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Re: [columbia_heights] DC USA Development Meeting

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  • William Jordan
    On Forest City - I m going to have the let the dead bury the dead... Parochial, because we must deal with multiple parameters and trade-offs, focusing on just
    Message 1 of 18 , Mar 3, 2004
      On Forest City - I'm going to have the let the dead bury the dead...

      Parochial, because we must deal with multiple parameters and
      trade-offs, focusing on just one element of development(s) is what gets
      us in trouble.

      Ward 1 is made up of SNAP planning clusters 1, 2, and 3. Cluster 1
      rated "Socioeconomic Diversity" its #1 priority and 2 and 3 rated
      affordable housing their #1 priorities. Yet the Ward doesn't have a real
      plan and infrastructure to address this.

      Employment - this community has plenty of folk who need jobs entry level
      on up. We need to ensure we get the most we can as development occurs.

      Columbia Heights has between 105 and 117 local businesses. We need to
      lobby to get those business as must support as we can.

      The city has back-tracked and delayed work that should have started by
      now on Tubman Elementary and Cardoza Sr. We should be demanding that the
      city ignore Alice Rivlin and get to work on these schools.

      So, while traffic is important it is not our only issue.

      David McIntire wrote:

      >William,
      >
      >I disagree. The charrette never anticipated the kind of overdevelopment we
      >see now.
      >
      >The Tivoli parcel was to be housing and the use of the theater for public
      >purposes - not retail with a 55,000 sq.ft. retail structure in the rear.
      >
      >The parcel for DCUSA was to be the retail segment. While it was anticipated
      >that there would be a big box there, I don't think anyone would have
      >anticipated a merchandizing store of the size of the current proposed
      >Target - 185,000 sq.ft.. What was anticipated is what Forest City proposed,
      >and which got the nod of approval from charrette proponents including the
      >architects and planners from AIA which put the charrette in final form - a
      >combination of grocery and merchandizing on that parcel.
      >
      >What was proposed for the other 2 parcels was some combination of office and
      >smaller retail, not luxury condiminums.
      >
      >The devil is in the details, William, not in grand generalizations that say
      >little. The charrette never recommended or anticipated the massive
      >overbuilding we see proposed now, nor the considerable outlay of public
      >monies and benefits to developers to make it happen. We anticipated a
      >development that would be of a size that served Columbia Heights and
      >surrounding neighborhoods with plenty of opportunity for local businesses -
      >not a regional shopping center that would attracting overwelming auto
      >traffic to, almost exclusively, national chains.
      >
      >Columbia Heights is too dense a neighborhood with inadequate streets for
      >such development. It will be a traffic nightmare and kiss parking along thru
      >streets goodbye. That's the only possible way to move the additional traffic
      >that will be generated. Why is it parochial to not want to breathe idling
      >auto exhaust all day and a good portion of the night?
      >
      >BTW, Horning just filed a building permit for housing on that parcel that
      >will cost $117,000 plus change each to build according to the application.
      >His sign on the parcel says they will be sold for $300,000 +. That's not a
      >bad profit. That is what is driving this development with tax payer
      >giveaways - not consideration of the public good.
      >
      >Dave.
      >
      >----- Original Message -----
      >From: William Jordan
      >To: David McIntire
      >Cc: Columbia Heights
      >Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 10:17 AM
      >Subject: Re: [columbia_heights] DC USA Development Meeting
      >
      >
      >
      >Your analysis is not as much incorrect as it is incomplete and somewhat
      >parochial. While the DC USA project is a lot for this community to digest,
      >it is the lack of concensus housing, education, publicspace policies and
      >planning that is truely devouring Columbia Heights. By narrowing our debate
      >on these issues down to particular projects we expose Columbia Heights to
      >the whims of the city's top-down macro-economic and academic approach to
      >housing and economic development which only acknowledges the very detailed
      >needs of neighborhoods/communities in the periphery.
      >
      >DC USA pretty much conforms to charrette recommendations while addressing
      >other historical planning efforts. When Columbia Heights is taken as a
      >whole much of the charrette will be properly addressed. The real challenge
      >for Columbia Heights lies in the combination of a liaise faire approach to
      >housing policy and the city's approach for Transit Oriented Development
      >(TOD). By overly focusing on DC USA we are distracted as luxury condos are
      >wedged into every available space and the needs of current residents
      >back-seated as we seek 100K new neighbors.
      >
      >William
      >
      >David McIntire wrote:
      >
      >William,
      >
      >Where is my analysis of the situation and likely outcome of this development
      >incorrect?
      >
      >I am not trying to torpedo anything. We certainly need development and I was
      >an enthusiastic supporter of the charrette recomendations which were
      >completely ignored by the City.
      >
      >We have the market and we could have had the kind of development we want and
      >need as residents. But this current white whale will do nothing more than
      >devour Columbia Heights as far as I can understand it.
      >
      >Dave McIntire
      >
      >
      >----- Original Message -----
      >From: William Jordan
      >To: Columbia Heights
      >Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 7:37 AM
      >Subject: Re: [columbia_heights] DC USA Development Meeting
      >
      >
      >
      >I join you in supporting pushing the project forward; however, I would
      >not be so quick to dismiss concerns raised by Dave as not being ready
      >for change. Negotiating change in the face of the forces unleashed by
      >our policy of "Urban Colonialism" is not an easy task. This is
      >compounded by faulty and incomplete descriptions of Columbia Heights as
      >a community in disarray; this creates an environment justifying those
      >who would have us exchange our community's "soul" for so called "urban
      >style". Dave's instinct to fight for the "soul" of this community is
      >correct; however his obsession for the great whale can be
      >counter-productive.
      >
      >Speaking of counter-productive, I would caution the use petty "codes"
      >as the primary means to enforce social norms. In this country such an
      >approach tends to lead to seperateness and cultural imperialism that we
      >may soon regret.
      >
      >William
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >URL to this page on the web: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/columbia_heights/
      >
      >Yahoo! Groups Links
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      >
      >
      >
      >
      >URL to this page on the web: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/columbia_heights/
      >
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      >
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    • David McIntire
      Parochial - is that like being a liberal? George Bush would be proud of how you insist on using labels and answering with blather. Maybe you can get a job in
      Message 2 of 18 , Mar 3, 2004
        Parochial - is that like being a liberal? George Bush would be proud of how
        you insist on using labels and answering with blather. Maybe you can get a
        job in his re-election campaign.

