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Re: [coldwarcomms] L huts in NY

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  • blitz
    Let me know when youre out twords the Rochester-Buffalo end, and Im interested in having a look. ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    Message 1 of 29 , Nov 6, 2005
      Let me know when youre out twords the Rochester-Buffalo end, and Im
      interested in having a look.


      At 08:01 11/6/2005, you wrote:
      >I am leaving out for a whirlwind tour of fiber
      >and L huts in NY. From Philly, up to NYC, up to
      >Albany, across to Buffalo. Some of these we own
      >and I still have no clue where they are!
      >
      >Anyone in that neck of the woods wants to see inside
      >on, give me a shout. Not a lot to see, but you woujld
      >be surprised.
      >
      >Blake
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Blake Bowers
      I will be in Canadaguai (However you spell it) to Buffalo on Tuesday late, till wednesday. Got a cell number you can leave? (Provided I get over this sore
      Message 2 of 29 , Nov 6, 2005
        I will be in Canadaguai (However you spell it) to
        Buffalo on Tuesday late, till wednesday. Got a cell
        number you can leave? (Provided I get over this
        sore throat and my voice comes back)

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "blitz" <blitz@...>
        To: <coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 4:10 PM
        Subject: Re: [coldwarcomms] L huts in NY


        > Let me know when youre out twords the Rochester-Buffalo end, and Im
        > interested in having a look.
        >
        >
        > At 08:01 11/6/2005, you wrote:
        >>I am leaving out for a whirlwind tour of fiber
        >>and L huts in NY. From Philly, up to NYC, up to
        >>Albany, across to Buffalo. Some of these we own
        >>and I still have no clue where they are!
        >>
        >>Anyone in that neck of the woods wants to see inside
        >>on, give me a shout. Not a lot to see, but you woujld
        >>be surprised.
        >>
        >>Blake
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>Yahoo! Groups Links
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • blitz
        Im gonna have to pass, I go in for back surgery this week, and I don t think Im gonna be too up for travel. Thanks for thinking of me anyways. ... [Non-text
        Message 3 of 29 , Nov 7, 2005
          Im gonna have to pass, I go in for back surgery this week, and I
          don't think Im gonna be too up for travel. Thanks for thinking of me anyways.

          At 01:39 11/7/2005, you wrote:
          >I will be in Canadaguai (However you spell it) to
          >Buffalo on Tuesday late, till wednesday. Got a cell
          >number you can leave? (Provided I get over this
          >sore throat and my voice comes back)
          >
          >----- Original Message -----
          >From: "blitz" <blitz@...>
          >To: <coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com>
          >Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 4:10 PM
          >Subject: Re: [coldwarcomms] L huts in NY
          >
          >
          > > Let me know when youre out twords the Rochester-Buffalo end, and Im
          > > interested in having a look.
          > >
          > >
          > > At 08:01 11/6/2005, you wrote:
          > >>I am leaving out for a whirlwind tour of fiber
          > >>and L huts in NY. From Philly, up to NYC, up to
          > >>Albany, across to Buffalo. Some of these we own
          > >>and I still have no clue where they are!
          > >>
          > >>Anyone in that neck of the woods wants to see inside
          > >>on, give me a shout. Not a lot to see, but you woujld
          > >>be surprised.
          > >>
          > >>Blake
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>
          > >
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • william simard
          Blake, I e-mailed you directly, but I m not sure you received my messages. I am in Albany, NY and I am interested in seeing the huts in my area. Please e-mail
          Message 4 of 29 , Nov 7, 2005
            Blake,

            I e-mailed you directly, but I'm not sure you received my messages. I
            am in Albany, NY and I am interested in seeing the huts in my area.
            Please e-mail me. Thanks

            Bill Simard
          • Blake Bowers
            Theres an example of screwing up....... At least when i screw up, I do it well.... Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 7:39 AM Subject: Re: [coldwarcomms] L
            Message 5 of 29 , Nov 9, 2005
              Theres an example of screwing up.......

              At least when i screw up, I do it well....







              Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 7:39 AM
              Subject: Re: [coldwarcomms] L huts in NY


              > Understand, as I have been pretty ill this trip, I will be
              > back up very soon. Hope your surgery goes well.
              >
            • blitz
              ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              Message 6 of 29 , Nov 9, 2005
                >
                >Dunno, sri.
                >
                >Quick question though - is 2077 not the ATC
                >combination up here?
                >
                >
                >Thanks
                >Blake
                >
                >
                >----- Original Message -----
                >From: "blitz" <blitz@...>
                >To: <coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com>
                >Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 3:25 AM
                >Subject: Re: [coldwarcomms] L huts in NY
                >
                >
                > > Im gonna have to pass, I go in for back surgery this week, and I
                > > don't think Im gonna be too up for travel. Thanks for thinking of me
                > > anyways.
                > >
                > > At 01:39 11/7/2005, you wrote:
                > >>I will be in Canadaguai (However you spell it) to
                > >>Buffalo on Tuesday late, till wednesday. Got a cell
                > >>number you can leave? (Provided I get over this
                > >>sore throat and my voice comes back)
                > >>
                > >>----- Original Message -----
                > >>From: "blitz" <blitz@...>
                > >>To: <coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com>
                > >>Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 4:10 PM
                > >>Subject: Re: [coldwarcomms] L huts in NY
                > >>
                > >>
                > >> > Let me know when youre out twords the Rochester-Buffalo end, and Im
                > >> > interested in having a look.
                > >> >
                > >> >
                > >> > At 08:01 11/6/2005, you wrote:
                > >> >>I am leaving out for a whirlwind tour of fiber
                > >> >>and L huts in NY. From Philly, up to NYC, up to
                > >> >>Albany, across to Buffalo. Some of these we own
                > >> >>and I still have no clue where they are!
                > >> >>
                > >> >>Anyone in that neck of the woods wants to see inside
                > >> >>on, give me a shout. Not a lot to see, but you woujld
                > >> >>be surprised.
                > >> >>
                > >> >>Blake
                > >> >>
                > >> >>
                > >> >>
                > >> >>
                > >> >>
                > >> >>Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >> >>
                > >> >>
                > >> >>
                > >> >>
                > >> >
                > >> >
                > >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >> >
                > >> >
                > >> >
                > >> >
                > >> >
                > >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >> >
                > >> >
                > >> >
                > >> >
                > >> >
                > >> >
                > >> >
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • David Lesher
                What do we know about the history of coast-to-coast TV? When was the first use? The first NATIONWIDE use? I m thinking of the Army-McCarthy hearings as an
                Message 7 of 29 , Nov 9, 2005
                  What do we know about the history of coast-to-coast TV?
                  When was the first use?
                  The first NATIONWIDE use?

                  I'm thinking of the Army-McCarthy hearings as an early watershed,
                  but I'm not sure.



                  --
                  A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@...
                  & no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
                  Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
                  is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
                • Mark J. Cuccia
                  ... The final link of the coax cable and microwave (all owned by the Bell Telephone System, of course! :) to connect both the east and west coasts of the US,
                  Message 8 of 29 , Nov 9, 2005
                    David Lesher <wb8foz@...> wrote:

                    > What do we know about the history of coast-to-coast TV?
                    > When was the first use?
                    > The first NATIONWIDE use?
                    >
                    > I'm thinking of the Army-McCarthy hearings as an early watershed,
                    > but I'm not sure.


                    The final link of the coax cable and microwave (all owned by the Bell
                    Telephone System, of course! :) to connect both the east and west coasts
                    of the US, was sometime in late 1951.

                    There were several innaugural events, including Edward R. Murrow's
                    "See it Now" CBS-TV news mangazine/documentary... regarding the fact that
                    television programming in the US could now be transmitted by the networks
                    LIVE AND Nationwide, coast-to-coast! He would be in New York City, but
                    showing live pics of the Brooklyn Bridge on one monitor screen in the
                    Control Room, and another monitor screen showing the Golden Gate Bridge
                    or Oakland Bay Bridge, also in the Control Room, simulataneously....

                    Of course, with the different time-zones between the east and west coasts,
                    many programs originated in New York or Chicago that really didn't have
                    to be broadcast to the general public "live", would be kinescoped in
                    Hollywood, filmed off a TV screen on 16-mm film, and then two or three
                    hours later (after a "rush" developing job), played back for the local
                    Los Angeles broadcast TV stations and fed up the west coast of that TV
                    network (and southward to San Diego as well).

                    While the coax and microwave network transmission system now being truly
                    national in scope did allow Hollywood-based entertainment to be performed
                    "live" in realtime to be fed eastward to the East Coast, Midwest and South
                    Central and even Mountain states, since Hollywood and the West Coast was
                    later due to the time-zone, many programs would be "re-performed" two or
                    three hours later in Hollywood, specifically for the west coast delay,
                    unless they desired to "kinescope" it (until videotape would become
                    possible in the mid-to-late 1950s).

