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What will The Meridian Pint be like?

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  • snobored68
    I ll be brief since I m preparing to go canoe the upper Potomac for 2 days, departing at 6am...in 4 hours. Located at 11th & Park, The Pint, as I ve come to
    Message 1 of 13 , Aug 13, 2008
      I'll be brief since I'm preparing to go canoe the upper Potomac for 2
      days, departing at 6am...in 4 hours.

      Located at 11th & Park, The Pint, as I've come to nick name it, will
      be 2 levels. The street level will be very much restaurant/bar
      similar in casualness to Commonwealth Gastro Pub with an open style
      kitchen. We'll offer great food, a casual groove, 25 beers on draft
      and no bottles or cans, plentiful wines and yes, an outdoor seating
      area. Beers will be diverse including cask conditioned as well as the
      occasional gravity poured, firkin. There will be 2 "idiot boxes"
      since I do enjoy sports and I believe few things go better than
      quality beer while watching some football. Certainly not a sports
      bar, just some back ground.

      The basement level will be equal in size and will have both a separate
      entrance and internal connection. The downstairs will have a more
      playful personality and will carry the name "The Joint Chiefs" while
      still serving the same food and beverages. There will be 4 8ft.
      billiard tables, to be rented by the hour, shuffle board, another bar
      and a spacious lounging area with the ability to section off for
      private party/receptions. A ping pong table top will be available for
      covering 1 billiard table for those interested.

      Scheduled opening is based on 3DG's renovation of the building but for
      now I'm hoping for spring of '09.

      That's it in a nut shell.

      John Andrade
      The Meridian Pint
      westcoastin2005@...
    • Marcus Popetz
      ... Woah...sweet. And no bottles/cans is a great enviro choice..thanks for doing that! -mp
      Message 2 of 13 , Aug 14, 2008
        On Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 1:35 AM, snobored68 <lastcall@...> wrote:
        > Beers will be diverse including cask conditioned as well as the
        > occasional gravity poured, firkin.

        Woah...sweet. And no bottles/cans is a great enviro choice..thanks
        for doing that!

        -mp
      • Fritz Faerber
        You didn t say FIRKIN! IT CANNOT BE. WOO HOO. Thought I d have to return to London to get beer like that. So the hand-pump and everything? Please hold 3DG s
        Message 3 of 13 , Aug 14, 2008
          You didn't say FIRKIN! IT CANNOT BE.

          WOO HOO. Thought I'd have to return to London to get beer like that. So the hand-pump
          and everything?

          Please hold 3DG's feet to the fire. Get that baby done!

          I'll have to get a celebrator keg of London Pride in my kegerator to warm up for the arrival.

          Can't wait!

          Not sure if it's even on your radar... but the Six Nations Rugby tournament starts in
          February. Setanta has it in U.S. Bars that get it seem to generate large (well-behaved)
          crowds of Brits, French, Italians, Irish and Scots on Saturdays.


          --- In columbia_heights@yahoogroups.com, "Marcus Popetz" <marcus@...> wrote:
          >
          > On Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 1:35 AM, snobored68 <lastcall@...> wrote:
          > > Beers will be diverse including cask conditioned as well as the
          > > occasional gravity poured, firkin.
          >
          > Woah...sweet. And no bottles/cans is a great enviro choice..thanks
          > for doing that!
          >
          > -mp
          >
        • Fritz Faerber
          You know, it is in human nature to think in a binary fashion. It s either, or. Black or white, yes or no. Day or night. But, real life is more complicated.
          Message 4 of 13 , Aug 14, 2008
            You know, it is in human nature to think in a binary fashion. It's either, or. Black or white,
            yes or no. Day or night.

            But, real life is more complicated. William, I'm totally in favor of youth centers, small, local
            retail, daycare centers, better shools. But having a neighborhood pub open doesn't mean
            losing one of those other options.
            This isn't zero-sum. We can all win.

            Keep up your fight for what you think the neighborhood needs. I, for one, will be happy
            to have a pub serving beer and food i like, while offering a safe place to socialize in the
            evening just a few blocks from my home. I enjoy working out at the WSC in the new retail
            big box center. I have made purchases at Target, Bed Bath and Beyond and radio shack
            without having to get in my car. I'm happy that DC USA opened.

            Development isn't my enemy. Nor are those of you who oppose it. Perhaps, we can all get
            together at Meridian Pint when it's open and find some points of agreement?

            ff

            --- In columbia_heights@yahoogroups.com, William Jordan <whj@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > In general developers will act in their own interests, business owners
            > theirs, and most residents in their individual interest as well
            > political interests; however, like it our not we live in a dense and
            > diverse neighborhood(s)/community(s) and their are some common
            > neighborhood interests. The challenge as never been advocating for
            > our particular interest, but for our common interests. Because of
            > various historic dynamics Columbia Height/Pleasant Plains has/had a
            > unique opportunity to redevelop balancings this various needs and
            > drafted plans to do so. Based on this planning CH was afforded the
            > opportunity to be one of the most pro-development neighborhoods in the
            > city; however, the other side of the deal was city and developers were
            > to invest in the neighborhood infrastrucure of this community and this
            > has not happened effectively. By community or neighborhood
            > infrastructure I mean beyond the token throw-a-ways often brokered on
            > our behalf.
            > It's time for the CH community to stop being pushovers and start
            > demanding serious responses to our needs from officials and etc. If the
            > consensus of this community is to continue to be political and
            > development patsies then so be it, but until I start seeing some serious
            > and appropriate follow-thru I have little interest in the marketing LaLa
            > and tokens.
            >
            > I'm not going to have a developer land bank properties for serveral
            > years, in that time make little to no improvements to the property and
            > then bring in a bar and lecture us about the how this is major
            > improvement over the blight he participated in perpetuating. While at
            > the same time asking the community to give up zoning waivers and
            > claiming that asking for the waivers is doing us a favor.
            >
            > If we are going to have multible bars in an area clearly don't designed
            > for that type of development we should at least aspect to see the
            > public and private infrastructure committments made to support such a
            > development approach. Whether beer is serviced in a glass, bottle or
            > can has little to do with seriously address issues at hand. Demanding
            > serious planning and implementation is not "anti-development" or an
            > aversion to change is being are responsible neighbor.
            >
            > William
            >
          • William Jordan
            In general developers will act in their own interests, business owners theirs, and most residents in their individual interest as well political interests;
            Message 5 of 13 , Aug 14, 2008
              In general developers will act in their own interests, business owners
              theirs, and most residents in their individual interest as well
              political interests; however, like it our not we live in a dense and
              diverse neighborhood(s)/community(s) and their are some common
              neighborhood interests. The challenge as never been advocating for
              our particular interest, but for our common interests. Because of
              various historic dynamics Columbia Height/Pleasant Plains has/had a
              unique opportunity to redevelop balancings this various needs and
              drafted plans to do so. Based on this planning CH was afforded the
              opportunity to be one of the most pro-development neighborhoods in the
              city; however, the other side of the deal was city and developers were
              to invest in the neighborhood infrastrucure of this community and this
              has not happened effectively. By community or neighborhood
              infrastructure I mean beyond the token throw-a-ways often brokered on
              our behalf.
              It's time for the CH community to stop being pushovers and start
              demanding serious responses to our needs from officials and etc. If the
              consensus of this community is to continue to be political and
              development patsies then so be it, but until I start seeing some serious
              and appropriate follow-thru I have little interest in the marketing LaLa
              and tokens.

