Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: AT&T Special Government Services, Colorado Springs area

Expand Messages
  • hooligan@aol.com
    In a message dated 5/29/2003 5:26:07 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ... Corrall Bluffs is definitely separate from Cedarwood (I ve seen both), and I can only assume
    Message 1 of 6 , May 29 9:32 PM
      In a message dated 5/29/2003 5:26:07 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
      mfoster@... writes:

      > At 10:16 PM 5/29/2003 +0000, you wrote:
      > >>I couldn't find Corral Bluffs, CO on my map (DeLorme Street Atlas
      > >5.0). Any
      > >>idea where it is?
      > >>
      > >
      > >I found this page describing Corral Bluffs as part of the "Colorado
      > >Springs Survivable Communications Network";nothing further found
      > >online yet;anyone know how far back this goes &any other
      > >details?...the USGS Quad map is
      > >GQ-783.
      > >
      > >www.fbodaily.com/archive/2002/04-April/03-Apr-2002/FBO-00051406.htm
      >
      > My guess is that it is either:
      >
      > Cedarwood CDWDC0Q0010 303-545-XXXX
      > or
      > Hugo HUGOCOQ0010 303-743-XXXX
      >
      > Both were mentioned in early Bell Systems documents as having "hardened"
      > microwave to CMC.


      Corrall Bluffs is definitely separate from Cedarwood (I've seen both), and
      I can only assume it's different than the Hugo site, due to the distance
      between Hugo & Corrall Bluffs (about 50 miles). I tried to find the Hugo site
      (rumor of an old NORAD CMC HF receive site there) when I passed thru the area 360
      days ago, but it was about 2AM, I'd been on the road for 15 hours, etc...

      Corrall Bluffs is depicted on my Delorme Street Atlas USA 9 software, but
      you have to zoom in on the right area to see it -- you won't get any hits if
      you do a location search.

      Anyway, from my notes written on-scene (albeit with a girlfriend in the
      car, so I didn't want to seem too geeky by writing copious notes about this &
      other old places in the middle of nowhere she accompanied me to):

      Stop: Corrall Bluffs AT&T
      Coords: 38-51.91N / 104-34.11W

      The AT&T Corrall Bluffs site was on high ground, up a dirt road (gate
      locked, & with American Tower sign on it) & within a small fenced compound atop
      the road. The compound was only viewed from about 1/3 mile away, but had a
      small concrete blockhouse building, and a new-looking heavy-duty tower approx.
      200' tall, with no antennas on it. No evidence of anything hardened, nor any
      microwave antennas ever having been atop the tower. I suspect the original AT&T
      microwave tower might have been removed. It is AT's "Colorado Springs" site,
      # CO-30300, FCC Reg 1056456.

      *******************

      My observations certainly seem to contradict the vision we imagine for the
      site based on the FBO web page listed above, and I have no explanation for
      that. The only other radio site in the area (besides the facility listed below)
      was a cellular/SMR type tower abour a mile away. The tower at the Corrall
      Springs site was way taller than necessary to see Cheyenne Mountain, Peterson
      AFB, & Schriever AFB, so if the tower dates back to the AT&T days, it probably
      linked to more distant sites.


      HOWEVER:

      Stop: Ellicott GWEN

      Close to the Corrall Springs AT&T site, this former GWEN site now seems
      to house the microwave relay site linking NORAD/SPACECOM CMC/Peterson
      AFB/Schriever AFB. GWEN tower removed but concrete foundation & fenced tower area
      intact. The GWEN generator & transmitter huts were intact, as was wood UHF inject
      antenna mast. There is an approx 80' tower adjacent to them, with three
      microwave antennas. The lowest points to Cheyenne Mountain, the others point to
      Peterson & Schriever. No signs up indicating anyone's ownership, no hardening.


      I've been to all the AT&T sites mentioned (minus Hugo, plus Westcreek),
      and didn't see any visible presence of hardening, so I don't know what the deal
      is...


