Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

RE: RE: [columbia_heights] Re: Silly Season for kids

Expand Messages
  • vadoniacrawford@netscape.net
    The place to start is with the parents, smacking the shit out of them is not an answer and if you or anyone puts their hands on them it will be hell to paid.
    Message 1 of 24 , Apr 3, 2002
      The place to start is with the parents, "smacking the shit out of them" is not an answer and if you or anyone puts their hands on them it will be hell to paid. Has anyone spoken with the parents? Have anyone spoken with the youth groups to see if they have tired to reach out to these youths/ or if they are a part of the youth groups? Does anyone know what the background is on any of these children? If anyone is turly concern about the kids, then go over to the Village and ask management if you can speak with the parents of these kids or ask the police to take you to the parents and speak with them yourself, since the Police seem to know who it is. Or go over to the youth group in the area and ask if they know the children or their parents. Be careful what you wish on other people because the curse you wish on others come back on you......VAl





      "Caroline Polk" <cpolk@...> wrote:

      >"Silly season" my ass. The people creating trouble aren't just "being
      >silly"--they are more often than not disturbing the peace, breaking glass,
      >or just generally being bad citizens.
      >
      >Re: the kids, I think this is the same group who threw a brick at me in the
      >1400 block of Harvard street in February (I was ringing a doorbell, which
      >provoked them for some reason), whom I saw throwing rocks at cars in the
      >1300 block of Irving street yesterday evening, and who have called me "white
      >bitch" as well, along with other choice names. There are around 7 of them,
      >and they all appear to be under age 11. My partner has also been harassed by
      >them. They live in and around Columbia Heights village. I believe one of
      >them is named Simon and lives at 1345 Harvard (I got the information from
      >the police, whom I called after I got the brick thrown at me.) The kids do
      >not respond to the usual tricks that adults use to control unruly children.
      >It's a little Clockwork-Orangeish.
      >
      >It infuriates me that these children are known to the community and have
      >been causing trouble for well over a year, yet nothing has happened. The
      >folks running the youth groups at Columbia Heights Village and the other
      >social service organizations in the area seem impotent.  Someone needs to do
      >something--these kids are headed for bigger trouble. Part of me feels sorry
      >for them that they are so young yet so messed up. Another part of me can't
      >wait until some less patient adult smacks the shit out of them.
      >
      >-----Original Message-----
      >From: ckriegwcl [mailto:ckriegwcl@...]
      >Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 9:30 AM
      >To: columbia_heights@yahoogroups.com
      >Subject: [columbia_heights] Re: Silly Season for kids
      >
      >
      >  Well, it's "silly season"  on 15th St., too.  A bunch of boys, 8-10
      >  years old tried to follow me into my apartment building last night, I
      >  don't know why.....just hijinx, I guess. When the security door shut
      >  them out, they started to bang on the door and throw themselves
      >  against the glass and windows.  (There are no children living in the
      >  building so they weren't residents).  I told them to knock it off and
      >  move along.  This only got them going more, and then I found myself
      >  being called a "white bitch" amonst other charming epithets by a
      >  bunch of little kids.  Rather then yell back, I tried to defuse the
      >  situation by appealing to reason, "Why are you behaving this way?  I
      >  know you know better..." type of thing.  No effect, more insults.
      >  I told them if they didn't move along I was going to go upstairs and
      >  get my husband (not that I enjoy having to threaten a bunch of little
      >  kids with my big, bad husband.....) So, I go upstairs and my husband
      >  leans off the balcony and asks the kids what's going on?  They then
      >  start jumping all over a parked motorcycle and some cars - totally
      >  out of control...one of them threatened to "shoot us".  These were
      >  little kids - it was ridiculous.  I'm not going to insult a kid and
      >  I really don't want to call the cops on a bunch of 8 year olds.  One
      >  of my neighbors who also saw them, said they've also been hanging out
      >  in Malcolm "X" park throwing rocks at passing traffic.
      >
      >  Anyone have any ideas on how to discourage this type of behaviour?
      >  It's really depressing...whatever happened to minding your neighbors
      >  kids?  There were certainly other adults out and about, I can't
      >  believe no one else said anything to them.
      >
      >
      >  --- In columbia_heights@y..., "David McIntire" <mail@i...> wrote:
      >  > If the locals can't do it bring in the Feds. There was
      >  > also an incident of the ATF chasing someone on a bicycle
      >  > on Hiatt Place last night. It was exciting and better
      >  > than most TV. It is spring which tends to be the silly
      >  > season here on Park Rd. and Hiatt Place. I turn off the
      >  > TV (and computer) and spend many evenings watching the
      >  > passing scene on Park Rd.
      >  >
      >  > Dave McIntire
      >  >
      >  > ------------------------------
      >  > Shots Near Crowd Spur Call for Probe
      >  > NW Incident Involves Secret Service
      >  > By Petula Dvorak
      >  > Washington Post Staff Writer
      >  > Wednesday, April 3, 2002; Page B03
      >  >
      >  >
      >  > D.C. Council member Jim Graham has asked the U.S. Secret
      >  > Service to investigate an incident last month in which
      >  > two of its officers opened fire outside a busy Adams
      >  > Morgan night spot because a machete-wielding man refused
      >  > to drop his knife.
      >  >
      >  > Graham (D-Ward 1), who said he has been agonizing over a
      >  > recent spate of violence in his diverse district, asked
      >  > for a probe after several eyewitnesses gave him markedly
      >  > different accounts of the March 24 incident.
      >  >
      >  > "This is beginning to feel like Dodge City," Graham said
      >  > recently, referring to the Secret Service and other
      >  > shootings in his ward. "What am I, the sheriff?"
      >  >
      >  > The service initially said that an officer fired a
      >  > warning shot after seeing a man standing in the street
      >  > outside Chief Ike's Mambo Room, at 1725 Columbia Rd. NW,
      >  > arguing with another man and holding a long-bladed
      >  > knife.
      >  >
      >  > Eyewitnesses disputed that account, and Jim Mackin, a
      >  > spokesman for the Secret Service, later said that two
      >  > officers fired a total of three warning shots.
      >  >
      >  > Jeff Simpson, a University of Maryland graduate student
      >  > who watched the 2:30 a.m. incident unfold, said the
      >  > officers fired into a crowd of onlookers without
      >  > warning.
      >  >
      >  > "Without identifying themselves, without verbal warning
      >  > to either man, without warning shots and without
      >  > hesitation, the officers drew their guns, aimed and
      >  > fired three shots in total," said Simpson, 30, who was
      >  > leaving the bar with several friends.
      >  >
      >  > Simpson said the man with the knife was not threatening
      >  > the crowd outside.
      >  >
      >  > "It was a long knife, definitely something like a
      >  > machete," he said. "But he was holding it raised, no
      >  > thrusts or swipes, and he was arguing in the middle of
      >  > the street with another guy. Then, all of a sudden,
      >  > shots were fired."
      >  >
      >  > The bullets, which were fired toward the man with knife,
      >  > shattered a storefront window and lodged in two cars
      >  > near the crowd, Simpson said. The officers had dark
      >  > uniforms and badges, and he had not seen them arrive.
      >  > Later, he said, he noticed that a Secret Service car had
      >  > crashed into a parked car.
      >  >
      >  > Mark Hurley, 32, another witness, said his biggest
      >  > concern was that civilians who did not see the officers
      >  > arrive had no warning to duck from the gunfire.
      >  >
      >  > "I want to know why they just started shooting without
      >  > warning all the other people there," he said. "We were
      >  > all in the line of fire."
      >  >
      >  > Graham sent his letter to the Secret Service's
      >  > Washington field office Monday. "Based on accounts of
      >  > eyewitnesses, it appears that the police shootings may
      >  > have lacked justification and may have endangered other
      >  > persons who were bystanders," he wrote.
      >  >
      >  > Mackin said the officers were responding to a report
      >  > alerting them to a man wielding a machete in the street
      >  > and arrived at the scene expecting danger.
      >  >
      >  > "They came because a citizen flagged them down," he
      >  > said.
      >  >
      >  > The man with the machete was later arrested.
      >  >
      >  > Several shootings have occurred in Graham's district in
      >  > the past month. Among them are the wounding of a
      >  > 16-year-old as she sat in her boyfriend's car and other
      >  > shootings that D.C. police suspect are gang-related.
      >  >
      >  > Recent legislation gives local police powers to federal
      >  > agencies working in the region, so it was within the
      >  > officers' jurisdiction to respond.
      >  >
      >  > Mackin, who said the two officers remain on duty, said
      >  > Graham's request for an investigation was unnecessary.
      >  > "Any time a weapon is discharged, whether it's one, two,
      >  > three shots or more, there is a routine inquiry," Mackin
      >  > said.
      >  >
      >  > Graham said the last thing he wants is to chase
      >  > uniformed officers from his ward.
      >  >
      >  > "I need police; we want police," he said. "But if it's
      >  > true that we have police officers shooting across a busy
      >  > street without identifying themselves, that's a
      >  > draconian reaction to a quarrel."
      >  >
      >  >
      >  >
      >  > © 2002 The Washington Post Company
      >
      >
      >        Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
      >              ADVERTISEMENT
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >  URL to this page on the web:
      >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/columbia_heights/
      >
      >
      >  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
      >
      >