              I'm not going to have a developer land bank properties for serveral
              years, in that time make little to no improvements to the property and
              then bring in a bar and lecture us about the how this is major
              improvement over the blight he participated in perpetuating. While at
              the same time asking the community to give up zoning waivers and
              claiming that asking for the waivers is doing us a favor.

              If we are going to have multible bars in an area clearly don't designed
              for that type of development we should at least aspect to see the
              public and private infrastructure committments made to support such a
              development approach. Whether beer is serviced in a glass, bottle or
              can has little to do with seriously address issues at hand. Demanding
              serious planning and implementation is not "anti-development" or an
              aversion to change is being are responsible neighbor.

              William
            • William Jordan
              In theory I agree with you, but we don t have that in operation here nor the political will to ensure that it happens. We can all win, but that is not what
              Message 6 of 13 , Aug 14, 2008

                In theory I agree with you, but we don't have that in operation here nor the political will to ensure that it happens.   We can all win, but that is not what is going on.   I really don't mind you and other enjoying the Pub, hell from time to time I might even pass thru thats not the point.  We are in a zero-sum political environment I have documented many times how this dynamic works.  Yet, their is little interest in holding the CM and other accountable, so maybe if we share the pain for poor stewardship of development in this community maybe we can actually make this a win-win.  I've always oppose the anti-development tactics other neighborhoods are forced to use to get community needs met as CH had the opportunity to produces much more  work as partners in development, but for me the much of the goodwill for the partnership approach as been lost.  Reluctantly, I'm close to adopting the approach of other neighbors of  holding good projects hostage in order to ensure community needs and concerns are respected.  If I could I would place a moritorum on new ABC licenses in CH until the B.S. stops.

                You don't seem to understand funds for parks, community centers, improved streetscapes are being purposely traded off, withheld and delayed because some don't want to share public spaces and amenities with "the other" or for petty political gain.   The CM had DPR freeze up at least $2.1M in public space and park investment in CH since at least 2006.   As well through various manuvers blocked/undermined the potential development of at least 2 community centers in Northern Columbia Heights in favor of other development approaches and in both cases had to be force to provide minimum community transparency.  In other cases street furniture is being removed because its easier to do that than invest in the planning, maintianence and pubic safety support needed provide such amenities in Columbia Heights.

                So, I agree it does not have to be binary, but that's how we are allowing things to be structured.  FYI there are plenty of more appropriate near spaces in CH for a wine bar or  pint bar things are not binary both ways.   We have plenty of good places to have a beer or glass now, its the other elements that need your active support now.

                William



                Fritz Faerber wrote:
                You know, it is in human nature to think in a binary fashion. It's either, or. Black or white, 
                yes or no. Day or night. 
                
                But, real life is more complicated. William, I'm totally in favor of youth centers, small, local 
                retail, daycare centers, better shools. But having a neighborhood pub open doesn't mean 
                losing one of those other options. 
                This isn't zero-sum. We can all win. 
                
                Keep up your fight for what you think the neighborhood needs.  I, for one, will be happy 
                to have a pub serving beer and food i like, while offering a safe place to socialize in the 
                evening just a few blocks from my home. I enjoy working out at the WSC in the new retail 
                big box center. I have made purchases at Target, Bed Bath and Beyond and radio shack 
                without having to get in my car. I'm happy that DC USA opened. 
                
                Development isn't my enemy. Nor are those of you who oppose it. Perhaps, we can all get 
                together at Meridian Pint when it's open and find some points of agreement?
                
                ff
                
                --- In columbia_heights@yahoogroups.com, William Jordan <whj@...> wrote:
                  
                In general developers will act in their own interests,  business owners 
                theirs, and most residents in their individual interest as well 
                political interests; however,  like it our not we live in a dense and 
                diverse neighborhood(s)/community(s) and their are some common 
                neighborhood interests.    The challenge as never been advocating for 
                our particular interest, but for our common interests.  Because of 
                various historic dynamics Columbia Height/Pleasant Plains has/had a 
                unique opportunity to redevelop balancings this various needs and 
                drafted plans to do so.  Based on this planning CH was afforded the 
                opportunity to be one of the most pro-development neighborhoods in the 
                city; however, the other side of the deal was city and developers were 
                to invest in the neighborhood infrastrucure of this community and this 
                has not happened effectively.  By community or neighborhood 
                infrastructure I mean beyond the token throw-a-ways  often brokered on 
                our behalf.  
                It's time for the CH community to stop being pushovers and start 
                demanding serious responses to our needs from officials and etc.  If the 
                consensus of this community is to continue to  be political and 
                development patsies then so be it, but until I start seeing some serious 
                and appropriate follow-thru I have little interest in the marketing LaLa 
                and tokens.
                