        The fact is that I have raised any number of objections to development as
        now planned. And the development is far from being set in stone. But the
        developers will get every advantage they want as long as residents remain
        passive.

        Dave McIntire

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "William Jordan" <whj@...>
        To: "David McIntire" <dmcintir@...>
        Cc: "Columbia Heights" <columbia_heights@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 6:23 PM
        Subject: Re: [columbia_heights] DC USA Development Meeting


        > On Forest City - I'm going to have the let the dead bury the dead...
        >
        > Parochial, because we must deal with multiple parameters and
        > trade-offs, focusing on just one element of development(s) is what gets
        > us in trouble.
        >
        > Ward 1 is made up of SNAP planning clusters 1, 2, and 3. Cluster 1
        > rated "Socioeconomic Diversity" its #1 priority and 2 and 3 rated
        > affordable housing their #1 priorities. Yet the Ward doesn't have a real
        > plan and infrastructure to address this.
        >
        > Employment - this community has plenty of folk who need jobs entry level
        > on up. We need to ensure we get the most we can as development occurs.
        >
        > Columbia Heights has between 105 and 117 local businesses. We need to
        > lobby to get those business as must support as we can.
        >
        > The city has back-tracked and delayed work that should have started by
        > now on Tubman Elementary and Cardoza Sr. We should be demanding that the
        > city ignore Alice Rivlin and get to work on these schools.
        >
        > So, while traffic is important it is not our only issue.
      • William Jordan
        I would never do such a thing as use the word parochial like W uses liberal . I used parochial because that was the best word I knew of to describe your
        Message 3 of 18 , Mar 4, 2004

          I would never do such a thing as use the word "parochial" like W uses "liberal".  I used parochial because that was the best word I knew of to describe your narrow focus.  I actually take most of your concerns to heart.  I just believe we should be pushing for additional engineering to better address those concerns.  And that this engineering needs to be on going and revisited 4 or 5 times over the next 5 to 7 years.   Also, that traffic and parking controls be designed for flexibility given that they will have to change serveral times over the years to normalize things.

          My guess is that it is a pretty good deal for developers otherwise they probably would not do the deal.  And likely if redone the city & citizens could do better because the market has changed.  But, hey I did not choose the scorched earth approach to these projects making further changes more difficult and expensive.  Over the last several years I have been taking myself through a crash self study course in Columbia Height development and politics.  So, I don't dismiss your comments, I just don't give them the same weight you do.   Often the concern raised is legit, but the logic leading up to the conclusion often falls apart prematurely.  So, unlike Ws use of the word liberal,  I don't want to dismiss your issues, just want you to tighten up the logic.