      --
      VADONIA CRAWFORD



      __________________________________________________________________
      Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/

      Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/
    • Stephen Kline
      William: Your condescending reply to these issues is pathetic. You haven t been there and seen what these kids are like. And, like I said in my private post
      Message 2 of 24 , Apr 3, 2002
        William:
         
        Your condescending reply to these issues is pathetic.  You haven't been there and seen what these kids are like.  And, like I said in my private post to you, this has nothing to do with your (and Mack James') political ambition against Jim Graham.  To try to turn this into in a political issue is plain dumb.  Situations where children are running out of control and conducting themselves in a despicable fashion are exactly what citizens hire policemen for.  The fact that there have been no consequences to their behaviour in the past is testimony enough the justify police or other authoritative intervention.
         
        stephen kline
        -----Original Message-----
        From: William Jordan [mailto:whj@...]
        Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 1:06 PM
        Cc: cpolk@...; 'David McIntire'; columbia_heights@yahoogroups.com; 'John Brill'
        Subject: Re: [columbia_heights] Re: Silly Season for kids

         
        This is one of those things where I am caught between the emotions of whether to laugh or cry.  "...but to be terrorized by a pack of 8-year-olds is really too much."
        Government institutions are not designed for this, I guess things are worst than I would have every imagined, leadership wise.

        William
         

        Caroline Polk wrote:

         I agree that community intervention is warranted. I also think the kids are so far out of control that it's going to take some serious intervention--from people with some professional expertise--with the families, along with community "tuff love." I don't think police are a substitute for family and community at all, but if the parents aren't making the kids suffer consequences for their misbehavior, cops are the next best thing until the situation is brought under control. I have no doubt that the kids have experienced the usual neighborly interventions (admonitions to put garbage in trash cans, etc.), but that has not worked. I don't think anyone wants to call child protective services, but that is always an option if community intervention doesn't work--clearly, the kids are being neglected. I hope CHV and everyone else on the social services end can take care of the matter in short order. It's bad enough that so many people have been shot in our neighborhood--but to be terrorized by a pack of 8-year-olds is really too much.
        -----Original Message-----
        From: William Jordan [mailto:whj@...]
        Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 12:32 PM
        Cc: cpolk@...; 'David McIntire'; columbia_heights@yahoogroups.com; 'John Brill'
        Subject: Re: [columbia_heights] Re: Silly Season for kids
         


        Caroline,

        Please, don't take Dave's advise in terms of not talking to children and giving up.  I'm pretty sure a few adults and a few evenings can handle this. I'll make myself available.

        It is the lack of talking and interaction that makes solveable community problems police problems.  This is and an examble of something I referred to some emails ago of persons trying to turn police and city workers into "baby sisters" and community buffers.  PSA meetings will never be a substitute for the hard work of being community.  What those children need is some very tuff community love.

        We/I are going to have to work harder to fill the lack of leadership in Columbia Heights and ward 1 in general.

        William

        Caroline Polk wrote:

        I have contacted the police before and will not hesitate to do so again if I see the kids acting up. I agree that talking to the kids is a waste of time. I wonder if anyone has tried talking to their parents.My understanding is that John Brill is aware of the situation, but I'm sure it's good to let him know about these incidents as they happen. 
        -----Original Message-----
        From: David McIntire [mailto:mail@...]
        Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 10:45 AM
        To: columbia_heights@yahoogroups.com; John Brill
        Subject: Re: [columbia_heights] Re: Silly Season for kids
        Caroline, There is a couple of things you could do. One, contact John Brill at Columbia Heights Village. He is the full time social services director. He is a member of this list and I am directing this email to him. Secondly, bring up your concerns at your local PSA meeting. Trying to talk to the kids is a waste of time and probably counterproductive. They are looking for some reaction from you and trying to intimidate you. That is why they do it. It is best handled by the police. Dave
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 9:59 AM
        Subject: RE: [columbia_heights] Re: Silly Season for kids
        "Silly season" my ass. The people creating trouble aren't just "being silly"--they are more often than not disturbing the peace, breaking glass, or just generally being bad citizens. Re: the kids, I think this is the same group who threw a brick at me in the 1400 block of Harvard street in February (I was ringing a doorbell, which provoked them for some reason), whom I saw throwing rocks at cars in the 1300 block of Irving street yesterday evening, and who have called me "white bitch" as well, along with other choice names. There are around 7 of them, and they all appear to be under age 11. My partner has also been harassed by them. They live in and around Columbia Heights village. I believe one of them is named Simon and lives at 1345 Harvard (I got the information from the police, whom I called after I got the brick thrown at me.) The kids do not respond to the usual tricks that adults use to control unruly children. It's a little Clockwork-Orangeish. It infuriates me that these children are known to the community and have been causing trouble for well over a year, yet nothing has happened. The folks running the youth groups at Columbia Heights Village and the other social service organizations in the area seem impotent.  Someone needs to do something--these kids are headed for bigger trouble. Part of me feels sorry for them that they are so young yet so messed up. Another part of me can't wait until some less patient adult smacks the shit out of them.
        URL to this page on the web: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/columbia_heights/
         

        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



        URL to this page on the web: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/columbia_heights/
         

        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

      • William Jordan
        Stephen, I am sorry, should have listened to the reasonable me and not sent that post. Actually, I m still of a mixed mind on Mr. Graham. In general I think
        Message 3 of 24 , Apr 3, 2002
          Stephen,

          I am sorry, should have listened to the reasonable me and not sent that post.

