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Family Place

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  • venturagm@aol.com
    William, You have a valid point, but it is based on a unrealistic premis. Human beings are not always as mature as we would expect them to be (rarely are). If
    Message 1 of 9 , May 1, 2002
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      William,

      You have a valid point, but it is based on a unrealistic premis. Human beings are not always as mature as we would expect them to be (rarely are). If that were the case, we wouldn't need police departments, courts, lawyers, or politicians (elected leadership). Society would just exist with these occassional "talks amongst ourselves".

      As witnessed in this most recent event with Family Place, one adult presented his case to another and there was no solution that would appease both. Hence, a mediator is required (the courts). When the either adult takes the disagreement further and begins to harrass the other adult, then a restraining force is required (police). When a standard needs to be applied to find the solution we look for something to guide by (the law/codes).

      It would be nice if we could each resolve our differences through communication alone, but that has never been the strongest trait of humanity.

      Try reasoning with some gang members about shootings on your street or drug traffic spill overs.

      Try to reason with a drunk who urinates in your stairwell or sleeps in the park.

      Try to reason with another adult that has a totally different perception of the world than yourself. In this case, who's perception is more accurate?

      Look at the arguements over the Barry Era nepotism, Tivoli building renovations, the recent parcel awards, Faircliff Plaza East shootings, Girard Street drunkard socials, and many other near home disagreements.

      Until humanity evolves to a point beyond the need for law enforcement, militaries, courts, lawyers, and the like, we will find ourselves with situations very similar to the issue with Family Place and the neighborhood more often than not.

      It doesn't make it right, just accepting reality.

      Gus
    • gjbauer@att.net
      Mr. Jordan, Since you seem to disagree with all of the actions so far but have not said exactly what should have been done differently. Could you please tell
      Message 2 of 9 , May 1, 2002
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        Mr. Jordan,
        Since you seem to disagree with all of the actions so
        far but have not said exactly what should have been done
        differently. Could you please tell how you would have
        behaved differently under the same circumstances (other
        than not involving this e-mail group). I'm sure we could
        all benefit from your thoughts on this.
        > Yes, he's a great baby sister, think what could be accomplished if he did not
        > have to spend so much time baby sitting adults.
        >
        > William
        >
        > venturagm@... wrote:
        >
        > > I told you that the Councilman would make things happen.
        > >
        > > Thank you, Councilman Graham.
        > >
        > > R/Gus
        > >
        > >
        > > URL to this page on the web: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/columbia_heights/
        > >
        > >
        > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >
        >
        > URL to this page on the web: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/columbia_heights/
        >
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >
      • William Jordan
        Mr. Bauer(?), While I don t remember disagreeing with all actions taken so far, I will take shot at your question/challenge. First, my actions or approach
        Message 3 of 9 , May 2, 2002
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          Mr. Bauer(?),

          While I don't remember disagreeing with "all" actions taken so far, I will take shot
          at your question/challenge.

          First, my actions or approach would depend on the objective I wanted to achieve. My
          actions would vary depending on whether:

          a) I viewed Family Place as a nuisance that did good work, but no longer wanted them
          in "my backyard"...

          b) Frustrated, after years of failure and I wanted to blow off steam and send a
          message that I was serious ....

          c) I did not really mind Family Place as a neighbor, but wanted them to make some
          changes to appearance and some policies....

          d) I wanted to establish a long term working relationship that satified both mutual
          and self interest...

          Which option would you like me to address in terms of my response. BTW, I can only
          make a projection, sometimes you just have to be there. Also, never said I would not
          try to involve this group or Mr. Graham. It's mainly how, when and to what purpose.
          The best way to avoid a bruhaha is to avoid a bruhaha.
          Let, me know which objective(s) above or other to optimize around. And I will take a
          shot at it.

