Re: CYOA - Re: Your verdict, Gentle Columbians
- Hello, Pete and Larry.
To answer the question about how one measures that 'out of plumb' situation, here's how I did it: I hung the boat, one strap forward of the lead slug, one strap aft. The lead slug was 3/8" out of plumb to starboard, measured against the deadwood to its rear. The back of the slug showed that growth had been periodically scraped off, from its movement from side to side as it scraped against the aft deadwood - - not wood, actually, but you get the drift.
Since the vessel was hung in the straps only slightly out of the vertical, it would be logical to assume that the 3/8" could be more, given more heel. That slight 3/8" could have been just a clue to a bigger issue.
If you were planning on passage making, would you also be concerned about a mobile lead slug? Would you buy a boat, knowing that the lead ballast needed dropping and re-attaching? Or would you either shop elsewhere or hope the owner discounted the vessel enough to pay for that and the rudder work?
I guess I'm a bit of a nit-picker by nature. Don't worry, you haven't insulted me. I've been called that by experts <G> and in fact have sort of made my living by being that way. It's a hard habit to break.
I don't think this story is over, even though I have withdrawn my offer. We'll see. The owner has three boats and wants to get rid of this one.
And the rest of you on this list - you've given me some great ideas and thoughts on this and other related matters, and you can expect regular updates as this situation proceeds.
James R. Muri
BUY: My e-Novels at http://blizzardguy.com/venture/
From: Pete Malone <petemalone@...>
Sent: Sunday, February 1, 2009 6:08:09 AM
Subject: CYOA - Re: Your verdict, Gentle Columbians
My question echoes Larry's - exactly how does one take a specific
measurement indicating 3/8" per side lateral offset on heel?
BTW, these deficiencies represent onerous repair jobs, but nothing
outside the range of a fellow like yourself, Jim.
Go ahead, it will work out fine....and its good for the economy....
--- In columbiasailingyach ts@yahoogroups. com, "Larry Wilson"
<radicalcy@. ..> wrote:
> So how does one measure the plumb when under way? I wouldn't be
> surprised though if that bit of movement is much more than hull flex
> due to the weight of the keel itself.
> If it's truly loose, then removal, filling the attachment holes and
> redrilling, then rebedding would seem to take care of the problem.
> humble opinion)drooled
> Cutless bearing isn't that big a deal. Replace it.
> If the rudder isn't totally shot, split it open, clean out the foam,
> and re build it. Again, not that big a deal. Same with the gudgeon
> assembly. \\
> There were only what, 11 of the ll.7's built? Go for it...I've
> over that boat for 5 years.expect
> Larry Wilson
> --- In columbiasailingyach ts@yahoogroups. com, Jim Muri <irumrj@>
> > I'm looking at an 11.8.ï¿½ Aside from the 'usual' stuff you'd
> to find on a 30-year old boat,ï¿½the survey also unearthed thefollowing:
> >has about
> > 1.ï¿½ï¿½The 11000 pound lead slug used in its shoal draft keel
> 3/4 of an inch of play at the bottom - that is, on one tack it isshaft can
> about 3/8 inch out of plumb one way, on the opposite tack it's the
> same out of plumb the other way.ï¿½ In short, it's working back and
> forth.ï¿½ Are we at risk here of the keel bolts being exposed to sea
> water?ï¿½ Or the keel simply falling off?
> > 2.ï¿½ The cutless bearing has significant endplay - the prop
> moveï¿½sideways about a quarter inch in all directions.edge.
> > 3.ï¿½ The rudder has split open vertically downï¿½its leading
> > 4.ï¿½ The single gudgeon hardware appears to have suffered apretty
> severe blow one time or another, because its coating of epoxyï¿½/We
> gelcoat has flaked off in chunks, exposing it to the salt water.ï¿½
> didn't notice any looseness of the skeg.standards.ï¿½
> > The owner, who's trying to unload this otherwise passable vessel
> onto me, has already incurred significant expense bringing the other
> vessel systems up to myï¿½pragmatic (if it works, it's good)
> By Monday theï¿½surveyor and yard will have a better idea what itwill
> take (in terms of $$$) to fix the items I mentioned.Seattle,
> > For that matter, so have I.ï¿½ Two trips to Sausalito from
> surveyor fees, yard fees, hotel bills, etc.at
> > Your verdict solicited:ï¿½ is it time to stop throwing good money
> this boat?ï¿½ï¿½[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > ï¿½James R. Muri
> > Novelist, Sailor
> > BUY: My e-Novels at http://blizzardguy. com/venture/
> > SITE: http://blizzardguy. com
> > BLOG: http://theostrichki ller.blogspot. com
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
- Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
From: Paul Esterle <pesterle@...>
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2009 11:42:13
Subject: Re: DIY-Boat Owner. Was: CYOA - Your verdict, Gentle Columbians
I feel for you. I don't get a copy of the issue with my articles in
them, I have to buy them. I tried the online subscription site and
eventually gave up. Now I just buy my copy from my buddies at the local
Freelance Boating Writer
Columbia 10.7, 26 & Matilda 20
North East, MD.