          Actually, I'm still of a mixed mind on Mr. Graham.  In general I think he's doing alright for a freshman council member.  On the other hand Columbia Heights and Ward 1 needs Jim to step it up to the next level.  I'm baised but I believe Columbia Heights presents an opportunity to set the tone for how a productive and diverse community can operate and even thrive.  The process and nature of development in Columbia Heights is key to this and I think he can perform a little better in handling this issue.  Step one would be to not to allow himself to become an agent of others pet projects, peeves and petty witch hunts. I would actually prefer he "step to it."  Watched, him at the CDC hearings and it was a sad performance, I don't want him to look that bad again.

          My orginal statement on leadership was aimed at us as adults living in Columbia Heights.  I don't want Jim to be a baby sitter any  more than I want the police to be.

          BTW, don't be affraid of Mack, he ain't a bad guy.

          William

          Stephen Kline wrote:

           William:Your condescending reply to these issues is pathetic.  You haven't been there and seen what these kids are like.  And, like I said in my private post to you, this has nothing to do with your (and Mack James') political ambition against Jim Graham.  To try to turn this into in a political issue is plain dumb.  Situations where children are running out of control and conducting themselves in a despicable fashion are exactly what citizens hire policemen for.  The fact that there have been no consequences to their behaviour in the past is testimony enough the justify police or other authoritative intervention.stephen kline
          -----Original Message-----
          From: William Jordan [mailto:whj@...]
          Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 1:06 PM
          Cc: cpolk@...; 'David McIntire'; columbia_heights@yahoogroups.com; 'John Brill'
          Subject: Re: [columbia_heights] Re: Silly Season for kids
           


          This is one of those things where I am caught between the emotions of whether to laugh or cry.  "...but to be terrorized by a pack of 8-year-olds is really too much."
          Government institutions are not designed for this, I guess things are worst than I would have every imagined, leadership wise.

          William
           

          Caroline Polk wrote:

          I agree that community intervention is warranted. I also think the kids are so far out of control that it's going to take some serious intervention--from people with some professional expertise--with the families, along with community "tuff love." I don't think police are a substitute for family and community at all, but if the parents aren't making the kids suffer consequences for their misbehavior, cops are the next best thing until the situation is brought under control. I have no doubt that the kids have experienced the usual neighborly interventions (admonitions to put garbage in trash cans, etc.), but that has not worked. I don't think anyone wants to call child protective services, but that is always an option if community intervention doesn't work--clearly, the kids are being neglected. I hope CHV and everyone else on the social services end can take care of the matter in short order. It's bad enough that so many people have been shot in our neighborhood--but to be terrorized by a pack of 8-year-olds is really too much.
          -----Original Message-----
          From: William Jordan [mailto:whj@...]
          Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 12:32 PM
          Cc: cpolk@...; 'David McIntire'; columbia_heights@yahoogroups.com; 'John Brill'
          Subject: Re: [columbia_heights] Re: Silly Season for kids


          Caroline,

          Please, don't take Dave's advise in terms of not talking to children and giving up.  I'm pretty sure a few adults and a few evenings can handle this. I'll make myself available.

          It is the lack of talking and interaction that makes solveable community problems police problems.  This is and an examble of something I referred to some emails ago of persons trying to turn police and city workers into "baby sisters" and community buffers.  PSA meetings will never be a substitute for the hard work of being community.  What those children need is some very tuff community love.

          We/I are going to have to work harder to fill the lack of leadership in Columbia Heights and ward 1 in general.

          William

          Caroline Polk wrote:

          I have contacted the police before and will not hesitate to do so again if I see the kids acting up. I agree that talking to the kids is a waste of time. I wonder if anyone has tried talking to their parents.My understanding is that John Brill is aware of the situation, but I'm sure it's good to let him know about these incidents as they happen. 
          -----Original Message-----
          From: David McIntire [mailto:mail@...]
          Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 10:45 AM
          To: columbia_heights@yahoogroups.com; John Brill
          Subject: Re: [columbia_heights] Re: Silly Season for kids
          Caroline, There is a couple of things you could do. One, contact John Brill at Columbia Heights Village. He is the full time social services director. He is a member of this list and I am directing this email to him. Secondly, bring up your concerns at your local PSA meeting. Trying to talk to the kids is a waste of time and probably counterproductive. They are looking for some reaction from you and trying to intimidate you. That is why they do it. It is best handled by the police. Dave
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 9:59 AM
          Subject: RE: [columbia_heights] Re: Silly Season for kids
          "Silly season" my ass. The people creating trouble aren't just "being silly"--they are more often than not disturbing the peace, breaking glass, or just generally being bad citizens. Re: the kids, I think this is the same group who threw a brick at me in the 1400 block of Harvard street in February (I was ringing a doorbell, which provoked them for some reason), whom I saw throwing rocks at cars in the 1300 block of Irving street yesterday evening, and who have called me "white bitch" as well, along with other choice names. There are around 7 of them, and they all appear to be under age 11. My partner has also been harassed by them. They live in and around Columbia Heights village. I believe one of them is named Simon and lives at 1345 Harvard (I got the information from the police, whom I called after I got the brick thrown at me.) The kids do not respond to the usual tricks that adults use to control unruly children. It's a little Clockwork-Orangeish. It infuriates me that these children are known to the community and have been causing trouble for well over a year, yet nothing has happened. The folks running the youth groups at Columbia Heights Village and the other social service organizations in the area seem impotent.  Someone needs to do something--these kids are headed for bigger trouble. Part of me feels sorry for them that they are so young yet so messed up. Another part of me can't wait until some less patient adult smacks the shit out of them.
          URL to this page on the web: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/columbia_heights/
           

          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

          URL to this page on the web: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/columbia_heights/
           

          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

        • eheard1874@aol.com
          I had some event occur between myself and a couple of latino youths a couple of years ago. They would walk by my house and yells insults to me and to anyone
          Message 4 of 24 , Apr 3, 2002
            I had some event occur between myself and a couple of latino youths a couple of years ago. They would walk by my house and yells insults to me and to anyone who was visiting me. Then one day, they walked very quietly by my house with an adult latino man and lady. Turns out they were the parents of my friends. I did approach them about the previous events as best I could. Even in there inability to completely understand me and I them, they understood what I was talking about. It took some very heated language from mom and dad and a quick slap on the butt. This was three years ago and the two young gentlemen still walk by the house and now they wave. These parents did care. I do think that the best thing is to let the parents be responsible for the childrens actions.
          • David McIntire
            William, I am not so sure that you have much experience in this sort of thing. I have. My wife and I have taken children that run the streets to the mountains,
            Message 5 of 24 , Apr 3, 2002
              William,

              I am not so sure that you have much experience in this
              sort of thing. I have. My wife and I have taken children
              that run the streets to the mountains, camping,
              restuarants, movies, etc. I used to spend some time each
              day making popcorn for neighborhood kids. I have watched
              them grow from early teens to well into adulthood and
              know the pitfalls and tradgedies in their lives.

