft of the anchor locker; used for spinnaker po! le down haul control, bolted down with backing plates. There may be a way to incorporate cross-functionality.
                                    > ~pete
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > --- In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Casnovsky" <bill@...> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > Peter,
                                    > >
                                    > > Currently, the adjustable forestay couples to hardware on the bow and is positioned about 8" aft of the furler drum. If both the furling jib and adjustable forestay jib are flown simutaniously, That 8" gap will not allow much air to flow between the luffs of either sail. Best performance will be to sail each one at a time. However, I do have an optional stainless plate with integral pad eyes that can be attached to the fore deck at about 3 feet aft of the furler. If I decide to put new screw holes and backing plate in my deck, I would then effectively turn the sloop rig into a cutter rig. BTW, my main is fully battened from mast to leech. I also have a geniker in a long sock arrange! ment that I need to figure out, mount and fly to see how it works.
                                    > >
                                    > > Bill Caz
                                    > > C26MK2, Banshee
                                    > > Passport 40, Abisag
                                    > > Austin, TX.
                                    > >
                                    > > ----- Original Message -----
                                    > > From: Peter
                                    > > To: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 8:49 PM
                                    > > Subject: Re: CYOA - please be gentle ---
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > Bill,
                                    > > That's a great testimony. How is it rigged? Can you use the furler and the staysail at the same time in light air?
                                    > > ~pete
                                    > >
                                    > > --- In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Casnovsky" <bill@> wrote:
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Peter,
                                    > > >
                                    > > > My concerns about furlers have gone away now that I own a boat with a movable inner fore stay. Tried it out this week-end. The wind was blowing about 18 knots. Left the 130% furled jib rolled up. Hanked on a 100% working ji! b to the adjustable forestay and sailed well all afternoon with full main and 100. Also, going forward, should I run into a problem with the furler, the adjustable forestay gives me peace of mind as my backup.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Bill Caz.
                                    > > > C26MK2, Banshee
                                    > > > Passport 40, Abisag
                                    > > > Austin, Tx.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                    > > > From: Peter
                                    > > > To: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > > Sent: Saturday, October 30, 2010 8:07 AM
                                    > > > Subject: CYOA - please be gentle ---
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > The upfit plan for the new roller furler took another couple turns this week.
                                    > > > Converting the 5 year old genoa morphed into ordering a new genoa built, and various bits of accessory hardware were ordered, but I am walking blind through this whole thing, no prior e! xperience, and getting occasional brief glimpses of the unexpected lying ahead....
                                    > > > How do people who keep furlers deal with conditions that are sub-optimal, like winds too strong to fly the furling sail at a good point, where it becomes more a liability than asset? How about going to weather, is that seriously compromised by the furler section and sail aerodynamics being altered with the thick leading edge.
                                    > > > See, I started out doing this upfit because I want less work on deck, some adjustability of sail area, and ease of storage and use.
                                    > > > I love setting a headsail and working close to weather, but the back doesn't like sail changes, and I want to have easier single-handing.
                                    > > > Now, thinking about what am I gonna do to deal with higher winds, and realizing my jib halyard is gonna be taken up by the furler, I start thinking how to add halyard, moveable inner fore stay and staysail, and other notions.
                                    > > > If you have any sympathy, say some soothing words about how i! t was good the first time, and how it just gets better, not to worry....
                                    > > > ~pete
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ------------------------------------
                                    >
                                    > Columbia Yacht Owners Association Website:
                                    > http://www.columbia-yachts.com/
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                                  • Daniel Grant
                                    Bill, Mine stows like yours when not in use. But when in place it does offer some mast support. You actually have a solient (sp) Stay. The are used more in
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Nov 4, 2010
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                                      Bill,
                                      Mine stows like yours when not in use. But when in place it does offer some mast support. You actually have a solient  (sp) Stay. The are used more in Europe and as you said attach to the top of the mast and do not require Running back stays. Dan
                                       

                                      To: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com
                                      From: bill@...
                                      Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 18:40:19 -0500
                                      Subject: Re: CYOA - Re: please be gentle ---



                                      Pete & Dan,
                                       
                                      My inner fore stay is stowed on a second pad eye along side the shrouds when not in use. The stay reaches all the way to the top of the mast. No runing backs. I have to be careful when setting it up. Otherwise it makes the back stay bar hard.
                                       
                                      Bill Caz.
                                       