                I'm not going to have a developer land bank properties for serveral 
                years, in that time make little to no improvements to the property and 
                then bring in a bar and lecture us about the how this is major 
                improvement over the blight he participated in perpetuating.  While at 
                the same time asking the community to give up zoning waivers and 
                claiming that asking for the waivers is doing us a favor.
                
                If we are going to have multible bars in an area clearly don't designed 
                for that type of development  we should at least aspect to see the 
                public and private infrastructure committments made to support such a 
                development approach.  Whether beer is serviced in a glass, bottle or 
                can has little to do with seriously address issues at hand.  Demanding 
                serious planning and implementation is not "anti-development" or an 
                aversion to change is being are responsible neighbor.
                
                William
                
                    
                
                
                
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              • Joel
                Sounds great. Organize a beer pong tournament! ... From: snobored68 Subject: [columbia_heights] What will The Meridian Pint be like?
                Message 7 of 13 , Aug 14, 2008
                  Sounds great. Organize a beer pong tournament!

                  --- On Thu, 8/14/08, snobored68 <lastcall@...> wrote:
                  From: snobored68 <lastcall@...>
                  Subject: [columbia_heights] What will The Meridian Pint be like?
                  To: columbia_heights@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Thursday, August 14, 2008, 1:35 AM

                  I'll be brief since I'm preparing to go canoe the upper Potomac for 2
                  days, departing at 6am...in 4 hours.

                  Located at 11th & Park, The Pint, as I've come to nick name it, will
                  be 2 levels. The street level will be very much restaurant/bar
                  similar in casualness to Commonwealth Gastro Pub with an open style
                  kitchen. We'll offer great food, a casual groove, 25 beers on draft
                  and no bottles or cans, plentiful wines and yes, an outdoor seating
                  area. Beers will be diverse including cask conditioned as well as the
                  occasional gravity poured, firkin. There will be 2 "idiot boxes"
                  since I do enjoy sports and I believe few things go better than
                  quality beer while watching some football. Certainly not a sports
                  bar, just some back ground.

                  The basement level will be equal in size and will have both a separate
                  entrance and internal connection. The downstairs will have a more
                  playful personality and will carry the name "The Joint Chiefs" while
                  still serving the same food and beverages. There will be 4 8ft.
                  billiard tables, to be rented by the hour, shuffle board, another bar
                  and a spacious lounging area with the ability to section off for
                  private party/receptions. A ping pong table top will be available for
                  covering 1 billiard table for those interested.

                  Scheduled opening is based on 3DG's renovation of the building but for
                  now I'm hoping for spring of '09.

                  That's it in a nut shell.

                  John Andrade
                  The Meridian Pint
                  westcoastin2005@ hotmail.com


                • mikemayl728
                  William, Who are you specifically pointing your finger at when you write: I m not going to have a developer land bank properties for serveral years, in that
                  Message 8 of 13 , Aug 15, 2008
                    William,

                    Who are you specifically pointing your finger at when you write:

                    "I'm not going to have a developer land bank properties for serveral
                    years, in that time make little to no improvements to the property and
                    then bring in a bar and lecture us about the how this is major
                    improvement over the blight he participated in perpetuating. While at
                    the same time asking the community to give up zoning waivers and
                    claiming that asking for the waivers is doing us a favor."



                    --- In columbia_heights@yahoogroups.com, William Jordan <whj@...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > In general developers will act in their own interests, business
                    owners
                    > theirs, and most residents in their individual interest as well
                    > political interests; however, like it our not we live in a dense
                    and
                    > diverse neighborhood(s)/community(s) and their are some common
                    > neighborhood interests. The challenge as never been advocating
                    for
                    > our particular interest, but for our common interests. Because of
                    > various historic dynamics Columbia Height/Pleasant Plains has/had a
                    > unique opportunity to redevelop balancings this various needs and
                    > drafted plans to do so. Based on this planning CH was afforded the
                    > opportunity to be one of the most pro-development neighborhoods in
                    the
                    > city; however, the other side of the deal was city and developers
                    were
                    > to invest in the neighborhood infrastrucure of this community and
                    this
                    > has not happened effectively. By community or neighborhood
                    > infrastructure I mean beyond the token throw-a-ways often brokered
                    on
                    > our behalf.
                    > It's time for the CH community to stop being pushovers and start
                    > demanding serious responses to our needs from officials and etc.
                    If the
                    > consensus of this community is to continue to be political and
                    > development patsies then so be it, but until I start seeing some
                    serious
                    > and appropriate follow-thru I have little interest in the marketing
                    LaLa
                    > and tokens.
                    >
                    > I'm not going to have a developer land bank properties for serveral
                    > years, in that time make little to no improvements to the property
                    and
                    > then bring in a bar and lecture us about the how this is major
                    > improvement over the blight he participated in perpetuating. While
                    at
                    > the same time asking the community to give up zoning waivers and
                    > claiming that asking for the waivers is doing us a favor.
                    >
                    > If we are going to have multible bars in an area clearly don't
                    designed
                    > for that type of development we should at least aspect to see the
                    > public and private infrastructure committments made to support such
                    a
                    > development approach. Whether beer is serviced in a glass, bottle
                    or
                    > can has little to do with seriously address issues at hand.
                    Demanding
                    > serious planning and implementation is not "anti-development" or an
                    > aversion to change is being are responsible neighbor.
                    >
                    > William
                    >
                  • William Jordan
                    It s a specific and a composite reference to an approach and attitude which I believe has helped underdeveloped the community and economic development effort
                    Message 9 of 13 , Aug 15, 2008

                      It's a specific and a composite reference to an approach and attitude which I believe has helped underdeveloped  the community and economic development effort in Columbia Heights and Georgia Ave. .  I'm not going to repeat the name of a specific developer because picking on a particular developer is not my purpose here.  However,  in posts some time ago I was very specific.  As well, my point is not solely aimed at developers but the Council Member Graham and others who on behalf of the "community"  misuses the concerns about blight to limit community voices, input and transparency to  steer projects without community input and justifying it as a fight against blight.  Hey, if I were a developer I would probably go along with this if it worked in my favor.