              That is no big deal because I genuinely like the
              presence of young people. But it is a waste of time
              trying to deal personally with young people whose
              behavior is as out of control as described, even young
              ones. They have severe behavioral problems that can only
              be dealt with through some agency other than individual
              action.

              I only had one experience in that regard with children
              from a family shelter on Park Road a few doors down from
              where we live - and their behavior was not as out of
              control as that described in the previous posts. I tried
              to deal with them but the only thing that happened was
              that they went through our house like theives and I lost
              enough money that it hurt - some were as young as six or
              seven. One should not try to deal as an individual with
              children, or adults for that matter, when their behavior
              is out of control. All that it will get you is trouble.

              Not everything has an ideological solution.

              Dave McIntire

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: William Jordan
              Cc: cpolk@... ; 'David McIntire' ;
              columbia_heights@yahoogroups.com ; 'John Brill'
              Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 12:31 PM
              Subject: Re: [columbia_heights] Re: Silly Season for
              kids

              Caroline,
              Please, don't take Dave's advise in terms of not talking
              to children and giving up. I'm pretty sure a few adults
              and a few evenings can handle this. I'll make myself
              available.

              It is the lack of talking and interaction that makes
              solveable community problems police problems. This is
              and an examble of something I referred to some emails
              ago of persons trying to turn police and city workers
              into "baby sisters" and community buffers. PSA meetings
              will never be a substitute for the hard work of being
              community. What those children need is some very tuff
              community love.

              We/I are going to have to work harder to fill the lack
              of leadership in Columbia Heights and ward 1 in general.
              William

              Caroline Polk wrote:
              I have contacted the police before and will not hesitate
              to do so again if I see the kids acting up. I agree that
              talking to the kids is a waste of time. I wonder if
              anyone has tried talking to their parents.My
              understanding is that John Brill is aware of the
              situation, but I'm sure it's good to let him know about
              these incidents as they happen.

              -----Original Message-----
              From: David McIntire [mailto:mail@...]
              Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 10:45 AM
              To: columbia_heights@yahoogroups.com; John Brill
              Subject: Re: [columbia_heights] Re: Silly Season for
              kids

              Caroline, There is a couple of things you could do. One,
              contact John Brill at Columbia Heights Village. He is
              the full time social services director. He is a member
              of this list and I am directing this email to him.
              Secondly, bring up your concerns at your local PSA
              meeting. Trying to talk to the kids is a waste of time
              and probably counterproductive.
            • William Jordan
              Dave, I just call it the way I see it. Sometimes I m right sometimes I m wrong. I never suggested individual action was the solution, but the response of
              Message 6 of 24 , Apr 3, 2002
                Dave, I just call it the way I see it. Sometimes I'm right sometimes
                I'm wrong. I never suggested individual action was the solution, but
                the response of this thread to problems seems to always be the same.
                Call the police, call the mayor, call the council, rarely do I hear call
                your neighbor
                except for some trival pursuit. Most people don't need a saviour, but a
                neighbor every once and awhile to watch their back.

                William


                David McIntire wrote:

                > William,
                >
                > I am not so sure that you have much experience in this
                > sort of thing. I have. My wife and I have taken children
                > that run the streets to the mountains, camping,
                > restuarants, movies, etc. I used to spend some time each
                > day making popcorn for neighborhood kids. I have watched
                > them grow from early teens to well into adulthood and
                > know the pitfalls and tradgedies in their lives.
                >
                > That is no big deal because I genuinely like the
                > presence of young people. But it is a waste of time
                > trying to deal personally with young people whose
                > behavior is as out of control as described, even young
                > ones. They have severe behavioral problems that can only
                > be dealt with through some agency other than individual
                > action.
                >
                > I only had one experience in that regard with children
                > from a family shelter on Park Road a few doors down from
                > where we live - and their behavior was not as out of
                > control as that described in the previous posts. I tried
                > to deal with them but the only thing that happened was
                > that they went through our house like theives and I lost
                > enough money that it hurt - some were as young as six or
                > seven. One should not try to deal as an individual with
                > children, or adults for that matter, when their behavior
                > is out of control. All that it will get you is trouble.
                >
                > Not everything has an ideological solution.
                >
                > Dave McIntire
                >
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: William Jordan
                > Cc: cpolk@... ; 'David McIntire' ;
                > columbia_heights@yahoogroups.com ; 'John Brill'
                > Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 12:31 PM
                > Subject: Re: [columbia_heights] Re: Silly Season for
                > kids
                >
                > Caroline,
                > Please, don't take Dave's advise in terms of not talking
                > to children and giving up. I'm pretty sure a few adults
                > and a few evenings can handle this. I'll make myself
                > available.
                >
                > It is the lack of talking and interaction that makes
                > solveable community problems police problems. This is
                > and an examble of something I referred to some emails
                > ago of persons trying to turn police and city workers
                > into "baby sisters" and community buffers. PSA meetings
                > will never be a substitute for the hard work of being
                > community. What those children need is some very tuff
                > community love.
                >
                > We/I are going to have to work harder to fill the lack
                > of leadership in Columbia Heights and ward 1 in general.
                > William
                >
                > Caroline Polk wrote:
                > I have contacted the police before and will not hesitate
                > to do so again if I see the kids acting up. I agree that
                > talking to the kids is a waste of time. I wonder if
                > anyone has tried talking to their parents.My
                > understanding is that John Brill is aware of the
                > situation, but I'm sure it's good to let him know about
                > these incidents as they happen.
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: David McIntire [mailto:mail@...]
                > Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 10:45 AM
                > To: columbia_heights@yahoogroups.com; John Brill
                > Subject: Re: [columbia_heights] Re: Silly Season for
                > kids
                >
                > Caroline, There is a couple of things you could do. One,
                > contact John Brill at Columbia Heights Village. He is
                > the full time social services director. He is a member
                > of this list and I am directing this email to him.
                > Secondly, bring up your concerns at your local PSA
                > meeting. Trying to talk to the kids is a waste of time
                > and probably counterproductive.
              • Elizabeth McIntire
                The kids are obviously neglected . But what they are saying reflects the attitudes of adults around them. I would love to believe that neighborly intervention
                Message 7 of 24 , Apr 3, 2002
                  The kids are obviously neglected . But what they are
                  saying reflects the attitudes of adults around them.

                  I would love to believe that neighborly intervention
                  would turn them around, but it can not work on an
                  individual basis.
                  William has said he's on call, take him at his word, but
                  I think he might find he needs " the village" , not only
                  Columbia Heights Village, behind him. The same with
                  parents , they are likely out of control as well, since
                  they are not paying attention to their children running
                  wild.

                  I remember several years ago when "Little Ant"(Anthony)
                  was out of control. He was offended when a neighbor told
                  him he could not use the apartment building where she
                  lives(he didn't) to cut through from Park Rd to Monroe
                  St. She would not open the door. He made a horrible
                  stink. Several neighbors turned out to support the
                  first, the police were called and responded poorly. Next
                  day his Uncle shows up, mad at the neighbors, no
                  direction to the child. Within weeks, Ant was shot dead
                  by another child, at Monroe and 14th. Sticking together
                  is fine, loyalty is fine, but this is dangerous behavior
                  and will require concerted , consistent effort .The mind
                  your own business ethic isolates everyone.