      Tim


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • ozob99
      ... Atlas ... Colorado ... hardened ... both), and ... distance ... the Hugo site ... the area 360 ... etc... ... software, but ... hits if ... in the ...
      Message 2 of 6 , May 30 1:00 PM
        --- In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, hooligan@a... wrote:
        > In a message dated 5/29/2003 5:26:07 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
        > mfoster@c... writes:
        >
        > > At 10:16 PM 5/29/2003 +0000, you wrote:
        > > >>I couldn't find Corral Bluffs, CO on my map (DeLorme Street
        Atlas
        > > >5.0). Any
        > > >>idea where it is?
        > > >>
        > > >
        > > >I found this page describing Corral Bluffs as part of the
        "Colorado
        > > >Springs Survivable Communications Network";nothing further found
        > > >online yet;anyone know how far back this goes &any other
        > > >details?...the USGS Quad map is
        > > >GQ-783.
        > > >
        > >
        >www.fbodaily.com/archive/2002/04-April/03-Apr-2002/FBO-00051406.htm
        > >
        > > My guess is that it is either:
        > >
        > > Cedarwood CDWDC0Q0010 303-545-XXXX
        > > or
        > > Hugo HUGOCOQ0010 303-743-XXXX
        > >
        > > Both were mentioned in early Bell Systems documents as having
        "hardened"
        > > microwave to CMC.
        >
        >
        > Corrall Bluffs is definitely separate from Cedarwood (I've seen
        both), and
        > I can only assume it's different than the Hugo site, due to the
        distance
        > between Hugo & Corrall Bluffs (about 50 miles). I tried to find
        the Hugo site
        > (rumor of an old NORAD CMC HF receive site there) when I passed thru
        the area 360
        > days ago, but it was about 2AM, I'd been on the road for 15 hours,
        etc...
        >
        > Corrall Bluffs is depicted on my Delorme Street Atlas USA 9
        software, but
        > you have to zoom in on the right area to see it -- you won't get any
        hits if
        > you do a location search.
        >
        > Anyway, from my notes written on-scene (albeit with a girlfriend
        in the
        > car, so I didn't want to seem too geeky by writing copious notes
        about this &
        > other old places in the middle of nowhere she accompanied me to):
        >
        > Stop: Corrall Bluffs AT&T
        > Coords: 38-51.91N / 104-34.11W
        >
        > The AT&T Corrall Bluffs site was on high ground, up a dirt road
        (gate
        > locked, & with American Tower sign on it) & within a small fenced
        compound atop
        > the road. The compound was only viewed from about 1/3 mile away,
        but had a
        > small concrete blockhouse building, and a new-looking heavy-duty
        tower approx.
        > 200' tall, with no antennas on it. No evidence of anything
        hardened, nor any
        > microwave antennas ever having been atop the tower. I suspect the
        original AT&T
        > microwave tower might have been removed. It is AT's "Colorado
        Springs" site,
        > # CO-30300, FCC Reg 1056456.
        >
        > *******************
        >
        > My observations certainly seem to contradict the vision we imagine
        for the
        > site based on the FBO web page listed above, and I have no
        explanation for
        > that. The only other radio site in the area (besides the facility
        listed below)
        > was a cellular/SMR type tower abour a mile away. The tower at the
        Corrall
        > Springs site was way taller than necessary to see Cheyenne Mountain,
        Peterson
        > AFB, & Schriever AFB, so if the tower dates back to the AT&T days,
        it probably
        > linked to more distant sites.
        >
        >
        > HOWEVER:
        >
        > Stop: Ellicott GWEN
        >
        > Close to the Corrall Springs AT&T site, this former GWEN site
        now seems
        > to house the microwave relay site linking NORAD/SPACECOM
        CMC/Peterson
        > AFB/Schriever AFB. GWEN tower removed but concrete foundation &
        fenced tower area
        > intact. The GWEN generator & transmitter huts were intact, as was
        wood UHF inject
        > antenna mast. There is an approx 80' tower adjacent to them, with
        three
        > microwave antennas. The lowest points to Cheyenne Mountain, the
        others point to
        > Peterson & Schriever. No signs up indicating anyone's ownership, no
        hardening.
        >
        >
        > I've been to all the AT&T sites mentioned (minus Hugo, plus
        Westcreek),
        > and didn't see any visible presence of hardening, so I don't know
        what the deal
        > is...
        >
        >
        > Tim