                    BUT... with the success of "I Love Lucy" and Desilu's "pre" filming of
                    episodes on 35-mm film, at old Hollywood movie studios, and other filmed
                    programming becoming more popular, especially when the Motion Picture
                    corporations began to establish filmed TV subsidiaries throughout the
                    1950s, as well as the time-zone situations described above, it mostly meant
                    that live nationwide coast-to-coast television in its "purest" sense was
                    mostly used as such for national news and sports events, especially
                    various Congressional Hearings on red influence during the Cold War.

                    Mark J. Cuccia
                    markjcuccia at yahoo dot com
                    Lafayette LA




                    __________________________________
                    Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
                    http://mail.yahoo.com
                  • Albert LaFrance
                    ... From: David Lesher To: Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 8:34 PM Subject: [coldwarcomms] TV history ...
                    Message 9 of 29 , Nov 9, 2005
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "David Lesher" <wb8foz@...>
                      To: <coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 8:34 PM
                      Subject: [coldwarcomms] TV history


                      >
                      > What do we know about the history of coast-to-coast TV?
                      > When was the first use?
                      > The first NATIONWIDE use?
                      >
                      > I'm thinking of the Army-McCarthy hearings as an early watershed,
                      > but I'm not sure.

                      The first coast-to-coast live telecast was President Truman's opening
                      address to the Japanese Peace Treaty Conference in San Francisco on
                      Spetember 4, 1951. Here are two contemporary articles about the event:
                      http://long-lines.net/places-routes/1st_transcon_mw/CPT1151/06-07.html
                      http://long-lines.net/places-routes/1st_transcon_mw/RTN-1151.html

                      Edward R. Murrow's "See It Now" on CBS was the first *regularly-scheduled*
                      nationwide network TV program, whose premiere on Nov. 18, 1951 included
                      simultaneous live images of the Golden Gate and Brooklyn bridges to
                      dramatize the potential of the new technology.

                      A good article dealing with the issues of TV networking was published in the
                      November 1947 issue of "Radio News" magazine. Note the author's conclusion
                      that, at the time, the best means for distributing TV programming was -
                      film!
                      http://long-lines.net/documents/Radio_News_1147/f-cover.html

                      Albert
                    • Rob Walker
                      I would guess that early coast to coast links would have been very expensive to initiate and maintain, both in manpower and in bandwidth. Is there any
                      Message 10 of 29 , Nov 10, 2005
                        I would guess that early "coast to coast" links would have been very expensive to initiate and maintain, both in manpower and in bandwidth.

                        Is there any information on the cost associated with these type of broadcasts? Was this something that LongLines would bill to the television network in one lump sum? And how willing was LongLines to initiate these links, since I'm assuming there wasn't an "always up" coast to coast video channel.

                        Albert LaFrance <lafrance@...> wrote:
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "David Lesher" <wb8foz@...>
                        To: <coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 8:34 PM
                        Subject: [coldwarcomms] TV history


                        >
                        > What do we know about the history of coast-to-coast TV?
                        > When was the first use?
                        > The first NATIONWIDE use?
                        >
                        > I'm thinking of the Army-McCarthy hearings as an early watershed,
                        > but I'm not sure.

                        The first coast-to-coast live telecast was President Truman's opening
                        address to the Japanese Peace Treaty Conference in San Francisco on
                        Spetember 4, 1951. Here are two contemporary articles about the event:
                        http://long-lines.net/places-routes/1st_transcon_mw/CPT1151/06-07.html
                        http://long-lines.net/places-routes/1st_transcon_mw/RTN-1151.html

                        Edward R. Murrow's "See It Now" on CBS was the first *regularly-scheduled*
                        nationwide network TV program, whose premiere on Nov. 18, 1951 included
                        simultaneous live images of the Golden Gate and Brooklyn bridges to
                        dramatize the potential of the new technology.

                        A good article dealing with the issues of TV networking was published in the
                        November 1947 issue of "Radio News" magazine. Note the author's conclusion
                        that, at the time, the best means for distributing TV programming was -
                        film!
                        http://long-lines.net/documents/Radio_News_1147/f-cover.html

                        Albert




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                      • Bill Luebkemann
                        I believe AT&T only built this network because the TV networks were willing to commit to a 20-year contract to use it. If it weren t for that, it might not
                        Message 11 of 29 , Nov 10, 2005
                          I believe AT&T only built this network because the TV networks were willing
                          to commit to a 20-year contract to use it. If it weren't for that, it might
                          not have ever been built.

                          Bill L.


                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com [mailto:coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rob Walker
                          Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 9:28 AM
                          To: coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [coldwarcomms] TV history


                          I would guess that early "coast to coast" links would have been very expensive to initiate and maintain, both in manpower and in
                          bandwidth.

                          Is there any information on the cost associated with these type of broadcasts? Was this something that LongLines would bill to the
                          television network in one lump sum? And how willing was LongLines to initiate these links, since I'm assuming there wasn't an
                          "always up" coast to coast video channel.

                          Albert LaFrance <lafrance@...> wrote:
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "David Lesher" <wb8foz@...>
                          To: <coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 8:34 PM
                          Subject: [coldwarcomms] TV history


                          >
                          > What do we know about the history of coast-to-coast TV?
                          > When was the first use?
                          > The first NATIONWIDE use?
                          >
                          > I'm thinking of the Army-McCarthy hearings as an early watershed,
                          > but I'm not sure.

                          The first coast-to-coast live telecast was President Truman's opening
                          address to the Japanese Peace Treaty Conference in San Francisco on
                          Spetember 4, 1951. Here are two contemporary articles about the event:
                          http://long-lines.net/places-routes/1st_transcon_mw/CPT1151/06-07.html
                          http://long-lines.net/places-routes/1st_transcon_mw/RTN-1151.html

                          Edward R. Murrow's "See It Now" on CBS was the first *regularly-scheduled*
                          nationwide network TV program, whose premiere on Nov. 18, 1951 included
                          simultaneous live images of the Golden Gate and Brooklyn bridges to
                          dramatize the potential of the new technology.

                          A good article dealing with the issues of TV networking was published in the
                          November 1947 issue of "Radio News" magazine. Note the author's conclusion
                          that, at the time, the best means for distributing TV programming was -
                          film!
                          http://long-lines.net/documents/Radio_News_1147/f-cover.html

                          Albert




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                        • Doc
                          I worked for a number of years in network and local broadcasting, with emphasis on remotes . At ABCNY, we had a number of always up channels, such as ANWA
                          Message 12 of 29 , Nov 10, 2005
                            I worked for a number of years in network and local broadcasting, with
                            emphasis on "remotes".

                            At ABCNY, we had a number of "always up" channels, such as ANWA and
                            ACWA, which were Wash to NY and NY to Wash. At one time they went
                            THROUGH the ABC affiliate in Phila, so Phila could feed in either
                            direction if needed. There was also the "Round Robin", which was a
                            loop from NY to PHL to WASH to CLE or PIT (I forget) to CHI to SYR and
                            back to NY. If Chicago wanted to feed anywhere on the loop, on
                            coordination with the NY Traffic office, the loop would be opened at
                            CHI, closed wherever it was open, and all on the RR got the feed.

                            The "coast to coast" network feeds were pretty much left up all the
                            time, as the were paid for on a monthly basis with minimum use charges.

                            "Special" circuits for sports or special events were built up out of
                            unused channels, or sometimes AT&T would re route message channels and
                            turn them over to video. THis got really expensive, as tthe
                            construction charges were quite high. The "Last Mile" usually cost a
                            pretty penny. Sometimes this was done with portable microwave systems
                            or existing cable (124 Ohm balanced). When we did 8 or 10 college
                            football games on a Saturday, building subnetworks, routing the games
                            through a tv station for commercial insertion and onto the subs,
                            things got pretty hairy. Many of the major AT&T stations had set ups
                            where they could fire multiple changes in a "salvo", otherwise we
                            might still be waiting for channels to come up. At ABCBY, we produced
                            a weekly 90 minute closed circuit broadcast to all switching stations,
                            subnet points, and the whole AT&T infrastructure going through the
                            Saturday schedule in excruciating detail.

                            The various Bell Systems had special mobile units equipped with
                            radios, dishes, supports, etc which they would use for restorarion or
                            for special events. For example, they used to set up over 20 special
                            links from the Johnson Space Center to Houston Toll for the early
                            space shots until fiber took over.