                  Kids are still kids,and we have to believe they can
                  still be reached. It would be too desolate otherwise.
                  The first point of contact should be Columbia Heights
                  Village, and the parents.Then an examination of youth
                  programs, that must not be working. Then consideration
                  of an organized context where children, parents, and
                  concerned residents can get together and make something
                  different happen.

                  Elizabeth McIntire


                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "ckriegwcl" <ckriegwcl@...>
                  To: <columbia_heights@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 9:30 AM
                  Subject: [columbia_heights] Re: Silly Season for kids


                  Well, it's "silly season" on 15th St., too. A bunch of
                  boys, 8-10
                  years old tried to follow me into my apartment building
                  last night, I
                  don't know why.....just hijinx, I guess. When the
                  security door shut
                  them out, they started to bang on the door and throw
                  themselves
                  against the glass and windows. (There are no children
                  living in the
                  building so they weren't residents). I told them to
                  knock it off and
                  move along. This only got them going more, and then I
                  found myself
                  being called a "white bitch" amonst other charming
                  epithets by a
                  bunch of little kids. Rather then yell back, I tried to
                  defuse the
                  situation by appealing to reason, "Why are you behaving
                  this way? I
                  know you know better..." type of thing. No effect, more
                  insults.
                  I told them if they didn't move along I was going to go
                  upstairs and
                  get my husband (not that I enjoy having to threaten a
                  bunch of little
                  kids with my big, bad husband.....) So, I go upstairs
                  and my husband
                  leans off the balcony and asks the kids what's going on?
                  They then
                  start jumping all over a parked motorcycle and some
                  cars - totally
                  out of control...one of them threatened to "shoot us".
                  These were
                  little kids - it was ridiculous. I'm not going to
                  insult a kid and
                  I really don't want to call the cops on a bunch of 8
                  year olds. One
                  of my neighbors who also saw them, said they've also
                  been hanging out
                  in Malcolm "X" park throwing rocks at passing traffic.

                  Anyone have any ideas on how to discourage this type of
                  behaviour?
                  It's really depressing...whatever happened to minding
                  your neighbors
                  kids? There were certainly other adults out and about,
                  I can't
                  believe no one else said anything to them.

                  >
                • J. Thomas
                  Since I ve been a commissioner, I ve been invited into the homes of many of my neighbors, and I ve been able to see firsthand the interaction that takes place
                  Message 8 of 24 , Apr 3, 2002
                    Since I've been a commissioner, I've been invited into the homes of many of
                    my neighbors, and I've been able to see firsthand the interaction that takes place
                    between parents and their children.  They could have good kids, or bad kids, but
                    often enough the parent(S) will yell at them, rather than explain things to them.
                     
                    As a big, black man, I may not be as prone to the hostility that Caroline
                    is describing in her post.  I'll walk anywhere around here, and the only thing
                    I ever get from kids is never more than an strange stare.  And yeah, oddly
                    enough, I'm am that guy who will approach the parents about the children
                    littering, even if they're standing there watching them litter in front of the
                    house.
                     
                    I think I understand the point William is trying to make about leadership.  After I
                    have said something to their parents about a kids behaviour,  then I feel as a
                    neighbor, I can take my own action.  When I catch them doing it again, I will yell,
                    but I also will explain why they shouldn't throw their potato chip wrapper in the treebox
                    when I'm done yelling.  The next time I see them, I'll extend a dap, or
                    a hello. 
                     
                    You may not agree with my methods, but it works sometimes.  Not all of the time
                    though.  Some people think yelling is dysfunctional, but sometimes the kids don't
                    understand anything else.  Some think that explaining is lost cause also.
                    Maybe a babysitter is the way to go.  
                     
                    I need a job.  Anyone willing pay me to babysit their kids?
                     
                    FJ 
                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: David McIntire [mailto:mail@...]
                    Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 3:34 PM
                    To: William Jordan
                    Cc: columbia_heights@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [columbia_heights] Re: Silly Season for kids

                    William,

                    I am not so sure that you have much experience in this
                    sort of thing. I have. My wife and I have taken children
                    that run the streets to the mountains, camping,
                    restuarants, movies, etc. I used to spend some time each
                    day making popcorn for neighborhood kids. I have watched
                    them grow from early teens to well into adulthood and
                    know the pitfalls and tradgedies in their lives.

                    That is no big deal because I genuinely like the
                    presence of young people. But it is a waste of time
                    trying to deal personally with young people whose
                    behavior is as out of control as described, even young
                    ones. They have severe behavioral problems that can only
                    be dealt with through some agency other than individual
                    action.

                    I only had one experience in that regard with children
                    from a family shelter on Park Road a few doors down from
                    where we live - and their behavior was not as out of
                    control as that described in the previous posts. I tried
                    to deal with them but the only thing that happened was
                    that they went through our house like theives and I lost
                    enough money that it hurt - some were as young as six or
                    seven. One should not try to deal as an individual with
                    children, or adults for that matter, when their behavior
                    is out of control. All that it will get you is trouble.

                    Not everything has an ideological solution.

                    Dave McIntire

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: William Jordan
                    Cc: cpolk@... ; 'David McIntire' ;
                    columbia_heights@yahoogroups.com ; 'John Brill'
                    Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 12:31 PM
                    Subject: Re: [columbia_heights] Re: Silly Season for
                    kids

                    Caroline,
                    Please, don't take Dave's advise in terms of not talking
                    to children and giving up.  I'm pretty sure a few adults
                    and a few evenings can handle this. I'll make myself
                    available.

                    It is the lack of talking and interaction that makes
                    solveable community problems police problems.  This is
                    and an examble of something I referred to some emails
                    ago of persons trying to turn police and city workers
                    into "baby sisters" and community buffers.  PSA meetings
                    will never be a substitute for the hard work of being
                    community.  What those children need is some very tuff
                    community love.

                    We/I are going to have to work harder to fill the lack
                    of leadership in Columbia Heights and ward 1 in general.
                    William

                    Caroline Polk wrote:
                    I have contacted the police before and will not hesitate
                    to do so again if I see the kids acting up. I agree that
                    talking to the kids is a waste of time. I wonder if
                    anyone has tried talking to their parents.My
                    understanding is that John Brill is aware of the
                    situation, but I'm sure it's good to let him know about
                    these incidents as they happen.

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: David McIntire [mailto:mail@...]
                    Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 10:45 AM
                    To: columbia_heights@yahoogroups.com; John Brill
                    Subject: Re: [columbia_heights] Re: Silly Season for
                    kids

                    Caroline, There is a couple of things you could do. One,
                    contact John Brill at Columbia Heights Village. He is
                    the full time social services director. He is a member
                    of this list and I am directing this email to him.
                    Secondly, bring up your concerns at your local PSA
                    meeting. Trying to talk to the kids is a waste of time
                    and probably counterproductive.




                    URL to this page on the web: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/columbia_heights/


                    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                  • William Jordan
                    Elizabeth, I expect the village to be there. Neighbor implies group intervention not some lone ranger who fixes everything while you ride off into the sunset.
                    Message 9 of 24 , Apr 4, 2002
                      Elizabeth,

                      I expect the village to be there. Neighbor implies group intervention not some
                      lone ranger who fixes everything while you ride off into the sunset. In fact if
                      we address these children and I find you all behind me and not beside me, I will
                      join them in terrorizing you. And you may find me calling you some unpleasant
                      names.

