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Echo-Fox station list

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  • Albert LaFrance
    I ve posted a list of the Echo-Fox radio sites, as of March 1973: http://coldwardc.homestead.com/files/Echo-Fox/index.html Quite a few of the locations were
    Message 1 of 17 , Jun 16, 2002
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      I've posted a list of the Echo-Fox radio sites, as of March 1973:

      http://coldwardc.homestead.com/files/Echo-Fox/index.html

      Quite a few of the locations were unfamiliar to me, both as E-F sites and as
      Bell System facilities.

      Albert
    • hooligan@aol.com
      In a message dated 6/16/2002 6:59:26 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ... Sites changed somewhat over the years, depending on who was POTUS & where he liked to
      Message 2 of 17 , Jun 16, 2002
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        In a message dated 6/16/2002 6:59:26 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
        albertjlafrance@... writes:


        > I've posted a list of the Echo-Fox radio sites, as of March 1973:
        >
        > http://coldwardc.homestead.com/files/Echo-Fox/index.html
        >
        > Quite a few of the locations were unfamiliar to me, both as E-F sites and
        > as
        > Bell System facilities.


        Sites changed somewhat over the years, depending on who was POTUS & where
        he liked to travel. The basic layout was to provide coverage for a flight
        across the mid USA, and then some major cities.

        I remember being told one Florida site was added during the Nixon era
        because Nixon was often headed down there to hang out with his pal Bebe
        Rebozo, and then that site was shut down & the equipment moved elsewhere
        later on after Nixon left. I think they did that with a couple WBFM MUX GEPs
        as well.

        E/F was of course a non-secure circuit for the great majority of it's
        life, and was fun for who knows how many thousands of hobbyists to monitor,
        as well as being a good source for spies (including the media).

        While in DC around 1986, I heard Senator Larry Pressler (from one of the
        Dakotas) conspire with one of his aides to come up with a plausible excuse as
        to why he missed a Senate vote that was very important to his state (they
        decided his aide would issue a press release indicating Pressler's DC area
        home had been B&E'd [which apparently was true], and that the police needed
        him on the scene [which was a lie -- besides, he was still on the plane
        returning from some junket when the vote took place].

        At least during my monitoring era starting 20 years ago, it was somewhat
        rare to catch the POTUS on E/F, but depending on the status of other circuits
        -- secure UHF SATCOM & secure/non-secure UHF WBFM multiplexed circuits -- if
        the POTUS wanted to make a call & E/F was about all that was available, you
        advise the POTUS that only a non-secure circuit is available, and you have
        CROWN CONTROL (E/F & other circuit tech control) wake up CROWN (in this
        context, the WH non-sure switchboard operator) & put the call through, with
        the AF1 comms operator always monitoring the call ("to ensure circuit
        quality" -- I know several Presidential comms old-timers who know who 'Deep
        Throat' is, because DT occasionally made calls from the Special Air Mission
        aircraft), & dropping it if he heard something he had reason to believe was
        classified, unless it was an extreme contingency.

        The funniest things heard were the the First Ladies calling their hubbies
        to ask if they'd be home in time for dinner, and the most interesting thing I
        ever heard on E/F as a radio-geek civiaql hobbyist was a brief conversation
        between Hitlary & Bill. You could definitely tell there was zero love (or
        like, or interest, or respect...) in that relationship...

        But anyway, sometime in the 1970s or very early 1980s, it was discovered
        that a very wealthy, foreign (Norway, if I recall correctly) radio monitoring
        enthusiast had paid who knows how much $$$ to have remote receive sites
        installed near most or all of the E/F ground sites, and then have the audio
        from 407.850/415.70 piped over to his home.

        The only way EOP/WHMO/WHCA found out about this is because the guy actually
        called them up once, and explained what he'd been doing! He demonstrated
        some knowledge of classified programs, based solely on his extensive
        (complete?!) ability to monitor E/F.