                            Ok back to pricing... I remember a show we used to do each year from
                            Abilene, TX, and still do. This involved building a microwave link
                            from the roof of the building (Raytheon KTR Portable stuff) across
                            town to a stub tower with a flyswatter. This was at the end of the NBC
                            feed to the local station. They then installed a microwave path back
                            to the nearest TD-2 en route to Sweetwater. At that TD-2 facility,
                            they would then take down message/voice channels on the backbone to
                            Dallas, then from Dallas over existing network facilities to the
                            stations who were carrying our show. As soon as their network show was
                            over, AT&T would switch us into that path, then just as soon as we
                            were off the air, they would get their networks back. And if we were
                            late, too bad. "We're a little late tonight, folks, goodn

                            This construct and setup plus time use charges used to set us back
                            about $40,000 (in 1970-80 dollars)and more. About 20 years ago we
                            began using satellites for transmission. Rental of a mobile uplink and
                            satellite time runs about $10,000 in current dollars. And we get
                            viewers all over CONUS to boot.

                            I do remember doing basketball games in the old arena in Waco, Texas.
                            There was a TD-2 repeater in the parking lot, and a 124 Ohm coax from
                            the tv truck site to the TD-2. There was a TV modulator/IF generator
                            in a package they shipped around. When it was time to set up, the
                            operator would call up on the order wire, go to one of the
                            transmission lines and pop out an existing radio, plug in the portable
                            unit, and the signal was headed for Dallas and distribution therefrom.
                            I remember watching him one time say ("OK, taking down circuit
                            ABC123", pulled the waveguide, then said an uncivil word and plugged
                            the waveguide back in REAL quick. Said on the order wire "Didn't you
                            say 123? OH - 132! Sorry 'bout 'dat!". He then pulled 132 and plugged
                            in the portable. Turned to me and said "Well, about 600 people just
                            got hung up on..."

                            I've posted 4 pix of some temporary gear in the Photos section. I am
                            told that the 2 dishes, the gray truck and the gear were part of the
                            setup which brought the video of the first H Bomb test back to LA. I
                            don't know whence the PacTel truck came.

                            -- Doc




                            --- In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, Rob Walker <rwalker653@y...> wrote:
                            >
                            > I would guess that early "coast to coast" links would have been very
                            expensive to initiate and maintain, both in manpower and in bandwidth.
                            >
                            > Is there any information on the cost associated with these type of
                            broadcasts? Was this something that LongLines would bill to the
                            television network in one lump sum? And how willing was LongLines to
                            initiate these links, since I'm assuming there wasn't an "always up"
                            coast to coast video channel.
                            >
                          • David I. Emery
                            ... Back in the mid 70s (1975-76) I took a look at the various microwave signals I could see from a hilltop in Somerville overlooking Boston and one of the
                            Message 13 of 29 , Nov 10, 2005
                              On Thu, Nov 10, 2005 at 05:41:42PM -0000, Doc wrote:
                              > I worked for a number of years in network and local broadcasting, with
                              > emphasis on "remotes".
                              >
                              > At ABCNY, we had a number of "always up" channels, such as ANWA and
                              > ACWA, which were Wash to NY and NY to Wash. At one time they went
                              > THROUGH the ABC affiliate in Phila, so Phila could feed in either
                              > direction if needed. There was also the "Round Robin", which was a
                              > loop from NY to PHL to WASH to CLE or PIT (I forget) to CHI to SYR and
                              > back to NY. If Chicago wanted to feed anywhere on the loop, on
                              > coordination with the NY Traffic office, the loop would be opened at
                              > CHI, closed wherever it was open, and all on the RR got the feed.

                              Back in the mid 70s (1975-76) I took a look at the various
                              microwave signals I could see from a hilltop in Somerville overlooking
                              Boston and one of the strongest was an ABC network feed in the 2 ghz
                              area (too long ago to remember exactly what frequency but it might have
                              been around 2150 mhz) which was relayed off the Prudential tower in
                              Boston's Back Bay.

                              As I remember it, there were three carriers up - I think links
                              in three different directions from the top of the building. One was
                              pretty obviously the feed out to the ABC affiliate (WCVB Chan 5) in
                              Needham, but the other two seemed to be links in a private microwave
                              circuit around NE. I never did bother to figure out the other ends
                              of those paths, but the Pru is a rather tall building so they could have
                              been 50-75 miles away or more. One suspects paths up to Portland Me
                              and maybe down to Providence RI at the least.

                              This all suggests to me that in addition to the leased AT&T
                              network video circuits ABC had private microwave networks for feeding
                              video in some areas. NE is pretty densely populated, so we would
                              have been a logical place for such a network I suppose.

                              I remember that during intervals when there was no programming
                              the ABC network video had a camera pointed at a white-board with crude
                              hand scrawled messages on it. All seemed very amateurish compared to
                              the fancy slates and graphics one routinely sees on modern network DVB-S
                              satellite feeds of network programming.

                              --
                              Dave Emery N1PRE, die@... DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass 02493
                              "An empty zombie mind with a forlorn barely readable weatherbeaten
                              'For Rent' sign still vainly flapping outside on the weed encrusted pole - in
                              celebration of what could have been, but wasn't and is not to be now either."
                            • Mark J. Cuccia
                              David I. Emery wrote: (snip) ... I collect old TV and old Radio shows -- I frequently purchase VHS (and I ll soon be buying
                              Message 14 of 29 , Nov 10, 2005
                                "David I. Emery" <die at dieconsulting dot com> wrote:

                                (snip)

                                > I remember that during intervals when there was no programming
                                > the ABC network video had a camera pointed at a white-board with crude
                                > hand scrawled messages on it. All seemed very amateurish compared to
                                > the fancy slates and graphics one routinely sees on modern network DVB-S
                                > satellite feeds of network programming.


                                I collect old TV and old Radio shows -- I frequently purchase VHS (and
                                I'll soon be buying DVDs) from "Shokus Video" in Southern CA
                                (www.shokus.com) which distributes old TV shows usually with original
                                commericals, network logos (NBC peacocks, chimes, snakes; CBS "eye"; etc.
                                Network color promos tags, etc), and the like.

                                One program on tape from "Shokus" is a 1965 (B&W) episode of ABC-TV's
                                "Hollywood Palace" variety show. This was done pre-taped in Hollywood
                                (although the copy that Shokus Video has is a kinescope from the original
                                2" tape), and it appears to have been kinescoped well down the network
                                feed line, because the old-time 5-Kc audio bandwidth was QUITE INTENSE! :)

                                Anyhow, back in 1965 or so, ABC-TV's Saturday night prime-time only ran
                                for 3-hours, not 3-1/2 hours as it did on M-F nights (today most nights
                                the networks can only run 3-hours, since the early 1970s). Anyhow, ABC-TV
                                chose to air prime-time from 7:30-10:30pm Eastern/Pacific, 6:30-9:30pm
                                Central. Most local stations probably ran their final local news at
                                11pm (Eastern/Pacific), 10pm Central. But with ABC signing-off prime-time
                                at 10:30pm E/P (9:30pm C), this gave the locals an extra half-hour of local
                                programming if they wanted to do local news earlier than their CBS or NBC
                                conterpart affil's, or they could still have head-to-head news with the
                                competition at 11pm E/P (10pm C).

                                What ABC-TV from NYC would do in that "extra half hour" was to send
                                closed cct news-film clips of national/international interest for the
                                locals to tape (or kinescope) to run during their local (upcoming) 11pm
                                (10pm Central) newscasts...

                                In that episode of Hollywood Palace (which ran from :30 to :30, but I
                                forget which hours in the evening), at the "mid-break" for local station-ID
                                at the top of the hour, the announcer in NYC came on promo'ing the ABC
                                Sunday Night feature the following night (with a slide card of the movie
                                to be run, with the ABC logo in that slide card), and then there was 62
                                seconds for a station break, until "Hollywood Palace" resumed for its
                                second half.

                                About five seconds into that 62 second station break, a loud high pitched
                                tone (sort of like what we hear during old-time test patterns) began to
                                play, and then a studio camera in New York was scanning a rough torn
                                typewritten sheet of paper! It appeared to be typed on an old manual
                                typewriter, and had a list of program info items AND "news items".
                                The announcer in NYC at master control started reading out exactly what
                                was on that rough torn typewritten page, all about upcoming program notes,
                                ESPECIALLY listing the news items that ABC-TV would be feeding "closed
                                circut" for locals to tape (or kinescope) at 10:30pm E/P (9:30pm C).

                                This lasted for about 45 seconds... some of the news items that ABC-TV
                                would be feeding during the later closed circuit were about "racial unrest
                                in the South", and things about communists and Vietnam.

                                It was effective, using that 62 seconds of "dead air" that the locals would
                                be doing local commercials and local IDs, for ABC-TV to do a brief closed
                                circuit program info update! And they used something rather "crude", a
                                camera scanning a torn off piece of typewritten paper! But still effective.

