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Re: Old AT&T relay site on Ebay

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  • dsss_communications <dsss_communications
    If you originally purchased this site from American Tower, how did you get by the requirement to use the site only for communications purposes? An associate of
    Message 1 of 9 , Dec 14, 2002
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      If you originally purchased this site from American Tower, how did
      you get by the requirement to use the site only for communications
      purposes?

      An associate of mine purchased several sites up here for a rediculous
      sum and each sales contract specifically stated that each site was to
      be used for the original intended purpose. Was the land under it
      available for purchase or is it leased?

      Greg




      --- In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, "truenorthservices"
      <truenorthservices@y...> wrote:
      > Here's something the boys at AT&T never imagined --
      > I just put up an old relay station up for auction on Ebay:
      >
      >
      > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1792674840
      >
      > I pictured myself getting up there for the occasional relaxing week
      > off: reality has set in. It's too far, and we've got two small
      kids,
      > it takes an act of Congress for me to go to the store, much less
      > Montana.
      >
      > :^)
      > Tony
    • truenorthservices <truenorthservices@yah
      Different sites came with different contractual requirements. We avoided many sites for exactly that reason -- when AT&T negotiated with the Parks Service, a
      Message 2 of 9 , Dec 15, 2002
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        Different sites came with different contractual requirements. We
        avoided many sites for exactly that reason -- when AT&T negotiated
        with the Parks Service, a lumber company, or other large organization
        that had a legal staff, they usually ended up with a site that had
        certain caveats attached to them ie: your example. The sites I
        purchased were typically straight purchases of the land and an
        easement, with no strings attached. Typically, a farmer or rancher
        sold AT&T an acre or three, threw in the easement, and took a check
        from AT&T. The only thing the farmer/rancher was usually savvy enough
        to exclude were mineral rights under the towers, and of course, AT&T
        didn't care about that. Sounds like your friend did well for himself
        in any case, did he buy Enumclaw?
        Tony
        --- In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, "dsss_communications
        <dsss_communications@y...>" <dsss_communications@y...> wrote:
        > If you originally purchased this site from American Tower, how did
        > you get by the requirement to use the site only for communications
        > purposes?
        >
        > An associate of mine purchased several sites up here for a
        rediculous
        > sum and each sales contract specifically stated that each site was
        to
        > be used for the original intended purpose. Was the land under it
        > available for purchase or is it leased?
        >
        > Greg
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, "truenorthservices"
        > <truenorthservices@y...> wrote:
        > > Here's something the boys at AT&T never imagined --
        > > I just put up an old relay station up for auction on Ebay:
        > >
        > >
        > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1792674840
        > >
        > > I pictured myself getting up there for the occasional relaxing
        week
        > > off: reality has set in. It's too far, and we've got two small
        > kids,
        > > it takes an act of Congress for me to go to the store, much less
        > > Montana.
        > >
        > > :^)
        > > Tony
      • David Lesher
        ... ATT laid fiber along rail lines in Indiana/Illinois. Problem was, it was not RR land; they had use of it under covenant. For RR use only. Then railroad
        Message 3 of 9 , Dec 15, 2002
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          Unnamed Administration sources reported that etaoin_shrdlu_00 <davidyahoo@...> said:
          >
          > I'm the one who bought Enumclaw, but I agree with the other
          > points mentioned in this thread. I have looked at about a dozen
          > sites in the ATC selloff, and almost every one them has unique
          > language. You really need to study the fine print, and go through
          > the county records all the way back to the original deeds to see
          > what you can and can't do. It's also prudent to see whether the
          > people granting AT&T the deed had the rights to do so in the first
          > place. In some cases, there is even a clause in the deed that
          > causes the site to revert to its original owner if it's not used as a
          > radio relay site. You had better hope that AT&T let some friendly
          > hams in there after they turned their microwave off!

          ATT laid fiber along rail lines in Indiana/Illinois. Problem
          was, it was not RR land; they had use of it under covenant.
          For RR use only.

