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Re: Your verdict, Gentle Columbians

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  • Pete Malone
    Jim, That explains it quite well. The symptom is not as bad as the cure. Could you live aboard (on the hard) in a yard in Sausalito, while you fix her up to
    Message 1 of 35 , Feb 2, 2009
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      Jim,
      That explains it quite well.
      The symptom is not as bad as the cure.
      Could you live aboard (on the hard) in a yard in Sausalito, while you
      fix her up to make the passage home? This assumes you plan to keep
      her in "Pugetopolis". ??
      ~ pete


      --- In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com, Jim Muri <irumrj@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > Hello, Pete and Larry.
      >
      > To answer the question about how one measures that 'out of plumb'
      situation, here's how I did it:  I hung the boat, one strap forward
      of the lead slug, one strap aft.  The lead slug was 3/8" out of plumb
      to starboard, measured against the deadwood to its rear.  The back of
      the slug showed that growth had been periodically scraped off, from
      its movement from side to side as it scraped against the aft
      deadwood - - not wood, actually, but you get the drift.
      >
      > Since the vessel was hung in the straps only slightly out of the
      vertical, it would be logical to assume that the 3/8" could be more,
      given more heel.  That slight 3/8" could have been just a clue to a
      bigger issue.
      >
      > If you were planning on passage making, would you also be concerned
      about a mobile lead slug?  Would you buy a boat, knowing that the
      lead ballast needed dropping and re-attaching?  Or would you either
      shop elsewhere or hope the owner discounted the vessel enough to pay
      for that and the rudder work? 
      >
      > I guess I'm a bit of a nit-picker by nature.  Don't worry, you
      haven't insulted me.  I've been called that by experts <G> and in
      fact have sort of made my living by being that way.  It's a hard
      habit to break.
      >
      > I don't think this story is over, even though I have withdrawn my
      offer.  We'll see.  The owner has three boats and wants to get rid of
      this one.
      >
      > And the rest of you on this list - you've given me some great ideas
      and thoughts on this and other related matters, and you can expect
      regular updates as this situation proceeds.
      >
      >  
      >  James R. Muri
      >
      > Novelist, Sailor
      > BUY: My e-Novels at http://blizzardguy.com/venture/
      > SITE: http://blizzardguy.com
      > BLOG: http://theostrichkiller.blogspot.com
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ________________________________
      > From: Pete Malone <petemalone@...>
      > To: columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Sunday, February 1, 2009 6:08:09 AM
      > Subject: CYOA - Re: Your verdict, Gentle Columbians
      >
      >
      > My question echoes Larry's - exactly how does one take a specific
      > measurement indicating 3/8" per side lateral offset on heel?
      > BTW, these deficiencies represent onerous repair jobs, but nothing
      > outside the range of a fellow like yourself, Jim.
      > Go ahead, it will work out fine....and its good for the economy....
      > ~pete
      >