                      But as a related examble let's look at the Old Bruce School.  I the night 90's early 2000s DCPS wanted to rehab the school as swing space to being modernizing local schools.  The CM used his influence to block this usage, so for this and other reasons the building sat for years with nothing being done.  As the market heated up both developer and charter school interest picked up in the site.   At the same time various community members began pushing for an open community planning process for the space as had been done with other publicly owned sites.  The CM agreed that something like this would happen but it never did  make it happen.  Instead, he worked at least 2 deals with minimal public involvement.   He worked for DCPS to transfer the project to a charter school and a second path to have the property made surplus to be sold to a developer all with minimal community input.  Quitely, the property was made surplus as part of the legisation which created the now defunct Anacostia Waterfront Corporation.  Finally, after community pressure there is a community meeting on the site with community consensus for a community center as a key part of the site. In the middle of this Congress Passes a Budget Rider giving charter schools first rights to surplus schools. Then all goes quite.   Eventually, the CM announces the award of the site to the charter school saying this is apart of the fight against blight and crime...  Confusing, yes, but the bottomline is the CM did not want a complete community process on the disposition of this site,  his gaming and delays puts the site into the Congressional Rider basically nullifying the minimal community involvement there was.  Then to justify and get us to accept the highjacking of this community asset, he defaults to well at least this better than having a blighted building.  When it was his gaming this that kept the site offline and blighted..

                      I guess the point of my rant is we are a pro-development community.  However, we deserve to be  inclusive partners in this process.  We no longer need to nor should we accept any kind of  the development , but demand appropriate projects that really help improve this community.  Most of the so called blight left in this community is related to poor stewardship, gaming and highly speculative moves made during a hot market that cooled.  Many of the folk now crying about blight helped to perpetuate the blight by attempting to game the community involvement process.  We should ignore most of the scare talk and require appropriate involvement in ensuring thoughtful development takes place and not allow ourselves to be bullied and/or enticed into any project.   Even if we support a particular project we need to its an appropriate fit.   We need take the time to learn from our own lessons and those around us and just allow ourselves to be captivated by all the happy talk.  

                      William



                      mikemayl728 wrote:
                      William,
                      
                      Who are you specifically pointing your finger at when you write:
                      
                      "I'm not going to have a developer land bank properties for serveral
                      years, in that time make little to no improvements to the property and
                      then bring in a bar and lecture us about the how this is major
                      improvement over the blight he participated in perpetuating. While at
                      the same time asking the community to give up zoning waivers and
                      claiming that asking for the waivers is doing us a favor."
                      
                      
                      
                       --- In columbia_heights@yahoogroups.com, William Jordan <whj@...> 
                      wrote:
                        
                      In general developers will act in their own interests,  business 
                          
                      owners 
                        
                      theirs, and most residents in their individual interest as well 
                      political interests; however,  like it our not we live in a dense 
                          
                      and 
                        
                      diverse neighborhood(s)/community(s) and their are some common 
                      neighborhood interests.    The challenge as never been advocating 
                          
                      for 
                        
                      our particular interest, but for our common interests.  Because of 
                      various historic dynamics Columbia Height/Pleasant Plains has/had a 
                      unique opportunity to redevelop balancings this various needs and 
                      drafted plans to do so.  Based on this planning CH was afforded the 
                      opportunity to be one of the most pro-development neighborhoods in 
                          
                      the 
                        
                      city; however, the other side of the deal was city and developers 
                          
                      were 
                        
                      to invest in the neighborhood infrastrucure of this community and 
                          
                      this 
                        
                      has not happened effectively.  By community or neighborhood 
                      infrastructure I mean beyond the token throw-a-ways  often brokered 
                          
                      on 
                        
                      our behalf.  
                      It's time for the CH community to stop being pushovers and start 
                      demanding serious responses to our needs from officials and etc.  
                          
                      If the 
                        
                      consensus of this community is to continue to  be political and 
                      development patsies then so be it, but until I start seeing some 
                          
                      serious 
                        
                      and appropriate follow-thru I have little interest in the marketing 
                          
                      LaLa 
                        
                      and tokens.
                      
                      I'm not going to have a developer land bank properties for serveral 
                      years, in that time make little to no improvements to the property 
                          
                      and 
                        
                      then bring in a bar and lecture us about the how this is major 
                      improvement over the blight he participated in perpetuating.  While 
                          
                      at 
                        
                      the same time asking the community to give up zoning waivers and 
                      claiming that asking for the waivers is doing us a favor.
                      
                      If we are going to have multible bars in an area clearly don't 
                          
                      designed 
                        
                      for that type of development  we should at least aspect to see the 
                      public and private infrastructure committments made to support such 
                          
                      a 
                        
                      development approach.  Whether beer is serviced in a glass, bottle 
                          
                      or 
                        
                      can has little to do with seriously address issues at hand.  
                          
                      Demanding 
                        
                      serious planning and implementation is not "anti-development" or an 
                      aversion to change is being are responsible neighbor.
                      
                      William
                      
                          
                      
                      
                      ------------------------------------
                      
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                    • mikemayl728
                      Attacking a composite is the use of generalities. The strawman you re creating is one representation but it s not fully informed about every developer and
                      Message 10 of 13 , Aug 17, 2008
                        Attacking a composite is the use of generalities. The strawman
                        you're creating is one representation but it's not fully informed
                        about every developer and transaction that has taken place. You'd
                        have to be a mind reader to know what's in the minds of urban
                        developers.

                        You're expressing an opinion. Learned as it may be, it's an
                        opinion. Like many opinions, it has it merits and you are entitled
                        to it and the right to fight for its defense. But your phase that all
                        developers, (the composite developers) "land bank" is misleading and
                        not the real world. Speculators are not in for the long haul – they
                        want in and out fast – and land banking is not a good option for them
                        because of the risk.

                        There are other scenarios that are just as valid as yours that do not
                        characterize all land developers as robber barons. Unless a developer
                        is extremely wealthy and wants to bankroll speculations on
                        properties, they go to investors and lenders for funding.
                        Investors/Bankers want real plans that show the investments as
                        sound. They want to know why they should supply three times the
                        value of an abandoned blight to someone with a vision and a track
                        record. What good and profit will come of it? This is what people
                        in the lending business ask and have to be convinced of. For the
                        developer, it takes time to draw up plans, get approvals, permits,
                        get passed William Jordan, find tenants, build it, open it for
                        business and all the while, make interest payments on the loan.
                        Sometimes, the deals fall apart and focal point of the dream has to
                        cut their losses. Developers are risk takers.