          William


          gjbauer@... wrote:

          > Mr. Jordan,
          > Since you seem to disagree with all of the actions so
          > far but have not said exactly what should have been done
          > differently. Could you please tell how you would have
          > behaved differently under the same circumstances (other
          > than not involving this e-mail group). I'm sure we could
          > all benefit from your thoughts on this.
          > > Yes, he's a great baby sister, think what could be accomplished if he did not
          > > have to spend so much time baby sitting adults.
          > >
          > > William
          > >
          > > venturagm@... wrote:
          > >
          > > > I told you that the Councilman would make things happen.
          > > >
          > > > Thank you, Councilman Graham.
          > > >
          > > > R/Gus
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > URL to this page on the web: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/columbia_heights/
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > URL to this page on the web: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/columbia_heights/
          > >
          > >
          > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          > URL to this page on the web: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/columbia_heights/
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        • William Jordan
          My perspetive is not based on an either or approach to things especially when involving people who are stuck with each other at least in the short term. My
          Message 4 of 9 , May 2, 2002
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            My perspetive is not based on an "either or" approach to things especially when involving people who are stuck with each other at least in the short term. My goal would always be to have the outcome be a good working relationship, not to always get "my way". The "squeaky wheel" approach to things is not always the best. This is often the problem, some believe that whining, complaining and creating mini-bruhahas is the baseline approach
            to all issues and problems. But the over use of this tactic puts everyone on the defensive all the time. Which mostly leads to the least optimum solutions. Columbia Heights, with its diverse population, culturally, racially, class wise and economically can not afford least optimum solutions to problems if we are to maintain our diversity over time. I understand that this is not something of value to some, but the people, the location
            and its diversity is why I like Columbia Heights. Market forces could care less, so wasting the energy of our officials on small issues when we need them to focus on larger issues is not the best approach for Columbia Heights. I have never said don't use the police, courts, lawyers, elected leadership; I am saying to use them wisely and effeciently.

            Family Place Bruhaha - I don't buy that it was an issue mainly about building standards, laws and codes. My view is they were secondary, used to try to force the will of one party on another. Yes, standards, laws, codes are legitimate issues but they seemed to me to be being used as weapons not tools. They work most optimally as tools not weapons. The name calling was wrong, but the seeds had been sown. We "the community" could have
            done a "Christmas in April" for Family Place long ago and a Bruhaha would not have been necessary.

            Communication Alone? - Sometimes a "butt whipping" can communicate. I don't suggest only talking. This is why folk are pushing community cleanups, adopting parks, creating marketplaces. Sometimes working together is the best communicator.

            Gangs and crime - This is what I want to police to focus on mainly, not "Jim's family affairs". Even, with that focus, these problems require community members operating with good working relationships. Secondly we need to distinguish between 8 year-olds and drug gangs, littering and robberies.

            Drunks and urinating - Most of the time conversation works sometimes an accent of "baseball bat" is need for affect.

            Different Worlds - That takes time and effort. As I have said before my belief is that some don't want to do this work, they want Council Member Graham, the police and others to act as their buffers. I can't name the times when I have asked, "Did you talk to them about it?" and the answer as been "Ain't no use talking to those people" or "I tried once..." Yet, in most cases Jim Graham can work it out. Unfortunately, by Graham comming to
            the rescue he "enables" our "those people dysfunction". Some of us are addicted to "whining".

            Barry nepotism vs. Williams nepotism - that the politics baby. My slugs or yours.

            The Tivoli - I won't beat that horse today

            Girad Street Social - some are mad becuase the weren't invited :)

            Shootings - that's when we really need the police

            Evolving Humanity - "basically treat folk the way you would want to be treated", "Try and walk a few steps in someone elses shoes". And other stuff like that.

            Accepting reality - Or looking for the easy or selfish way out?

