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AT&T/American Tower sites

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  • Ken Hoehn
    Hi Albert! Being in the tower management business for 20 years now, I can say that it is doubtful American will enter into a program to go out and remove the
    Message 1 of 8 , Feb 3, 2000
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      Hi Albert!

      Being in the tower management business for 20 years now, I can say that
      it is doubtful American will enter into a program to go out and remove
      the AT&T m/w antennas unilaterally.

      American is involved in the most aggressive site-buying program the
      industry has ever seen....they now have over 7000 sites, and they are
      growing daily. Their goal is stated to be 20K towers.

      The money is, in all likelihood, going to go to buying more sites, not
      cleaning up.

      Typically, in our business, incumbent, retired in place antennas or
      equipment is removed at the time of installation of new facilities, at
      the expense of the new customer. Might not stand the test of reasonable
      reflection, but that's how it's done.

      I would 'turn up' your documentation slightly, but I would not worry
      about running out in haste.

      Scrap value, someone will say? KS horns have a lot of aluminum in them,
      but the scrap value, which varies, does not pay for the cost of
      mobilization of a crew, removal, cutting up, and transport. Not even
      close.

      Waveguide? The stuff used one these, and even the multi thousand dollar
      multifrequency launching networks at the bottom, are so specific to the
      intended operation that they are not of much value.

      Good luck!


      Ken Hoehn


      Albert LaFrance wrote:
      >
      >
      > You make a excellent point about the possibility that American Tower may
      > remove the microwave antennas at the AT&T towers they've bought. It might
      > be advisable for us to document the azimuths of those antennas, since the
      > data about many of the old links have been purged from the FCC database,
      > and the antennas provide the only clues as to where they went.
      >
    • Daryl Gibson
      Ken: My original point, and one that I think Albert was commenting on, was that some of the AT&T towers are in prime real estate areas -- for example, AT&T s
      Message 2 of 8 , Feb 3, 2000
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        Ken:

        My original point, and one that I think Albert was commenting on,
        was that some of the AT&T towers are in prime real estate areas -- for
        example, AT&T's Salt Lake City Junction tower, a beautiful piece of
        tower
        engineering, is in a prime spot looking over the valley -- and I would
        expect
        those towers to change soon after the cutover, since they would have
        more
        value. Some of the AT&T sites here in the West are along major roadways
        (relatively so) or within line-of-sight distance from those roadways...
        but others are out-of-the-way sites that you never see unless you're
        looking
        for them, and would only allow cell service to a few jackrabbits and a
        prairie dog
        town or two. So...I will try and document the sites that I believe are
        most
        commercially valuable first, and take a chance on getting to the others
        at a future date. Sooner or later, though, most of those microwave sites
        are
        going to change over, because the same piece of tower that now holds an
        old microwave horn is going to be a prime spot for a PCS antenna, and
        American Tower
        isn't going to let nostalgia stand in the way of profit.

        I note that American Tower took ownership of 800 of the AT&T towers just
        the other day...

        Now, this allows those of us who are tower junkies an interesting bit of
        information...
        American Tower's database at their web site lists the AT&T towers that
        they will
        be (or have been) purchasing...and they tend to trend towards the bottom
        of the
        list and be labelled as "self supporting." If you ever wanted to look up
        a tower
        location, between AT's database, and the FCC database, the time has
        never been better.