        I know it sounds far-fetched, but the story was related to me by the WH
        person that'd ended up speaking to him. I want to say that it was that
        greedy bitch Ma Bell that basically said "Oh, you want to remotely monitor
        the Nationwide-E/F system and have the audio fed to you in Norway? We'd be
        happy to set it up for you, for only $XXXXX!" (and never bother to ask WHCA
        what they thought about the deal...), but my memory on whether it'd been done
        by Bell is somewhat hazy.

        WHCA had wanted to drop E/F since the mid-1980s because it's AT&T expenses
        were eating away a healthy portion of WHCA's budget (contrary to popular
        belief, their budget wasn't/isn't unlimited), and by the 1980s, wasn't deemed
        very high in terms of quality & reliability. Reliable INMARSAT access is
        what finally allowed for E/F to be phased out in the mid to late 1990s.


        Tim


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • ozob99
        ... sites and ... POTUS & where ... flight ... era ... Bebe ... elsewhere ... WBFM MUX GEPs ... it s ... monitor, ... one of the ... excuse as ... (they ... DC
        Message 3 of 17 , Jun 17, 2002
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          --- In coldwarcomms@y..., hooligan@a... wrote:
          > In a message dated 6/16/2002 6:59:26 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
          > albertjlafrance@c... writes:
          >
          >
          > > I've posted a list of the Echo-Fox radio sites, as of March 1973:
          > >
          > > http://coldwardc.homestead.com/files/Echo-Fox/index.html
          > >
          > > Quite a few of the locations were unfamiliar to me, both as E-F
          sites and
          > > as
          > > Bell System facilities.
          >
          >
          > Sites changed somewhat over the years, depending on who was
          POTUS & where
          > he liked to travel. The basic layout was to provide coverage for a
          flight
          > across the mid USA, and then some major cities.
          >
          > I remember being told one Florida site was added during the Nixon
          era
          > because Nixon was often headed down there to hang out with his pal
          Bebe
          > Rebozo, and then that site was shut down & the equipment moved
          elsewhere
          > later on after Nixon left. I think they did that with a couple
          WBFM MUX GEPs
          > as well.
          >
          > E/F was of course a non-secure circuit for the great majority of
          it's
          > life, and was fun for who knows how many thousands of hobbyists to
          monitor,
          > as well as being a good source for spies (including the media).
          >
          > While in DC around 1986, I heard Senator Larry Pressler (from
          one of the
          > Dakotas) conspire with one of his aides to come up with a plausible
          excuse as
          > to why he missed a Senate vote that was very important to his state
          (they
          > decided his aide would issue a press release indicating Pressler's
          DC area
          > home had been B&E'd [which apparently was true], and that the
          police needed
          > him on the scene [which was a lie -- besides, he was still on the
          plane
          > returning from some junket when the vote took place].
          >
          > At least during my monitoring era starting 20 years ago, it was
          somewhat
          > rare to catch the POTUS on E/F, but depending on the status of
          other circuits
          > -- secure UHF SATCOM & secure/non-secure UHF WBFM multiplexed
          circuits -- if
          > the POTUS wanted to make a call & E/F was about all that was
          available, you
          > advise the POTUS that only a non-secure circuit is available, and
          you have
          > CROWN CONTROL (E/F & other circuit tech control) wake up CROWN (in
          this
          > context, the WH non-sure switchboard operator) & put the call
          through, with
          > the AF1 comms operator always monitoring the call ("to ensure
          circuit
          > quality" -- I know several Presidential comms old-timers who know
          who 'Deep
          > Throat' is, because DT occasionally made calls from the Special Air
          Mission
          > aircraft), & dropping it if he heard something he had reason to
          believe was
          > classified, unless it was an extreme contingency.
          >
          > The funniest things heard were the the First Ladies calling their
          hubbies
          > to ask if they'd be home in time for dinner, and the most
          interesting thing I
          > ever heard on E/F as a radio-geek civiaql hobbyist was a brief
          conversation
          > between Hitlary & Bill. You could definitely tell there was zero
          love (or
          > like, or interest, or respect...) in that relationship...
          >
          > But anyway, sometime in the 1970s or very early 1980s, it was
          discovered
          > that a very wealthy, foreign (Norway, if I recall correctly) radio
          monitoring
          > enthusiast had paid who knows how much $$$ to have remote receive
          sites
          > installed near most or all of the E/F ground sites, and then have
          the audio
          > from 407.850/415.70 piped over to his home.
          >
          > The only way EOP/WHMO/WHCA found out about this is because the
          guy actually
          > called them up once, and explained what he'd been doing! He
          demonstrated
          > some knowledge of classified programs, based solely on his
          extensive
          > (complete?!) ability to monitor E/F.
          >
          > I know it sounds far-fetched, but the story was related to me by
          the WH
          > person that'd ended up speaking to him. I want to say that it
          was that
          > greedy bitch Ma Bell that basically said "Oh, you want to remotely
          monitor
          > the Nationwide-E/F system and have the audio fed to you in Norway?
          We'd be
          > happy to set it up for you, for only $XXXXX!" (and never bother to
          ask WHCA
          > what they thought about the deal...), but my memory on whether it'd
          been done
          > by Bell is somewhat hazy.
          >
          > WHCA had wanted to drop E/F since the mid-1980s because it's
          AT&T expenses
          > were eating away a healthy portion of WHCA's budget (contrary to
          popular
          > belief, their budget wasn't/isn't unlimited), and by the 1980s,
          wasn't deemed
          > very high in terms of quality & reliability. Reliable INMARSAT
          access is
          > what finally allowed for E/F to be phased out in the mid to late
          1990s.
          >
          >
          > Tim