                                I guess today, ABC/etc. have dedicated "data" channels constantly available
                                to update the affiliates and communicate between control uplink points
                                (NYC, Hollywood, Chicago, DC, etc) of such news and programming update
                                information... I do know that the networks did maintain dial-up TWX or
                                Telex circuits or even dedicated Teletype circuits as well, but I guess
                                on a Saturday night, local affil's master control would be a smaller staff
                                maybe two or three guys drinking coffee to stay awake (or maybe something
                                stronger?), and they would mostly be keeping track of what the network
                                was feeding, mostly around the top or bottom of the hour, to cut-out and
                                cut-back-in to what the network was feeding (back then) DOWN THE TELCO
                                lines, and probably not all that worried about what might be sent to the
                                TTYs probably in another room.

                                mjc




                                __________________________________
                                Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
                                http://mail.yahoo.com
                              • Doc
                                ... The three original networks had their NY to LA links up 24/7. Many of the relay/switching stations were manned, as they were dealing with the normal voice
                                Message 15 of 29 , Nov 10, 2005
                                  --- In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, Rob Walker <rwalker653@y...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > I would guess that early "coast to coast" links would have been very expensive to initiate and maintain, both in manpower and in bandwidth.

                                  The three original networks had their NY to LA links up 24/7. Many of the relay/switching stations were manned, as they were dealing with the normal voice and other comms traffic of the day. If there was no programming there was generally tone and a test signal or something like the WCBS NY telop I used to see when I worked for a CBS outlet. At times we might see local programming, a rehearsal, or different kinds of test signals, just depending upon what was switched up on the router. At ABC, LA to NY was not generally up all the time until the 60s, but it could be whistled up on a moment's notice. So they were paying for the circuit to be available, and presumably would pay more per use. Generally billed in 1/4 hour increments as I remember.
                                  >
                                  > Is there any information on the cost associated with these type of broadcasts? Was this something that LongLines would bill to the television network in one lump sum? And how willing was LongLines to initiate these links, since I'm assuming there wasn't an "always up" coast to coast video channel.
                                  >
                                  I remember learning on the job and reading about it later, that the long lines charges started with construction cost paid one time. Then the use charges were calculated on time used x per mile. To keep a circuit available, you contraced for a minimum hourly use per month. I am sure there are a million different "deals", but it boiled down to cost per mile per time. One time setups were very expensive. If you had a channel in place (the "last mile" from the AT&T facility to your place), it was fairly easy to whistle up a channel. Sometimes if you had a buddy at a switch point, you could get a game or a program fed to you on an idle channel. I used to sit at a TV station in New Orleans and watch a college game not shown in my area if my pal downtown could clear a channel. In payment, I used to send him "art films" on our transmit loop after hours. All for test purposes, of course. Harrumph.

                                  The networks and stations got a monthly bill like everyone else.

                                  In 1962 when we got Cubs games sent down to Houston, they were picked up at Wrigley in color. But AT&T wanted more money to deliver them to us in color than in B&W. We demurred, so they merely clamped out the color burst, as they couldn't filter the 3.58Mc color info, (we paid for a signal X Mc wide). It was a simple matter to lock to the incoming signal and run it through a production switcher and restore the color burst. Bingo. Houston got the games in color. AT&T later dropped the "color" surcharge.

                                  Bill Freiberger
                                  www.dumont.tv
                                  www.dumontnetwork.tv

                                  > Albert LaFrance lafrance@a... wrote:
                                  > ----- Original Message -----




                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Mark J. Cuccia
                                  Doc wrote: (SNIP) ... Back in 1988, A&E-TV ran tape of the first six hours of NBC-TV s coverage of the Kennedy Assassination. It
                                  Message 16 of 29 , Nov 10, 2005
                                    Doc <drdumont at dumont doc net> wrote:

                                    (SNIP)

                                    > In 1962 when we got Cubs games sent down to Houston, they were picked up
                                    > at Wrigley in color. But AT&T wanted more money to deliver them to us in
                                    > color than in B&W. We demurred, so they merely clamped out the color
                                    > burst, as they couldn't filter the 3.58Mc color info, (we paid for a
                                    > signal X Mc wide). It was a simple matter to lock to the incoming signal
                                    > and run it through a production switcher and restore the color burst.
                                    > Bingo. Houston got the games in color. AT&T later dropped the "color"
                                    > surcharge.
                                    >
                                    > Bill Freiberger
                                    > www.dumont.tv
                                    > www.dumontnetwork.tv

                                    Back in 1988, A&E-TV ran tape of the first six hours of NBC-TV's coverage
                                    of the Kennedy Assassination. It was the 25th anniversary in 1988, JFK
                                    being shot on Friday 22-November-1963.

                                    This was pure videotape of live newscasters, with 16-mm film segments
                                    dropped in and still photos/slides. It was all originally being taped on
                                    2" wide reel videotape at NBC/RCA Rockafeller Center "Radio City" studios
                                    in Manhattan.

                                    And all of the NY and DC NBC-TV coverage was being done in B&W.

                                    But when they would occasionally switch to Dallas/Ft.Worth for live
                                    pickups, which were originating mostly from the studios of WBAP-Ft.Worth,
                                    some of those originations were actually *IN COLOR*. I know that NBC
                                    was owned at the time by RCA, the pioneer in (old analog) NTSC Color,
                                    but it wasn't until the mid-1960s when NBC-TV (as well as CBS and ABC)
                                    went truly to 95% COLOR (>50% color prime-time for CBS and ABC which were
                                    virtually all BW prior to 1965). NBC-TV did have "some" color here and
                                    there, increasing in the amount of color vs. BW, since the late 1950s,
                                    but NBC-TV Huntley/Brinkley News and such was still BW in 1963.

                                    Yet the live pick-ups from WBAP-TV Ft.Worth at first were IN COLOR, which
                                    means that a COLOR CAMERA was used by WBAP, and everything else with AT&T
                                    was being used in color in Ft.Worth, sent back to Rockafeller Center in
                                    NYC.

                                    I'd read somewhere that many NBC-TV affiliates throughout Texas and
                                    Oklahoma had MORE LOCAL color programming in the late 1950s and early 1960s
                                    than did the NBC OWNED/OPERATED stations in the biggest markets (NYC,
                                    Chicago, DC, Burbank)... because the Texas (and OK) oil millionaires wanted
                                    color TV's as a "status symbol" and wanted some (local as well as national
                                    network) color shows to view as well! While the city-dwellers (even
                                    wealthy ones) in Chicago, Burbank, NY, DC, weren't all that worried about
                                    the lack of local (or national) color...

                                    BTW, since the original taping was being done "on the scene" at NBC/RCA
                                    Rockafeller Center, the audio was "pure" 15+ Kc bandwidth. When they'd
                                    switch to David Brinkley or Martin Agronsky in Wash.DC, you'd sense a
                                    "faint" amount of old-time "network sounding" 5-Kc audio bandwidth.
                                    But when they'd switch to WBAP Ft.Worth via a much longer AT&T link,
                                    you heard VERY INTENSE 5-Kc bandwidth old-time network-radio/TV audio! :-)

                                    mjc




                                    __________________________________
                                    Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
                                    http://mail.yahoo.com
                                  • Chris Ness
                                    ... I worked for a local ABC affiliate in Mississippi in 1972 for a very short while before running screaming from the state and station; and taking a job in
                                    Message 17 of 29 , Nov 10, 2005
                                      On Thursday 10 November 2005 01:32 pm, David I. Emery wrote:

                                      > This all suggests to me that in addition to the leased AT&T
                                      > network video circuits ABC had private microwave networks for feeding
                                      > video in some areas. NE is pretty densely populated, so we would
                                      > have been a logical place for such a network I suppose.

                                      I worked for a local ABC affiliate in Mississippi in 1972 for a very short
                                      while before running screaming from the state and station; and taking a job
                                      in Europe. Our feeds were the usual bicycled 2" Ampex tape and a station
                                      owned microwave link to the next station up the foodchain (with a repeater
                                      half way to Jackson, MS) and a microwave link to the transmitter 40 miles
                                      west of town in the Delta.

                                      > I remember that during intervals when there was no programming
                                      > the ABC network video had a camera pointed at a white-board with crude
                                      > hand scrawled messages on it. All seemed very amateurish compared to
                                      > the fancy slates and graphics one routinely sees on modern network DVB-S
                                      > satellite feeds of network programming.