                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 6:30 PM
                                      Subject: RE: CYOA - Re: please be gentle ---

                                       
                                      Pete,
                                      It is not just back staye but running backs that are attached far back toward the stern on the toe rail when using a sail on the inner forestay. The attach to the mast at the height of the innerforestay. I fly a 46 sq foot storm jib on my inner forestay. even a small sail can buckle a mast. I would attach a cable or bracket to the under side of your deck track and anchor it to something solid like the anchor locker if it is well tabbed in. It will pull/lift/crack the deck over time if unsupported. in Light air a duster is also helpful.  My inner forestay setup is considered a cutter rig. Dan
                                       
                                      > To: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com
                                      > From: petemalone@...
                                      > Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 20:06:00 +0000
                                      > Subject: CYOA - Re: please be gentle ---
                                      >
                                      > Thanks, Bill. You have clarified that the existing is not for cutter rig, which I was wondering about.
                                      > Daniel, in another post, points out mast load is increased at point load where the added sail's rig is attached. This has to be avoided, allowed for by only using in light air, or counteracted by backstays for hard driving, which is how I read what Daniel did on his 8.7.
                                      > The gennaker in a sock you describe sounds like the sail Larry Wilson has, he calls a flasher, we used it on the Columbus Week cruise last month. Its a very useful sail, you'll like what it does for you in light air.
                                      > I'm mulling over using synthetic cord and sliding blocks for the inner stay. My boat already has a deck track fwd on center aft of the anchor locker; used for spinnaker po! le down haul control, bolted down with backing plates. There may be a way to incorporate cross-functionality.
                                      > ~pete
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > --- In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Casnovsky" <bill@...> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > Peter,
                                      > >
                                      > > Currently, the adjustable forestay couples to hardware on the bow and is positioned about 8" aft of the furler drum. If both the furling jib and adjustable forestay jib are flown simutaniously, That 8" gap will not allow much air to flow between the luffs of either sail. Best performance will be to sail each one at a time. However, I do have an optional stainless plate with integral pad eyes that can be attached to the fore deck at about 3 feet aft of the furler. If I decide to put new screw holes and backing plate in my deck, I would then effectively turn the sloop rig into a cutter rig. BTW, my main is fully battened from mast to leech. I also have a geniker in a long sock arrange! ment that I need to figure out, mount and fly to see how it works.
                                      > >
                                      > > Bill Caz
                                      > > C26MK2, Banshee
                                      > > Passport 40, Abisag
                                      > > Austin, TX.
                                      > >
                                      > > ----- Original Message -----
                                      > > From: Peter
                                      > > To: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com
                                      > > Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 8:49 PM
                                      > > Subject: Re: CYOA - please be gentle ---
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > Bill,
                                      > > That's a great testimony. How is it rigged? Can you use the furler and the staysail at the same time in light air?
                                      > > ~pete
                                      > >
                                      > > --- In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Casnovsky" <bill@> wrote:
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Peter,
                                      > > >
                                      > > > My concerns about furlers have gone away now that I own a boat with a movable inner fore stay. Tried it out this week-end. The wind was blowing about 18 knots. Left the 130% furled jib rolled up. Hanked on a 100% working ji! b to the adjustable forestay and sailed well all afternoon with full main and 100. Also, going forward, should I run into a problem with the furler, the adjustable forestay gives me peace of mind as my backup.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Bill Caz.
                                      > > > C26MK2, Banshee
                                      > > > Passport 40, Abisag
                                      > > > Austin, Tx.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                      > > > From: Peter
                                      > > > To: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com
                                      > > > Sent: Saturday, October 30, 2010 8:07 AM
                                      > > > Subject: CYOA - please be gentle ---
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > The upfit plan for the new roller furler took another couple turns this week.
                                      > > > Converting the 5 year old genoa morphed into ordering a new genoa built, and various bits of accessory hardware were ordered, but I am walking blind through this whole thing, no prior e! xperience, and getting occasional brief glimpses of the unexpected lying ahead....
                                      > > > How do people who keep furlers deal with conditions that are sub-optimal, like winds too strong to fly the furling sail at a good point, where it becomes more a liability than asset? How about going to weather, is that seriously compromised by the furler section and sail aerodynamics being altered with the thick leading edge.
                                      > > > See, I started out doing this upfit because I want less work on deck, some adjustability of sail area, and ease of storage and use.
                                      > > > I love setting a headsail and working close to weather, but the back doesn't like sail changes, and I want to have easier single-handing.
                                      > > > Now, thinking about what am I gonna do to deal with higher winds, and realizing my jib halyard is gonna be taken up by the furler, I start thinking how to add halyard, moveable inner fore stay and staysail, and other notions.
                                      > > > If you have any sympathy, say some soothing words about how i! t was good the first time, and how it just gets better, not to worry....
                                      > > > ~pete
                                      > > >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > ------------------------------------
                                      >
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                                    • Peter
                                      Are running backstays adjusted so the windward side is load carrying, and the leeward side is released so the mainsail boom can let out to leeward? So one has
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Nov 4, 2010
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                                        Are running backstays adjusted so the windward side is load carrying, and the leeward side is released so the mainsail boom can let out to leeward? So one has to changed the setting on a tack? Thinking this makes the cockpit a busy place....? ~pete