                      I am suggesting persons integrate themselves in to the village beyond their own
                      little clans. And believe me that is not easy work and it does not happen over
                      night. Sometimes it takes years.

                      I have lived in Columbia Heights both as a college student and as a family man
                      for most of the last 18 years. Most of the time it as been a positive and
                      enjoyable experience. That as been because I have had good neighbors. Not that
                      we have not had serious run ins, disputes and misunderstandings. Not that I
                      have not been bothered by loud music, crime, trash, out of control children and
                      adults. But becuase of my neighbors I knew overall things would be OK. I can't
                      count the times when neighbors that I know well and hardly know have bailed me
                      out of situations. And I have am not always a good neighbor and even then my
                      neighbors have helped me be a better neighbor. Being a good neighbor requires
                      work and taking a risk. Those are prerequists, not some higher calling.

                      Most of us are familiar with the story of the "Good Samaritan", which was a
                      parable told to answer the question, "who is my neighbor", in response to the
                      statement to "lover your neighbor as yourself". But the question that really
                      needs to be answered is not "Who is my neighbor", but "Whose neighbor am I". In
                      other words who am I willing to be a neighbor to.

                      Speaking of out of control children terroring the neighborhood, I see that the
                      next ANC meeting is going to address the Grid and Tivoli parcels. I only hope I
                      can distinguish the usual out of control behavior and name calling surrounding
                      this issue from that of the 8 yearold's street gang. What we should do is get
                      CHV to bring the children so they can watch and learn how neighbors living and
                      working in a community should interact with one another.

                      William


                      Elizabeth McIntire wrote:

                      > The kids are obviously neglected . But what they are
                      > saying reflects the attitudes of adults around them.
                      >
                      > I would love to believe that neighborly intervention
                      > would turn them around, but it can not work on an
                      > individual basis.
                      > William has said he's on call, take him at his word, but
                      > I think he might find he needs " the village" , not only
                      > Columbia Heights Village, behind him. The same with
                      > parents , they are likely out of control as well, since
                      > they are not paying attention to their children running
                      > wild.
                      >
                      > I remember several years ago when "Little Ant"(Anthony)
                      > was out of control. He was offended when a neighbor told
                      > him he could not use the apartment building where she
                      > lives(he didn't) to cut through from Park Rd to Monroe
                      > St. She would not open the door. He made a horrible
                      > stink. Several neighbors turned out to support the
                      > first, the police were called and responded poorly. Next
                      > day his Uncle shows up, mad at the neighbors, no
                      > direction to the child. Within weeks, Ant was shot dead
                      > by another child, at Monroe and 14th. Sticking together
                      > is fine, loyalty is fine, but this is dangerous behavior
                      > and will require concerted , consistent effort .The mind
                      > your own business ethic isolates everyone.
                      >
                      > Kids are still kids,and we have to believe they can
                      > still be reached. It would be too desolate otherwise.
                      > The first point of contact should be Columbia Heights
                      > Village, and the parents.Then an examination of youth
                      > programs, that must not be working. Then consideration
                      > of an organized context where children, parents, and
                      > concerned residents can get together and make something
                      > different happen.
                      >
                      > Elizabeth McIntire
                      >
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: "ckriegwcl" <ckriegwcl@...>
                      > To: <columbia_heights@yahoogroups.com>
                      > Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 9:30 AM
                      > Subject: [columbia_heights] Re: Silly Season for kids
                      >
                      > Well, it's "silly season" on 15th St., too. A bunch of
                      > boys, 8-10
                      > years old tried to follow me into my apartment building
                      > last night, I
                      > don't know why.....just hijinx, I guess. When the
                      > security door shut
                      > them out, they started to bang on the door and throw
                      > themselves
                      > against the glass and windows. (There are no children
                      > living in the
                      > building so they weren't residents). I told them to
                      > knock it off and
                      > move along. This only got them going more, and then I
                      > found myself
                      > being called a "white bitch" amonst other charming
                      > epithets by a
                      > bunch of little kids. Rather then yell back, I tried to
                      > defuse the
                      > situation by appealing to reason, "Why are you behaving
                      > this way? I
                      > know you know better..." type of thing. No effect, more
                      > insults.
                      > I told them if they didn't move along I was going to go
                      > upstairs and
                      > get my husband (not that I enjoy having to threaten a
                      > bunch of little
                      > kids with my big, bad husband.....) So, I go upstairs
                      > and my husband
                      > leans off the balcony and asks the kids what's going on?
                      > They then
                      > start jumping all over a parked motorcycle and some
                      > cars - totally
                      > out of control...one of them threatened to "shoot us".
                      > These were
                      > little kids - it was ridiculous. I'm not going to
                      > insult a kid and
                      > I really don't want to call the cops on a bunch of 8
                      > year olds. One
                      > of my neighbors who also saw them, said they've also
                      > been hanging out
                      > in Malcolm "X" park throwing rocks at passing traffic.
                      >
                      > Anyone have any ideas on how to discourage this type of
                      > behaviour?
                      > It's really depressing...whatever happened to minding
                      > your neighbors
                      > kids? There were certainly other adults out and about,
                      > I can't
                      > believe no one else said anything to them.
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      > URL to this page on the web: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/columbia_heights/
                      >
                      >
                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    • tmosley123@aol.com
                      like i say every time, it s the role models that surround our youth. these youth call women fucking white bitch because they hear it at home, on the street,
                      Message 10 of 24 , Apr 4, 2002

                        like i say every time, it's the role models that surround our youth.

                        these youth call women "fucking white bitch" because they hear it at home, on the street, in music, and at the movies.  i've been in conversations (even recently about gentrification) that supposed leaders in our community (and i won't name names today but reserve the right to do so later) say the same offensive and bigoted sentiments but have the diction to cloak it.

                        children are just more honest about their feelings.  they tell it like it is.  i remember the guilt i felt when i was sassy as a child to an adult and a teacher told me that it reflected on my parents and how they were raising me.  that specific event (and the scare that guilt left) probably is with me today ... and in a large way, that teacher was right.  i rarely if ever smarted off to an adult again.

                        nothing will change until our culture changes and what we deem acceptable changes.  like william said, "the next ANC meeting is going to address the Grid and Tivoli parcels.  i only hope i can distinguish the usual out of control behavior and name calling surrounding this issue from that of the 8 year old's street gang."

                        we must take care of our children, create steadfast rules for them to follow, and give them unconditional love (even when they are little pains in the ass).  but most of all, WE must act like what we expect them to act like !!!

                      • Evette McDowell
                        Hi Caroline, I ve read your message and I feel the best action for you to take is to go to Columbia Heights Village management offfice and talk to them and the
                        Message 11 of 24 , Apr 4, 2002
                          Hi Caroline,
                          I've read your message and I feel the best action for you to take is to go to Columbia Heights Village management offfice and talk to them and the parents so that they can become aware of what's going on.
                                 
                          I live here in Columbia Heights and I am apart of the Tenants
                          Association we are now aware of the problem ad I would like
                          for you to respond to the office/Tenants Association because we do have a responsibility to our youth and their behavior.  The manager you need to contact is Debbie Miller
                          and her number is 234-6900.
                           