          The techs at Arlington & Washington also overheard some interesting
          conversations while testing the circuits on trouble reports; i'm sure
          they never monitored any other time, especially the night crew!



          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • ozob99
          ... sites and as ... The Seguine,TX site listed was also notable as the 1st (major at least) microwave international gateway to Mexico around 1960;i don t
          Message 4 of 17 , Jun 17, 2002
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            --- In coldwarcomms@y..., "Albert LaFrance" <albertjlafrance@c...>
            wrote:
            > I've posted a list of the Echo-Fox radio sites, as of March 1973:
            >
            > http://coldwardc.homestead.com/files/Echo-Fox/index.html
            >
            > Quite a few of the locations were unfamiliar to me, both as E-F
            sites and as
            > Bell System facilities.
            >
            > Albert

            The Seguine,TX site listed was also notable as the 1st (major at
            least) microwave international gateway to Mexico around 1960;i don't
            recall whether Mexico had TD2 compatible radio or Lenkurt et al.
          • David Lesher
            ... I lived in Perrine; the only possible site in Perrine was the old Richland Naval Air Station. It s now the Miami Zoo, Uof Miami labs, USG offices & a US
            Message 5 of 17 , Jun 17, 2002
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              > I've posted a list of the Echo-Fox radio sites, as of March 1973:
              >
              > http://coldwardc.homestead.com/files/Echo-Fox/index.html
              >
              > Quite a few of the locations were unfamiliar to me, both as E-F
              > sites and as
              > Bell System facilities.
              >
              > Albert

              I lived in Perrine; the only possible site in Perrine was the old
              Richland Naval Air Station. It's now the Miami Zoo, Uof Miami labs,
              USG offices & a US BoP Detention Center. (Detention Centers are
              in effect prisons for folks awaiting trial...) Wait, there's also
              a state park.

              IOW, it's huge!

              In the early 60's, it was the HQ for Zenith Technical Enterprises,
              the Agency's cover to run the Bay of Pigs ops.

              There are several communications sites on the property. The blimp
              tower holds dozens of antennas but was alleged to be Miami's.
              Coast Guard on the east has a large commcenter. The Army also had
              a Regional Communication Facility as well. The FAA had a bunch
              of abandoned radars & there may have been a Nike site...

              --
              A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@...
              & no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
              Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
              is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
            • David Lesher
              ... This rings my bogosity meter just like the landing on Interstates thread. How would ANYONE on SAM aircraft
              Message 6 of 17 , Jun 17, 2002
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                Unnamed Administration sources reported that hooligan@... said:

                > I know several Presidential comms old-timers who know who 'Deep
                > Throat' is, because DT occasionally made calls from the Special Air Mission
                > aircraft), & dropping it if he heard something he had reason to believe was
                > classified, unless it was an extreme contingency.