                                      I mention this because I remembered it as a black menu board with colored
                                      crayon messages on it. About every minute of time not used for the evening
                                      network feed, news, or soaps was filled with promos, downloading news service
                                      video or news uplinks that weren't aimed at us but we could see anyway. and
                                      when it wasn't the menu board was up. Sometimes we could even see "the arm".
                                      A disembodied arm writing on the board. I even vaguely remember the
                                      background sound - random ambient sound and also the arm gesturing on
                                      occasion. Oh, yeah - I forgot there were occasional ahead of time downloading
                                      of shows. I would expect for efficient use of bandwidth, but I vaguely
                                      remember previews for potential advertisers.
                                      Gosh, 30 years can seem like a long time sometimes.

                                      --
                                      mailto:mness215@... All jobs are equally easy to
                                      the person not doing the work.
                                      Holt's Law
                                    • Chris Ness
                                      ... By 1972 the evening news anchor would sit there during the half hour before the evening news droning over and over Good Evening Atlanta from ABC News ,
                                      Message 18 of 29 , Nov 10, 2005
                                        On Thursday 10 November 2005 02:10 pm, Mark J. Cuccia wrote:
                                        > "David I. Emery" <die at dieconsulting dot com> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > It was effective, using that 62 seconds of "dead air" that the locals would
                                        > be doing local commercials and local IDs, for ABC-TV to do a brief closed
                                        > circuit program info update! And they used something rather "crude", a
                                        > camera scanning a torn off piece of typewritten paper! But still effective.

                                        By 1972 the evening news anchor would sit there during the half hour before
                                        the evening news droning over and over " Good Evening Atlanta from ABC News",
                                        Good Evening Des Moines from ABC News, Good Evening..." I presume that if you
                                        were one of the affiliates who bought that service you got the personalised
                                        plug to cut and paste into your news. We were too small. Because my
                                        background was ETV, I do remember being surprised that ABC paid us to
                                        broadcast the shows! I had always figured we had to pay them.

                                        > I guess today, ABC/etc. have dedicated "data" channels constantly available
                                        > to update the affiliates and communicate between control uplink points
                                        > (NYC, Hollywood, Chicago, DC, etc) of such news and programming update
                                        > information...

                                        I'll put my money on untouched by human hands. Downloading and traffic
                                        all-in-one. Totally computer controlled

                                        > I do know that the networks did maintain dial-up TWX or
                                        > Telex circuits or even dedicated Teletype circuits as well, but I guess
                                        > on a Saturday night, local affil's master control would be a smaller staff
                                        > maybe two or three guys drinking coffee to stay awake (or maybe something
                                        > stronger?), and they would mostly be keeping track of what the network
                                        > was feeding, mostly around the top or bottom of the hour, to cut-out and
                                        > cut-back-in to what the network was feeding (back then) DOWN THE TELCO
                                        > lines, and probably not all that worried about what might be sent to the
                                        > TTYs probably in another room.
                                        >
                                        It was all programmed by "traffic" who would provide a typed or occasionally
                                        hand written list of what to do when. Their info was Telexed down from
                                        network to out traffic dept. The menuboard what let us know what was coming
                                        up as a double check and to let us know of on-the-fly changes.
                                        --
                                        mailto:mness215@... All jobs are equally easy to
                                        the person not doing the work.
                                        Holt's Law
                                      • Chris Ness
                                        ... WBAP got their first color camera, a TK-40, one of the first two non-experimental color cameras anywhere, in April 1954.
                                        Message 19 of 29 , Nov 10, 2005
                                          On Thursday 10 November 2005 03:30 pm, Mark J. Cuccia wrote:

                                          > But when they would occasionally switch to Dallas/Ft.Worth for live
                                          > pickups, which were originating mostly from the studios of WBAP-Ft.Worth,
                                          > some of those originations were actually *IN COLOR*.

                                          WBAP got their first color camera, a TK-40, one of the first two
                                          non-experimental color cameras anywhere, in April 1954.
                                        • Doc
                                          Hi, Mark! Yes, All three stations in Dallas had color gear in their studios. I believe WBAP (Ft. Worth) and WKY got the first TK-44 RCA color cameras shipped
                                          Message 20 of 29 , Nov 10, 2005
                                            Hi, Mark!
                                            Yes, All three stations in Dallas had color gear in their studios. I
                                            believe WBAP (Ft. Worth) and WKY got the first TK-44 RCA color cameras
                                            shipped to other than a network. However, there were no color mobile
                                            units in Texas at the time. I don't think anyone was using color
                                            reversal film at that time, I know they weren't in Houston where I was
                                            working. INcidentally, within the last 10 years, WBAP cleaned out the
                                            basement (literally) and found case upon case of 2" tape, a lot of
                                            which was all Kennedy shooting footage. They actually got it to play
                                            once at The Dub House in Dallas and a lot of the footage made it into
                                            the special. The reason so much of the footage was recorded in NY was
                                            that it was common practice to keep the network lines up and feed
                                            anything you could to "The Net", since they paid big time for footage.

                                            In the early days, audio went over separate voice channels, and one
                                            can imagine the bandwith limiting which went on over the long lines.
                                            It was sometime in the mid 70s when audio began riding on subcarriers
                                            injected on the video at the pickup site. I once had to explain to one
                                            of the craftsmen on site why the "sync was too thick".
                                            -- Doc


                                            --- In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, "Mark J. Cuccia"
                                            <markjcuccia@y...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > Doc <drdumont at dumont doc net> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > (SNIP)

                                            > Back in 1988, A&E-TV ran tape of the first six hours of NBC-TV's
                                            coverage
                                            > of the Kennedy Assassination. It was the 25th anniversary in 1988, JFK
                                            > being shot on Friday 22-November-1963.
                                            >
                                            > This was pure videotape of live newscasters, with 16-mm film segments
                                            > dropped in and still photos/slides. It was all originally being taped on
                                            > 2" wide reel videotape at NBC/RCA Rockafeller Center "Radio City"
                                            studios
                                            > in Manhattan.
                                            >
                                            > And all of the NY and DC NBC-TV coverage was being done in B&W.
                                            >
                                            > But when they would occasionally switch to Dallas/Ft.Worth for live
                                            > pickups, which were originating mostly from the studios of
                                            WBAP-Ft.Worth,
                                            > some of those originations were actually *IN COLOR*. I know that NBC
                                            > was owned at the time by RCA, the pioneer in (old analog) NTSC Color,
                                            > but it wasn't until the mid-1960s when NBC-TV (as well as CBS and ABC)
                                            > went truly to 95% COLOR (>50% color prime-time for CBS and ABC which
                                            were
                                            > virtually all BW prior to 1965). NBC-TV did have "some" color here and
                                            > there, increasing in the amount of color vs. BW, since the late 1950s,
                                            > but NBC-TV Huntley/Brinkley News and such was still BW in 1963.
                                            >
                                            > Yet the live pick-ups from WBAP-TV Ft.Worth at first were IN COLOR,
                                            which
                                            > means that a COLOR CAMERA was used by WBAP, and everything else with
                                            AT&T
                                            > was being used in color in Ft.Worth, sent back to Rockafeller Center in
                                            > NYC.
                                            >
                                            > I'd read somewhere that many NBC-TV affiliates throughout Texas and
                                            > Oklahoma had MORE LOCAL color programming in the late 1950s and
                                            early 1960s
                                            > than did the NBC OWNED/OPERATED stations in the biggest markets (NYC,
                                            > Chicago, DC, Burbank)... because the Texas (and OK) oil millionaires
                                            wanted
                                            > color TV's as a "status symbol" and wanted some (local as well as
                                            national
                                            > network) color shows to view as well! While the city-dwellers (even
                                            > wealthy ones) in Chicago, Burbank, NY, DC, weren't all that worried
                                            about
                                            > the lack of local (or national) color...
                                            >
                                            > BTW, since the original taping was being done "on the scene" at NBC/RCA
                                            > Rockafeller Center, the audio was "pure" 15+ Kc bandwidth. When they'd
                                            > switch to David Brinkley or Martin Agronsky in Wash.DC, you'd sense a
                                            > "faint" amount of old-time "network sounding" 5-Kc audio bandwidth.
                                            > But when they'd switch to WBAP Ft.Worth via a much longer AT&T link,
                                            > you heard VERY INTENSE 5-Kc bandwidth old-time network-radio/TV
                                            audio! :-)
                                            >
                                            > mjc
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > __________________________________
                                            > Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
                                            > http://mail.yahoo.com
                                            >
                                          • Doc
                                            Bill L may have a point, but since each video channel displaced 600 or so voice channels, Ma was always loath to relinquish the voice channels for video unless
                                            Message 21 of 29 , Nov 10, 2005
                                              Bill L may have a point, but since each video channel displaced 600 or
                                              so voice channels, Ma was always loath to relinquish the voice
                                              channels for video unless we paid BIG $$$. I'm sure the impetus of the
                                              coast to coast video channels had a lot to do with the speed at which
                                              the expansion was made, and maybe decisions to expand to smaller
                                              cities were influenced by pressure to get network service there, but
                                              if you read the history of the microwave and cable carrier systems,
                                              they were always trying to push more and more down that little pipe...