            William



            venturagm@... wrote:

            > William,
            >
            > You have a valid point, but it is based on a unrealistic premis. Human beings are not always as mature as we would expect them to be (rarely are). If that were the case, we wouldn't need police departments, courts, lawyers, or politicians (elected leadership). Society would just exist with these occassional "talks amongst ourselves".
            >
            > As witnessed in this most recent event with Family Place, one adult presented his case to another and there was no solution that would appease both. Hence, a mediator is required (the courts). When the either adult takes the disagreement further and begins to harrass the other adult, then a restraining force is required (police). When a standard needs to be applied to find the solution we look for something to guide by (the law/codes).
            >
            > It would be nice if we could each resolve our differences through communication alone, but that has never been the strongest trait of humanity.
            >
            > Try reasoning with some gang members about shootings on your street or drug traffic spill overs.
            >
            > Try to reason with a drunk who urinates in your stairwell or sleeps in the park.
            >
            > Try to reason with another adult that has a totally different perception of the world than yourself. In this case, who's perception is more accurate?
            >
            > Look at the arguements over the Barry Era nepotism, Tivoli building renovations, the recent parcel awards, Faircliff Plaza East shootings, Girard Street drunkard socials, and many other near home disagreements.
            >
            > Until humanity evolves to a point beyond the need for law enforcement, militaries, courts, lawyers, and the like, we will find ourselves with situations very similar to the issue with Family Place and the neighborhood more often than not.
            >
            > It doesn't make it right, just accepting reality.
            >
            > Gus
            >
            >
            > URL to this page on the web: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/columbia_heights/
            >
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          • gjbauer@att.net
            Try option d. which is what has been tried for years and failed. Assuming you live in the neighborhood, go by and take a look at the porch on 3309 - 16th that
            Message 5 of 9 , May 2, 2002
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              Try option d. which is what has been tried for years and
              failed. Assuming you live in the neighborhood, go by and
              take a look at the porch on 3309 - 16th that they were
              about to add on to. Look at the front left corner where
              it's sagged and now drains onto the steps at 3311 and
              the undermining that has happened to these steps. Also
              the pipe that fromerly drained this porch to the street
              drain has broken underground. They have been politely
              requested for years to remedy this situation. Now they
              were about to add a ramp to tht corner without permits,
              had volunteers digging over underground utilities
              without knowing and were about to build a ramp that even
              if they had a permit, would not have met code
              requirements. The broken pipe would also now be under
              the ramp they're building. They've refused to stop. What
              do you do under situation d.
              > Mr. Bauer(?),
              >
              > While I don't remember disagreeing with "all" actions taken so far, I will take
              > shot
              > at your question/challenge.
              >
              > First, my actions or approach would depend on the objective I wanted to achieve.
              > My
              > actions would vary depending on whether:
              >
              > a) I viewed Family Place as a nuisance that did good work, but no longer wanted
              > them
              > in "my backyard"...
              >
              > b) Frustrated, after years of failure and I wanted to blow off steam and send a
              > message that I was serious ....
              >
              > c) I did not really mind Family Place as a neighbor, but wanted them to make
              > some
              > changes to appearance and some policies....
              >
              > d) I wanted to establish a long term working relationship that satified both
              > mutual
              > and self interest...
              >
              > Which option would you like me to address in terms of my response. BTW, I can
              > only
              > make a projection, sometimes you just have to be there. Also, never said I would
              > not
              > try to involve this group or Mr. Graham. It's mainly how, when and to what
              > purpose.
              > The best way to avoid a bruhaha is to avoid a bruhaha.
              > Let, me know which objective(s) above or other to optimize around. And I will
              > take a
              > shot at it.
              >
              > William
              >
              >
              > gjbauer@... wrote:
              >
              > > Mr. Jordan,
              > > Since you seem to disagree with all of the actions so
              > > far but have not said exactly what should have been done
              > > differently. Could you please tell how you would have
              > > behaved differently under the same circumstances (other
              > > than not involving this e-mail group). I'm sure we could
              > > all benefit from your thoughts on this.
              > > > Yes, he's a great baby sister, think what could be accomplished if he did
              > not
              > > > have to spend so much time baby sitting adults.
              > > >
              > > > William
              > > >
              > > > venturagm@... wrote:
              > > >
              > > > > I told you that the Councilman would make things happen.
              > > > >
              > > > > Thank you, Councilman Graham.
              > > > >
              > > > > R/Gus
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > URL to this page on the web:
              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/columbia_heights/
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > URL to this page on the web: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/columbia_heights/
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              > > >
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > > URL to this page on the web: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/columbia_heights/
              > >
              > >
              > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >
              >
              >
              > URL to this page on the web: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/columbia_heights/
              >
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >
              >
            • William Jordan
              So what are the priorities of the items you want them to address? What are the major priorities of Family Place in general and these issues in specific? What
              Message 6 of 9 , May 2, 2002
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                So what are the priorities of the items you want them to address?