        Interesting that AT owns the site,if thats it;the gov't paid AT&T
        $819,402 special construction for the Corral Bluffs station in 1994, &
        it seems unusual a sensitive special construction station thats up for
        rebidding(with AT&T's foot in the door with all the specs,etc.)would
        be sold to AT,even with a lease back.

        Maybe a tower would'nt even be required at the site if the terrain
        permitted a hardened dish in a hillside,thus explaining the lack of
        dishs on the tower you saw.
      • Kevin Hritz
        The mention of the GWEN site in the previous submittal prompted me to bring up a few questions and observations on the GWEN system. 1.) I don t see very many
        Message 3 of 6 , Jun 1, 2003
          The mention of the GWEN site in the previous submittal prompted me to bring up a few questions and observations on the GWEN system.

          1.) I don't see very many GWEN references on coldwarcomms group. Is GWEN considered a viable topic for this group?

          2.) I have visited four (4) GWEN sites in my local area since 1988; Harborcreek(near Erie, PA), Hawk Run )near Phillipsburg, PA, Gettysburg(right on US 30 East of Gettysburg) and Pine Valley (near Elmira, NY). All these sites had the telephone pole-mounted UHF antenna denoting an injection node. The Gettysburg site has a log periodic beam mounted on a tower facing Site R, which must be the Big Kahuna of injection points for the nationwide system, when it was in use.

          3.) I have never seen anything in open literature on the types of equipment onboard the B52s, KC-135s, B-1Bs, and command and control aircraft that were used to access the GWEN system from the air on the UHF frequencies. Can anyone help in this area? Also, were there any provisions for ground-based forces to access the network?

          4.) Just by chance, back in 1991, on one of my trips to University Park, PA (State College) I just happened to be driving by the Hawk Run GWEN site (just south of Phillipsburg on US 322) one Saturday when I spotted a service truck at the site. I drove up the access road, and struck up a conversation with the tech, who was amazed by my knowledge of the system. His van had CONTEL logo on the side. I asked him if I could have a look inside the equipment shelters, and was told NO. He was very tight lipped about everything I asked him. Typical.

          Any additional info the group may have on GWEN and its connectivity to the NCA would be welcome.

          Thanks:

          Kevin Hritz, W3QD


          ORIGINAL MESSAGE (TRUNCATED):



          HOWEVER:

          Stop: Ellicott GWEN

          Close to the Corrall Springs AT&T site, this former GWEN site now seems
          to house the microwave relay site linking NORAD/SPACECOM CMC/Peterson
          AFB/Schriever AFB. GWEN tower removed but concrete foundation & fenced tower area
          intact. The GWEN generator & transmitter huts were intact, as was wood UHF inject
          antenna mast. There is an approx 80' tower adjacent to them, with three
          microwave antennas. The lowest points to Cheyenne Mountain, the others point to
          Peterson & Schriever. No signs up indicating anyone's ownership, no hardening.


          I've been to all the AT&T sites mentioned (minus Hugo, plus Westcreek),
          and didn't see any visible presence of hardening, so I don't know what the deal
          is...


          Tim



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Scott
          Kevin, There are a few of us on the list who enjoy studying the GWEN. My own research is from the real property perspective; others are into the technical
          Message 4 of 6 , Jun 1, 2003
            Kevin,

            There are a few of us on the list who enjoy studying the GWEN. My own
            research is from the real property perspective; others are into the
            technical workings of the system.