      > --- In columbiasailingyach ts@yahoogroups. com, "Larry Wilson"
      > <radicalcy@ ..> wrote:
      > >
      > > So how does one measure the plumb when under way? I wouldn't be
      > > surprised though if that bit of movement is much more than hull
      flex
      > > due to the weight of the keel itself.
      > > If it's truly loose, then removal, filling the attachment holes
      and
      > > redrilling, then rebedding would seem to take care of the problem.
      > (My
      > > humble opinion)
      > > Cutless bearing isn't that big a deal. Replace it.
      > > If the rudder isn't totally shot, split it open, clean out the
      foam,
      > > and re build it. Again, not that big a deal. Same with the gudgeon
      > > assembly. \\
      > > There were only what, 11 of the ll.7's built? Go for it...I've
      > drooled
      > > over that boat for 5 years.
      > > Larry Wilson
      > >
      > > --- In columbiasailingyach ts@yahoogroups. com, Jim Muri <irumrj@>
      > > wrote:
      > > >
      > > > I'm looking at an 11.8.� Aside from the 'usual' stuff you'd
      > expect
      > > to find on a 30-year old boat,�the survey also unearthed the
      > following:
      > > >
      > > > 1.��The 11000 pound lead slug used in its shoal draft keel
      > has about
      > > 3/4 of an inch of play at the bottom - that is, on one tack it is
      > > about 3/8 inch out of plumb one way, on the opposite tack it's the
      > > same out of plumb the other way.� In short, it's working back
      and
      > > forth.� Are we at risk here of the keel bolts being exposed to
      sea
      > > water?� Or the keel simply falling off?
      > > > 2.� The cutless bearing has significant endplay - the prop
      > shaft can
      > > move�sideways about a quarter inch in all directions.
      > > > 3.� The rudder has split open vertically down�its leading
      > edge.
      > > > 4.� The single gudgeon hardware appears to have suffered a
      > pretty
      > > severe blow one time or another, because its coating of epoxy�/
      > > gelcoat has flaked off in chunks, exposing it to the salt
      water.�
      > We
      > > didn't notice any looseness of the skeg.
      > > >
      > > > The owner, who's trying to unload this otherwise passable vessel
      > > onto me, has already incurred significant expense bringing the
      other
      > > vessel systems up to my�pragmatic (if it works, it's good)
      > standards.�
      > > By Monday the�surveyor and yard will have a better idea what it
      > will
      > > take (in terms of $$$) to fix the items I mentioned.
      > > >
      > > > For that matter, so have I.� Two trips to Sausalito from
      > Seattle,
      > > surveyor fees, yard fees, hotel bills, etc.
      > > >
      > > > Your verdict solicited:� is it time to stop throwing good
      money
      > at
      > > this boat?��
      > > > �James R. Muri
      > > >
      > > > Novelist, Sailor
      > > > BUY: My e-Novels at http://blizzardguy. com/venture/
      > > > SITE: http://blizzardguy. com
      > > > BLOG: http://theostrichki ller.blogspot. com
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • deckerohana@yahoo.com
      Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T ... From: Paul Esterle Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2009 11:42:13 To: Subject:
      Message 35 of 35 , Feb 8, 2009
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        Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Paul Esterle <pesterle@...>

        Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2009 11:42:13
        To: <columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com>
        Subject: Re: DIY-Boat Owner. Was: CYOA - Your verdict, Gentle Columbians


        Ernst,

        I feel for you. I don't get a copy of the issue with my articles in
        them, I have to buy them. I tried the online subscription site and
        eventually gave up. Now I just buy my copy from my buddies at the local
        WM...

        Paul Esterle
        Freelance Boating Writer
        Columbia 10.7, 26 & Matilda 20
        North East, MD.
        “Capt’n Pauley’s Boat Repairs & Upgrades”
        book at www.captnpauley.com
        home.comcast.net/~pesterle/



        niebur32 wrote:
        >
        > Paul
        >
        > I can't wait to see your article. I just ordered an electronic copy of
        > DIY-Boat Owner but, boy, do they have a complicated subscription
        > structure! With online subscription, print subscription, CD
        > collections, single-issue, multi-issue. Then there is backorder,
        > forward-order, side-order and who-knows-what-order.
        >
        > I _believe_ I now ordered a one year subscription including the issue
        > with your article but I must confess I am not really sure. Also,
        > confusingly, I ordered the online subscription, paid online of course,
        > but it seems now I have to wait for something to be delivered by the
        > USPS??? I expected to get sent some access code by email but it seems
        > I was wrong and they send one by snail mail?? We'll see.
        >
        > I hope this all works out and I will eventually see your article. I
        > always enjoy your descriptions, very nice and clear.
        >
        > --Ernst
        >
        > --- In columbiasailingyachts@yahoogroups.com
        > <mailto:columbiasailingyachts%40yahoogroups.com>, Paul Esterle
        > <pesterle@...> wrote:
        > >
        > > See the Last issue of DIY-Boat Owner for my article on rebuilding a
        > 10.7
        > > rudder...
        > >
        > > Paul Esterle
        > > Freelance Boating Writer
        > > Columbia 10.7, 26 & Matilda 20
        > > North East, MD.
        > > "Capt'n Pauley's Boat Repairs & Upgrades"
        > > book at www.captnpauley.com
        > > home.comcast.net/~pesterle/
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Kbjmjrb@... wrote:
        > > >
        > > > James,
        > > > If the ballast is really shifting, that is an intolerable condition.
        > > > Drilling holes and injecting epoxy resin is a possible fix. The split
        > > > rudder
        > > > needs to be repaired. The most common cause is water intrusion
        > through
        > > > cracks. The
        > > > cracks can come from collision, poor workmanship, or freezing
        > while on
        > > > the
        > > > hard. This can cause expanding corrosion on the inner metal framework
        > > > which then
        > > > splits the GRP cover. Another cause can be a lighting strike. In any
        > > > cast,
        > > > the GRP covering needs to be removed in places to inspect the inner
        > > > skeleton and
        > > > insure that it has not been substantially weakened. Do not be too shy
        > > > about
        > > > cutting into the GRP to inspect. A die grinder with the proper bits
        > > > makes this
        > > > quick work and replacing small areas of GRP with new cloth and epoxy
        > > > resin is
        > > > easy. The hard part with both the keel and the rudder may be drying
        > > > things out
        > > > enough to fix.
        > > >
        > > > Bruce K
        > > > Challenger # 74, "Ouroboros"
        > > > Los Lunas, NM >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > I'm looking at an 11.8. Aside from the 'usual' stuff you'd
        > expect to
        > > > find
        > > > > on a 30-year old boat, the survey also unearthed the following:
        > > > >
        > > > > 1. The 11000 pound lead slug used in its shoal draft keel has about
        > > > 3/4 of
        > > > > an inch of play at the bottom - that is, on one tack it is about
        > 3/8
        > > > inch out
        > > > > of plumb one way, on the opposite tack it's the same out of plumb
        > > > the other
        > > > > way. In short, it's working back and forth. Are we at risk here of
        > > > the keel
        > > > > bolts being exposed to sea water? Or the keel simply falling off?
        > > > > 2. The cutless bearing has significant endplay - the prop shaft can
        > > > move
        > > > > sideways about a quarter inch in all directions.
        > > > > 3. The rudder has split open vertically down its leading edge.
        > > > > 4. The single gudgeon hardware appears to have suffered a pretty
        > severe
        > > > > blow one time or another, because its coating of epoxy / gelcoat
        > has
        > > > flaked off
        > > > > in chunks, exposing it to the salt water. We didn't notice any
        > > > looseness of
        > > > > the skeg.
        > > > >
        > > > > The owner, who's trying to unload this otherwise passable vessel
        > > > onto me,
        > > > > has already incurred significant expense bringing the other vessel
        > > > systems up
        > > > > to my pragmatic (if it works, it's good) standards. By Monday the
        > > > surveyor
        > > > > and yard will have a better idea what it will take (in terms of
        > $$$)
        > > > to fix the
        > > > > items I mentioned.
        > > > >
        > > > > For that matter, so have I. Two trips to Sausalito from Seattle,
        > > > surveyor
        > > > > fees, yard fees, hotel bills, etc.
        > > > >
        > > > > Your verdict solicited: is it time to stop throwing good money
        > at this
        > > > > boat?
        > > > > James R. Muri
        > > > >
        > > > > Novelist, Sailor
        > > > > BUY: My e-Novels at http://blizzardguy.com/venture/
        > <http://blizzardguy.com/venture/>
        > > > <http://blizzardguy.com/venture/ <http://blizzardguy.com/venture/>>
        > > > > SITE: http://blizzardguy.com <http://blizzardguy.com>
        > <http://blizzardguy.com <http://blizzardguy.com>>
        > > > > BLOG: http://theostrichkiller.blogspot.com
        > <http://theostrichkiller.blogspot.com>
        > > > <http://theostrichkiller.blogspot.com
        > <http://theostrichkiller.blogspot.com>>
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > > >
        > > >
        > >
        >
        >


        ------------------------------------

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