                This rings my bogosity meter just like the 'landing on Interstates'
                thread. <http://www.snopes.com/autos/law/airstrip.htm>

                How would ANYONE on SAM aircraft know Deep Throat's name? Or are
                you implying that HE was onboard, and using known-open comm channels
                to call the Post from onboard ??? Yea, sure!!!!

                His ID would not have been a secret for long, much less STILL be,
                if he had been so careless. Every indication was and is that he
                was very very careful in his tradecraft.


                --
                A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@...
                & no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
                Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
                is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
              • Rick C.
                I don t think it is that implausible . . . First, Deep Throat was a highly placed advisor to the president in a sensitive position. Why would it be unusual
                Message 7 of 17 , Jun 17, 2002
                • 0 Attachment
                  I don't think it is that implausible . . .
                  First, Deep Throat was a highly placed advisor to the president in a
                  sensitive position. Why would it be unusual for him to be with the
                  president on board a SAM or even on his own? Second, if the president often
                  talked in the clear on E-F, why not an advisor? Third, he might not have
                  identified himself as "Deep Throat" - but he may have been the only one on
                  board calling Woodward to set up a meeting when flying into town. A comm
                  operator could easily make the connection post facto that perhaps only
                  person in the Nixon organization that called or contacted Woodward must be
                  Deep Throat. As to not revealing - maybe some people keep their
                  confidentiality agreements seriously, as I would hope.
                  Maybe somebody made a single call over a clear or unclear comm channel
                  (these were the operators, not casual listeners) to Woodward once, and an
                  operator remembered that call. Plausible? Sure. Did it happen? Beats me!
                  Makes a good story though :-)

                  >
                  >This rings my bogosity meter just like the 'landing on Interstates'
                  >thread. <http://www.snopes.com/autos/law/airstrip.htm>
                  >
                  >How would ANYONE on SAM aircraft know Deep Throat's name? Or are
                  >you implying that HE was onboard, and using known-open comm channels
                  >to call the Post from onboard ??? Yea, sure!!!!
                  >
                  >His ID would not have been a secret for long, much less STILL be,
                  >if he had been so careless. Every indication was and is that he
                  >was very very careful in his tradecraft.
                  >
                  >
                  >--
                  >A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@...
                  >& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
                  >Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
                  >is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


                  _________________________________________________________________
                  Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
                • David Lesher
                  ... Well, read today s WashPost. There s still active debate and John Dean has a book on the question. Nixon was known to have wiretapped his own aides in his
                  Message 8 of 17 , Jun 17, 2002
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Unnamed Administration sources reported that Rick C. said:
                    >
                    > I don't think it is that implausible . . .
                    > First, Deep Throat was a highly placed advisor to the president in a
                    > sensitive position. Why would it be unusual for him to be with the
                    > president on board a SAM or even on his own? Second, if the president often
                    > talked in the clear on E-F, why not an advisor? Third, he might not have
                    > identified himself as "Deep Throat" - but he may have been the only one on
                    > board calling Woodward to set up a meeting when flying into town. A comm
                    > operator could easily make the connection post facto that perhaps only
                    > person in the Nixon organization that called or contacted Woodward must be
                    > Deep Throat. As to not revealing - maybe some people keep their
                    > confidentiality agreements seriously, as I would hope.
                    > Maybe somebody made a single call over a clear or unclear comm channel
                    > (these were the operators, not casual listeners) to Woodward once, and an
                    > operator remembered that call. Plausible? Sure. Did it happen? Beats me!
                    > Makes a good story though :-)


                    Well, read today's WashPost. There's still active debate and
                    John Dean has a book on the question.

                    Nixon was known to have wiretapped his own aides in his obsession
                    for secrecy. You think he would NOT have tapped Woodward's?

                    Since DT knew what levels Nixon/ theFBI were up to, he'd be the
                    best person to known how insane a call, any call, to the WashPost
                    would have been.