        Ken Hoehn wrote:
        >
        > From: Ken Hoehn <khoehn@...>
        >
        > Hi Albert!
        >
        > Being in the tower management business for 20 years now, I can say that
        > it is doubtful American will enter into a program to go out and remove
        > the AT&T m/w antennas unilaterally.
        >
        > American is involved in the most aggressive site-buying program the
        > industry has ever seen....they now have over 7000 sites, and they are
        > growing daily. Their goal is stated to be 20K towers.
        >
        > The money is, in all likelihood, going to go to buying more sites, not
        > cleaning up.
        >
        > Typically, in our business, incumbent, retired in place antennas or
        > equipment is removed at the time of installation of new facilities, at
        > the expense of the new customer. Might not stand the test of reasonable
        > reflection, but that's how it's done.
        >
        > I would 'turn up' your documentation slightly, but I would not worry
        > about running out in haste.
        >
        > Scrap value, someone will say? KS horns have a lot of aluminum in them,
        > but the scrap value, which varies, does not pay for the cost of
        > mobilization of a crew, removal, cutting up, and transport. Not even
        > close.
        >
        > Waveguide? The stuff used one these, and even the multi thousand dollar
        > multifrequency launching networks at the bottom, are so specific to the
        > intended operation that they are not of much value.
        >
        > Good luck!
        >
        > Ken Hoehn
        >
        > Albert LaFrance wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > > You make a excellent point about the possibility that American Tower may
        > > remove the microwave antennas at the AT&T towers they've bought. It might
        > > be advisable for us to document the azimuths of those antennas, since the
        > > data about many of the old links have been purged from the FCC database,
        > > and the antennas provide the only clues as to where they went.
        > >
        >
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      • Mike Jacobs
        I have been watching the American Tower site for some time, and I don t actually see a list of their sites. When I follow the SiteSearch link, it just tells
        Message 3 of 8 , Feb 3, 2000
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          I have been watching the American Tower site for some time, and I
          don't actually see a list of their sites. When I follow the
          "SiteSearch" link, it just tells me that I will be able to search their
          database of sites, without actually telling me how. Am I missing a
          link? Or is their site (website) on the fritz?


          Mike Jacobs, N3YAV
          Antenna and RF Engineering Laboratory
          Penn State University
          State College, PA
        • Daryl Gibson
          It took me a while to figure out that you need to access it using Internet Explorer....I haven t stopped to figure out why...I suspect they are using something
          Message 4 of 8 , Feb 3, 2000
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            It took me a while to figure out that you need to access it
            using Internet Explorer....I haven't stopped to figure out why...I
            suspect
            they are using something that uses a function particular to JScript.
            When
            I use Netscape, I can't get into the database, but with IE, there it
            is....

            Mike Jacobs wrote:
            >
            > From: "Mike Jacobs" <mwj116@...>
            >
            > I have been watching the American Tower site for some time, and I
            > don't actually see a list of their sites. When I follow the
            > "SiteSearch" link, it just tells me that I will be able to search their
            > database of sites, without actually telling me how. Am I missing a
            > link? Or is their site (website) on the fritz?
            >
            >
            > Mike Jacobs, N3YAV
            > Antenna and RF Engineering Laboratory
            > Penn State University
            > State College, PA
            >

            Mike Jacobs wrote:
            >
            > From: "Mike Jacobs" <mwj116@...>
            >
            > I have been watching the American Tower site for some time, and I
            > don't actually see a list of their sites. When I follow the
            > "SiteSearch" link, it just tells me that I will be able to search their
            > database of sites, without actually telling me how. Am I missing a
            > link? Or is their site (website) on the fritz?
            >
            >
            > Mike Jacobs, N3YAV
            > Antenna and RF Engineering Laboratory
            > Penn State University
            > State College, PA
            >
            > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
            > to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and
            > select the Member Center link from the menu bar on the left.
            >
            > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
          • Ken Hoehn
            Good points, Daryl, but again, from the point of view of the management business, the cost of removal of such an involved system such as a KS and it s
            Message 5 of 8 , Feb 4, 2000
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              Good points, Daryl, but again, from the point of view of the management
              business, the cost of removal of such an involved system such as a KS
              and it's waveguide is so substantial that it will not be done unless it
              needs to be done, or a buyer is available for the old stuff.

              If there is absolutely no other way to mount a new customer, you can bet
              those horns will go bye-bye. You can bet the farm on it. But faced
              with the cost of that, a side mount arrangement around them would be
              much more preferable to most users.

              In the several hundred sites we have, we have 3 old MCI self-supporting
              sites; there are cellular arrays on each. We've been lucky....have not
              had to remove the biggies yet. There is one array that is circled
              around the tower at the same level as two Andrew horns.....was no
              problem.