“Capt’n Pauley’s Boat Repairs & Upgrades”
book at www.captnpauley.com
> I can't wait to see your article. I just ordered an electronic copy of
> DIY-Boat Owner but, boy, do they have a complicated subscription
> structure! With online subscription, print subscription, CD
> collections, single-issue, multi-issue. Then there is backorder,
> forward-order, side-order and who-knows-what-order.
> I _believe_ I now ordered a one year subscription including the issue
> with your article but I must confess I am not really sure. Also,
> confusingly, I ordered the online subscription, paid online of course,
> but it seems now I have to wait for something to be delivered by the
> USPS??? I expected to get sent some access code by email but it seems
> I was wrong and they send one by snail mail?? We'll see.
> I hope this all works out and I will eventually see your article. I
> always enjoy your descriptions, very nice and clear.
> --- In firstname.lastname@example.org
> <mailto:columbiasailingyachts%40yahoogroups.com>, Paul Esterle
> <pesterle@...> wrote:
> > See the Last issue of DIY-Boat Owner for my article on rebuilding a
> > rudder...
> > Paul Esterle
> > Freelance Boating Writer
> > Columbia 10.7, 26 & Matilda 20
> > North East, MD.
> > "Capt'n Pauley's Boat Repairs & Upgrades"
> > book at www.captnpauley.com
> > home.comcast.net/~pesterle/
> > Kbjmjrb@... wrote:
> > >
> > > James,
> > > If the ballast is really shifting, that is an intolerable condition.
> > > Drilling holes and injecting epoxy resin is a possible fix. The split
> > > rudder
> > > needs to be repaired. The most common cause is water intrusion
> > > cracks. The
> > > cracks can come from collision, poor workmanship, or freezing
> while on
> > > the
> > > hard. This can cause expanding corrosion on the inner metal framework
> > > which then
> > > splits the GRP cover. Another cause can be a lighting strike. In any
> > > cast,
> > > the GRP covering needs to be removed in places to inspect the inner
> > > skeleton and
> > > insure that it has not been substantially weakened. Do not be too shy
> > > about
> > > cutting into the GRP to inspect. A die grinder with the proper bits
> > > makes this
> > > quick work and replacing small areas of GRP with new cloth and epoxy
> > > resin is
> > > easy. The hard part with both the keel and the rudder may be drying
> > > things out
> > > enough to fix.
> > >
> > > Bruce K
> > > Challenger # 74, "Ouroboros"
> > > Los Lunas, NM >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I'm looking at an 11.8. Aside from the 'usual' stuff you'd
> expect to
> > > find
> > > > on a 30-year old boat, the survey also unearthed the following:
> > > >
> > > > 1. The 11000 pound lead slug used in its shoal draft keel has about
> > > 3/4 of
> > > > an inch of play at the bottom - that is, on one tack it is about
> > > inch out
> > > > of plumb one way, on the opposite tack it's the same out of plumb
> > > the other
> > > > way. In short, it's working back and forth. Are we at risk here of
> > > the keel
> > > > bolts being exposed to sea water? Or the keel simply falling off?
> > > > 2. The cutless bearing has significant endplay - the prop shaft can
> > > move
> > > > sideways about a quarter inch in all directions.
> > > > 3. The rudder has split open vertically down its leading edge.
> > > > 4. The single gudgeon hardware appears to have suffered a pretty
> > > > blow one time or another, because its coating of epoxy / gelcoat
> > > flaked off
> > > > in chunks, exposing it to the salt water. We didn't notice any
> > > looseness of
> > > > the skeg.
> > > >
> > > > The owner, who's trying to unload this otherwise passable vessel
> > > onto me,
> > > > has already incurred significant expense bringing the other vessel
> > > systems up
> > > > to my pragmatic (if it works, it's good) standards. By Monday the
> > > surveyor
> > > > and yard will have a better idea what it will take (in terms of
> > > to fix the
> > > > items I mentioned.
> > > >
> > > > For that matter, so have I. Two trips to Sausalito from Seattle,
> > > surveyor
> > > > fees, yard fees, hotel bills, etc.
> > > >
> > > > Your verdict solicited: is it time to stop throwing good money
> at this
> > > > boat?
> > > > James R. Muri
> > > >
> > > > Novelist, Sailor
> > > > BUY: My e-Novels at http://blizzardguy.com/venture/
> > > <http://blizzardguy.com/venture/ <http://blizzardguy.com/venture/>>
> > > > SITE: http://blizzardguy.com <http://blizzardguy.com>
> <http://blizzardguy.com <http://blizzardguy.com>>
> > > > BLOG: http://theostrichkiller.blogspot.com
> > > <http://theostrichkiller.blogspot.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
Columbia Yacht Owners Association Website:
To Post a message, send it to: columbiasailingyachts@...
To Subscribe, send a message to: columbiasailingyachts-subscribe@...
To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: columbiasailingyachts-unsubscribe@...! Groups Links