          Then railroad went under. ATT discovered that had to pay
          ?$45K per mile or such to get out of that mess.



          --
          A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@...
          & no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
          Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
          is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
        • etaoin_shrdlu_00 <davidyahoo@josephson.c
          I m the one who bought Enumclaw, but I agree with the other points mentioned in this thread. I have looked at about a dozen sites in the ATC selloff, and
          Message 4 of 9 , Dec 15, 2002
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            I'm the one who bought Enumclaw, but I agree with the other
            points mentioned in this thread. I have looked at about a dozen
            sites in the ATC selloff, and almost every one them has unique
            language. You really need to study the fine print, and go through
            the county records all the way back to the original deeds to see
            what you can and can't do. It's also prudent to see whether the
            people granting AT&T the deed had the rights to do so in the first
            place. In some cases, there is even a clause in the deed that
            causes the site to revert to its original owner if it's not used as a
            radio relay site. You had better hope that AT&T let some friendly
            hams in there after they turned their microwave off!

            Pictures of Enumclaw, by the way, are at
            http://www.altaphon.com/Enumclaw (and also a funny site at
            http://sheba.hell.org/~spam/fodder/rambles/ )

            The Montana site looks interesting but is more than double the
            price of most of the recent ATC prices have been.

            --David

            <truenorthservices@y...> wrote:
            > Different sites came with different contractual requirements.
            We
            > avoided many sites for exactly that reason -- when AT&T
            negotiated
            > with the Parks Service, a lumber company, or other large
            organization
            > that had a legal staff, they usually ended up with a site that had
            > certain caveats attached to them ie: your example. The sites I
            > purchased were typically straight purchases of the land and an
            > easement, with no strings attached. Typically, a farmer or
            rancher
            > sold AT&T an acre or three, threw in the easement, and took a
            check
            > from AT&T. The only thing the farmer/rancher was usually savvy
            enough
            > to exclude were mineral rights under the towers, and of course,
            AT&T
            > didn't care about that. Sounds like your friend did well for
            himself
            > in any case, did he buy Enumclaw?
            > Tony
            > --- In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com,
            "dsss_communications
            > <dsss_communications@y...>" <dsss_communications@y...>
            wrote:
            > > If you originally purchased this site from American Tower,
            how did
            > > you get by the requirement to use the site only for
            communications
            > > purposes?
            > >
            > > An associate of mine purchased several sites up here for a
            > rediculous
            > > sum and each sales contract specifically stated that each
            site was
            > to
            > > be used for the original intended purpose. Was the land
            under it
            > > available for purchase or is it leased?
            > >
            > > Greg
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > --- In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, "truenorthservices"
            > > <truenorthservices@y...> wrote:
            > > > Here's something the boys at AT&T never imagined --
            > > > I just put up an old relay station up for auction on Ebay:
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=17926748
            40
            > > >
            > > > I pictured myself getting up there for the occasional relaxing
            > week
            > > > off: reality has set in. It's too far, and we've got two small
            > > kids,
            > > > it takes an act of Congress for me to go to the store, much
            less
            > > > Montana.
            > > >
            > > > :^)
            > > > Tony
          • Charles McCullough
            We have purchased over 40 of these old sites from ATC, and only one had a revert clause that says it reverts to the original landowner if it ceases to be a
            Message 5 of 9 , Dec 15, 2002
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              We have purchased over 40 of these old sites from ATC, and only one had a
              revert clause that says it reverts to the original landowner if it ceases to
              be a communications site. Our position is that as long as there's a tower
              there, and it obviously isn't selling hamburgers or doing anything else,
              it's still a communications site--even if the horns aren't actually beaming
              out any microwaves at the moment.
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: <dsss_communications@...>
              To: <coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2002 12:14 AM
              Subject: [coldwarcomms] Re: Old AT&T relay site on Ebay


