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Re: SAC Deep Underground & NORAD ALCOP at Lamar

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  • Hooligan@xxx.xxx
    In a message dated 4/11/99 9:12:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ... was ... was built. Curious-George has indicated a couple times in this forum that per the
    Message 1 of 4 , Apr 11, 1999
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      In a message dated 4/11/99 9:12:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
      CLDWARHIST@... writes:

      > From: CLDWARHIST@...
      >
      > In a message dated 4/11/99 9:10:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
      > mfoster@... writes:
      >
      > << Are you saying a 3,500 foot deep SAC facility exists at Lamar? I don't
      > believe any "deep" facility was ever built. >>
      > No. I'm not sure how deep the SAC DEEPUNDERGROUND FACILITY was, and it
      was
      > pointed out to me by one very old man in Detroit that I have no proof it
      was built.

      Curious-George has indicated a couple times in this forum that per the
      way-cool documents Albert obtained, the
      SAC Deep facility was built.

      I pointed out to Curious-George that unless I missed something (very
      possible), the only reference I saw in the dox to the SAC facility was in
      regards to 'consulting' with Congress regarding the DUCC. My interpretation
      is that Congress apparently wasn't happy at the way they were 'consulted'
      with regarding the SAC deep facility, but that does not imply the facility
      was built, and in fact I wouldn't be surprised if Congress would deny
      funding, simply because they were miffed that their 'valuable input'
      regarding a SAC Deep Command Center wasn't solicited at an early part of the
      SAC study. Perhaps SAC General Thomas Power & AF COS Curt LeMay simply went
      before Congress and said "Oh by the way, we need an extra $100,000,000 for
      this deep...."


      > I am saying that in Lamar, Colorado, NORAD built an alternate combat
      > operations center as a backup to Cheyenne Mountain, CO.

      And our source for this is the 'Air Combat Command and the Legacy of the
      Cold War -- A Systematic Study of Air Combat Command Cold War Material
      Culture, December 1997' CD-ROM.

      The Lamar, CO facility (adjacent to the AT&T L-4 & MUX GEP site) was
      obstensibly NORAD CMC's HF/SSB radio transmit & control site, the with HF/SSB
      receive site *apparently* in/near Hugo, CO. The Lamar sites were visited
      in the past year or two by someone who I hope is on this list, and could
      describe first-hand what he saw, but the old NORAD Annex in Lamar is intact,
      yet mothballed. Old USAF signs are still up, yet the facility is apparently
      now owned by the county.


      Tim Tyler
      Detroit, Michigan
    • Mark Foster
      ... Photos taken are at: http://www1.shore.net/~mfoster/Lamar.htm
      Message 2 of 4 , Apr 12, 1999
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        >> I am saying that in Lamar, Colorado, NORAD built an alternate combat
        >> operations center as a backup to Cheyenne Mountain, CO.
        >
        > And our source for this is the 'Air Combat Command and the Legacy of the
        >Cold War -- A Systematic Study of Air Combat Command Cold War Material
        >Culture, December 1997' CD-ROM.
        >
        > The Lamar, CO facility (adjacent to the AT&T L-4 & MUX GEP site) was
        >obstensibly NORAD CMC's HF/SSB radio transmit & control site, the with HF/SSB
        >receive site *apparently* in/near Hugo, CO. The Lamar sites were visited
        >in the past year or two by someone who I hope is on this list, and could
        >describe first-hand what he saw, but the old NORAD Annex in Lamar is intact,
        >yet mothballed. Old USAF signs are still up, yet the facility is apparently
        >now owned by the county.

        Photos taken are at: http://www1.shore.net/~mfoster/Lamar.htm
      • wtroskey
        The only SAC underground is about 3 stories below what is now USSTRATCOM HQ at Offutt (building 500). There is a secondary entrance (mole hole) behind the
        Message 3 of 4 , Aug 26, 2012
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          The only SAC underground is about 3 stories below what is now USSTRATCOM HQ at Offutt (building 500). There is a secondary entrance (mole hole) behind the building to the east. News footage from 9/11/01 showed President G.W. Bush walking into the mole hole entrance. The SAC CP was known to not be 100% survivable, especially after bigger & more accurate warheads were developed; but that's why they had Looking Glass & NEACP.

