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Re: [coldwarcomms] Greenbriar - AND Sweetbriar !

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  • Tim
    ... As usual, thank you for finding & sharing these documents. I think what dawned on some of the senior WH & military planners involved is that pretty much
    Message 1 of 3 , Aug 25 10:42 PM
      On 7/10/2014 7:57 AM, goldsmithtim@... [coldwarcomms] wrote:
      > Just came across a trove of documents from 1955 where they are trying to select a presumably alternate White House relocation site, as Mt. Weather was already being excavated at this time.
      >
      > Sweet Briar College was being considered and ultimately selected for the purpose. The other alternates were "Hot Springs" and an unnamed site which may have been the above ground Mt Weather.
      >
      >
      > One document is a memo for Governor Adams from Arthur Flemming dated Novermber 7th 1955 noting that White Sulphur Springs was selected for the Congressional relocation site and they had signatures of the congressional leadership to begin negotiations with the owners of the Greenbrier. It seems to allude to the White House relocation site selection process underway in a redacted section and "if underground shelter is required". (Novermber7th1955.)
      >
      >
      > One document is a memo for Governor Adams from Edward Beach from November 30th 1955 on the criteria for the selection criteria for a White House relocation site, which includes "proximity to the Congressional Relocation Site". Neither Hot Springs nor Sweetbriar "would fulfill the requirements of a White House relocation site." (November30th 1955.pdf)
      >
      >
      > A second memo from Beach to Adams also dated November 30th 1955 notes that Sweet Briar is 75 miles from White Sulphur Springs and "It will be necessary to determine if this is near enough to satisfy both the President and the Congress". "Of the two proposed sites for the White House, only Sweet Briar is capable of having an underground blast-proof structure built upon it" it notes, considering the White House had not yet decided whether it required a "self-contained underground blast shelter, a shelter for critical equipment only with temporary provision for personnel, or an above ground installation only". They estimated it would cost between one quarter and one half million dollars to provide the communications and security infrastructure comparable to Camp David. (November30th1955B.pdf)
      >
      >
      > The fourth document "SUPPLIUMENTAL INFORMATION - SWEET BRIAR COLLEGE" is a survey of the location, communications, housing other and resources resources at Sweet Briar followed by a comparison chart between Sweetbriar College and The Greenbrier Hotel (SweetBriarSurvey.pdf)
      >
      >
      > Considering they were examining underground construction for a White House relocation site that might not be usable until the next president and 2 years after Mt Weather excavation had begun - does this suggest that they were considering protecting the White House/POTUS separate from the civilian government functions at Mt. Weather over the long run? I'd be interested in hearing opinions from the group.

      As usual, thank you for finding & sharing these documents.


      I think what dawned on some of the senior WH & military planners
      involved is that pretty much everyone in the WH -- staffers, aides, etc.
      wants to be close to the POTUS. All that except the real junior people
      who are afraid of him & tend to want to avoid him. You see that in the
      WH today, where people would rather have a converted bathroom as an
      office in the WH, instead of a larger office a 2 minute walk further
      away from the Oval Office, in the OEOB (I still have a hard time calling
      it the EEOB!) or even worse, the New Executive Office Building. For
      the same reason that the WH Situation Room, PEOC, etc. are, I believe
      that their realization back then was the primary ERS for POTUS should
      deliberately be small & somewhat intimate -- as long as good information
      is coming in, POTUS & his key aides don't need 50 other staffers around,
      trying to be helpful. Also, the smaller the facility, the easier to
      manage it OPSEC-wise. So put the POTUS & first family plus essential
      staffers in a small, hardened black site, put a lot of other key
      Executive Branch people in non-hardened structures at the same site or
      better yet, a hardened site a distance away (Mt Wx), and just ensure
      there is communications connectivity between the two in-case POTUS or a
      key staffer wants to consult with them. I think this philosophy also
      helps explain why ANMCC had/has CADRE & Mt Weather had/has CRYSTAL as
      autonomous, WHMO-controlled facilities within the larger hardened
      facilities too. Even Camp David just had a relatively small hardened
      facility for POTUS, first-family, key aides, and WHMO/WHCA operations
      people, with the other staffers topside just having to cross their
      fingers that soviet circular error probable was much worse than believed.

      These mid-1950s documents are very interesting, but I suspect there
      were a flurry of new concerns & corresponding new POTUS contingency
      plans a few years later when the soviet ICBMs became operational &
      nuclear combat with the pesky ruskies seemed much more probable.