                                              --- In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Luebkemann" <bill@l...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > I believe AT&T only built this network because the TV networks were
                                              willing
                                              > to commit to a 20-year contract to use it. If it weren't for that,
                                              it might
                                              > not have ever been built.
                                              >
                                              > Bill L.
                                              >
                                              >
                                            • Doc
                                              The time between network shows has been used for closed circuit feeds of commercials, late breaking cue rundowns (such as the timing sheet for Carson), and
                                              Message 22 of 29 , Nov 10, 2005
                                                The time between network shows has been used for closed circuit feeds
                                                of commercials, late breaking cue rundowns (such as the timing sheet
                                                for Carson), and other uses since day one. ABC also had a tone and
                                                decoder which would alert MC operators to check the net during breaks.
                                                I wrote Mark that ABC used a telop for years after electronic
                                                typewriting came into fashion. Electronic devices had to be operated
                                                by expensive Union people.
                                                ABC did have a private TTY line, but it was in the traffic office
                                                downstairs, used mostly for sales and continuity/traffic purposes.

                                                Those "Good Evening, <insert your town here> things lasted all the way
                                                through MOnday Night Football. We had to set up for 2 hours of that
                                                plus the individual interviews before each game. May still be doing it.

                                                Today a lot of cueing and info is sent over the vertical sunc interval
                                                using VITS. That is all that business in 2 or 4 lines at the top of
                                                your screen. You can send a lot of info in 4 x 62.5 usec. Also with
                                                all the digital stuff nowadays, you are right, lots of cueing and
                                                other data is right in the video datastream.
                                                You are right, too, it is now all automated, just a computer operator
                                                or two on duty. And some Centralcast facilities operate up to ten TV
                                                stations where no one is on duty. Hundreds of miles away. Don't need
                                                all those damned Engineers sitting around. Until the transmitter
                                                barfs, or the transmission line burns up, and then they need us. Big
                                                Time. For a while at least. And then it is back to "Dogs, Old Soldiers
                                                and Engineers Keep Off the Grass".
                                                -- Doc



                                                --- In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, Chris Ness <mness215@c...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > On Thursday 10 November 2005 02:10 pm, Mark J. Cuccia wrote:
                                                > > "David I. Emery" <die at dieconsulting dot com> wrote:
                                                > >
                                                > > It was effective, using that 62 seconds of "dead air" that the
                                                locals would
                                                > > be doing local commercials and local IDs, for ABC-TV to do a brief
                                                closed
                                                > > circuit program info update! And they used something rather "crude", a
                                                > > camera scanning a torn off piece of typewritten paper! But still
                                                effective.
                                                >
                                                > By 1972 the evening news anchor would sit there during the half
                                                hour before
                                                > the evening news droning over and over " Good Evening Atlanta from
                                                ABC News",
                                                > Good Evening Des Moines from ABC News, Good Evening..." I presume
                                                that if you
                                                > were one of the affiliates who bought that service you got the
                                                personalised
                                                > plug to cut and paste into your news. We were too small. Because my
                                                > background was ETV, I do remember being surprised that ABC paid us to
                                                > broadcast the shows! I had always figured we had to pay them.
                                                >
                                                > > I guess today, ABC/etc. have dedicated "data" channels constantly
                                                available
                                                > > to update the affiliates and communicate between control uplink points
                                                > > (NYC, Hollywood, Chicago, DC, etc) of such news and programming update
                                                > > information...
                                                >
                                                > I'll put my money on untouched by human hands. Downloading and traffic
                                                > all-in-one. Totally computer controlled
                                                >
                                                > > I do know that the networks did maintain dial-up TWX or
                                                > > Telex circuits or even dedicated Teletype circuits as well, but I
                                                guess
                                                > > on a Saturday night, local affil's master control would be a
                                                smaller staff
                                                > > maybe two or three guys drinking coffee to stay awake (or maybe
                                                something
                                                > > stronger?), and they would mostly be keeping track of what the network
                                                > > was feeding, mostly around the top or bottom of the hour, to
                                                cut-out and
                                                > > cut-back-in to what the network was feeding (back then) DOWN THE TELCO
                                                > > lines, and probably not all that worried about what might be sent
                                                to the
                                                > > TTYs probably in another room.
                                                > >
                                                > It was all programmed by "traffic" who would provide a typed or
                                                occasionally
                                                > hand written list of what to do when. Their info was Telexed down from
                                                > network to out traffic dept. The menuboard what let us know what was
                                                coming
                                                > up as a double check and to let us know of on-the-fly changes.
                                                > --
                                                > mailto:mness215@c... All jobs are equally easy to
                                                > the person not doing the work.
                                                > Holt's Law
                                                >
                                              • Matthew Sadler
                                                Somewhat OT in continuing this discussion, but I m the list owner, so there. :) Anyhow, I ve been a master control operator at both NBC and ABC affiliates
                                                Message 23 of 29 , Nov 12, 2005
                                                  Somewhat OT in continuing this discussion, but I'm the list owner, so
                                                  there. :)

                                                  Anyhow, I've been a master control operator at both NBC and ABC
                                                  affiliates within the past four years (left all that behind just last
                                                  week to start working as a sysadmin for the local institution of higher
                                                  learning, running their debit card system). NBC is using an
                                                  internet-based instant messaging system with confirmation (you have to
                                                  click Acknowledge or it keeps chiming) as well as another system which
                                                  sends data down on their digital Ku network feeds and displays on a
                                                  Windows PC.

                                                  ABC was still using a closed-caption like system, which also printed out
                                                  messages on a receipt printer. The ABC system was nicer... they would
                                                  actually give you some warning and set off a rather loud alarm when a
                                                  special report was coming down - NBC, OTOH, would tell you that they
                                                  might do a special report at some time soon, then tell you to monitor a
                                                  specific network channel and when they were going to do the SR, they'd
                                                  start flashing the slate. Needless to say, with everything else going
                                                  on, SRs got missed quite often.

                                                  --mws
                                                  http://www.scanchattanooga.com/

                                                  Doc wrote:
                                                  > Today a lot of cueing and info is sent over the vertical sunc interval
                                                  > using VITS. That is all that business in 2 or 4 lines at the top of
                                                  > your screen. You can send a lot of info in 4 x 62.5 usec. Also with
                                                  > all the digital stuff nowadays, you are right, lots of cueing and
                                                  > other data is right in the video datastream.
                                                  > You are right, too, it is now all automated, just a computer operator
                                                  > or two on duty. And some Centralcast facilities operate up to ten TV
                                                  > stations where no one is on duty. Hundreds of miles away. Don't need
                                                  > all those damned Engineers sitting around. Until the transmitter
                                                  > barfs, or the transmission line burns up, and then they need us. Big
                                                  > Time. For a while at least. And then it is back to "Dogs, Old Soldiers
                                                  > and Engineers Keep Off the Grass".
                                                • Mark J. Cuccia
                                                  ... OF COURSE, NBC would HAVE to chime .... to the musical notes G-E-C , sounding like Bong-BING-bung ! :-) (sorry, couldn t resist!) mjc
                                                  Message 24 of 29 , Nov 12, 2005
                                                    Matthew Sadler <mws at scanchattanooga dot com> wrote:

                                                    > [Anyhow] I've been a master control operator at both NBC and ABC
                                                    > affiliates within the past four years (left all that behind just last
                                                    > week to start working as a sysadmin for the local institution of higher
                                                    > learning, running their debit card system). NBC is using an
                                                    > internet-based instant messaging system with confirmation (you have to
                                                    > click Acknowledge or it keeps chiming)

                                                    OF COURSE, NBC would HAVE to "chime"....
                                                    to the musical notes 'G-E-C', sounding like 'Bong-BING-bung'! :-)

                                                    (sorry, couldn't resist!)