          I had a one-in-three chance of getting assigned to the SAC underground TCF when I got to Offutt, but ended up in the DSCS TCF instead.


          Bill Troskey
          USAF Tech Controller
          Feldberg RRL, GE 1979-1981
          Offutt AFB, NE 1981-1982




          --- In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, Hooligan@... wrote:
          >
          > In a message dated 4/11/99 9:12:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
          > CLDWARHIST@... writes:
          >
          > > From: CLDWARHIST@...
          > >
          > > In a message dated 4/11/99 9:10:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
          > > mfoster@... writes:
          > >
          > > << Are you saying a 3,500 foot deep SAC facility exists at Lamar? I don't
          > > believe any "deep" facility was ever built. >>
          > > No. I'm not sure how deep the SAC DEEPUNDERGROUND FACILITY was, and it
          > was
          > > pointed out to me by one very old man in Detroit that I have no proof it
          > was built.
          >
          > Curious-George has indicated a couple times in this forum that per the
          > way-cool documents Albert obtained, the
          > SAC Deep facility was built.
          >
          > I pointed out to Curious-George that unless I missed something (very
          > possible), the only reference I saw in the dox to the SAC facility was in
          > regards to 'consulting' with Congress regarding the DUCC. My interpretation
          > is that Congress apparently wasn't happy at the way they were 'consulted'
          > with regarding the SAC deep facility, but that does not imply the facility
          > was built, and in fact I wouldn't be surprised if Congress would deny
          > funding, simply because they were miffed that their 'valuable input'
          > regarding a SAC Deep Command Center wasn't solicited at an early part of the
          > SAC study. Perhaps SAC General Thomas Power & AF COS Curt LeMay simply went
          > before Congress and said "Oh by the way, we need an extra $100,000,000 for
          > this deep...."
          >
          >
          > > I am saying that in Lamar, Colorado, NORAD built an alternate combat
          > > operations center as a backup to Cheyenne Mountain, CO.
          >
          > And our source for this is the 'Air Combat Command and the Legacy of the
          > Cold War -- A Systematic Study of Air Combat Command Cold War Material
          > Culture, December 1997' CD-ROM.
          >
          > The Lamar, CO facility (adjacent to the AT&T L-4 & MUX GEP site) was
          > obstensibly NORAD CMC's HF/SSB radio transmit & control site, the with HF/SSB
          > receive site *apparently* in/near Hugo, CO. The Lamar sites were visited
          > in the past year or two by someone who I hope is on this list, and could
          > describe first-hand what he saw, but the old NORAD Annex in Lamar is intact,
          > yet mothballed. Old USAF signs are still up, yet the facility is apparently
          > now owned by the county.
          >
          >
          > Tim Tyler
          > Detroit, Michigan
          >
        • Tim
          When SAC received approval for a major Underground Command Center retrofit in the mid-1980s, it was decided that despite all the redundancy they always liked
          Message 4 of 4 , Aug 26, 2012
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            When SAC received approval for a major Underground Command Center
            retrofit in the mid-1980s, it was decided that despite all the
            redundancy they always liked advertising, the best thing to do was build
            a new underground facility next to the 1950s-era site so that it could
            remain operational until the new Underground Command Center was
            certified as mission-capable & they could do a hot-swap type
            transition. The new one was smaller, thanks to technology.

            I've heard varying stories about what the original SAC CP ("DROP
            KICK") has been used for over the past two decades, but one consistent
            claim is "mostly storage," which is kind of sad.

            It's hard to tell from Bill's quoted post who was stating what, but
            for the record, it sure wasn't I who was stating that NORAD built an
            alternate combat operations center in Lamar, Colorado. I don't recall
            who I was arguing with in this thread way back in 1999, but subsequent
            to that time, I've visited the old Lamar, Colorado NORAD facility, dug
            up some paperwork on it, communicated with people once assigned there,
            and as a result of that, as much as I'd like to confirm they had
            something really cool at Lamar, it was just the HF annex for Cheyenne
            Mountain. I posted more detailed info about the place in this forum a
            year or two ago.

