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Re: [coldwarcomms] Greenbrier Visit and Photos

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  • Albert LaFrance
    ... From: To: Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 11:55 PM Subject: [coldwarcomms] Greenbrier Visit and Photos
    Message 1 of 13 , Oct 4, 2002
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      ----- Original Message -----
      From: <mwj116@...>
      To: <coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 11:55 PM
      Subject: [coldwarcomms] Greenbrier Visit and Photos

      Nice work, and great photos! I've added a link to your Greenbrier page from
      mine
      (http://coldwardc.homestead.com/files/Greenbrier/index.html).

      <SNIP>

      > 1. The bunker was fed by L-3 coax from the Kate's Mountain site.
      > Photo DSC02400.jpg, on the 5th page shows a lead cable tag on
      > the cable where it enters the AT&T room. Photo DSC02397.jpg on
      > page 4 shows the label on the LMX-3 mux bay. I also traced the
      > cable markers up the mountain to the Kate's Mountain site.

      Does the cable path go more or less straight up the mountain? Along the
      road, I only saw markers when I got close to the station, so I assumed the
      cable came by another route. Did the markers have a Dranesville phone
      number like the ones near the station?

      > 2. Photos DSC02392, 2393, 2394 show some of the circuit labels
      > on the test board. In 2394, there are plugs for orderwire circuits to
      > both the Hagerstown and Chatham hardened Autovon sites. 2393
      > shows circuits to Washington 4 (which I recall is Mount Weather).
      > There are also FX listings there...and some other circuit ID's.

      Some interesting stuff there. You're correct about Wash 4 - it's an AT&T
      name for Mt. Weather; still in use.

      On 2393, I wonder what SNOW 33 is. I think I've seen identifiers like that
      used elsewhere in telco practice - maybe for trunks or trunk groups? Or
      maybe the "OW" part stands for Order Wire.

      I believe the GP and GT designations are for certain classes of government
      circuits. The 1965 AUTOVON subscriber list has a lot of GP numbers. I
      assume the FX is Foreign Exchange; maybe the EM refers to the E&M trunk
      signaling interface?

      <SNIP>

      > 4. The racks shown in 2391, 2398 and 2399 indicate the presence
      > of early DDM-1000 fiber mux gear. We tried to open the racks, but
      > the fellow giving me the personal tour didn't have the key.

      Those racks definitely got my attention what I was there - they really stand
      out against the older equipment.

      <SNIP>

      > The day that I was there, Forbes Magazine was shooting photos
      > and we had hoped they would pop up one of the HF antennas, but it
      > didn't happen. The ham I talked with there mentioned that when
      > they reopened the bunker for tours, they had a special event station
      > which transmitted using the pop-up antenna.

      A rather poor documentary on one of the cable channels a few years ago
      showed the antenna being deployed. As I recall, it appeared to be
      motor-driven because it went up slowly, like a retractible car-radio
      antenna, rather than being spring-loaded.

      Also, I seem to recall a switch in the AT&T room labeled with something
      about the pop-up antenna.

      > The bunker is a neat place, but doesn't strike me as substantially
      > harder than the AT&T main stations. Given the topography of the
      > mountains that completely surround the hotel and town, I can't
      > believe that the hardening would have done any good. If a
      > warhead landed anywhere in that valley, the overpressure would
      > have been confined by the geography and would have done a lot of
      > damage to the facility. Conversely, if it hit outside the area, the
      > mountains would have provided a lot of blast protection. I suspect
      > the hardening may have had a better chance of keeping out the
      > local population than anything else.

      Yes, I agree that the hardening measures appear comparable to the AT&T
      sites, both in type of measures provided (blast doors, air filters, etc.)
      and their strength.

      And not only would the local population have to be kept out, but also the
      hotel guests, who I understand would be evicted when the facility was
      activated! Maybe they'd be offered a free train ride back to DC...

      > Note on the button-up system. There were remote radiation and
      > blast sensors on both Kate's Mountain and the Greenbrier's CATV
      > tower atop Greenbrier Mountain which signalled the buttonup
      > system in the bunker. 2345-2347 show an early version of the
      > hardware used for this. The last version was removed by the
      > government when it abandoned the site. 2348-2351 show the
      > security control room at the facility.