                                                    mjc



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                                                  • Mark J. Cuccia
                                                    ... It almost seems like NBC has a trend of having somewhat inferior methods when compared to other networks.... On the RADIO side... When CBS Radio began
                                                    Message 25 of 29 , Nov 12, 2005
                                                      Matthew Sadler <mws at @scanchattanooga dot com> wrote:

                                                      > Somewhat OT in continuing this discussion, but I'm the list owner, so
                                                      > there. :)
                                                      >
                                                      > Anyhow, I've been a master control operator at both NBC and ABC
                                                      > affiliates within the past four years (left all that behind just last
                                                      > week to start working as a sysadmin for the local institution of higher
                                                      > learning, running their debit card system). NBC is using an
                                                      > internet-based instant messaging system with confirmation (you have to
                                                      > click Acknowledge or it keeps chiming) as well as another system which
                                                      > sends data down on their digital Ku network feeds and displays on a
                                                      > Windows PC.
                                                      >
                                                      > ABC was still using a closed-caption like system, which also printed out
                                                      > messages on a receipt printer. The ABC system was nicer... they would
                                                      > actually give you some warning and set off a rather loud alarm when a
                                                      > special report was coming down - NBC, OTOH, would tell you that they
                                                      > might do a special report at some time soon, then tell you to monitor a
                                                      > specific network channel and when they were going to do the SR, they'd
                                                      > start flashing the slate. Needless to say, with everything else going
                                                      > on, SRs got missed quite often.
                                                      >
                                                      > --mws
                                                      > http://www.scanchattanooga.com/


                                                      It almost seems like NBC has a "trend" of having somewhat inferior methods
                                                      when compared to other networks....

                                                      On the RADIO side...

                                                      When CBS Radio began their "NetALERT" system of automated cue'ing which
                                                      could also alert affiliates that a special bulletin would be coming up
                                                      momentarily (such as an incident of a shooting in Dallas TX on Fri 22 Nov
                                                      in 1963)... when CBS Radio started their NetALERT system in 1961, the
                                                      trade magazine "BROADCASTING" had an article on the new CBS Radio NetALERT.
                                                      It stated that it was more advanced than NBC Radio's "Hotline" system which
                                                      had been in use by RCA's network in 1956. NBC Radio's "Hotline" could only
                                                      be used to alert stations about special bulletins and such only if the
                                                      network were already in the process of feeding a program -- By 1956, many
                                                      more radio stations were NOT carrying more and more programs offered by the
                                                      radio networks, instead of just switching over large amounts of their time
                                                      to whatever the radio network was feeding down the line. So, for those
                                                      stations NOT carrying a program at that moment, if NBC Radio had to break
                                                      into their own network feed with a special report, those stations NOT
                                                      already carrying that program feed could be alerted to a bulletin. BUT, for
                                                      those times when there was no program at that moment, the initial version
                                                      of NBC Radio's Hotline system couldn't be used to automatically alert all
                                                      stations. I don't know the specifics/details, only that I remember reading
                                                      this or something along those lines in an issue of "BROADCASTING" magazine
                                                      dated 1960 or so about changes at CBS Radio in programming, news, and the
                                                      upcoming NetALERT cuing system.

                                                      CBS Radio continues to use a NetALERT system, the original version of 1961
                                                      was replaced with a more enhanced version in Spring 1978... both the old
                                                      and current systems used a "chirp" or "squeak" or "bleep" like tone of
                                                      multiple frequencies.

                                                      NBC Radio's Hotline system (at least in the 1970s/80s/90s era) used a
                                                      format that apparantly is more advanced than their 1956 version. I remember
                                                      hearing a multi-frequency "gurgling" tone at various times during a program
                                                      those "gurgle" tones being various cue'ing or alerting signals.

                                                      Before CBS took over Westwood/Mutual, the Mutual Broadcasting System since
                                                      teh 1970s (at least) used an automation cue'ing/alerting system called
                                                      "MutuAlert", which used pairs of consecutive "high/low" tones, different
                                                      frequency pairs for different functions, which sounded like "BEE-doop",
                                                      and even Mutual casually referred to their system's tones as those
                                                      "BEE-doop" tones.

                                                      And ABC Radio starting circa 1968 started using these high-pitched
                                                      "buzzing" tones, that almost sounded like an insect flying about.
                                                      The system was enhanced in 1982/83 with a brief 'FSK' burst tone.
                                                      Since the mid-1990s, ABC Radio's latest generation of automation cue'ing
                                                      is totally inaudible, feeding over a separate data channel on their
                                                      RCA/GE satellite channels.

                                                      At times, some smaller or "ad-hoc" radio networks used specific telephone
                                                      touchtones to alert or cue stations and programs. And in the 1980s/90s,
                                                      many Cable-TV channels (prior to more advanced digital automation) used
                                                      audible *strings* of DTMF (touchtones) for automation/cuing.

                                                      And of course, in years past, all of the major radio and TV networks used
                                                      simple tones at the top of the hour as simple time-signals, these began
                                                      LONG before later electronic automation tones. CBS Radio is now the ONLY
                                                      network (radio or TV) that I'm aware of that still has a top-of-hour time
                                                      tone, it is still the 440-Hz "A-above-middle-C" *BONG* tone. That CBS BONG
                                                      dates back to the late 1930s on the Columbia Broadcasting System, and prior
                                                      to the mid-1980s or so was also used at the top-of-the-hour on the
                                                      CBS Television Network as well.

                                                      mjc




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                                                    • Jim Burks
                                                      ... It was important enough to them that they built clock-operated machines to send the chimes out: http://www.oldradio.com/archives/stations/sf/chimes.htm
                                                      Message 26 of 29 , Nov 14, 2005
                                                        Matthew Sadler <mws at scanchattanooga dot com> wrote:

                                                        > OF COURSE, NBC would HAVE to "chime"....
                                                        > to the musical notes 'G-E-C', sounding like 'Bong-BING-bung'! :-)

                                                        It was important enough to them that they built
                                                        clock-operated machines to send the chimes out:

                                                        http://www.oldradio.com/archives/stations/sf/chimes.htm

                                                        Listening to modern radio makes me nostalgic for the
                                                        old days when people took this stuff seriously.

                                                        Jim Burks
                                                      • s92187
                                                        ... Coast to coast television became possible with the completion of the first transcontinental microwave route, which was constructed in stages. The first
                                                        Message 27 of 29 , Nov 26, 2005
                                                          --- In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, David Lesher <wb8foz@n...> wrote:
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > What do we know about the history of coast-to-coast TV?
                                                          > When was the first use?
                                                          > The first NATIONWIDE use?
                                                          >
                                                          > I'm thinking of the Army-McCarthy hearings as an early watershed,
                                                          > but I'm not sure.
                                                          >
                                                          >

                                                          Coast to coast television became possible with the completion of the
                                                          first transcontinental microwave route, which was constructed in
                                                          stages. The first section built ran from New York to Chicago, and
                                                          became operational in September 1950. This route paralleled an L-1
                                                          coaxial route constructed the year before which was already carrying
                                                          network television programming between New York and Chicago, and
                                                          several points in between. Television was eventually transferred
                                                          over to the microwave route once it became operational.

                                                          Within a month or two from the completion of the New York to Chicago
                                                          section, the Chicago to Omaha section was operational westbound only,
                                                          most likely to bring television as far west as Omaha.

                                                          By September 1951 the entire route from New York to San Francisco was
                                                          running. The type TD-2 microwave radio equipment used on this route
                                                          was designed to carry up to 6 broadband channels in each direction,
                                                          consisting of 5 working channels and one protection or spare
                                                          channel. TD-2 was modular: additional channels could be later added
                                                          if an initial installation began with less than the full complement
                                                          of six. Probably for economic and manufacturing capacity reasons,
                                                          the transcontinental route between Chicago and San Francisco opened
                                                          with only two TD-2 channels in each direction, one message
                                                          (telephone) channel and one protection channel. In the fall of 1951
                                                          television programming was being carried on a regular basis,
                                                          beginning with the televised Japanese Peace Treaty Conference. At
                                                          first television had to make use of the protection channel until such
                                                          time as additional TD-2 channels could be installed. Normally the
                                                          protection channel was always available on a stand by basis to take
                                                          over if there was a failure in any part of the regular message
                                                          channel. Recently Jack Berg, a retired AT&T technician (later AT&T
                                                          manager), related to me what was required to make the early coast-to-
                                                          coast broadcasts possible:

                                                          While television was being carried on the protection channel, it was
                                                          imperative that the message channel and the protection channel remain
                                                          operational at all times. This required that all normally unmanned
                                                          repeater stations west of Chicago, approximately 67 locations, be
                                                          manned whenever television was being transmitted, typically several
                                                          hours per day. Each technician had spare parts and test equipment on
                                                          hand to quickly restore service if a failure occurred at his
                                                          station. This was a temporary arrangement until such time as
                                                          additional TD-2 channels could be installed. Jack worked out of the
                                                          Chicago office, he and a number of his coworkers were assigned to
                                                          temporarily man the repeater stations in Nebraska and part of
                                                          Colorado. The people out of the Chicago office were assigned to
                                                          various sites between Chicago and Eastern Colorado, as there was not
                                                          enough manpower locally to cover all of the stations. Jack arrived
                                                          by train at 2AM in Sidney, NE, found the hotel he was to stay at, and
                                                          upon entering the hotel found no one around, just a key laying on the
                                                          front desk with a note listing his room number. The next day he
                                                          traveled by car to the Atwood, CO repeater, staying each night in
                                                          nearby Sterling, CO. After a week or so he was able to get
                                                          transferred to the Julesburg, CO site, which put him close enough to
                                                          the Ogallala, NE repeater where a friend and coworker from back in
                                                          Chicago was stationed that they could meet up for lunch on
                                                          occasion. While working at Julesburg he stayed in a basement room
                                                          of a widowed lady living in the area. Her house did not have a
                                                          telephone, so if an equipment failure alarm came in after hours, word
                                                          was telephoned to Sidney and then to Julesburg, from there a local
                                                          taxi driver was then dispatched to the house where Jack was staying
                                                          with instructions to go in and wake him up, then Jack would then
                                                          drive the Company vehicle to the repeater site.