              > If you originally purchased this site from American Tower, how did
              > you get by the requirement to use the site only for communications
              > purposes?
              >
              > An associate of mine purchased several sites up here for a rediculous
              > sum and each sales contract specifically stated that each site was to
              > be used for the original intended purpose. Was the land under it
              > available for purchase or is it leased?
              >
              > Greg
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, "truenorthservices"
              > <truenorthservices@y...> wrote:
              > > Here's something the boys at AT&T never imagined --
              > > I just put up an old relay station up for auction on Ebay:
              > >
              > >
              > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1792674840
              > >
              > > I pictured myself getting up there for the occasional relaxing week
              > > off: reality has set in. It's too far, and we've got two small
              > kids,
              > > it takes an act of Congress for me to go to the store, much less
              > > Montana.
              > >
              > > :^)
              > > Tony
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >
              >
            • ed@the7thbeer.com
              I would be interesting to see how the grant in question is specifically written. It sounds like ATT was granted a fee simple, either defeasible or on
              Message 6 of 9 , Dec 15, 2002
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                I would be interesting to see how the grant in question is specifically
                written. It sounds like ATT was granted a fee simple, either defeasible
                or on condition subsequent. Things like "What exactly does "used as a
                comms site" mean" are interesting questions courts have to take up all the
                time. Do you have access to the actual wording of that one site? It
                would be an interesting read (at least for a law nerd like me). ;)


                > We have purchased over 40 of these old sites from ATC, and only one had a
                > revert clause that says it reverts to the original landowner if it ceases to
                > be a communications site. Our position is that as long as there's a tower
                > there, and it obviously isn't selling hamburgers or doing anything else,
                > it's still a communications site--even if the horns aren't actually beaming
                > out any microwaves at the moment.
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: <dsss_communications@...>
                > To: <coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com>
                > Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2002 12:14 AM
                > Subject: [coldwarcomms] Re: Old AT&T relay site on Ebay
                >
                >
                > > If you originally purchased this site from American Tower, how did
                > > you get by the requirement to use the site only for communications
                > > purposes?
                > >
                > > An associate of mine purchased several sites up here for a rediculous
                > > sum and each sales contract specifically stated that each site was to
                > > be used for the original intended purpose. Was the land under it
                > > available for purchase or is it leased?
                > >
                > > Greg
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > --- In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, "truenorthservices"
                > > <truenorthservices@y...> wrote:
                > > > Here's something the boys at AT&T never imagined --
                > > > I just put up an old relay station up for auction on Ebay:
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1792674840
                > > >
                > > > I pictured myself getting up there for the occasional relaxing week
                > > > off: reality has set in. It's too far, and we've got two small
                > > kids,
                > > > it takes an act of Congress for me to go to the store, much less
                > > > Montana.
                > > >
                > > > :^)
                > > > Tony
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >
                >
              • dsss_communications <dsss_communications
                Fortunately the sites my associates purchased are all being used again either for point-to-point microwave relay and/or land mobile communications
                Message 7 of 9 , Dec 15, 2002
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                  Fortunately the sites my associates purchased are all being used
                  again either for point-to-point microwave relay and/or land mobile
                  communications applications.

                  Nearly all of the sites are now sold off up here. In the heat of the
                  American Tower debt debacle, I watched several (6), rather choice
                  sites sell in the $1500 to $3000 price range over this last summer
                  (no, there wasn't a slip of the decimal point!). Each site still had
                  all of the horns, waveguide, original Bell System 20 kW generators,
                  several thousand gallon diesel tanks (still with fuel) and - of
                  course - outhouses. Just by scrapping the circular waveguide running
                  to the horns (brass) the owners were able to recoup their monetary
                  investment. We dropped several of the horns which brought nearly
                  nothing in scrap value.

                  On the other hand, I recently noticed another site up north sell for
                  >$30k. It was one of the gateway sites into Canada and is a very
                  prime location for communications. It already contained a cellular
                  operation when it sold (read: steady $$$$$ income for the owner).