                    And if you read All The Presidents Men, you get into the
                    complicated meetings. The man used good tradecraft. He had reason
                    to. If he would not call from a office phone, there's no way he'd
                    ever call from a radio-phone.






                    --
                    A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@...
                    & no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
                    Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
                    is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
                  • listen13579
                    Green Hill, RI is missing from the list; was it used only after 1973? Also is Lamar, CO the same as Prospect Valley, CO? ... sites and ... POTUS & where ...
                    Message 9 of 17 , Jun 18, 2002
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Green Hill, RI is missing from the list; was it used only after 1973?
                      Also is Lamar, CO the same as Prospect Valley, CO?


                      --- In coldwarcomms@y..., hooligan@a... wrote:
                      > In a message dated 6/16/2002 6:59:26 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
                      > albertjlafrance@c... writes:
                      >
                      >
                      > > I've posted a list of the Echo-Fox radio sites, as of March 1973:
                      > >
                      > > http://coldwardc.homestead.com/files/Echo-Fox/index.html
                      > >
                      > > Quite a few of the locations were unfamiliar to me, both as E-F
                      sites and
                      > > as
                      > > Bell System facilities.
                      >
                      >
                      > Sites changed somewhat over the years, depending on who was
                      POTUS & where
                      > he liked to travel. The basic layout was to provide coverage for a
                      flight
                      > across the mid USA, and then some major cities.
                      >
                      > I remember being told one Florida site was added during the Nixon
                      era
                      > because Nixon was often headed down there to hang out with his pal
                      Bebe
                      > Rebozo, and then that site was shut down & the equipment moved
                      elsewhere
                      > later on after Nixon left. I think they did that with a couple
                      WBFM MUX GEPs
                      > as well.
                      >
                      > E/F was of course a non-secure circuit for the great majority of
                      it's
                      > life, and was fun for who knows how many thousands of hobbyists to
                      monitor,
                      > as well as being a good source for spies (including the media).
                      >
                      > While in DC around 1986, I heard Senator Larry Pressler (from
                      one of the
                      > Dakotas) conspire with one of his aides to come up with a plausible
                      excuse as
                      > to why he missed a Senate vote that was very important to his state
                      (they
                      > decided his aide would issue a press release indicating Pressler's
                      DC area
                      > home had been B&E'd [which apparently was true], and that the
                      police needed
                      > him on the scene [which was a lie -- besides, he was still on the
                      plane
                      > returning from some junket when the vote took place].
                      >
                      > At least during my monitoring era starting 20 years ago, it was
                      somewhat
                      > rare to catch the POTUS on E/F, but depending on the status of
                      other circuits
                      > -- secure UHF SATCOM & secure/non-secure UHF WBFM multiplexed
                      circuits -- if
                      > the POTUS wanted to make a call & E/F was about all that was
                      available, you
                      > advise the POTUS that only a non-secure circuit is available, and
                      you have
                      > CROWN CONTROL (E/F & other circuit tech control) wake up CROWN (in
                      this
                      > context, the WH non-sure switchboard operator) & put the call
                      through, with
                      > the AF1 comms operator always monitoring the call ("to ensure
                      circuit
                      > quality" -- I know several Presidential comms old-timers who know
                      who 'Deep
                      > Throat' is, because DT occasionally made calls from the Special Air
                      Mission
                      > aircraft), & dropping it if he heard something he had reason to
                      believe was
                      > classified, unless it was an extreme contingency.
                      >
                      > The funniest things heard were the the First Ladies calling their
                      hubbies
                      > to ask if they'd be home in time for dinner, and the most
                      interesting thing I
                      > ever heard on E/F as a radio-geek civiaql hobbyist was a brief
                      conversation
                      > between Hitlary & Bill. You could definitely tell there was zero
                      love (or
                      > like, or interest, or respect...) in that relationship...
                      >
                      > But anyway, sometime in the 1970s or very early 1980s, it was
                      discovered
                      > that a very wealthy, foreign (Norway, if I recall correctly) radio
                      monitoring
                      > enthusiast had paid who knows how much $$$ to have remote receive
                      sites
                      > installed near most or all of the E/F ground sites, and then have
                      the audio
                      > from 407.850/415.70 piped over to his home.
                      >
                      > The only way EOP/WHMO/WHCA found out about this is because the
                      guy actually
                      > called them up once, and explained what he'd been doing! He
                      demonstrated
                      > some knowledge of classified programs, based solely on his
                      extensive
                      > (complete?!) ability to monitor E/F.
                      >
                      > I know it sounds far-fetched, but the story was related to me by
                      the WH
                      > person that'd ended up speaking to him. I want to say that it
                      was that
                      > greedy bitch Ma Bell that basically said "Oh, you want to remotely
                      monitor
                      > the Nationwide-E/F system and have the audio fed to you in Norway?
                      We'd be
                      > happy to set it up for you, for only $XXXXX!" (and never bother to
                      ask WHCA
                      > what they thought about the deal...), but my memory on whether it'd
                      been done
                      > by Bell is somewhat hazy.
                      >
                      > WHCA had wanted to drop E/F since the mid-1980s because it's
                      AT&T expenses
                      > were eating away a healthy portion of WHCA's budget (contrary to
                      popular
                      > belief, their budget wasn't/isn't unlimited), and by the 1980s,
                      wasn't deemed
                      > very high in terms of quality & reliability. Reliable INMARSAT
                      access is
                      > what finally allowed for E/F to be phased out in the mid to late
                      1990s.
                      >
                      >
                      > Tim
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • hooligan@aol.com
                      In a message dated 6/18/2002 9:12:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ... I think not. I see there s a Prospect Valley, CO about 35 miles E of Denver. I was at the
                      Message 10 of 17 , Jun 18, 2002
                      • 0 Attachment
                        In a message dated 6/18/2002 9:12:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
                        listen13579@... writes:


                        >
                        > Green Hill, RI is missing from the list; was it used only after 1973?
                        > Also is Lamar, CO the same as Prospect Valley, CO?


                        I think not.

                        I see there's a Prospect Valley, CO about 35 miles E of Denver.

                        I was at the AT&T Lamar MUX GEP site a couple weeks ago, and it's
                        intact/still operational as a MUX GEP. If there was an E/F site at Prospect
                        Valley, there probably wouldn't have been one at the site S. of Lamar, and
                        there was no old E/F antennas) atop Lamar, whereas the E/F antennas were
                        abandoned in-place atop the AT&T Norway, IL tower when I saw it in late May.


                        Tim


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • long-lines@att.net
                        Albert, Thanks for posting the list; any possibility that you might make it click-able for the sites that researchers have documented/photographed? If you
                        Message 11 of 17 , Jun 20, 2002
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Albert,

                          Thanks for posting the list; any possibility that you
                          might make it "click-able" for the sites that
                          researchers have documented/photographed? If you do, I
                          have photos and info on a couple of them.

                          Chad Perkins
                          Augusta Maine
                          > I've posted a list of the Echo-Fox radio sites, as of March 1973:
                          >
                          > http://coldwardc.homestead.com/files/Echo-Fox/index.html
                          >
                          > Quite a few of the locations were unfamiliar to me, both as E-F sites and as
                          > Bell System facilities.
                          >
                          > Albert
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                          >
                          >
                        • Albert LaFrance
                          Chad, Thanks, that s a good idea. I ve uploaded a first attempt (http://coldwardc.homestead.com/files/Echo-Fox/index.html); any additional information,
                          Message 12 of 17 , Jun 20, 2002
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Chad,

                            Thanks, that's a good idea. I've uploaded a first attempt
                            (http://coldwardc.homestead.com/files/Echo-Fox/index.html); any additional
                            information, photos, links, and corrections would be much appreciated.