                                        --- In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Grant <danielgrant@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Pete,
                                        > It is not just back staye but running backs that are attached far back toward the stern on the toe rail when using a sail on the inner forestay. The attach to the mast at the height of the innerforestay. I fly a 46 sq foot storm jib on my inner forestay. even a small sail can buckle a mast. I would attach a cable or bracket to the under side of your deck track and anchor it to something solid like the anchor locker if it is well tabbed in. It will pull/lift/crack the deck over time if unsupported. in Light air a duster is also helpful. My inner forestay setup is considered a cutter rig. Dan
                                        >
                                        > > To: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com
                                        > > From: petemalone@...
                                        > > Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 20:06:00 +0000
                                        > > Subject: CYOA - Re: please be gentle ---
                                        > >
                                        > > Thanks, Bill. You have clarified that the existing is not for cutter rig, which I was wondering about.
                                        > > Daniel, in another post, points out mast load is increased at point load where the added sail's rig is attached. This has to be avoided, allowed for by only using in light air, or counteracted by backstays for hard driving, which is how I read what Daniel did on his 8.7.
                                        > > The gennaker in a sock you describe sounds like the sail Larry Wilson has, he calls a flasher, we used it on the Columbus Week cruise last month. Its a very useful sail, you'll like what it does for you in light air.
                                        > > I'm mulling over using synthetic cord and sliding blocks for the inner stay. My boat already has a deck track fwd on center aft of the anchor locker; used for spinnaker pole down haul control, bolted down with backing plates. There may be a way to incorporate cross-functionality.
                                        > > ~pete
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > --- In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Casnovsky" <bill@> wrote:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Peter,
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Currently, the adjustable forestay couples to hardware on the bow and is positioned about 8" aft of the furler drum. If both the furling jib and adjustable forestay jib are flown simutaniously, That 8" gap will not allow much air to flow between the luffs of either sail. Best performance will be to sail each one at a time. However, I do have an optional stainless plate with integral pad eyes that can be attached to the fore deck at about 3 feet aft of the furler. If I decide to put new screw holes and backing plate in my deck, I would then effectively turn the sloop rig into a cutter rig. BTW, my main is fully battened from mast to leech. I also have a geniker in a long sock arrangement that I need to figure out, mount and fly to see how it works.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Bill Caz
                                        > > > C26MK2, Banshee
                                        > > > Passport 40, Abisag
                                        > > > Austin, TX.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                        > > > From: Peter
                                        > > > To: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com
                                        > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 8:49 PM
                                        > > > Subject: Re: CYOA - please be gentle ---
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Bill,
                                        > > > That's a great testimony. How is it rigged? Can you use the furler and the staysail at the same time in light air?
                                        > > > ~pete
                                        > > >
                                        > > > --- In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Casnovsky" <bill@> wrote:
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Peter,
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > My concerns about furlers have gone away now that I own a boat with a movable inner fore stay. Tried it out this week-end. The wind was blowing about 18 knots. Left the 130% furled jib rolled up. Hanked on a 100% working jib to the adjustable forestay and sailed well all afternoon with full main and 100. Also, going forward, should I run into a problem with the furler, the adjustable forestay gives me peace of mind as my backup.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Bill Caz.
                                        > > > > C26MK2, Banshee
                                        > > > > Passport 40, Abisag
                                        > > > > Austin, Tx.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                        > > > > From: Peter
                                        > > > > To: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com
                                        > > > > Sent: Saturday, October 30, 2010 8:07 AM
                                        > > > > Subject: CYOA - please be gentle ---
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > The upfit plan for the new roller furler took another couple turns this week.
                                        > > > > Converting the 5 year old genoa morphed into ordering a new genoa built, and various bits of accessory hardware were ordered, but I am walking blind through this whole thing, no prior experience, and getting occasional brief glimpses of the unexpected lying ahead....
                                        > > > > How do people who keep furlers deal with conditions that are sub-optimal, like winds too strong to fly the furling sail at a good point, where it becomes more a liability than asset? How about going to weather, is that seriously compromised by the furler section and sail aerodynamics being altered with the thick leading edge.
                                        > > > > See, I started out doing this upfit because I want less work on deck, some adjustability of sail area, and ease of storage and use.
                                        > > > > I love setting a headsail and working close to weather, but the back doesn't like sail changes, and I want to have easier single-handing.
                                        > > > > Now, thinking about what am I gonna do to deal with higher winds, and realizing my jib halyard is gonna be taken up by the furler, I start thinking how to add halyard, moveable inner fore stay and staysail, and other notions.
                                        > > > > If you have any sympathy, say some soothing words about how it was good the first time, and how it just gets better, not to worry....
                                        > > > > ~pete
                                        > > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > ------------------------------------
                                        > >
                                        > > Columbia Yacht Owners Association Website:
                                        > > http://www.columbia-yachts.com/
                                        > >
                                        > > Home:
                                        > > http://www.egroups.com/group/columbiasailingyachts/
                                        > >
                                        > > To Post a message, send it to: columbiasailingyachts@...
                                        > >
                                        > > To Subscribe, send a message to: columbiasailingyachts-subscribe@...
                                        > >
                                        > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: columbiasailingyachts-unsubscribe@...! Groups Links
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        >
                                      • Daniel Grant
                                        Both Running Backs are used simultaneously. If I am using a 46 sq foot sail I would be in my 3rd reeing point on the main or no main. If I were flying my 130
                                        Message 19 of 23 , Nov 4, 2010
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                                          Both Running Backs are used simultaneously. If I am using a 46 sq foot sail I would be in my 3rd reeing point on the main or no main. If I were flying  my 130 genoa and the 46sq foot sail for extra push The main would be full and the running backs might betight but attached to the toe rail about where the wenches are which would allow the boom to swing fairly wide. DAn
                                           