                  Greg


                  --- In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, <ed@t...> wrote:
                  > I would be interesting to see how the grant in question is
                  specifically
                  > written. It sounds like ATT was granted a fee simple, either
                  defeasible
                  > or on condition subsequent. Things like "What exactly does "used
                  as a
                  > comms site" mean" are interesting questions courts have to take up
                  all the
                  > time. Do you have access to the actual wording of that one site?
                  It
                  > would be an interesting read (at least for a law nerd like me). ;)
                  >
                  >
                  > > We have purchased over 40 of these old sites from ATC, and only
                  one had a
                  > > revert clause that says it reverts to the original landowner if
                  it ceases to
                  > > be a communications site. Our position is that as long as there's
                  a tower
                  > > there, and it obviously isn't selling hamburgers or doing
                  anything else,
                  > > it's still a communications site--even if the horns aren't
                  actually beaming
                  > > out any microwaves at the moment.
                  > > ----- Original Message -----
                  > > From: <dsss_communications@y...>
                  > > To: <coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com>
                  > > Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2002 12:14 AM
                  > > Subject: [coldwarcomms] Re: Old AT&T relay site on Ebay
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > > If you originally purchased this site from American Tower, how
                  did
                  > > > you get by the requirement to use the site only for
                  communications
                  > > > purposes?
                  > > >
                  > > > An associate of mine purchased several sites up here for a
                  rediculous
                  > > > sum and each sales contract specifically stated that each site
                  was to
                  > > > be used for the original intended purpose. Was the land under
                  it
                  > > > available for purchase or is it leased?
                  > > >
                  > > > Greg
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, "truenorthservices"
                  > > > <truenorthservices@y...> wrote:
                  > > > > Here's something the boys at AT&T never imagined --
                  > > > > I just put up an old relay station up for auction on Ebay:
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1792674840
                  > > > >
                  > > > > I pictured myself getting up there for the occasional
                  relaxing week
                  > > > > off: reality has set in. It's too far, and we've got two small
                  > > > kids,
                  > > > > it takes an act of Congress for me to go to the store, much
                  less
                  > > > > Montana.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > :^)
                  > > > > Tony
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                  http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                  http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  > >
                  > >
                • dsss_communications <dsss_communications
                  Fortunately the sites my associates purchased are all being used again either for point-to-point microwave relay and/or land mobile communications
                  Message 8 of 9 , Dec 15, 2002
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                    Fortunately the sites my associates purchased are all being used
                    again either for point-to-point microwave relay and/or land mobile
                    communications applications.

                    Nearly all of the sites are now sold off up here. In the heat of the
                    American Tower debt debacle, I watched several (6), rather choice
                    sites sell in the $1500 to $3000 price range over this last summer
                    (no, there wasn't a slip of the decimal point!). Each site still had
                    all of the horns, waveguide, original Bell System 20 kW generators,
                    several thousand gallon diesel tanks (still with fuel) and - of
                    course - outhouses. Just by scrapping the circular waveguide running
                    to the horns (brass) the owners were able to recoup their monetary
                    investment. We dropped several of the horns which brought nearly
                    nothing in scrap value.

                    On the other hand, I recently noticed another site up north sell for
                    >$30k. It was one of the gateway sites into Canada and is a very
                    prime location for communications. It already contained a cellular
                    operation when it sold (read: steady $$$$$ income for the owner).