                                                                      Thank You,
                           
                                                                      Evette McDowell
                           
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 9:59 AM
                          Subject: RE: [columbia_heights] Re: Silly Season for kids

                          "Silly season" my ass. The people creating trouble aren't just "being silly"--they are more often than not disturbing the peace, breaking glass, or just generally being bad citizens.
                           
                          Re: the kids, I think this is the same group who threw a brick at me in the 1400 block of Harvard street in February (I was ringing a doorbell, which provoked them for some reason), whom I saw throwing rocks at cars in the 1300 block of Irving street yesterday evening, and who have called me "white bitch" as well, along with other choice names. There are around 7 of them, and they all appear to be under age 11. My partner has also been harassed by them. They live in and around Columbia Heights village. I believe one of them is named Simon and lives at 1345 Harvard (I got the information from the police, whom I called after I got the brick thrown at me.) The kids do not respond to the usual tricks that adults use to control unruly children. It's a little Clockwork-Orangeish.
                           
                          It infuriates me that these children are known to the community and have been causing trouble for well over a year, yet nothing has happened. The folks running the youth groups at Columbia Heights Village and the other social service organizations in the area seem impotent.  Someone needs to do something--these kids are headed for bigger trouble. Part of me feels sorry for them that they are so young yet so messed up. Another part of me can't wait until some less patient adult smacks the shit out of them.
                           
                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: ckriegwcl [mailto:ckriegwcl@...]
                          Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 9:30 AM
                          To: columbia_heights@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: [columbia_heights] Re: Silly Season for kids

                          Well, it's "silly season"  on 15th St., too.  A bunch of boys, 8-10
                          years old tried to follow me into my apartment building last night, I
                          don't know why.....just hijinx, I guess. When the security door shut
                          them out, they started to bang on the door and throw themselves
                          against the glass and windows.  (There are no children living in the
                          building so they weren't residents).  I told them to knock it off and
                          move along.  This only got them going more, and then I found myself
                          being called a "white bitch" amonst other charming epithets by a
                          bunch of little kids.  Rather then yell back, I tried to defuse the
                          situation by appealing to reason, "Why are you behaving this way?  I
                          know you know better..." type of thing.  No effect, more insults.
                          I told them if they didn't move along I was going to go upstairs and
                          get my husband (not that I enjoy having to threaten a bunch of little
                          kids with my big, bad husband.....) So, I go upstairs and my husband
                          leans off the balcony and asks the kids what's going on?  They then
                          start jumping all over a parked motorcycle and some cars - totally
                          out of control...one of them threatened to "shoot us".  These were
                          little kids - it was ridiculous.  I'm not going to insult a kid and 
                          I really don't want to call the cops on a bunch of 8 year olds.  One
                          of my neighbors who also saw them, said they've also been hanging out
                          in Malcolm "X" park throwing rocks at passing traffic. 

                          Anyone have any ideas on how to discourage this type of behaviour? 
                          It's really depressing...whatever happened to minding your neighbors
                          kids?  There were certainly other adults out and about, I can't
                          believe no one else said anything to them. 


                          --- In columbia_heights@y..., "David McIntire" <mail@i...> wrote:
                          > If the locals can't do it bring in the Feds. There was
                          > also an incident of the ATF chasing someone on a bicycle
                          > on Hiatt Place last night. It was exciting and better
                          > than most TV. It is spring which tends to be the silly
                          > season here on Park Rd. and Hiatt Place. I turn off the
                          > TV (and computer) and spend many evenings watching the
                          > passing scene on Park Rd.
                          >
                          > Dave McIntire
                          >
                          > ------------------------------
                          > Shots Near Crowd Spur Call for Probe
                          > NW Incident Involves Secret Service
                          > By Petula Dvorak
                          > Washington Post Staff Writer
                          > Wednesday, April 3, 2002; Page B03
                          >
                          >
                          > D.C. Council member Jim Graham has asked the U.S. Secret
                          > Service to investigate an incident last month in which
                          > two of its officers opened fire outside a busy Adams
                          > Morgan night spot because a machete-wielding man refused
                          > to drop his knife.
                          >
                          > Graham (D-Ward 1), who said he has been agonizing over a
                          > recent spate of violence in his diverse district, asked
                          > for a probe after several eyewitnesses gave him markedly
                          > different accounts of the March 24 incident.
                          >
                          > "This is beginning to feel like Dodge City," Graham said
                          > recently, referring to the Secret Service and other
                          > shootings in his ward. "What am I, the sheriff?"
                          >
                          > The service initially said that an officer fired a
                          > warning shot after seeing a man standing in the street
                          > outside Chief Ike's Mambo Room, at 1725 Columbia Rd. NW,
                          > arguing with another man and holding a long-bladed
                          > knife.
                          >
                          > Eyewitnesses disputed that account, and Jim Mackin, a
                          > spokesman for the Secret Service, later said that two
                          > officers fired a total of three warning shots.
                          >
                          > Jeff Simpson, a University of Maryland graduate student
                          > who watched the 2:30 a.m. incident unfold, said the
                          > officers fired into a crowd of onlookers without
                          > warning.
                          >
                          > "Without identifying themselves, without verbal warning
                          > to either man, without warning shots and without
                          > hesitation, the officers drew their guns, aimed and
                          > fired three shots in total," said Simpson, 30, who was
                          > leaving the bar with several friends.
                          >
                          > Simpson said the man with the knife was not threatening
                          > the crowd outside.
                          >
                          > "It was a long knife, definitely something like a
                          > machete," he said. "But he was holding it raised, no
                          > thrusts or swipes, and he was arguing in the middle of
                          > the street with another guy. Then, all of a sudden,
                          > shots were fired."
                          >
                          > The bullets, which were fired toward the man with knife,
                          > shattered a storefront window and lodged in two cars
                          > near the crowd, Simpson said. The officers had dark
                          > uniforms and badges, and he had not seen them arrive.
                          > Later, he said, he noticed that a Secret Service car had
                          > crashed into a parked car.
                          >
                          > Mark Hurley, 32, another witness, said his biggest
                          > concern was that civilians who did not see the officers
                          > arrive had no warning to duck from the gunfire.
                          >
                          > "I want to know why they just started shooting without
                          > warning all the other people there," he said. "We were
                          > all in the line of fire."
                          >
                          > Graham sent his letter to the Secret Service's
                          > Washington field office Monday. "Based on accounts of
                          > eyewitnesses, it appears that the police shootings may
                          > have lacked justification and may have endangered other
                          > persons who were bystanders," he wrote.
                          >
                          > Mackin said the officers were responding to a report
                          > alerting them to a man wielding a machete in the street
                          > and arrived at the scene expecting danger.
                          >
                          > "They came because a citizen flagged them down," he
                          > said.
                          >
                          > The man with the machete was later arrested.
                          >
                          > Several shootings have occurred in Graham's district in
                          > the past month. Among them are the wounding of a
                          > 16-year-old as she sat in her boyfriend's car and other
                          > shootings that D.C. police suspect are gang-related.
                          >
                          > Recent legislation gives local police powers to federal
                          > agencies working in the region, so it was within the
                          > officers' jurisdiction to respond.
                          >
                          > Mackin, who said the two officers remain on duty, said
                          > Graham's request for an investigation was unnecessary.
                          > "Any time a weapon is discharged, whether it's one, two,
                          > three shots or more, there is a routine inquiry," Mackin
                          > said.
                          >
                          > Graham said the last thing he wants is to chase
                          > uniformed officers from his ward.
                          >
                          > "I need police; we want police," he said. "But if it's
                          > true that we have police officers shooting across a busy
                          > street without identifying themselves, that's a
                          > draconian reaction to a quarrel."
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > © 2002 The Washington Post Company