                            Albert

                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: <long-lines@...>
                            To: <coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2002 9:20 AM
                            Subject: Re: [coldwarcomms] Echo-Fox station list


                            > Albert,
                            >
                            > Thanks for posting the list; any possibility that you
                            > might make it "click-able" for the sites that
                            > researchers have documented/photographed? If you do, I
                            > have photos and info on a couple of them.
                            >
                            > Chad Perkins
                            > Augusta Maine
                          • Black Max
                            Two other possibilities in Perrine. There was a tower not too far from my old residence, on Quail Roost drive and, about 110 ave. That was some sort of AT&T
                            Message 13 of 17 , Jun 21, 2002
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                              Two other possibilities in Perrine. There was a tower
                              not too far from my old residence, on Quail Roost
                              drive and, about 110 ave. That was some sort of AT&T
                              installation and, then there was the Bell CO on US-1
                              and, 168th st.
                              Regards,
                              Jason Swift
                              --- David Lesher <wb8foz@...> wrote:
                              > > I've posted a list of the Echo-Fox radio sites,
                              > as of March 1973:
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                              http://coldwardc.homestead.com/files/Echo-Fox/index.html
                              > >
                              > > Quite a few of the locations were unfamiliar to
                              > me, both as E-F
                              > > sites and as
                              > > Bell System facilities.
                              > >
                              > > Albert
                              >
                              > I lived in Perrine; the only possible site in
                              > Perrine was the old
                              > Richland Naval Air Station. It's now the Miami Zoo,
                              > Uof Miami labs,
                              > USG offices & a US BoP Detention Center. (Detention
                              > Centers are
                              > in effect prisons for folks awaiting trial...) Wait,
                              > there's also
                              > a state park.
                              >
                              > IOW, it's huge!
                              >
                              > In the early 60's, it was the HQ for Zenith
                              > Technical Enterprises,
                              > the Agency's cover to run the Bay of Pigs ops.
                              >
                              > There are several communications sites on the
                              > property. The blimp
                              > tower holds dozens of antennas but was alleged to be
                              > Miami's.
                              > Coast Guard on the east has a large commcenter. The
                              > Army also had
                              > a Regional Communication Facility as well. The FAA
                              > had a bunch
                              > of abandoned radars & there may have been a Nike
                              > site...
                              >
                              > --
                              > A host is a host from coast to
                              > coast.................wb8foz@...
                              > & no one will talk to a host that's
                              > close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
                              > Unless the host (that isn't
                              > close).........................pob 1433
                              > is busy, hung or
                              > dead....................................20915-1433
                              >


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                            • Robert Cruz
                              jason, funny to find you here! the perrine tower i think is still there. i went there a few years ago to check on our (bellsouth) hf rig. it was a transworld
                              Message 14 of 17 , Jun 21, 2002
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                                jason, funny to find you here!

                                the perrine tower i think is still there. i went there a few years ago
                                to check on our (bellsouth) hf rig. it was a transworld that was remote
                                controlled from the bell hq in miami. rig took a bad lightning strike.

                                robert


                                Black Max wrote:

                                > Two other possibilities in Perrine. There was a tower
                                > not too far from my old residence, on Quail Roost
                                > drive and, about 110 ave. That was some sort of AT&T
                                > installation and, then there was the Bell CO on US-1
                                > and, 168th st.
                                > Regards,
                                > Jason Swift
                                > --- David Lesher <wb8foz@...> wrote:
                                > > > I've posted a list of the Echo-Fox radio sites,
                                > > as of March 1973:
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > >
                                > http://coldwardc.homestead.com/files/Echo-Fox/index.html
                                > > >
                                > > > Quite a few of the locations were unfamiliar to
                                > > me, both as E-F
                                > > > sites and as
                                > > > Bell System facilities.
                                > > >
                                > > > Albert
                                > >
                                > > I lived in Perrine; the only possible site in
                                > > Perrine was the old
                                > > Richland Naval Air Station. It's now the Miami Zoo,
                                > > Uof Miami labs,
                                > > USG offices & a US BoP Detention Center. (Detention
                                > > Centers are
                                > > in effect prisons for folks awaiting trial...) Wait,
                                > > there's also
                                > > a state park.
                                > >
                                > > IOW, it's huge!
                                > >
                                > > In the early 60's, it was the HQ for Zenith
                                > > Technical Enterprises,
                                > > the Agency's cover to run the Bay of Pigs ops.
                                > >
                                > > There are several communications sites on the
                                > > property. The blimp
                                > > tower holds dozens of antennas but was alleged to be
                                > > Miami's.
                                > > Coast Guard on the east has a large commcenter. The
                                > > Army also had
                                > > a Regional Communication Facility as well. The FAA
                                > > had a bunch
                                > > of abandoned radars & there may have been a Nike
                                > > site...
                                > >
                                > > --
                                > > A host is a host from coast to
                                > > coast.................wb8foz@...
                                > > & no one will talk to a host that's
                                > > close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
                                > > Unless the host (that isn't
                                > > close).........................pob 1433
                                > > is busy, hung or
                                > > dead....................................20915-1433
                                > >
                                >
                                >
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                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Dave Emery
                                ... To the best of my knowlage Greenhill was never a Echo Fox site at any time. The primary one serving the NE was in Portland Maine for most of the life of
                                Message 15 of 17 , Jun 21, 2002
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                                  On Tue, Jun 18, 2002 at 08:22:20PM -0000, listen13579 wrote:
                                  > Green Hill, RI is missing from the list; was it used only after 1973?

                                  To the best of my knowlage Greenhill was never a Echo Fox site
                                  at any time. The primary one serving the NE was in Portland Maine for
                                  most of the life of the system - atop the NE Telco buliding on Congress
                                  Street on the platform on the roof with the microwave antennas. That
                                  part of Portland is pretty high, and signals propagated well enough up
                                  and down the coast so the signal from the site was weak but detectable
                                  in the Boston metro area. The site to the south was in NYC atop a
                                  tall building there...

                                  Toward the end of the E/F era another site was set up in Concord
                                  NH - during the period Sununu the older was Bush elders chief of staff.

                                  Greenhill of course was and still is the mux GEP serving the NE,
                                  it apparently started service in that role some time around 1973 to 1975
                                  after the original NE GEP at Peru Mass was decommissioned around 1970
                                  when the Westover based SAC regional headquarters was moved to Grissom
                                  AFB and the "Notch" facility was abandoned. I have fairly strong
                                  reason to believe that there was an interval of 3-5 years in the early
                                  70s between the shutdown of Peru as an active site (codenamed KIDNAP)
                                  and the commissioning of service from Greenhill, but cannot absolutely
                                  certainly say that that was the timing.


                                  --
                                  Dave Emery N1PRE, die@... DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass.
                                  PGP fingerprint = 2047/4D7B08D1 DE 6E E1 CC 1F 1D 96 E2 5D 27 BD B0 24 88 C3 18
                                • David Lesher
                                  ... I don t recall the CO at 168th. The Perrine CO was just east of US1 on Coral Reef aka 152nd. Not a great place for antennas; lots of RFI & little space.
                                  Message 16 of 17 , Jun 23, 2002
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                                    Unnamed Administration sources reported that Black Max said:
                                    >
                                    > Two other possibilities in Perrine. There was a tower
                                    > not too far from my old residence, on Quail Roost
                                    > drive and, about 110 ave. That was some sort of AT&T
                                    > installation and, then there was the Bell CO on US-1
                                    > and, 168th st.


                                    I don't recall the CO at 168th. The Perrine CO was just east
                                    of US1 on Coral Reef aka 152nd. Not a great place for antennas;
                                    lots of RFI & little space.

                                    (That CO was struck by lightning while I lived there; it was
                                    down for 3-4 hours....)

                                    That ATT site looks to be adjacent to the Coast Guard side
                                    of the NAS land....

                                    We can be sure there was no underground; the water table's
                                    only a few foot above sea level at best....

                                    --
                                    A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@...
                                    & no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
                                    Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
                                    is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
                                  • PJH
                                    Great photos! Next time your there, just flip all the switches and see what happens! :) ... Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better [Non-text
                                    Message 17 of 17 , Jul 31, 2002
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                                      Great photos! Next time your there, just flip all the switches and see what happens! :)



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