                        It's my opinion which is just a valid as yours and just as informed.
                        Without these risk takers, Columbia Heights would not have the
                        benefit of a resurgence.

                        Please keep writing all those wonderful opinions. I find them very
                        entertaining.


                        --- In columbia_heights@yahoogroups.com, William Jordan <whj@...>
                        wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > It's a specific and a composite reference to an approach and
                        attitude
                        > which I believe has helped underdeveloped the community and
                        economic
                        > development effort in Columbia Heights and Georgia Ave. . I'm not
                        going
                        > to repeat the name of a specific developer because picking on a
                        > particular developer is not my purpose here. However, in posts
                        some
                        > time ago I was very specific. As well, my point is not solely
                        aimed at
                        > developers but the Council Member Graham and others who on behalf
                        of the
                        > "community" misuses the concerns about blight to limit community
                        > voices, input and transparency to steer projects without community
                        > input and justifying it as a fight against blight. Hey, if I were
                        a
                        > developer I would probably go along with this if it worked in my
                        favor.
                        >
                        > But as a related examble let's look at the Old Bruce School. I the
                        > night 90's early 2000s DCPS wanted to rehab the school as swing
                        space to
                        > being modernizing local schools. The CM used his influence to
                        block
                        > this usage, so for this and other reasons the building sat for
                        years
                        > with nothing being done. As the market heated up both developer
                        and
                        > charter school interest picked up in the site. At the same time
                        > various community members began pushing for an open community
                        planning
                        > process for the space as had been done with other publicly owned
                        sites.
                        > The CM agreed that something like this would happen but it never
                        did
                        > make it happen. Instead, he worked at least 2 deals with minimal
                        > public involvement. He worked for DCPS to transfer the project to
                        a
                        > charter school and a second path to have the property made surplus
                        to be
                        > sold to a developer all with minimal community input. Quitely, the
                        > property was made surplus as part of the legisation which created
                        the
                        > now defunct Anacostia Waterfront Corporation. Finally, after
                        community
                        > pressure there is a community meeting on the site with community
                        > consensus for a community center as a key part of the site. In the
                        > middle of this Congress Passes a Budget Rider giving charter
                        schools
                        > first rights to surplus schools. Then all goes quite. Eventually,
                        the
                        > CM announces the award of the site to the charter school saying
                        this is
                        > apart of the fight against blight and crime... Confusing, yes, but
                        the
                        > bottomline is the CM did not want a complete community process on
                        the
                        > disposition of this site, his gaming and delays puts the site into
                        the
                        > Congressional Rider basically nullifying the minimal community
                        > involvement there was. Then to justify and get us to accept the
                        > highjacking of this community asset, he defaults to well at least
                        this
                        > better than having a blighted building. When it was his gaming
                        this
                        > that kept the site offline and blighted..
                        >
                        > I guess the point of my rant is we are a pro-development community.
                        > However, we deserve to be inclusive partners in this process. We
                        no
                        > longer need to nor should we accept any kind of the development ,
                        but
                        > demand appropriate projects that really help improve this
                        community.
                        > Most of the so called blight left in this community is related to
                        poor
                        > stewardship, gaming and highly speculative moves made during a hot
                        > market that cooled. Many of the folk now crying about blight
                        helped to
                        > perpetuate the blight by attempting to game the community
                        involvement
                        > process. We should ignore most of the scare talk and require
                        > appropriate involvement in ensuring thoughtful development takes
                        place
                        > and not allow ourselves to be bullied and/or enticed into any
                        project.
                        > Even if we support a particular project we need to its an
                        appropriate
                        > fit. We need take the time to learn from our own lessons and
                        those
                        > around us and just allow ourselves to be captivated by all the
                        happy talk.
                        >
                        > William
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > mikemayl728 wrote:
                        >
                        > >William,
                        > >
                        > >Who are you specifically pointing your finger at when you write:
                        > >
                        > >"I'm not going to have a developer land bank properties for
                        serveral
                        > >years, in that time make little to no improvements to the property
                        and
                        > >then bring in a bar and lecture us about the how this is major
                        > >improvement over the blight he participated in perpetuating. While
                        at
                        > >the same time asking the community to give up zoning waivers and
                        > >claiming that asking for the waivers is doing us a favor."
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > --- In columbia_heights@yahoogroups.com, William Jordan <whj@>
                        > >wrote:
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >>In general developers will act in their own interests, business
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >owners
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >>theirs, and most residents in their individual interest as well
                        > >>political interests; however, like it our not we live in a dense
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >and
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >>diverse neighborhood(s)/community(s) and their are some common
                        > >>neighborhood interests. The challenge as never been advocating
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >for
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >>our particular interest, but for our common interests. Because
                        of
                        > >>various historic dynamics Columbia Height/Pleasant Plains has/had
                        a
                        > >>unique opportunity to redevelop balancings this various needs and
                        > >>drafted plans to do so. Based on this planning CH was afforded
                        the
                        > >>opportunity to be one of the most pro-development neighborhoods
                        in
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >the
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >>city; however, the other side of the deal was city and developers
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >were
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >>to invest in the neighborhood infrastrucure of this community and
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >this
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >>has not happened effectively. By community or neighborhood
                        > >>infrastructure I mean beyond the token throw-a-ways often
                        brokered
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >on
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >>our behalf.
                        > >>It's time for the CH community to stop being pushovers and start
                        > >>demanding serious responses to our needs from officials and etc.
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >If the
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >>consensus of this community is to continue to be political and
                        > >>development patsies then so be it, but until I start seeing some
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >serious
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >>and appropriate follow-thru I have little interest in the
                        marketing
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >LaLa
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >>and tokens.
                        > >>
                        > >>I'm not going to have a developer land bank properties for
                        serveral
                        > >>years, in that time make little to no improvements to the
                        property
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >and
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >>then bring in a bar and lecture us about the how this is major
                        > >>improvement over the blight he participated in perpetuating.
                        While
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >at
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >>the same time asking the community to give up zoning waivers and
                        > >>claiming that asking for the waivers is doing us a favor.
                        > >>
                        > >>If we are going to have multible bars in an area clearly don't
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >designed
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >>for that type of development we should at least aspect to see
                        the
                        > >>public and private infrastructure committments made to support
                        such
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >a
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >>development approach. Whether beer is serviced in a glass,
                        bottle
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >or
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >>can has little to do with seriously address issues at hand.
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >Demanding
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >>serious planning and implementation is not "anti-development" or
                        an
                        > >>aversion to change is being are responsible neighbor.
                        > >>
                        > >>William
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >------------------------------------
                        > >
                        > >URL to this page on the web:
                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/columbia_heights/
                        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                      • William Jordan
                        I used the conjunction and meaning I based my opinion on both specific and composite behaviors/situations. I did not name the specific developer(s) because
                        Message 11 of 13 , Aug 17, 2008