      Tim
    • james kester
      Sputnik 1 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia               Sputnik 1 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Sputnik 1 (Russian: Спу́тник-1
      Message 2 of 3 , Aug 26 7:23 AM
        Sputnik 1 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

         
                   
        Sputnik 1 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
        Sputnik 1 (Russian: "Спу́тник-1" Russian pronunciation: [ˈsputnʲɪk], "Satellite-1", ПС-1 (PS-1, i.e. "Простейший Спутник-1", or Elementary Satellite-1))[2] w...
        View on en.wikipedia.org Preview by Yahoo
         
         


        On Tuesday, August 26, 2014 1:42 AM, "Tim polohat@... [coldwarcomms]" <coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



        On 7/10/2014 7:57 AM, goldsmithtim@... [coldwarcomms] wrote:
        > Just came across a trove of documents from 1955 where they are trying to select a presumably alternate White House relocation site, as Mt. Weather was already being excavated at this time.
        >
        >  Sweet Briar College was being considered and ultimately selected for the purpose. The other alternates were "Hot Springs" and an unnamed site which may have been the above ground Mt Weather.

        >
        >  One document is a memo for Governor Adams from Arthur Flemming dated Novermber 7th 1955 noting that White Sulphur Springs was selected for the Congressional relocation site and they had signatures of the  congressional leadership to begin negotiations with the owners of the Greenbrier. It seems to allude to the White House relocation site selection process underway in a redacted section and "if underground shelter is required". (Novermber7th1955.)

        >
        >  One document is a memo for Governor Adams from Edward Beach from November 30th 1955 on the criteria for the selection criteria for a White House relocation site, which includes "proximity to the Congressional Relocation Site". Neither Hot Springs nor Sweetbriar "would fulfill the requirements of a White House relocation site." (November30th 1955.pdf)

        >
        >  A second memo from Beach to Adams also dated November 30th 1955 notes that Sweet Briar is 75 miles from White Sulphur Springs and "It will be necessary to determine if this is near enough to satisfy both the President and the Congress". "Of the two proposed sites for the White House, only Sweet Briar is capable of having an underground blast-proof structure built upon it" it notes, considering the White House had not yet decided whether it required a "self-contained underground blast shelter, a shelter for critical equipment only with temporary provision for personnel, or an above ground installation only". They estimated it would cost between one quarter and one half million dollars to provide the communications and security infrastructure comparable to Camp David.  (November30th1955B.pdf)

        >
        >  The fourth document "SUPPLIUMENTAL INFORMATION - SWEET BRIAR COLLEGE" is a survey of the location, communications, housing other and resources resources at Sweet Briar followed by a comparison chart between Sweetbriar College and The Greenbrier Hotel (SweetBriarSurvey.pdf)

        >
        >  Considering they were examining underground construction for a White House relocation site that might not be usable until the next president and 2 years after Mt Weather excavation had begun -  does this suggest that they were considering protecting the White House/POTUS separate from the civilian government functions at Mt. Weather over the long run? I'd be interested in hearing opinions from the group.

        As usual, thank you for finding & sharing these documents.


          I think what dawned on some of the senior WH & military planners
        involved is that pretty much everyone in the WH -- staffers, aides, etc.
        wants to be close to the POTUS.  All that except the real junior people
        who are afraid of him & tend to want to avoid him.  You see that in the
        WH today, where people would rather have a converted bathroom as an
        office in the WH, instead of a larger office a 2 minute walk further
        away from the Oval Office, in the OEOB (I still have a hard time calling
        it the EEOB!) or even worse, the New Executive Office Building.  For
        the same reason that the WH Situation Room, PEOC, etc. are, I believe
        that their realization back then was the primary ERS for POTUS should
        deliberately be small & somewhat intimate -- as long as good information
        is coming in, POTUS & his key aides don't need 50 other staffers around,
        trying to be helpful.  Also, the smaller the facility, the easier to
        manage it OPSEC-wise.  So put the POTUS & first family plus essential
        staffers in a small, hardened black site, put a lot of other key
        Executive Branch people in non-hardened structures at the same site or
        better yet, a hardened site a distance away (Mt Wx), and just ensure
        there is communications connectivity between the two in-case POTUS or a
        key staffer wants to consult with them.  I think this philosophy also
        helps explain why ANMCC had/has CADRE & Mt Weather had/has CRYSTAL as
        autonomous, WHMO-controlled facilities within the larger hardened
        facilities too.  Even Camp David just had a relatively small hardened
        facility for POTUS, first-family, key aides, and WHMO/WHCA operations
        people, with the other staffers topside just having to cross their
        fingers that soviet circular error probable was much worse than believed.

          These mid-1950s documents are very interesting, but I suspect there
        were a flurry of new concerns & corresponding new POTUS contingency
        plans a few years later when the soviet ICBMs became operational &
        nuclear combat with the pesky ruskies seemed much more probable.


        Tim



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        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • John K Scoggin Jr
        The staffers topside at Camp David (and the White House) also had to worry about imported weapons smuggled in and stored in a cache in the woods or a DC
        Message 3 of 3 , Aug 26 7:39 AM
          The staffers topside at Camp David (and the White House) also had to worry about imported weapons smuggled in and stored in a cache in the woods or a DC basement. Even something as small as a SADM could ruin your day…



          john



          From: coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com [mailto:coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com]
          Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2014 10:23 AM
          To: coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [coldwarcomms] Greenbriar - AND Sweetbriar !







