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Re: [columbia_heights] 13th Street Parking Restriction

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  • MBarlet
    Before you make wild and unfounded assumption of what Most of Columbia Heights wants, you should take the time to read the COUNTLESS letters sent to the RLA,
    Message 1 of 27 , Jun 30, 2001
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      Before you make wild and unfounded assumption of what "Most of
      Columbia Heights" wants, you should take the time to read the
      COUNTLESS letters sent to the RLA, and the testimony as to what
      Columbia Heights wants to see (RLA meetings), as well as the
      Cherrette (Reminder It was sponcered by DCCH) that clearly states
      that one of the "wants" of Columbia Heights is the restoration of the
      Tivoli. You can also read the 1000's of emails that state a contrary
      opinion than your own (all of whom exist). And while I have seen many
      emails from people that support your opinion, only a few are real
      people. The rest are fabrications of the mind.

      I agree that Horning has come a long way from square one, but the
      fact remains, NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO TO "SOUP" UP A YOGO, IT IS STILL
      A YOGO. Hornings proposal is still inferior to the possibilities of
      that parcel, and no matter what they do, it will still be inferior,
      because Horning lacks the money and the where-with-all to build
      anything more than a souped up yogo. (Sorry to offend all yogo
      owners)

      Mark

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    • MBarlet
      Eric, You bring up a great point, and while I know you know this I will state it for the rest of the world. Horning can not break open the walls of the TIVOLI,
      Message 2 of 27 , Jun 30, 2001
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        Eric,

        You bring up a great point, and while I know you know this I will
        state it for the rest of the world.

        Horning can not break open the walls of the TIVOLI, because all of
        them are historic, Horning reworked their plan to comply with the
        law. So it is very easy that they could go forward and build the rest
        of that block, AND NOT MAKE A SINGLE CHANGE TO THE PLAN THEY HAVE.
        But.... They can not do that, WHY you ask. A while back Dave posted
        thecredit rating of Horning, and because of that credit rating NO
        BANK is going to back this project until Horning comes up with money
        first (Almost like a down payment) and guess what, they do not have
        any. So the reason why Horning can't do the job they were hired to
        do, and revisit the Tivoli at the later stages of the project is
        because they NEED the money the city will give for the TIVOLI in
        order to get a bank to give them more money.

        So I have to ask, who is "derailing" this project, in my opinion it
        is the RLA, who choose developers that has poor cash flow, and credit
        rating (GRID has no money as well). This development is 3 times
        larger than any development that Horning have done to date. Horning
        NEEDS the money from the city, because they have NONE of their own. A
        developer that has been taken to court and lost 4 times, because they
        did not pay their bills, I can go on. It makes me wonder, After
        reading the credit report, and visiting the filthy 14th Street Strip
        Center, is this really a company that can be trusted to stick with
        this project for the long haul?

        Now I am not saying that asking for city money is a bad thing, but
        another developer (who's name shall go unspoken) stated that they too
        wanted city money, but had the cash flow and equity to start without
        it, and was not going to stall the project while the mounds of
        paperwork were being done. And yet, we choose to go with someone with
        no money.

        Hey Dave, could you repost the credit report, so we can see why this
        project has not gone forward?

        Mr. Horning, no one, not a single person, is stopping you from
        building that GIANT, So why is it not done yet?