                                          > To: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com
                                          > From: petemalone@...
                                          > Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 09:28:24 +0000
                                          > Subject: CYOA - Re: please be gentle ---
                                          >
                                          > Are running backstays adjusted so the windward side is load carrying, and the leeward side is released so the mainsail boom can let out to leeward? So one has to changed the setting on a tack? Thinking this makes the cockpit a busy place....? ~pete
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > --- In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Grant <danielgrant@...> wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > Pete,
                                          > > It is not just back staye but running backs that are attached far back toward the stern on the toe rail when using a sail on the inner forestay. The attach to the mast at the height of the innerforestay. I fly a 46 sq foot storm jib on my inner forestay. even a small sail can buckle a mast. I would attach a cable or bracket to the under side of your deck track and anchor it to something solid like the anchor locker if it is well tabbed in. It will pull/lift/crack the deck over time if unsupported. in Light air a duster is also helpful. My inner forestay setup is considered a cutter rig. Dan
                                          > >
                                          > > > To: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com
                                          > > > From: petemalone@...
                                          > > > Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 20:06:00 +0000
                                          > > > Subject: CYOA - Re: please be gentle ---
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Thanks, Bill. You have clarified that the existing is not for cutter rig, which I was wondering about.
                                          > > > Daniel, in another post, points out mast load is increased at point load where the added sail's rig is attached. This has to be avoided, allowed for by only using in light air, or counteracted by backstays for hard driving, which is how I read what Daniel did on his 8.7.
                                          > > > The gennaker in a sock you describe sounds like the sail Larry Wilson has, he calls a flasher, we used it on the Columbus Week cruise last month. Its a very useful sail, you'll like what it does for you in light air.
                                          > > > I'm mulling over using synthetic cord and sliding blocks for the inner stay. My boat already has a deck track fwd on center aft of the anchor locker; used for spinnaker pole down haul control, bolted down with backing plates. There may be a way to incorporate cross-functionality.
                                          > > > ~pete
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > > --- In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Casnovsky" <bill@> wrote:
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Peter,
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Currently, the adjustable forestay couples to hardware on the bow and is positioned about 8" aft of the furler drum. If both the furling jib and adjustable forestay jib are flown simutaniously, That 8" gap will not allow much air to flow between the luffs of either sail. Best performance will be to sail each one at a time. However, I do have an optional stainless plate with integral pad eyes that can be attached to the fore deck at about 3 feet aft of the furler. If I decide to put new screw holes and backing plate in my deck, I would then effectively turn the sloop rig into a cutter rig. BTW, my main is fully battened from mast to leech. I also have a geniker in a long sock arrangement that I need to figure out, mount and fly to see how it works.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Bill Caz
                                          > > > > C26MK2, Banshee
                                          > > > > Passport 40, Abisag
                                          > > > > Austin, TX.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                          > > > > From: Peter
                                          > > > > To: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com
                                          > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 8:49 PM
                                          > > > > Subject: Re: CYOA - please be gentle ---
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Bill,
                                          > > > > That's a great testimony. How is it rigged? Can you use the furler and the staysail at the same time in light air?