          William






          David McIntire wrote:
          Parochial - is that like being a liberal? George Bush would be proud of how
          you insist on using labels and answering with blather. Maybe you can get a
          job in his re-election campaign.
          
          The fact is that I have raised any number of objections to development as
          now planned. And the development is far from being set in stone. But the
          developers will get every advantage they want as long as residents remain
          passive.
          
          Dave McIntire
          
          ----- Original Message ----- 
          From: "William Jordan" <whj@...>
          To: "David McIntire" <dmcintir@...>
          Cc: "Columbia Heights" <columbia_heights@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 6:23 PM
          Subject: Re: [columbia_heights] DC USA Development Meeting
          
          
            
          On Forest City - I'm going to have the let the dead bury the dead...
          
          Parochial, because we must deal with multiple parameters and
          trade-offs,  focusing on just one element of development(s) is what gets
          us in trouble.
          
          Ward 1 is made up of  SNAP planning clusters 1, 2, and 3.   Cluster 1
          rated "Socioeconomic Diversity" its  #1 priority and 2 and 3 rated
          affordable housing their #1 priorities. Yet the Ward doesn't have a real
          plan and infrastructure to address this.
          
          Employment - this community has plenty of folk who need jobs entry level
          on up.  We need to ensure we get the most we can as development occurs.
          
          Columbia Heights has between 105 and 117 local businesses.  We need to
          lobby to get those business as must support as we can.
          
          The city has back-tracked and delayed work that should have started by
          now on Tubman Elementary and Cardoza Sr. We should be demanding that the
          city ignore Alice Rivlin and get to work on these schools.
          
          So, while traffic is important it is not our only issue.
              
          
          
            

        • David McIntire
          The nice thing about an issue like this is that the truth will be revealed with the results. Personally I hope to be proven wrong. But I don t think that will
          Message 4 of 18 , Mar 4, 2004
            The nice thing about an issue like this is that the truth will be revealed
            with the results. Personally I hope to be proven wrong. But I don't think
            that will happen.

            Dave McIntire

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: William Jordan
            To: David McIntire
            Cc: Columbia Heights
            Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 6:36 AM
            Subject: Re: [columbia_heights] DC USA Development Meeting

            I would never do such a thing as use the word "parochial" like W uses
            "liberal". I used parochial because that was the best word I knew of to
            describe your narrow focus. I actually take most of your concerns to heart.
            I just believe we should be pushing for additional engineering to better
            address those concerns. And that this engineering needs to be on going and
            revisited 4 or 5 times over the next 5 to 7 years. Also, that traffic and
            parking controls be designed for flexibility given that they will have to
            change serveral times over the years to normalize things.
          • Jim Weiner
            I read a lot on this list-serve and mostly just take in what makes sense and ignore what doesn t. But what is the logic of this statement? * * * If some of you
            Message 5 of 18 , Mar 4, 2004

              I read a lot on this list-serve and mostly just take in what makes sense and ignore what doesn't.  But what is the logic of this statement?

              * * *

                If some of you cared about CH half as much as you proffer, you
              would put your houses up for sale.


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            • William Jordan
              This person is just following the lead set by many on this list who constanstly complain about and degrade this community and the people who currently live in
              Message 6 of 18 , Mar 4, 2004

                This person is just following the lead set by many on this list who constanstly complain about and degrade this community and the people who currently live in it.

                William

                Jim Weiner wrote:

                I read a lot on this list-serve and mostly just take in what makes sense and ignore what doesn't.  But what is the logic of this statement?

                * * *

                  If some of you cared about CH half as much as you proffer, you would put your houses up for sale.


                FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now!

                URL to this page on the web: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/columbia_heights/




              • eheard1874@aol.com
                I think these people are FEW, William, and not MANY. Maybe those who are so appalled by the sight of the inside and outside of CH should sell their houses.
                Message 7 of 18 , Mar 5, 2004
                  I think these people are FEW, William, and not MANY.  Maybe those who are so appalled by the sight of the inside and outside of CH should sell their houses.  It would relieve their stress and probably ours.
                   
                  Eric
                   
                  1322 Kenyon Street NW
                  Washington, DC 20010

                  202.332.4526
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