        Mark

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      • vadoniacrawford@netscape.net
        ... To vsigwalt, HERE- HERE!, hooray! I m thanking GOD! It s really wonderful to hear someone say it! I m with you lets move forward..........Bunny -- VADONIA
        Message 3 of 27 , Jul 2, 2001
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          vsigwalt@... wrote:
          >
          > David and Stephen,
          >
          > I don't think your responses to William were completely thought out. He has
          > been posting for a long time so you should have some understanding of his
          > position.  William has applauded Dave for starting this list, has
          > complimented him on its upkeep, and has always pushed for people oriented
          > development.  Anyone who has read his posts knows that he is not for
          > enriching developers, has a healthy skepticism toward the capitalist system,
          > is committed by more than his mouth to diversity, and generally writes in a
          > tone of geniality -- whether he agrees with a particular position or not.
          >
          > I am going to personalize this.  I have noticed a couple of things in the
          > latest CH Development go round.  There was misinformation about the status of
          > the alley closing legislation, there has been confounding of a decades old
          > effort to lift parking restrictions on 13th Street with the size of the giant
          > (because William once in a spirit of friendly rebuke listed my email address
          > as ValgetDaveMcIntire.com, I have to point out that David at one point
          > attacked the Horing/Giant proposal because it was not going to be as large as
          > originally proposed.  God help me for bringing it up but the Forest City
          > proposal called for an even larger grocery store and he used this as point
          > for opposing Horning/Giant.  I wonder if he would have characterized an even
          > larger Forest City grocery as for the convenience of suburbanites?)  I think
          > David said something about facts as the foundation of his information and
          > asked for refutation of his positions.  Hey Dave == you said Grid was dead in
          > the water -- last I heard they are still in negotiation with the city.
          >
          > Back to the point.  It seems to me those in opposition to current plans for
          > development use any and all real or imagined problems/opportunities to
          > subvert plans for development.  Somebody pointed out a long time ago that the
          > way for this community to insure responsible development is to work with
          > developers.  What I have seen this far is obstruction and obfuscation.  Cut
          > it out.  
          >
          > Where do those in opposition come by the effrontery to characterize and
          > "denigrate" (caveat here, caveat here!!!!!  hey this is D.C. -- my meaning is
          > pure Webster) Gala Theater's support of the proposal.  Why do you (those in
          > opposition) suppose that you are a better judge of that particular group's
          > interests.
          >
          > Last statement.  Many of you know that we are leaving Columbia Heights.  We
          > are leaving but I suspect (no I know) we will lurk via the internet.  I think
          > this is important.  Rich and I started Clean Columbia Heights at the
          > beginning of this year.  It was not political so we got to meet people on all
          > sides of the development issue.  Did anybody notice that when Rich did the
          > tongue-in-cheek question about Dave and Forest City that Caroline was the
          > only one who posted noting it was a joke.  Did anybody notice that after the
          > "rats" post, listed under "life in Columbia Heights," Caroline posted a
          > comment about the importance of being able to laugh at each other.  Life is
          > short.  The message is ---- people take time to digress and understand
          > comments of people they have met and worked with.  Lighten up.  


          To vsigwalt,
          HERE- HERE!, hooray! I'm thanking GOD! It's really wonderful to hear someone say it! I'm with you lets move forward..........Bunny
          --
          VADONIA CRAWFORD

          __________________________________________________________________
          Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Webmail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/
        • Richard Layman
          Just out of curiosity, why can t you walk, ride a bike, or take a bus to Metro? This isn t meant to be snide. I am just trying to get a sense of how far
          Message 4 of 27 , Jul 2, 2001
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            Just out of curiosity, why can't you walk, ride a bike, or take a bus to
            Metro? This isn't meant to be snide. I am just trying to get a sense of
            how far people are willing to walk, etc., to go to Metro. I live in the
            Capitol Hill area, and plenty of people walk 5-8 blocks to get to Union
            Station. (I mostly ride a bike to get around the city.)

            Richard Layman


            >From: "W. A. Hopkins" <wahopkins@...>
            >To: columbia_heights@yahoogroups.com
            >Subject: [columbia_heights] 13th Street Parking Restrictions
            >Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 02:56:04 -0000
            >
            >Does anyone know the status of the Mayor's office review of
            >overturning 13th Street parking restrictions? I have not heard or
            >seen anything on this issue since March. It still amazes me that
            >District employees are more worried about the commuting habits of non
            >District residents and non-13th street corridor residents than they
            >are about the residents that live, work, and pay taxes to pay their
            >salaries. It's a shame that there is a subway in Columbia Heights
            >that is not beneficial for my use to go to work because there is no
            >where for me to park my car without risking towing or a ticket.
            >Hopefully the politicians will see the light and make a change that
            >will benefit the residents of the 13th street corridor.
            >

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          • Larry Bellinger
            Those of us who live on 13th Street, NW are held hostage to the needs of commuters from Maryland who SHOULD be on the Metro. Many of us would like to leave our
            Message 5 of 27 , Jul 3, 2001
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              Those of us who live on 13th Street, NW are held hostage to the needs of
              commuters from Maryland who SHOULD be on the Metro. Many of us would like to
              leave our cars at home when we are working but with the various parking
              restrictions it is next to impossible without getting ticketed and/or towed.
              From 7am-930am one cannot park on the southbound side of 13th street; from
              4pm to 630pm one cannot park on the northbound side of 13th street. Yet,
              13th street is categorized as "Unrestricted parking" which means that except
              for those hours listed ANYONE can park on 13th street. That means folks who
              live in the neighborhood but have not registered their cars in DC may park
              on 13th street without worrying about the Zone restrictions. However, if you
              LIVE on 13th street, you must jump through hoops to get a Zone sticker so
              you may park on a side street. You must have everyone in your block sign a
              petition in order to get a Zone sticker.

              So if you walk, ride a bike, or take a bus to Metro you have to make sure
              your car is on the side street (with a ZOne sticker) and (in our area) not
              in a Tuesday-Wednesday 930am-1130am Street Sweeping location or you must
              make sure you are back home before 4pm if your car is on 13th northbound.

              This is why I take my car to work even though work is basically four blocks
              away.