              But....get that documentation going! I'm just trying to say to not quit
              your day job! <g>


              KWH

              Daryl Gibson wrote:
              >
              > From: Daryl Gibson <drgibson@...>
              >
              > Ken:
              >
              > My original point, and one that I think Albert was commenting on,
              > was that some of the AT&T towers are in prime real estate areas -- for
              > example, AT&T's Salt Lake City Junction tower, a beautiful piece of
              > tower
              > engineering, is in a prime spot looking over the valley -- and I would
              > expect
              > those towers to change soon after the cutover, since they would have
              > more
              > value. Some of the AT&T sites here in the West are along major roadways
              > (relatively so) or within line-of-sight distance from those roadways...
              > but others are out-of-the-way sites that you never see unless you're
              > looking
              > for them, and would only allow cell service to a few jackrabbits and a
              > prairie dog
              > town or two. So...I will try and document the sites that I believe are
              > most
              > commercially valuable first, and take a chance on getting to the others
              > at a future date. Sooner or later, though, most of those microwave sites
              > are
              > going to change over, because the same piece of tower that now holds an
              > old microwave horn is going to be a prime spot for a PCS antenna, and
              > American Tower
              > isn't going to let nostalgia stand in the way of profit.
              >
            • Albert LaFrance
              Ken, Thanks for your insight into the tower business. I ve noticed how American is gobbling up sites here in the DC area. They own a big multi-tenant FM
              Message 6 of 8 , Feb 5, 2000
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                Ken,

                Thanks for your insight into the tower business. I've noticed how American
                is gobbling up sites here in the DC area. They own a big multi-tenant FM
                tower a few miles from my house, and they've got the old Western Union
                tower in NW DC, as well as a lot of the AT&T sites.

                I haven't seen any AT&T horns removed under American's ownership.
                Generally, the only horns taken down around here were those on the downtown
                COs, and that was done some time ago, apparently by Bell Atlantic. There
                is one AT&T site (Germantown, MD) where the microwave antennas were removed
                to make room for a large number of cellular arrays.

                It will be interesting to see what American does with the AT&T sites. Some
                of them were looking a little shabby. I can imagine that the scrap value
                of the horns wouldn't justify the cost of a rigger to remove them, and that
                the launching networks wouldn't be of much use today. BTW, those networks
                are interesting to see up close, especially the ones which have three
                rectangular waveguides of different sizes going into them from the radios,
                and a single circular guide going up to the the antenna. I'll bet most of
                the people who are installing cell sites at those towers don't have any
                idea what that stuff did.

                ...Albert
              • Albert LaFrance
                Also, it looks like the AT&T site names are in all upper-case letters on the database listing by state. ...Albert From: Daryl Gibson
                Message 7 of 8 , Feb 5, 2000
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                  Also, it looks like the AT&T site names are in all upper-case letters on
                  the database listing by state.

                  ...Albert

                  From: Daryl Gibson <drgibson@...>

                  >Now, this allows those of us who are tower junkies an interesting bit of
                  >information...
                  >American Tower's database at their web site lists the AT&T towers that
                  >they will
                  >be (or have been) purchasing...and they tend to trend towards the bottom
                  >of the
                  >list and be labelled as "self supporting." If you ever wanted to look up
                  >a tower
                  >location, between AT's database, and the FCC database, the time has
                  >never been better.
                • Albert LaFrance
                  Mike, The American Tower web site has had its share of operational anomalies, including a brief period when a search for towers in VA would bring up a list of
                  Message 8 of 8 , Feb 12, 2000
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                    Mike,

                    The American Tower web site has had its share of operational anomalies,
                    including a brief period when a search for towers in VA would bring up a
                    list of CA locations! It seems to be working OK at this moment - the
                    SiteSearch link should being up a list box where you can search by state,
                    and a set of boxes for a lat-lon-radius search.

                    There are some interesting former AT&T sites listed. I was surprised to
                    see Omps, WV (misfiled under VA) is an American Tower property, since it
                    is/was Mount Weather's AT&T microwave interface. At least, I'm pretty sure
                    it's the AT&T site; there's a 1-sec. difference in latitude and a 3-sec.
                    difference in longitude versus the March '98 FCC database, perhaps
                    attributable to the NAD27-83 conversion. The ground AMSL elevations are
                    identical.

                    Also, American Tower now owns the Kates (misspelled "Ketes") Mountain site
                    in WV - this was the AT&T link for the Greenbrier bunker, and one of a long
                    chain of stations. Again, a slight lat/lon difference vs. the old FCC
                    records.

                    ...Albert

                    From: "Mike Jacobs" <mwj116@...>
                    >
                    >I have been watching the American Tower site for some time, and I
                    >don't actually see a list of their sites. When I follow the
                    >"SiteSearch" link, it just tells me that I will be able to search their
                    >database of sites, without actually telling me how. Am I missing a
                    >link? Or is their site (website) on the fritz?
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