                          URL to this page on the web: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/columbia_heights/


                          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


                          URL to this page on the web: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/columbia_heights/


                          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                        • Elizabeth McIntire
                          William and Todd, I agree. The example of adults is critical. We have a chance, locally, to offer an alternative example to the prevailing culture. Until we
                          Message 12 of 24 , Apr 4, 2002
                            William and Todd,
                             
                            I agree. The example of adults is critical. We have a chance, locally, to offer an alternative example to the prevailing culture.
                            Until we collectively realize that there is so much energy that may be tapped by working together, for a common interest, that is now wasted on defending limited interest, there won't be much progress. And there are some who will continue to favor isolation, to their detriment. Those who insist that who you look like is more important than who you are, for example, as well as those whose primary interest, shall we say, is property rather than people.
                             
                            Perceptions and stereotypes are reinforced by inflammatory language. The example of individuals is important, and there will be different ideas, but I don't know anyone who would say they don't respect a person with integrity - keeping to their principles.
                             
                            As far as beside/behind, I was envisioning such a gathering of people that there would be more than just a front line. But the choice of words
                            may reflect more. If you are talking about leadership, we need more of that. Those are the ones who will be in front. We also need more community involvement by everybody, representing personal investment (time,not money).
                             
                            Elizabeth McIntire
                             
                             
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 8:01 AM
                            Subject: Re: [columbia_heights] Re: Silly Season for kids


                            like i say every time, it's the role models that surround our youth.

                            these youth call women "fucking white bitch" because they hear it at home, on the street, in music, and at the movies.  i've been in conversations (even recently about gentrification) that supposed leaders in our community (and i won't name names today but reserve the right to do so later) say the same offensive and bigoted sentiments but have the diction to cloak it.

                            children are just more honest about their feelings.  they tell it like it is.  i remember the guilt i felt when i was sassy as a child to an adult and a teacher told me that it reflected on my parents and how they were raising me.  that specific event (and the scare that guilt left) probably is with me today ... and in a large way, that teacher was right.  i rarely if ever smarted off to an adult again.

                            nothing will change until our culture changes and what we deem acceptable changes.  like william said, "the next ANC meeting is going to address the Grid and Tivoli parcels.  i only hope i can distinguish the usual out of control behavior and name calling surrounding this issue from that of the 8 year old's street gang."

                            we must take care of our children, create steadfast rules for them to follow, and give them unconditional love (even when they are little pains in the ass).  but most of all, WE must act like what we expect them to act like !!!



                            URL to this page on the web: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/columbia_heights/


                            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                          • David McIntire
                            William, Here you go. The management at Columbia Heights Village and the tenants union know about the situation, know the kids and are willing to engage in
                            Message 13 of 24 , Apr 4, 2002
                              William,

                              Here you go. The management at Columbia Heights Village
                              and the tenants union know about the situation, know the
                              kids and are willing to engage in solving the problem.
                              The affected neighbors obviously want to do something. I
                              am a Board Member at Columbia Heights Village and quite
                              willing to help in any small way that I can.

                              You have expressed an interest in being the point
                              person.

                              Time to act! Call Debbie Miller at 234-8900, as
                              suggested by resident and tenants association member
                              Evette McDowell, and set something up.

                              Dave McIntire

                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: "William Jordan" <whj@...>
                              Cc: "Elizabeth McIntire" <elizabeth@...>;
                              "Columbia Heights" <columbia_heights@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 7:24 AM
                              Subject: Re: [columbia_heights] Re: Silly Season for
                              kids


                              > Elizabeth,
                              >
                              > I expect the village to be there. Neighbor implies
                              group intervention not some
                              > lone ranger who fixes everything while you ride off
                              into the sunset. In fact if
                              > we address these children and I find you all behind me
                              and not beside me, I will
                              > join them in terrorizing you. And you may find me
                              calling you some unpleasant
                              > names.
                              >
                              > I am suggesting persons integrate themselves in to the
                              village beyond their own
                              > little clans. And believe me that is not easy work and
                              it does not happen over
                              > night. Sometimes it takes years.
                              >
                              > I have lived in Columbia Heights both as a college
                              student and as a family man
                              > for most of the last 18 years. Most of the time it as
                              been a positive and
                              > enjoyable experience. That as been because I have had
                              good neighbors. Not that
                              > we have not had serious run ins, disputes and
                              misunderstandings. Not that I
                              > have not been bothered by loud music, crime, trash,
                              out of control children and
                              > adults. But becuase of my neighbors I knew overall
                              things would be OK. I can't
                              > count the times when neighbors that I know well and
                              hardly know have bailed me
                              > out of situations. And I have am not always a good
                              neighbor and even then my
                              > neighbors have helped me be a better neighbor. Being a
                              good neighbor requires
                              > work and taking a risk. Those are prerequists, not
                              some higher calling.
                              >
                              > Most of us are familiar with the story of the "Good
                              Samaritan", which was a
                              > parable told to answer the question, "who is my
                              neighbor", in response to the
                              > statement to "lover your neighbor as yourself". But
                              the question that really
                              > needs to be answered is not "Who is my neighbor", but
                              "Whose neighbor am I". In
                              > other words who am I willing to be a neighbor to.
                              >
                              > Speaking of out of control children terroring the
                              neighborhood, I see that the
                              > next ANC meeting is going to address the Grid and
                              Tivoli parcels. I only hope I
                              > can distinguish the usual out of control behavior and
                              name calling surrounding
                              > this issue from that of the 8 yearold's street gang.
                              What we should do is get
                              > CHV to bring the children so they can watch and learn
                              how neighbors living and
                              > working in a community should interact with one
                              another.
                              >
                              > William
                              >
                              >
                            • Caroline Polk
                              I have spoken with the folks at the Columbia Heights/Shaw Family Support Collaborative, and they have offered to facilitate a process for addressing the
                              Message 14 of 24 , Apr 5, 2002
                                I have spoken with the folks at the Columbia Heights/Shaw Family Support Collaborative, and they have offered to facilitate a process for addressing the situation around the kids. Anyone who is interested in participating, please email me with your contact info by next Friday and I'll pass everyone's name along to the collaborative.
                                 
                                Thanks!
                                 
                                Caroline
                              • lwannemach@aol.com
                                All, I ve only been an interested observer in the community s reaction to the unruly, to say the least, children; but I really have to hand it to the handful
                                Message 15 of 24 , Apr 5, 2002
                                  All,

                                  I've only been an interested observer in the community's reaction to the unruly, to say the least, children; but I really have to hand it to the handful of folks who have responded with action to the needs of these kids.  My hat is off to all of you.

                                  Larry Wannemacher    
                                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.