                    Greg


                    --- In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, <ed@t...> wrote:
                    > I would be interesting to see how the grant in question is
                    specifically
                    > written. It sounds like ATT was granted a fee simple, either
                    defeasible
                    > or on condition subsequent. Things like "What exactly does "used
                    as a
                    > comms site" mean" are interesting questions courts have to take up
                    all the
                    > time. Do you have access to the actual wording of that one site?
                    It
                    > would be an interesting read (at least for a law nerd like me). ;)
                    >
                    >
                    > > We have purchased over 40 of these old sites from ATC, and only
                    one had a
                    > > revert clause that says it reverts to the original landowner if
                    it ceases to
                    > > be a communications site. Our position is that as long as there's
                    a tower
                    > > there, and it obviously isn't selling hamburgers or doing
                    anything else,
                    > > it's still a communications site--even if the horns aren't
                    actually beaming
                    > > out any microwaves at the moment.
                    > > ----- Original Message -----
                    > > From: <dsss_communications@y...>
                    > > To: <coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com>
                    > > Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2002 12:14 AM
                    > > Subject: [coldwarcomms] Re: Old AT&T relay site on Ebay
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > > If you originally purchased this site from American Tower, how
                    did
                    > > > you get by the requirement to use the site only for
                    communications
                    > > > purposes?
                    > > >
                    > > > An associate of mine purchased several sites up here for a
                    rediculous
                    > > > sum and each sales contract specifically stated that each site
                    was to
                    > > > be used for the original intended purpose. Was the land under
                    it
                    > > > available for purchase or is it leased?
                    > > >
                    > > > Greg
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > --- In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, "truenorthservices"
                    > > > <truenorthservices@y...> wrote:
                    > > > > Here's something the boys at AT&T never imagined --
                    > > > > I just put up an old relay station up for auction on Ebay:
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1792674840
                    > > > >
                    > > > > I pictured myself getting up there for the occasional
                    relaxing week
                    > > > > off: reality has set in. It's too far, and we've got two small
                    > > > kids,
                    > > > > it takes an act of Congress for me to go to the store, much
                    less
                    > > > > Montana.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > :^)
                    > > > > Tony
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    > >
                    > >
                  • Charles McCullough
                    Yes, I ll dig it out and post the relevent language sometime today. ... From: To: Sent: Sunday, December 15,
                    Message 9 of 9 , Dec 16, 2002
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                      Yes, I'll dig it out and post the relevent language sometime today.
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: <ed@...>
                      To: <coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2002 4:20 PM
                      Subject: Re: [coldwarcomms] Re: Old AT&T relay site on Ebay


                      > I would be interesting to see how the grant in question is specifically
                      > written. It sounds like ATT was granted a fee simple, either defeasible
                      > or on condition subsequent. Things like "What exactly does "used as a
                      > comms site" mean" are interesting questions courts have to take up all the
                      > time. Do you have access to the actual wording of that one site? It
                      > would be an interesting read (at least for a law nerd like me). ;)
                      >
                      >
                      > > We have purchased over 40 of these old sites from ATC, and only one had
                      a
                      > > revert clause that says it reverts to the original landowner if it
                      ceases to
                      > > be a communications site. Our position is that as long as there's a
                      tower
                      > > there, and it obviously isn't selling hamburgers or doing anything else,
                      > > it's still a communications site--even if the horns aren't actually
                      beaming
                      > > out any microwaves at the moment.
                      > > ----- Original Message -----
                      > > From: <dsss_communications@...>
                      > > To: <coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com>
                      > > Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2002 12:14 AM
                      > > Subject: [coldwarcomms] Re: Old AT&T relay site on Ebay
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > > If you originally purchased this site from American Tower, how did
                      > > > you get by the requirement to use the site only for communications
                      > > > purposes?
                      > > >
                      > > > An associate of mine purchased several sites up here for a rediculous
                      > > > sum and each sales contract specifically stated that each site was to
                      > > > be used for the original intended purpose. Was the land under it
                      > > > available for purchase or is it leased?
                      > > >
                      > > > Greg
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > --- In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, "truenorthservices"
                      > > > <truenorthservices@y...> wrote:
                      > > > > Here's something the boys at AT&T never imagined --
                      > > > > I just put up an old relay station up for auction on Ebay:
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1792674840
                      > > > >
                      > > > > I pictured myself getting up there for the occasional relaxing week
                      > > > > off: reality has set in. It's too far, and we've got two small
                      > > > kids,
                      > > > > it takes an act of Congress for me to go to the store, much less
                      > > > > Montana.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > :^)
                      > > > > Tony
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                      http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                      http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      >
                      >
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