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US radar coverage

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  • doug humphrey
    in reply to both of the below messages, we don t even have 24x7 radar coverage of our borders TODAY, so it isn t hard to see that they were not able to do it
    Message 1 of 5 , Nov 1, 2005
      in reply to both of the below messages, we don't even have 24x7
      radar coverage of our borders TODAY, so it isn't hard to see that
      they were not able to do it way back when.

      it is less a question of technology than it is the engineering reality
      and cost of covering such long borders, which tend to be straight
      lines, with radars, which tend to be circular arcs.

      On a good day, with all of the radars running (and this includes radars
      belonging to 4 or 5 different government agencies - no one agency
      covers it or even comes close) we have almost 95% coverage of the
      southern borders - we won't even address the canadian board, which
      is only minimally under any radar coverage at all.

      Most days are not that good - these radars for the most part have NO
      backup radars or coverage overlap - when one is down, an arc in the
      coverage is wide open. Some of these are old radars, they fail often.

      NORAD coordinates all of this stuff, and people there could (but likely
      won't) discuss it much - but off the record, us border radar coverage
      in better than "a joke" but not by much.

      doug


      >
      > Message: 2
      > Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 11:14:46 -0500
      > From: Kenneth Coney <superc@...>
      > Subject: Re: US Ground Observer Corps
      >
      > Radar technology was still in infancy when the Cold War began as WW2
      > ended. Huge sections of our coast lines had no radar coverage and
      > certainly nothing capable of detecting enemy bombers coming in low.
      > Shades of Doolittle. Until radar and other forms of technology caught
      > up to the threat coast spotters and telephones were the best thing out
      > there. An incoming flight of B-29 clones passing over Oregon was
      > probably not going to turn around over Oregon and a phone call would
      > indeed give time for someone to scramble. Coming in over Oregon
      > instead of proceeding straight to San Diego or Los Angeles and entering
      > US airspace at the target area would have indeed allowed evasion of
      > radars scanning the coast lines in those areas in those early days.
      > Similar on the early East Coast, where the target value was high,
      > though
      > the perceived threat was less.
      >



      > Message: 4
      > Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 18:29:50 EST
      > From: hooligan@...
      > Subject: Re: US Ground Observer Corps
      >
      >
      > I think the technology was there (SCR-296 RADARs were employed during
      > WW-II
      > along the USA for coastal defense of major military-industrial
      > complexes,
      > there were Air Warning Stations, etc.) before the Cold War threat.
      > But the
      > spotters were extremely cheap, & the Filter Centers served multiple
      > purposes, so
      > they operated concurrently with technology.
      >
      > One GOC station I researched along the California coastline turned
      > out to
      > be nothing more than a raised, covered wooden platform about a half
      > mile in
      > from the Pacific Ocean, with a phone drop going to the Mackay Wireless
      > (KFS,
      > Half Moon Bay Radio) maritime station near Tunitas Creek. The Army
      > Air
      > Force had an Air Warning Station located about 10 miles N of it, which
      > in the
      > early 1950s the USAF modernized as part of the LASHUP program. That
      > site was
      > phased out by Mill Valley AFS in 1951. A few years later, Nike RADAR
      > sites
      > started popping up near major cities, plus ships & aircraft doing
      > RADAR picket
      > sorties, etc. all taking place before the GOC/Skywatch was phased out.
      >
      >
      > Tim
    • James Browne
      It appears someone thought the Mexican Air Force was a greater threat than the fellows way up *past *the Canadians.... Funny, I d think the situation would be
      Message 2 of 5 , Nov 1, 2005
        It appears someone thought the Mexican Air Force was a greater threat than
        the fellows way up *past *the Canadians.... Funny, I'd think the situation
        would be reversed (with the exception of Cuba). How much of that radar is
        Nike era?
        Just for kicks, does anyone know how much of that area is also covered by
        SAM's of any kind?


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • David Lesher
        ... Indeed. The S. Fla airspace could be said to glow, it s so lit up. But despite that, a Cuban pilot defected in the early 90 s in a MIG, and the FIRST
        Message 3 of 5 , Nov 1, 2005
          Speaking on Deep Background, the Press Secretary whispered:
          >
          > On a good day, with all of the radars running (and this includes radars
          > belonging to 4 or 5 different government agencies - no one agency
          > covers it or even comes close) we have almost 95% coverage of the
          > southern borders - we won't even address the canadian board, which
          > is only minimally under any radar coverage at all.

          Indeed. The S. Fla airspace could be said to glow, it's so lit up.
          But despite that, a Cuban pilot defected in the early 90's in a
          MIG, and the FIRST anyone knew about was when a Navy pilot doing
          touch and goes [landing practice..] radioed the tower "You guys
          know anything about the MIG that just blew by me in the pattern?"

          And a few weeks later, another defector came over in an AN-2
          [12-pax biplane] and without notice, showed up on approach at MIA...




          --
          A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@...
          & no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
          Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
          is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
        • Rob Walker
          Hi All... I m a lurker and very infrequent poster. All of the conversation regarding radar has aroused my interest. Very close to my home in Michigan, in Lyon
          Message 4 of 5 , Nov 1, 2005
            Hi All... I'm a lurker and very infrequent poster. All of the conversation regarding radar has aroused my interest. Very close to my home in Michigan, in Lyon Township, on 10 Mile Road there is a larger radar installation. It appears to be unmanned, but there is a condemned concrete building next to the tower which looks like it was manned at one point. There are no sings on the building or tower... I'm curious as which agency might this belong to. This radar has no radome, just a large dish spinning on a square lattice tower. I’m guessing it’s FAA. Also there is an abandoned radar site, tower with a smaller radome, not far away. Possibly in Superior Township.



            Is there anyone who can shed some light on these sites?



            ---------------------------------
            Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • hooligan@aol.com
            *IF* the first site you re mentioning is the one I m thinking about, it s a standard FAA (JSS) Cleveland ARTCC RADAR site. There is an ops building adjacent
            Message 5 of 5 , Nov 1, 2005
              *IF* the first site you're mentioning is the one I'm thinking about, it's a
              standard FAA (JSS) Cleveland ARTCC RADAR site. There is an ops building
              adjacent to it which should be staffed by at least one person routinely, though
              maybe not 24/7, and when I was last there, they had some sort of FAA/JSS sign
              up.

              There was a modern telco blockhouse just up the access road from it which
              used to have a microwave tower, but when I was last there about 5 years ago,
              the building was recently abandoned.

              The Superior Township site I'll bet you're thinking of is the old NORAD
              P-20B Gap Filler Annex off N Dixboro Rd just a little N of North Territorial
              Rd, in relatively intact condition. It was a RADAR annex of Selfridge Air
              Force Station & taken out of service by 1968.


              Tim



              In a message dated 11/1/2005 12:06:38 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
              rwalker653@... writes:


              Hi All... I'm a lurker and very infrequent poster. All of the conversation
              regarding radar has aroused my interest. Very close to my home in Michigan, in
              Lyon Township, on 10 Mile Road there is a larger radar installation. It
              appears to be unmanned, but there is a condemned concrete building next to the
              tower which looks like it was manned at one point. There are no sings on the
              building or tower... I'm curious as which agency might this belong to. This
              radar has no radome, just a large dish spinning on a square lattice tower. I’m
              guessing it’s FAA. Also there is an abandoned radar site, tower with a smaller
              radome, not far away. Possibly in Superior Township.





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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