                          I used the conjunction "and" meaning I based my opinion on both specific and  composite behaviors/situations.  I did not name the specific developer(s) because I did  not think it critical to my point.

                          Neighbors directly and via their representatives have a role in the process.  It's not about getting permints passed William Jordan, but their is a legitimate resident role in the process.  And "we" have a responsibility to soberly stepup to that role.  

                          :Landbanking is a tool that can be used responsibly and not so responsibly.  The issue is not that all landbanking is bad, but how the property is maintained during the process.  If a developer argues that "we" should support their requested variances because their project will eliminate blight and it turns out that they landbanked the property in a blighted state, I find the "blight" arguement specious coming from that developer especially at this point in the history of CH.  And in general the blight arguement in CH generally without merit.

                          CH has been more than patient with developers, even when developer interests conflict with the overall interests of CH.  We know what the "interests" of  CH are because multiple planning processes have layed them out.  I believe we are now at a point where CH should  be more demanding and thoughtful as "we" have also made investments in CH and our community.  

                          But you make a good point about risks and I believe it supports my point.  In some cases developers are in affect shifting their risks, some of them highly speculative, on to this community by asking us to support projects for which there is insufficient planning,  infrastructure and benefit(?).  And my concern in the case of 11th St. is the clustering establishments in an area clearly not prepared nor designed for the trend which we are seeing.   There are two basic responses slow/stop the trend and/or demand the appropriate infrastructure upgrades to support the trend.  At the very least residents of the affected area need to be fully engaged and informed  of the trends and response options.

                          It should also be noted that many of us worked to preserve a portion of 11th St as commercial as the city wanted to rezone as residential only.  However, the push was to ensure it as neighborhood serving commercial area vs.  14th St which is more destination oriented.   As well "we" pushed for and thought we had a committment for infrastructure upgrades to support its continued commercial use.  The biggest obstacles to these efforts as been the political approach of Mr. Graham.  I don't want the residents of CH to feel that they should feel corned by developers mis-timing the housing bubble and Mr. Graham's continued poor stewardship into absorbing unnecessary risks.

                          William





                          mikemayl728 wrote:
                          Attacking a composite is the use of generalities.  The strawman 
                          you're creating is one representation but it's not fully informed 
                          about every developer and transaction that has taken place.  You'd 
                          have to be a mind reader to know what's in the minds of urban 
                          developers. 
                          
                          You're expressing an opinion.  Learned as it may be, it's an 
                          opinion.  Like many opinions, it has it merits and you are entitled 
                          to it and the right to fight for its defense. But your phase that all 
                          developers, (the composite developers) "land bank" is misleading and 
                          not the real world.  Speculators are not in for the long haul – they 
                          want in and out fast – and land banking is not a good option for them 
                          because of the risk.
                          
                          There are other scenarios that are just as valid as yours that do not 
                          characterize all land developers as robber barons. Unless a developer 
                          is extremely wealthy and wants to bankroll speculations on 
                          properties, they go to investors and lenders for funding.  
                          Investors/Bankers want real plans that show the investments as 
                          sound.  They want to know why they should supply three times the 
                          value of an abandoned blight to someone with a vision and a track 
                          record.  What good and profit will come of it?  This is what people 
                          in the lending business ask and have to be convinced of.  For the 
                          developer, it takes time to draw up plans, get approvals, permits, 
                          get passed William Jordan, find tenants, build it, open it for 
                          business and all the while, make interest payments on the loan.  
                          Sometimes, the deals fall apart and focal point of the dream has to 
                          cut their losses.  Developers are risk takers.
                          
                          It's my opinion which is just a valid as yours and just as informed.  
                          Without these risk takers, Columbia Heights would not have the 
                          benefit of a resurgence.
                          
                          Please keep writing all those wonderful opinions.  I find them very 
                          entertaining.
                          
                          
                          --- In columbia_heights@yahoogroups.com, William Jordan <whj@...> 
                          wrote:
                            
                          It's a specific and a composite reference to an approach and 
                              
                          attitude 
                            
                          which I believe has helped underdeveloped  the community and 
                              
                          economic 
                            
                          development effort in Columbia Heights and Georgia Ave. .  I'm not 
                              
                          going 
                            
                          to repeat the name of a specific developer because picking on a 
                          particular developer is not my purpose here.  However,  in posts 
                              
                          some 
                            
                          time ago I was very specific.  As well, my point is not solely 
                              
                          aimed at 
                            
                          developers but the Council Member Graham and others who on behalf 
                              
                          of the 
                            
                          "community"  misuses the concerns about blight to limit community 
                          voices, input and transparency to  steer projects without community 
                          input and justifying it as a fight against blight.  Hey, if I were 
                              
                          a 
                            
                          developer I would probably go along with this if it worked in my 
                              
                          favor.
                            
                          But as a related examble let's look at the Old Bruce School.  I the 
                          night 90's early 2000s DCPS wanted to rehab the school as swing 
                              
                          space to 
                            
                          being modernizing local schools.  The CM used his influence to 
                              
                          block 
                            
                          this usage, so for this and other reasons the building sat for 
                              
                          years 
                            
                          with nothing being done.  As the market heated up both developer 
                              
                          and 
                            
                          charter school interest picked up in the site.   At the same time 
                          various community members began pushing for an open community 
                              
                          planning 
                            
                          process for the space as had been done with other publicly owned 
                              
                          sites. 
                            