              Larry Belliinger
              2631 13th Street


              -----Original Message-----
              From: Richard Layman [mailto:rllayman@...]
              Sent: Monday, July 02, 2001 6:13 PM
              To: wahopkins@...; columbia_heights@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [columbia_heights] 13th Street Parking Restrictions


              Just out of curiosity, why can't you walk, ride a bike, or take a bus to
              Metro? This isn't meant to be snide. I am just trying to get a sense of
              how far people are willing to walk, etc., to go to Metro. I live in the
              Capitol Hill area, and plenty of people walk 5-8 blocks to get to Union
              Station. (I mostly ride a bike to get around the city.)

              Richard Layman


              >From: "W. A. Hopkins" <wahopkins@...>
              >To: columbia_heights@yahoogroups.com
              >Subject: [columbia_heights] 13th Street Parking Restrictions
              >Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 02:56:04 -0000
              >
              >Does anyone know the status of the Mayor's office review of
              >overturning 13th Street parking restrictions? I have not heard or
              >seen anything on this issue since March. It still amazes me that
              >District employees are more worried about the commuting habits of non
              >District residents and non-13th street corridor residents than they
              >are about the residents that live, work, and pay taxes to pay their
              >salaries. It's a shame that there is a subway in Columbia Heights
              >that is not beneficial for my use to go to work because there is no
              >where for me to park my car without risking towing or a ticket.
              >Hopefully the politicians will see the light and make a change that
              >will benefit the residents of the 13th street corridor.
              >

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            • William H Jordan
              Mark, Here is were your logic is off. One of the keys to development is for the project itself to be sound and credit worthy. Then the developer(s) and
              Message 6 of 27 , Jul 12, 2001
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                Mark,

                Here is were your logic is off. One of the keys to development is for the
                "project" itself to be sound and credit worthy. Then the developer(s) and
                others involved need to have good credit ratings and etc that indicate
                that the project can be completed successfully. In other words lower the
                risk(s) involved in the project.

                If project risks are high for lenders, tax payers, residents and etc the
                quality of the project for all or some are goes down. The challenge is
                that not all parties invloved and affected by the Tivoli Square Project
                measure and understand "risk" in the same way. Most of what you suggest
                raises the "risk" of the project, making it more expensive, increasing the
                likelihood developers, residents and citizens get a less optimal deal.

                From just about any perspective saving the Tivoli in the short term in
                about any form adds risk and costs to the project. The best arguement for
                the Tivoli is in the longer term. I have yet to hear a quality long term
                arguement for the Tivoli backed by more than wishful thinking and
                straining at creating a historical significance for the building.

                Just about all that you suggest adds "risk" therefore expense to the
                project. Reducing the amount of flexibility and increasing the odds that
                the circle this project works well for is smaller and smaller.

                William





                On Sat, 30 Jun 2001, MBarlet wrote:

                > Eric,
                >
                > You bring up a great point, and while I know you know this I will
                > state it for the rest of the world.
                >
                > Horning can not break open the walls of the TIVOLI, because all of
                > them are historic, Horning reworked their plan to comply with the
                > law. So it is very easy that they could go forward and build the rest
                > of that block, AND NOT MAKE A SINGLE CHANGE TO THE PLAN THEY HAVE.
                > But.... They can not do that, WHY you ask. A while back Dave posted
                > thecredit rating of Horning, and because of that credit rating NO
                > BANK is going to back this project until Horning comes up with money
                > first (Almost like a down payment) and guess what, they do not have
                > any. So the reason why Horning can't do the job they were hired to
                > do, and revisit the Tivoli at the later stages of the project is
                > because they NEED the money the city will give for the TIVOLI in
                > order to get a bank to give them more money.
                >
                > So I have to ask, who is "derailing" this project, in my opinion it
                > is the RLA, who choose developers that has poor cash flow, and credit
                > rating (GRID has no money as well). This development is 3 times
                > larger than any development that Horning have done to date. Horning
                > NEEDS the money from the city, because they have NONE of their own. A
                > developer that has been taken to court and lost 4 times, because they
                > did not pay their bills, I can go on. It makes me wonder, After
                > reading the credit report, and visiting the filthy 14th Street Strip
                > Center, is this really a company that can be trusted to stick with
                > this project for the long haul?
                >
                > Now I am not saying that asking for city money is a bad thing, but
                > another developer (who's name shall go unspoken) stated that they too
                > wanted city money, but had the cash flow and equity to start without
                > it, and was not going to stall the project while the mounds of
                > paperwork were being done. And yet, we choose to go with someone with
                > no money.
                >
                > Hey Dave, could you repost the credit report, so we can see why this
                > project has not gone forward?
                >
                > Mr. Horning, no one, not a single person, is stopping you from
                > building that GIANT, So why is it not done yet?
                >
                > Mark
                >
                > __________________________________________________
                > Do You Yahoo!?
                > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail
                > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
                >
                > URL to this page on the web: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/columbia_heights
                >
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >
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