                                          > > > > ~pete
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > --- In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Casnovsky" <bill@> wrote:
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > Peter,
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > My concerns about furlers have gone away now that I own a boat with a movable inner fore stay. Tried it out this week-end. The wind was blowing about 18 knots. Left the 130% furled jib rolled up. Hanked on a 100% working jib to the adjustable forestay and sailed well all afternoon with full main and 100. Also, going forward, should I run into a problem with the furler, the adjustable forestay gives me peace of mind as my backup.
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > Bill Caz.
                                          > > > > > C26MK2, Banshee
                                          > > > > > Passport 40, Abisag
                                          > > > > > Austin, Tx.
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                          > > > > > From: Peter
                                          > > > > > To: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com
                                          > > > > > Sent: Saturday, October 30, 2010 8:07 AM
                                          > > > > > Subject: CYOA - please be gentle ---
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > The upfit plan for the new roller furler took another couple turns this week.
                                          > > > > > Converting the 5 year old genoa morphed into ordering a new genoa built, and various bits of accessory hardware were ordered, but I am walking blind through this whole thing, no prior experience, and getting occasional brief glimpses of the unexpected lying ahead....
                                          > > > > > How do people who keep furlers deal with conditions that are sub-optimal, like winds too strong to fly the furling sail at a good point, where it becomes more a liability than asset? How about going to weather, is that seriously compromised by the furler section and sail aerodynamics being altered with the thick leading edge.
                                          > > > > > See, I started out doing this upfit because I want less work on deck, some adjustability of sail area, and ease of storage and use.
                                          > > > > > I love setting a headsail and working close to weather, but the back doesn't like sail changes, and I want to have easier single-handing.
                                          > > > > > Now, thinking about what am I gonna do to deal with higher winds, and realizing my jib halyard is gonna be taken up by the furler, I start thinking how to add halyard, moveable inner fore stay and staysail, and other notions.
                                          > > > > > If you have any sympathy, say some soothing words about how it was good the first time, and how it just gets better, not to worry....
                                          > > > > > ~pete
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > > ------------------------------------
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Columbia Yacht Owners Association Website:
                                          > > > http://www.columbia-yachts.com/
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Home:
                                          > > > http://www.egroups.com/group/columbiasailingyachts/
                                          > > >
                                          > > > To Post a message, send it to: columbiasailingyachts@...
                                          > > >
                                          > > > To Subscribe, send a message to: columbiasailingyachts-subscribe@...
                                          > > >
                                          > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: columbiasailingyachts-unsubscribe@...! Groups Links
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > ------------------------------------
                                          >
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                                          > http://www.columbia-yachts.com/
                                          >
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                                        • nick greenaway
                                          dan...you have wenches aboard?! lucky man! nick ... From: Daniel Grant Subject: RE: CYOA - Re: please be gentle --- To:
                                          Message 20 of 23 , Nov 4, 2010
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                                            dan...you have wenches aboard?! lucky man!