                           The CM agreed that something like this would happen but it never 
                              
                          did 
                            
                           make it happen.  Instead, he worked at least 2 deals with minimal 
                          public involvement.   He worked for DCPS to transfer the project to 
                              
                          a 
                            
                          charter school and a second path to have the property made surplus 
                              
                          to be 
                            
                          sold to a developer all with minimal community input.  Quitely, the 
                          property was made surplus as part of the legisation which created 
                              
                          the 
                            
                          now defunct Anacostia Waterfront Corporation.  Finally, after 
                              
                          community 
                            
                          pressure there is a community meeting on the site with community 
                          consensus for a community center as a key part of the site. In the 
                          middle of this Congress Passes a Budget Rider giving charter 
                              
                          schools 
                            
                          first rights to surplus schools. Then all goes quite.   Eventually, 
                              
                          the 
                            
                          CM announces the award of the site to the charter school saying 
                              
                          this is 
                            
                          apart of the fight against blight and crime...  Confusing, yes, but 
                              
                          the 
                            
                          bottomline is the CM did not want a complete community process on 
                              
                          the 
                            
                          disposition of this site,  his gaming and delays puts the site into 
                              
                          the 
                            
                          Congressional Rider basically nullifying the minimal community 
                          involvement there was.  Then to justify and get us to accept the 
                          highjacking of this community asset, he defaults to well at least 
                              
                          this 
                            
                          better than having a blighted building.  When it was his gaming 
                              
                          this 
                            
                          that kept the site offline and blighted..
                          
                          I guess the point of my rant is we are a pro-development community. 
                           However, we deserve to be  inclusive partners in this process.  We 
                              
                          no 
                            
                          longer need to nor should we accept any kind of  the development , 
                              
                          but 
                            
                          demand appropriate projects that really help improve this 
                              
                          community. 
                            
                           Most of the so called blight left in this community is related to 
                              
                          poor 
                            
                          stewardship, gaming and highly speculative moves made during a hot 
                          market that cooled.  Many of the folk now crying about blight 
                              
                          helped to 
                            
                          perpetuate the blight by attempting to game the community 
                              
                          involvement 
                            
                          process.  We should ignore most of the scare talk and require 
                          appropriate involvement in ensuring thoughtful development takes 
                              
                          place 
                            
                          and not allow ourselves to be bullied and/or enticed into any 
                              
                          project.   
                            
                          Even if we support a particular project we need to its an 
                              
                          appropriate 
                            
                          fit.   We need take the time to learn from our own lessons and 
                              
                          those 
                            
                          around us and just allow ourselves to be captivated by all the 
                              
                          happy talk.  
                            
                          William
                          
                          
                          
                          mikemayl728 wrote:
                          
                              
                          William,
                          
                          Who are you specifically pointing your finger at when you write:
                          
                          "I'm not going to have a developer land bank properties for 
                                
                          serveral
                            
                          years, in that time make little to no improvements to the property 
                                
                          and
                            
                          then bring in a bar and lecture us about the how this is major
                          improvement over the blight he participated in perpetuating. While 
                                
                          at
                            
                          the same time asking the community to give up zoning waivers and
                          claiming that asking for the waivers is doing us a favor."
                          
                          
                          
                          --- In columbia_heights@yahoogroups.com, William Jordan <whj@> 
                          wrote:
                           
                          
                                
                          In general developers will act in their own interests,  business 
                             
                          
                                  
                          owners 
                           
                          
                                
                          theirs, and most residents in their individual interest as well 
                          political interests; however,  like it our not we live in a dense 
                             
                          
                                  
                          and 
                           
                          
                                
                          diverse neighborhood(s)/community(s) and their are some common 
                          neighborhood interests.    The challenge as never been advocating 
                             
                          
                                  
                          for 
                           
                          
                                
                          our particular interest, but for our common interests.  Because 
                                  
                          of 
                            
                          various historic dynamics Columbia Height/Pleasant Plains has/had 
                                  
                          a 
                            
                          unique opportunity to redevelop balancings this various needs and 
                          drafted plans to do so.  Based on this planning CH was afforded 
                                  
                          the 
                            
                          opportunity to be one of the most pro-development neighborhoods 
                                  
                          in 
                            
                             
                          
                                  
                          the 
                           
                          
                                
                          city; however, the other side of the deal was city and developers 
                             
                          
                                  
                          were 
                           
                          
                                
                          to invest in the neighborhood infrastrucure of this community and 
                             
                          
                                  
                          this 
                           
                          
                                
                          has not happened effectively.  By community or neighborhood 
                          infrastructure I mean beyond the token throw-a-ways  often 
                                  
                          brokered 
                            
                             
                          
                                  
                          on 
                           
                          
                                
                          our behalf.  
                          It's time for the CH community to stop being pushovers and start 
                          demanding serious responses to our needs from officials and etc.  
                             
                          
                                  
                          If the 
                           
                          
                                
                          consensus of this community is to continue to  be political and 
                          development patsies then so be it, but until I start seeing some 
                             
                          
                                  
                          serious 
                           
                          
                                
                          and appropriate follow-thru I have little interest in the 
                                  
                          marketing 
                            
                             
                          
                                  
                          LaLa 
                           
                          
                                
                          and tokens.
                          
                          I'm not going to have a developer land bank properties for 
                                  
                          serveral 
                            
                          years, in that time make little to no improvements to the 
                                  
                          property 
                            
                             
                          
                                  
                          and 
                           
                          
                                
                          then bring in a bar and lecture us about the how this is major 
                          improvement over the blight he participated in perpetuating.  
                                  
                          While 
                            
                             
                          
                                  
                          at 
                           
                          
                                
                          the same time asking the community to give up zoning waivers and 
                          claiming that asking for the waivers is doing us a favor.
                          
                          If we are going to have multible bars in an area clearly don't 
                             
                          
                                  
                          designed 
                           
                          
                                
                          for that type of development  we should at least aspect to see 
                                  
                          the 
                            
                          public and private infrastructure committments made to support 
                                  
                          such 
                            
                             
                          
                                  
                          a 
                           
                          
                                
                          development approach.  Whether beer is serviced in a glass, 
                                  
                          bottle 
                            
                             
                          
                                  
                          or 
                           
                          
                                
                          can has little to do with seriously address issues at hand.  
                             