      That might explain the mysterious outbuilding on the Kates Mountain site.
      Although adjacent to the AT&T building, it has its own fenced enclosure with
      a separate locked gate and what appears to be a burglar-alarm box. It also
      has a small whip antenna, and a conduit with one or two cables going to the
      AT&T tower.

      See photos at http://longlines.addr.com/places-routes/Kates_Mtn/index.html .

      >By the way, I throughly loved the Greenbrier, its a great place to
      >spend a vacation if you can afford it! If I have the opportunity to
      >visit again, I will do so and will attempt to contact Dr. Conti, the
      >Greenbrier Historian to discuss the bunker.

      I've heard the food alone makes it worth a visit! Of course, I assume
      there's a special discount for Cold War Comms list members...

      Albert
    • ozob99
      ... government ... numbers. I ... trunk ... Most circuit ID s had just 2 characters out of the 4 alloted, the 3rd & 4th were for specific functions; i cant
      Message 2 of 13 , Oct 5, 2002
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        > I believe the GP and GT designations are for certain classes of
        government
        > circuits. The 1965 AUTOVON subscriber list has a lot of GP
        numbers. I
        > assume the FX is Foreign Exchange; maybe the EM refers to the E&M
        trunk
        > signaling interface?

        Most circuit ID's had just 2 characters out of the 4 alloted, the 3rd
        & 4th were for specific functions; i cant recall the "EM" function
        but i'll follow up on it.

        GP is Government(federal or state[which have numerical prefixes])
        telephone grade service{FP is the commercial designator}

        GT is gov't telegraph grade service {TT is the commercial
        designator}

        There is a list of circuit identifiers in a BSP(which i dont
        have)..i'll post a synopsis as best i can remember later if the
        official list cant be found.

        The FX(foreign Exchange) [see post #2724] designations shown in the
        pics are interesting because a gov't FX would be designated GX; so to
        maintain the cover, the "customer" was probably shown as Forsythe
        Assc or Greenbriar because a "govt" circuit going to the Greenbriar
        might arouse suspicions at the local exchange end of the FX(probably
        a Washington tel #).I suspect the service was ordered by & bill was
        paid by Forsythe or another mundane entity.

        The other GP/GT,etc circuit ID's were terminated in offices that had
        a need to know so the "gov't" ID's were ok.
      • Albert LaFrance
        ... From: ozob99 To: Sent: Saturday, October 05, 2002 2:34 PM Subject: [coldwarcomms] Re: Greenbrier Visit
        Message 3 of 13 , Oct 5, 2002
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          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "ozob99" <ozob99@...>
          To: <coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Saturday, October 05, 2002 2:34 PM
          Subject: [coldwarcomms] Re: Greenbrier Visit and Photos


          <SNIP>
          > GP is Government(federal or state[which have numerical prefixes])
          > telephone grade service{FP is the commercial designator}
          >
          > GT is gov't telegraph grade service {TT is the commercial
          > designator}
          >
          > There is a list of circuit identifiers in a BSP(which i dont
          > have)..i'll post a synopsis as best i can remember later if the
          > official list cant be found.
          <SNIP>

          I think I have that BSP on microfiche; I'll start looking for it.

          Albert
        • ozob99
          ... L3..it ... it ... A retired cable supervisor told me recently that he oversaw the Kates Mt coax intallation.Men in Black met with him others involved at
          Message 4 of 13 , Mar 19, 2003
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            --- In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, "ozob99" <ozob99@y...> wrote:
            > I believe the facility from Kates Mt to the Greenbriar was not
            L3..it
            > was a coax (L1 type) Wire Line Entrance Link for 1 mastergroup(the
            > U600 LMX-3), much like the coax between Garden City & Wash 1; and
            it
            > does'nt look like the full capacity was used, with just the single
            > private line testboard, small distributing frame & just a few A6
            > channel banks in the equipment room.


            A retired cable supervisor told me recently that he oversaw the Kates
            Mt coax intallation.Men in Black met with him others involved at
            night following their vehicles to an unknown location nearby, & read
            the riot(read espionage)act to them, and told them when & where they
            could work on the project & provided a cover story about testing a
            new type of cable in mountainous terrain......seems appropriate.
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