                                                          All but three of the repeater stations between Omaha and Denver had a
                                                          steel tower with a small "cabin" located within the tower framework
                                                          about 100 feet above ground. The cabin contained the TD-2 bays, C-1
                                                          alarm bay and order wire equipment. There was also a small ground
                                                          level building at these sites containing the back up power engine and
                                                          generator, rectifiers and batteries. The cabin was reached via a
                                                          walk up stairway. Jack relates that he had to spend several hours
                                                          per day in the tower cabin, available to quickly restore any possible
                                                          failure in the TD-2 repeaters. He remembers at least one harrowing
                                                          descent down an icy stairway at night. When he wasn't in the cabin,
                                                          Jack spent the remainder of his working hours doing routine
                                                          maintenance on the equipment in the ground level building. Jack
                                                          worked at the two Colorado microwave sites for several weeks, he was
                                                          then replaced by another technician and returned to Chicago. AT&T
                                                          eventually got additional TD-2 channels installed on the route, doing
                                                          so permanently freed up the protection channel and made it
                                                          unnecessary to actively man each repeater.

                                                          Terry Michaels
                                                        • s92187
                                                          ... the ... carrying ... Chicago ... only, ... was ... route ... added ... 1951 ... such ... to- ... was ... remain ... on ... the ... not ... and ... the ...
                                                          Message 28 of 29 , Dec 18, 2005
                                                            --- In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, "s92187" <tmichaels@t...> wrote:
                                                            >
                                                            > --- In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, David Lesher <wb8foz@n...>
                                                            wrote:
                                                            > >
                                                            > >
                                                            > > What do we know about the history of coast-to-coast TV?
                                                            > > When was the first use?
                                                            > > The first NATIONWIDE use?
                                                            > >
                                                            > > I'm thinking of the Army-McCarthy hearings as an early watershed,
                                                            > > but I'm not sure.
                                                            > >
                                                            > >
                                                            >
                                                            > Coast to coast television became possible with the completion of
                                                            the
                                                            > first transcontinental microwave route, which was constructed in
                                                            > stages. The first section built ran from New York to Chicago, and
                                                            > became operational in September 1950. This route paralleled an L-1
                                                            > coaxial route constructed the year before which was already
                                                            carrying
                                                            > network television programming between New York and Chicago, and
                                                            > several points in between. Television was eventually transferred
                                                            > over to the microwave route once it became operational.
                                                            >
                                                            > Within a month or two from the completion of the New York to
                                                            Chicago
                                                            > section, the Chicago to Omaha section was operational westbound
                                                            only,
                                                            > most likely to bring television as far west as Omaha.
                                                            >
                                                            > By September 1951 the entire route from New York to San Francisco
                                                            was
                                                            > running. The type TD-2 microwave radio equipment used on this
                                                            route
                                                            > was designed to carry up to 6 broadband channels in each direction,
                                                            > consisting of 5 working channels and one protection or spare
                                                            > channel. TD-2 was modular: additional channels could be later
                                                            added
                                                            > if an initial installation began with less than the full complement
                                                            > of six. Probably for economic and manufacturing capacity reasons,
                                                            > the transcontinental route between Chicago and San Francisco opened
                                                            > with only two TD-2 channels in each direction, one message
                                                            > (telephone) channel and one protection channel. In the fall of
                                                            1951
                                                            > television programming was being carried on a regular basis,
                                                            > beginning with the televised Japanese Peace Treaty Conference. At
                                                            > first television had to make use of the protection channel until
                                                            such
                                                            > time as additional TD-2 channels could be installed. Normally the
                                                            > protection channel was always available on a stand by basis to take
                                                            > over if there was a failure in any part of the regular message
                                                            > channel. Recently Jack Berg, a retired AT&T technician (later AT&T
                                                            > manager), related to me what was required to make the early coast-
                                                            to-
                                                            > coast broadcasts possible:
                                                            >
                                                            > While television was being carried on the protection channel, it
                                                            was
                                                            > imperative that the message channel and the protection channel
                                                            remain
                                                            > operational at all times. This required that all normally unmanned
                                                            > repeater stations west of Chicago, approximately 67 locations, be
                                                            > manned whenever television was being transmitted, typically several
                                                            > hours per day. Each technician had spare parts and test equipment
                                                            on
                                                            > hand to quickly restore service if a failure occurred at his
                                                            > station. This was a temporary arrangement until such time as
                                                            > additional TD-2 channels could be installed. Jack worked out of
                                                            the
                                                            > Chicago office, he and a number of his coworkers were assigned to
                                                            > temporarily man the repeater stations in Nebraska and part of
                                                            > Colorado. The people out of the Chicago office were assigned to
                                                            > various sites between Chicago and Eastern Colorado, as there was
                                                            not
                                                            > enough manpower locally to cover all of the stations. Jack arrived
                                                            > by train at 2AM in Sidney, NE, found the hotel he was to stay at,
                                                            and
                                                            > upon entering the hotel found no one around, just a key laying on
                                                            the
                                                            > front desk with a note listing his room number. The next day he
                                                            > traveled by car to the Atwood, CO repeater, staying each night in
                                                            > nearby Sterling, CO. After a week or so he was able to get
                                                            > transferred to the Julesburg, CO site, which put him close enough
                                                            to
                                                            > the Ogallala, NE repeater where a friend and coworker from back in
                                                            > Chicago was stationed that they could meet up for lunch on
                                                            > occasion. While working at Julesburg he stayed in a basement room
                                                            > of a widowed lady living in the area. Her house did not have a
                                                            > telephone, so if an equipment failure alarm came in after hours,
                                                            word
                                                            > was telephoned to Sidney and then to Julesburg, from there a local
                                                            > taxi driver was then dispatched to the house where Jack was staying
                                                            > with instructions to go in and wake him up, then Jack would then
                                                            > drive the Company vehicle to the repeater site.
                                                            >
                                                            > All but three of the repeater stations between Omaha and Denver had
                                                            a
                                                            > steel tower with a small "cabin" located within the tower framework
                                                            > about 100 feet above ground. The cabin contained the TD-2 bays, C-
                                                            1
                                                            > alarm bay and order wire equipment. There was also a small ground
                                                            > level building at these sites containing the back up power engine
                                                            and
                                                            > generator, rectifiers and batteries. The cabin was reached via a
                                                            > walk up stairway. Jack relates that he had to spend several hours
                                                            > per day in the tower cabin, available to quickly restore any
                                                            possible
                                                            > failure in the TD-2 repeaters. He remembers at least one harrowing
                                                            > descent down an icy stairway at night. When he wasn't in the
                                                            cabin,
                                                            > Jack spent the remainder of his working hours doing routine
                                                            > maintenance on the equipment in the ground level building. Jack
                                                            > worked at the two Colorado microwave sites for several weeks, he
                                                            was
                                                            > then replaced by another technician and returned to Chicago. AT&T
                                                            > eventually got additional TD-2 channels installed on the route,
                                                            doing
                                                            > so permanently freed up the protection channel and made it
                                                            > unnecessary to actively man each repeater.
                                                            >
                                                            > Terry Michaels
                                                            >


                                                            I recently discovered a few additional details about this subject in
                                                            the Autumn 1951 issue of Bell Telephone Magazine. The magazine
                                                            stated that commercial telephone service was inaugurated on the
                                                            transcontinental microwave route on August 17, 1951. The first usage
                                                            of the microwave route for TV programming was on September 4, 1951,
                                                            when facilities were provided, at the request of the State
                                                            Department, to permit the transcontinental telecast of President
                                                            Truman's opening address to the Japanese Peace Treaty Conference in
                                                            San Francisco and several of the succeeding sessions. Regular coast
                                                            to coast service in both directions was provided by the end of the
                                                            month.

                                                            Terry
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