            Tim

            On 8/26/2012 7:12 PM, wtroskey wrote:
            >
            >
            >
            > The only SAC underground is about 3 stories below what is now
            > USSTRATCOM HQ at Offutt (building 500). There is a secondary entrance
            > (mole hole) behind the building to the east. News footage from 9/11/01
            > showed President G.W. Bush walking into the mole hole entrance. The
            > SAC CP was known to not be 100% survivable, especially after bigger &
            > more accurate warheads were developed; but that's why they had Looking
            > Glass & NEACP.
            >
            > I had a one-in-three chance of getting assigned to the SAC underground
            > TCF when I got to Offutt, but ended up in the DSCS TCF instead.
            >
            > Bill Troskey
            > USAF Tech Controller
            > Feldberg RRL, GE 1979-1981
            > Offutt AFB, NE 1981-1982
            >
            > --- In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com
            > <mailto:coldwarcomms%40yahoogroups.com>, Hooligan@...
            > <mailto:Hooligan%40xxx.xxx> wrote:
            > >
            > > In a message dated 4/11/99 9:12:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
            > > CLDWARHIST@... writes:
            > >
            > > > From: CLDWARHIST@...
            > > >
            > > > In a message dated 4/11/99 9:10:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
            > > > mfoster@... writes:
            > > >
            > > > << Are you saying a 3,500 foot deep SAC facility exists at Lamar?
            > I don't
            > > > believe any "deep" facility was ever built. >>
            > > > No. I'm not sure how deep the SAC DEEPUNDERGROUND FACILITY was,
            > and it
            > > was
            > > > pointed out to me by one very old man in Detroit that I have no
            > proof it
            > > was built.
            > >
            > > Curious-George has indicated a couple times in this forum that per the
            > > way-cool documents Albert obtained, the
            > > SAC Deep facility was built.
            > >
            > > I pointed out to Curious-George that unless I missed something (very
            > > possible), the only reference I saw in the dox to the SAC facility
            > was in
            > > regards to 'consulting' with Congress regarding the DUCC. My
            > interpretation
            > > is that Congress apparently wasn't happy at the way they were
            > 'consulted'
            > > with regarding the SAC deep facility, but that does not imply the
            > facility
            > > was built, and in fact I wouldn't be surprised if Congress would deny
            > > funding, simply because they were miffed that their 'valuable input'
            > > regarding a SAC Deep Command Center wasn't solicited at an early
            > part of the
            > > SAC study. Perhaps SAC General Thomas Power & AF COS Curt LeMay
            > simply went
            > > before Congress and said "Oh by the way, we need an extra
            > $100,000,000 for
            > > this deep...."
            > >
            > >
            > > > I am saying that in Lamar, Colorado, NORAD built an alternate combat
            > > > operations center as a backup to Cheyenne Mountain, CO.
            > >
            > > And our source for this is the 'Air Combat Command and the Legacy of
            > the
            > > Cold War -- A Systematic Study of Air Combat Command Cold War Material
            > > Culture, December 1997' CD-ROM.
            > >
            > > The Lamar, CO facility (adjacent to the AT&T L-4 & MUX GEP site) was
            > > obstensibly NORAD CMC's HF/SSB radio transmit & control site, the
            > with HF/SSB
            > > receive site *apparently* in/near Hugo, CO. The Lamar sites were
            > visited
            > > in the past year or two by someone who I hope is on this list, and
            > could
            > > describe first-hand what he saw, but the old NORAD Annex in Lamar is
            > intact,
            > > yet mothballed. Old USAF signs are still up, yet the facility is
            > apparently
            > > now owned by the county.
            > >
            > >
            > > Tim Tyler
            > > Detroit, Michigan
            > >
            >
            >



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