                          
                                  
                          Demanding 
                           
                          
                                
                          serious planning and implementation is not "anti-development" or 
                                  
                          an 
                            
                          aversion to change is being are responsible neighbor.
                          
                          William
                          
                             
                          
                                  
                          
                          ------------------------------------
                          
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                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/columbia_heights/
                            
                          Yahoo! Groups Links
                          
                          
                          
                           
                          
                                
                          
                          
                          ------------------------------------
                          
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                        • matt_heine
                          This randomly generated complaint
                          Message 12 of 13 , Aug 19, 2008
                            This randomly generated complaint makes just about as much sense . . . .


                            --- In columbia_heights@yahoogroups.com, William Jordan <whj@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > In general developers will act in their own interests, business owners
                            > theirs, and most residents in their individual interest as well
                            > political interests; however, like it our not we live in a dense and
                            > diverse neighborhood(s)/community(s) and their are some common
                            > neighborhood interests. The challenge as never been advocating for
                            > our particular interest, but for our common interests. Because of
                            > various historic dynamics Columbia Height/Pleasant Plains has/had a
                            > unique opportunity to redevelop balancings this various needs and
                            > drafted plans to do so. Based on this planning CH was afforded the
                            > opportunity to be one of the most pro-development neighborhoods in the
                            > city; however, the other side of the deal was city and developers were
                            > to invest in the neighborhood infrastrucure of this community and this
                            > has not happened effectively. By community or neighborhood
                            > infrastructure I mean beyond the token throw-a-ways often brokered on
                            > our behalf.
                            > It's time for the CH community to stop being pushovers and start
                            > demanding serious responses to our needs from officials and etc. If the
                            > consensus of this community is to continue to be political and
                            > development patsies then so be it, but until I start seeing some serious
                            > and appropriate follow-thru I have little interest in the marketing LaLa
                            > and tokens.
                            >
                            > I'm not going to have a developer land bank properties for serveral
                            > years, in that time make little to no improvements to the property and
                            > then bring in a bar and lecture us about the how this is major
                            > improvement over the blight he participated in perpetuating. While at
                            > the same time asking the community to give up zoning waivers and
                            > claiming that asking for the waivers is doing us a favor.
                            >
                            > If we are going to have multible bars in an area clearly don't designed
                            > for that type of development we should at least aspect to see the
                            > public and private infrastructure committments made to support such a
                            > development approach. Whether beer is serviced in a glass, bottle or
                            > can has little to do with seriously address issues at hand. Demanding
                            > serious planning and implementation is not "anti-development" or an
                            > aversion to change is being are responsible neighbor.
                            >
                            > William
                            >
                          • William Jordan
                            I kind of like the randomly generated complaint and it make perfectly good sense. It s typical when the merits don t hld up to go after the person or other
                            Message 13 of 13 , Aug 20, 2008
                              I kind of like the randomly generated complaint and it make perfectly good sense. It's typical when the merits don't hld up to go after the person or other more tangential things.   But it would probably be more honest to say, "I don't understand your position" or something of that nature.

                              I don't blame, but actually encourage developers and business owners  to check out and seek to take advantage of the many opportunities Columbia Heights presents.

                              On the other hand residents, civic leaders and officials must provide a fair and equitable context for these many opportunities.  Else we will kill these very opportunities and create an unsustianable civic order which underminds all of us. In some ways this is what has occurred and is occurring in CH.   The critical issues facing CH are sort of like Global Warming 6 years ago, those who raised the issue are viewed as alarmist and out of sync with reality. And having an SUV almost synonymous with a constitutional right as well refinancing of homes to pay for it. Today most realize energy wise we were on an unsustainable course.  In a way, I and other are raising issues about the future community and civic infrastructure of CH and others are currently more concerned about the GPS systems in their SUV.  Don't get me wrong SUVs are cool.

                              William



                              matt_heine wrote:
                              This randomly generated complaint makes just about as much sense . . . .


                              --- In columbia_heights@yahoogroups.com, William Jordan <whj@...> wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              > In general developers will act in their own interests, business owners
                              > theirs, and most residents in their individual interest as well
                              > political interests; however, like it our not we live in a dense and
                              > diverse neighborhood(s)/community(s) and their are some common
                              > neighborhood interests. The challenge as never been advocating for
                              > our particular interest, but for our common interests. Because of
                              > various historic dynamics Columbia Height/Pleasant Plains has/had a
                              > unique opportunity to redevelop balancings this various needs and
                              > drafted plans to do s o. Based on this planning CH was afforded the
                              > opportunity to be one of the most pro-development neighborhoods in the
                              > city; however, the other side of the deal was city and developers were
                              > to invest in the neighborhood infrastrucure of this community and this
                              > has not happened effectively. By community or neighborhood
                              > infrastructure I mean beyond the token throw-a-ways often brokered on
                              > our behalf.
                              > It's time for the CH community to stop being pushovers and start
                              > demanding serious responses to our needs from officials and etc. If the
                              > consensus of this community is to continue to be political and
                              > development patsies then so be it, but until I start seeing some serious
                              > and appropriate follow-thru I have little interest in the marketing LaLa
                              > and tokens.
                              >
                              > I'm not going to have a developer land bank properties for serveral
                              > years, in that time mak e little to no improvements to the property and
                              > then bring in a bar and lecture us about the how this is major
                              > improvement over the blight he participated in perpetuating. While at
                              > the same time asking the community to give up zoning waivers and
                              > claiming that asking for the waivers is doing us a favor.
                              >
                              > If we are going to have multible bars in an area clearly don't designed
                              > for that type of development we should at least aspect to see the
                              > public and private infrastructure committments made to support such a
                              > development approach. Whether beer is serviced in a glass, bottle or
                              > can has little to do with seriously address issues at hand. Demanding
                              > serious planning and implementation is not "anti-development" or an
                              > aversion to change is being are responsible neighbor.
                              >
                              > William
                              >

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