                What are the major priorities of Family Place in general and these issues in specific?

                What is your self interest in this? What would make you happy?

                What is it Family Place needs to get those things done? Money, equipment, labor?

                Will they allow you or a group to adopt the front porch and its up keep?

                Will they accep help with the permitting process?

                William

                gjbauer@... wrote:

                > Try option d. which is what has been tried for years and
                > failed. Assuming you live in the neighborhood, go by and
                > take a look at the porch on 3309 - 16th that they were
                > about to add on to. Look at the front left corner where
                > it's sagged and now drains onto the steps at 3311 and
                > the undermining that has happened to these steps. Also
                > the pipe that fromerly drained this porch to the street
                > drain has broken underground. They have been politely
                > requested for years to remedy this situation. Now they
                > were about to add a ramp to tht corner without permits,
                > had volunteers digging over underground utilities
                > without knowing and were about to build a ramp that even
                > if they had a permit, would not have met code
                > requirements. The broken pipe would also now be under
                > the ramp they're building. They've refused to stop. What
                > do you do under situation d.
                > > Mr. Bauer(?),
                > >
                > > While I don't remember disagreeing with "all" actions taken so far, I will take
                > > shot
                > > at your question/challenge.
                > >
                > > First, my actions or approach would depend on the objective I wanted to achieve.
                > > My
                > > actions would vary depending on whether:
                > >
                > > a) I viewed Family Place as a nuisance that did good work, but no longer wanted
                > > them
                > > in "my backyard"...
                > >
                > > b) Frustrated, after years of failure and I wanted to blow off steam and send a
                > > message that I was serious ....
                > >
                > > c) I did not really mind Family Place as a neighbor, but wanted them to make
                > > some
                > > changes to appearance and some policies....
                > >
                > > d) I wanted to establish a long term working relationship that satified both
                > > mutual
                > > and self interest...
                > >
                > > Which option would you like me to address in terms of my response. BTW, I can
                > > only
                > > make a projection, sometimes you just have to be there. Also, never said I would
                > > not
                > > try to involve this group or Mr. Graham. It's mainly how, when and to what
                > > purpose.
                > > The best way to avoid a bruhaha is to avoid a bruhaha.
                > > Let, me know which objective(s) above or other to optimize around. And I will
                > > take a
                > > shot at it.
                > >
                > > William
                > >
                > >
                > > gjbauer@... wrote:
                > >
                > > > Mr. Jordan,
                > > > Since you seem to disagree with all of the actions so
                > > > far but have not said exactly what should have been done
                > > > differently. Could you please tell how you would have
                > > > behaved differently under the same circumstances (other
                > > > than not involving this e-mail group). I'm sure we could
                > > > all benefit from your thoughts on this.
                > > > > Yes, he's a great baby sister, think what could be accomplished if he did
                > > not
                > > > > have to spend so much time baby sitting adults.
                > > > >
                > > > > William
                > > > >
                > > > > venturagm@... wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > > > I told you that the Councilman would make things happen.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Thank you, Councilman Graham.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > R/Gus
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > > URL to this page on the web:
                > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/columbia_heights/
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > URL to this page on the web: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/columbia_heights/
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > URL to this page on the web: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/columbia_heights/
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > URL to this page on the web: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/columbia_heights/
                > >
                > >
                > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                > URL to this page on the web: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/columbia_heights/
                >
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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