            Just tonight I added a GWEN relay-node site listing to my web page:

            http://www.airforcebase.net/usaf/GWEN_list.html

            I've visited 14 of the sites (so far), and photos are available in my
            trip reports. Search for GWEN in my Trip Reports Alpha List:

            http://www.airforcebase.net/trips/alpha.html

            Cheers,
            Scott Murdock
            www.airforcebase.net
          • Albert LaFrance
            ... From: Kevin Hritz To: Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2003 10:19 PM Subject: Re: [coldwarcomms] Re: AT&T
            Message 5 of 6 , Jun 5, 2003
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Kevin Hritz" <hritz@...>
              To: <coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2003 10:19 PM
              Subject: Re: [coldwarcomms] Re: AT&T Special Government Services, Colorado
              Springs area


              > The mention of the GWEN site in the previous submittal prompted me to
              bring up a few questions and observations on the >GWEN system.
              >
              > 1.) I don't see very many GWEN references on coldwarcomms group. Is GWEN
              considered a viable topic for this group?

              Yes, definitely (IMO). In fact it's something I'd like to learn more about.
              GWEN was a very interesting concept, a signifcant departure from earlier
              nuclear command-and-control networks.

              > 2.) I have visited four (4) GWEN sites in my local area since 1988;
              Harborcreek(near Erie, PA), Hawk Run )near >Phillipsburg, PA,
              Gettysburg(right on US 30 East of Gettysburg) and Pine Valley (near Elmira,
              NY). All these sites had the >telephone pole-mounted UHF antenna denoting an
              injection node. The Gettysburg site has a log periodic beam mounted on >a
              tower facing Site R, which must be the Big Kahuna of injection points for
              the nationwide system, when it was in use.

              Do you have any photos that you could post?

              > 3.) I have never seen anything in open literature on the types of
              equipment onboard the B52s, KC-135s, B-1Bs, and >command and control
              aircraft that were used to access the GWEN system from the air on the UHF
              frequencies. Can >anyone help in this area? Also, were there any provisions
              for ground-based forces to access the network?

              It's my understanding that the system was intended to communicate with both
              airborne and ground forces. The only info I can cite is the following from
              p. 225 of Daniel Ford's 1985 book "The Button" (which I highly recommend to
              anyone interested in Cold War strategic comms): "Dozens of GWEN
              installations will have to be built for a minimal system to connect the
              Pentagon and SAC Headquarters with the various missile and bomber bases."

              On p. 226, Ford states that the ten-node trial network was completed at the
              end of 1983.

              He lists the following stations:
              Puebla and Aurora, CO,
              Omaha and Ainsworth, NE,
              Manhattan and Colby, KS,
              Fayetteville, AR,
              Canton, OK,
              Clark, SD,
              plus three commercial radio stations whose locations he doesn't mention,
              used in the testing program.

              > 4.) Just by chance, back in 1991, on one of my trips to University Park,
              PA (State College) I just happened to be driving >by the Hawk Run GWEN site
              (just south of Phillipsburg on US 322) one Saturday when I spotted a service
              truck at the site. >I drove up the access road, and struck up a conversation
              with the tech, who was amazed by my knowledge of the system. >His van had
              CONTEL logo on the side. I asked him if I could have a look inside the
              equipment shelters, and was told NO. >He was very tight lipped about
              everything I asked him. Typical.

              Interesting. I'd guess the Contel tech was with Contel Federal Systems,
              which I think had a contract to build and/or maintain the stations.

              Albert
            • Rick C.
              ... I recall at least on occasion olive drab/camo colored military multipurpose engineering type trucks at the gate to the Beantown site, so I assume at least
              Message 6 of 6 , Jun 6, 2003
                >Interesting. I'd guess the Contel tech was with Contel Federal Systems,
                >which I think had a contract to build and/or maintain the stations.
                >
                >Albert

                I recall at least on occasion olive drab/camo colored military multipurpose
                engineering type trucks at the gate to the Beantown site, so I assume at
                least some maintenance was done by military. What unit would have been
                responsible for this?

                _________________________________________________________________
                The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
                http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.