          Sputnik 1 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



          Sputnik 1 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
          Sputnik 1 (Russian: "Спу́тник-1" Russian pronunciation: [ˈsputnʲɪk], "Satellite-1", ПС-1 (PS-1, i.e. "Простейший Спутник-1", or Elementary Satellite-1))[2] w...
          View on en.wikipedia.org Preview by Yahoo



          On Tuesday, August 26, 2014 1:42 AM, "Tim polohat@... <mailto:polohat@...> [coldwarcomms]" <coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com <mailto:coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com> > wrote:


          On 7/10/2014 7:57 AM, goldsmithtim@... <mailto:goldsmithtim@...> [coldwarcomms] wrote:
          > Just came across a trove of documents from 1955 where they are trying to select a presumably alternate White House relocation site, as Mt. Weather was already being excavated at this time.
          >
          > Sweet Briar College was being considered and ultimately selected for the purpose. The other alternates were "Hot Springs" and an unnamed site which may have been the above ground Mt Weather.
          >
          >
          > One document is a memo for Governor Adams from Arthur Flemming dated Novermber 7th 1955 noting that White Sulphur Springs was selected for the Congressional relocation site and they had signatures of the congressional leadership to begin negotiations with the owners of the Greenbrier. It seems to allude to the White House relocation site selection process underway in a redacted section and "if underground shelter is required". (Novermber7th1955.)
          >
          >
          > One document is a memo for Governor Adams from Edward Beach from November 30th 1955 on the criteria for the selection criteria for a White House relocation site, which includes "proximity to the Congressional Relocation Site". Neither Hot Springs nor Sweetbriar "would fulfill the requirements of a White House relocation site." (November30th 1955.pdf)
          >
          >
          > A second memo from Beach to Adams also dated November 30th 1955 notes that Sweet Briar is 75 miles from White Sulphur Springs and "It will be necessary to determine if this is near enough to satisfy both the President and the Congress". "Of the two proposed sites for the White House, only Sweet Briar is capable of having an underground blast-proof structure built upon it" it notes, considering the White House had not yet decided whether it required a "self-contained underground blast shelter, a shelter for critical equipment only with temporary provision for personnel, or an above ground installation only". They estimated it would cost between one quarter and one half million dollars to provide the communications and security infrastructure comparable to Camp David. (November30th1955B.pdf)
          >
          >
          > The fourth document "SUPPLIUMENTAL INFORMATION - SWEET BRIAR COLLEGE" is a survey of the location, communications, housing other and resources resources at Sweet Briar followed by a comparison chart between Sweetbriar College and The Greenbrier Hotel (SweetBriarSurvey.pdf)
          >
          >
          > Considering they were examining underground construction for a White House relocation site that might not be usable until the next president and 2 years after Mt Weather excavation had begun - does this suggest that they were considering protecting the White House/POTUS separate from the civilian government functions at Mt. Weather over the long run? I'd be interested in hearing opinions from the group.

          As usual, thank you for finding & sharing these documents.

          I think what dawned on some of the senior WH & military planners
          involved is that pretty much everyone in the WH -- staffers, aides, etc.
          wants to be close to the POTUS. All that except the real junior people
          who are afraid of him & tend to want to avoid him. You see that in the
          WH today, where people would rather have a converted bathroom as an
          office in the WH, instead of a larger office a 2 minute walk further
          away from the Oval Office, in the OEOB (I still have a hard time calling
          it the EEOB!) or even worse, the New Executive Office Building. For
          the same reason that the WH Situation Room, PEOC, etc. are, I believe
          that their realization back then was the primary ERS for POTUS should
          deliberately be small & somewhat intimate -- as long as good information
          is coming in, POTUS & his key aides don't need 50 other staffers around,
          trying to be helpful. Also, the smaller the facility, the easier to
          manage it OPSEC-wise. So put the POTUS & first family plus essential
          staffers in a small, hardened black site, put a lot of other key
          Executive Branch people in non-hardened structures at the same site or
          better yet, a hardened site a distance away (Mt Wx), and just ensure
          there is communications connectivity between the two in-case POTUS or a
          key staffer wants to consult with them. I think this philosophy also
          helps explain why ANMCC had/has CADRE & Mt Weather had/has CRYSTAL as
          autonomous, WHMO-controlled facilities within the larger hardened
          facilities too. Even Camp David just had a relatively small hardened
          facility for POTUS, first-family, key aides, and WHMO/WHCA operations
          people, with the other staffers topside just having to cross their
          fingers that soviet circular error probable was much worse than believed.

          These mid-1950s documents are very interesting, but I suspect there
          were a flurry of new concerns & corresponding new POTUS contingency
          plans a few years later when the soviet ICBMs became operational &
          nuclear combat with the pesky ruskies seemed much more probable.

          Tim

          ------------------------------------

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          ------------------------------------

          Yahoo Groups Links

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