                                            nick




                                            --- On Thu, 11/4/10, Daniel Grant <danielgrant@...> wrote:


                                            From: Daniel Grant <danielgrant@...>
                                            Subject: RE: CYOA - Re: please be gentle ---
                                            To: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com
                                            Date: Thursday, November 4, 2010, 10:29 AM


                                             



                                            Both Running Backs are used simultaneously. If I am using a 46 sq foot sail I would be in my 3rd reeing point on the main or no main. If I were flying  my 130 genoa and the 46sq foot sail for extra push The main would be full and the running backs might betight but attached to the toe rail about where the wenches are which would allow the boom to swing fairly wide. DAn
                                             
                                          • Harry James
                                            They were pretty common in the old days--as in my youth. Boats were usually fractional rigs and the running backstays would go from the point on the mast where
                                            Message 21 of 23 , Nov 4, 2010
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                                              They were pretty common in the old days--as in my youth. Boats were usually fractional rigs and the running backstays would go from the point on the mast where the forestay joined down and then to the deck a fairlead and back to  something called a Highfield Lever. They were in bronze and had quite a bit of travel. When you tacked you released the jib and the windward lever and then brought in the new windward lever and sheeted in the jib. The levers were easy to use.

                                              Here is one model    http://tinyurl.com/25oajyo

                                              HJ

                                              On 11/4/2010 12:28 AM, Peter wrote:
                                              Are running backstays adjusted so the windward side is load carrying, and the leeward side is released so the mainsail boom can let out to leeward? So one has to changed the setting on a tack? Thinking this makes the cockpit a busy place....? ~pete
                                              
                                               
                                              
                                              --- In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Grant <danielgrant@...> wrote:
                                              
                                              
                                              Pete,
                                              It is not just back staye but running backs that are attached far back toward the stern on the toe rail when using a sail on the inner forestay. The attach to the mast at the height of the innerforestay. I fly a 46 sq foot storm jib on my inner forestay. even a small sail can buckle a mast. I would attach a cable or bracket to the under side of your deck track and anchor it to something solid like the anchor locker if it is well tabbed in. It will pull/lift/crack the deck over time if unsupported. in Light air a duster is also helpful.  My inner forestay setup is considered a cutter rig. Dan
                                               
                                              

                                            • Peter
                                              Harry thats an all round interesting source at the link you provided, thanks. I m sure others on the list have found it interesting, too. When I have time, I
                                              Message 22 of 23 , Nov 5, 2010
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                                                Harry thats an all round interesting source at the link you provided, thanks. I'm sure others on the list have found it interesting, too.
                                                When I have time, I want to look for examples of rigs with running backstays. gotta get on the road this am ~ pete

                                                --- In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > They were pretty common in the old days--as in my youth. Boats were
                                                > usually fractional rigs and the running backstays would go from the
                                                > point on the mast where the forestay joined down and then to the deck a
                                                > fairlead and back to something called a Highfield Lever. They were in
                                                > bronze and had quite a bit of travel. When you tacked you released the
                                                > jib and the windward lever and then brought in the new windward lever
                                                > and sheeted in the jib. The levers were easy to use.
                                                >
                                                > Here is one model *http://tinyurl.com/25oajyo*
                                                >
                                                > HJ
                                                >
                                                > On 11/4/2010 12:28 AM, Peter wrote:
                                                > > Are running backstays adjusted so the windward side is load carrying, and the leeward side is released so the mainsail boom can let out to leeward? So one has to changed the setting on a tack? Thinking this makes the cockpit a busy place....? ~pete
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > > --- In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Grant<danielgrant@> wrote:
                                                > >>
                                                > >> Pete,
                                                > >> It is not just back staye but running backs that are attached far back toward the stern on the toe rail when using a sail on the inner forestay. The attach to the mast at the height of the innerforestay. I fly a 46 sq foot storm jib on my inner forestay. even a small sail can buckle a mast. I would attach a cable or bracket to the under side of your deck track and anchor it to something solid like the anchor locker if it is well tabbed in. It will pull/lift/crack the deck over time if unsupported. in Light air a duster is also helpful. My inner forestay setup is considered a cutter rig. Dan
                                                > >>
                                                > >
                                                >
                                              • Andie
                                                On my Dragon race boat we used to switch the running backs with ever tack when sailing downwind. It was a pain in the ass. That is what some old timers I
                                                Message 23 of 23 , Nov 7, 2010
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                                                  On my Dragon race boat we used to switch the running backs with ever tack when sailing downwind. It was a pain in the ass.
                                                  That is what some old timers I sailed with said to do anyway.
                                                  Andy
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