Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

what is a WECO "2d singing point test set"? museum was given one

Expand Messages
  • couryhousesmecc
    got a nice present today at the museum... rolling tektronix scopes 416 tubes plugged into weird things... but... also got... what is a WECO 2d
    Message 1 of 8 , Apr 28, 2014
    • 0 Attachment
      got a nice present today at the museum... rolling tektronix scopes
      416 tubes plugged into weird things...
      but... also got...

      what is a WECO "2d singing point test set"? museum was given one
      also got a 6h impulse counter... for dial pulses??? I dunno Info
      ? Help?
      the cool thing about the 6H it says Mt Laguna SAGE on it!

      by the way for more sage at Luke afb and also sage canada see
      _www.smecc.org_ (http://www.smecc.org)

      thanks ed sharpe archivist for smecc


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • John Scoggin
      The utility that I work for used to use Hekimian test sets to measure impulse noise (and a LOT of other parameters) which reduced the error performance of our
      Message 2 of 8 , Apr 28, 2014
      • 0 Attachment
        The utility that I work for used to use Hekimian test sets to measure
        impulse noise (and a LOT of other parameters) which reduced the error
        performance of our old analog modem circuits. You can see a short
        description of it on page 18 of this old Hekimian manual:
        http://servv89pn0aj.sn.sourcedns.com/~gbpprorg/zine2/misc/TUT_ANALOG.pdf

        There is an ITU standard for this measurement, and lots of others...

        john
        old electric utility guy (36 years and counting! Still remembering the
        painful upgrade to 4800 bps modems... )

        On 4/28/2014 5:03 PM, COURYHOUSE@... wrote:
        >
        > got a nice present today at the museum... rolling tektronix scopes
        > 416 tubes plugged into weird things...
        > but... also got...
        >
        > what is a WECO "2d singing point test set"? museum was given one
        > also got a 6h impulse counter... for dial pulses??? I dunno Info
        > ? Help?
        > the cool thing about the 6H it says Mt Laguna SAGE on it!
        >
        > by the way for more sage at Luke afb and also sage canada see
        > _www.smecc.org_ (http://www.smecc.org)
        >
        > thanks ed sharpe archivist for smecc
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • ozob99
        The 2D singing point test set was used to test 4W term set(hybrid) balance on circuits converting from 2W to 4W ,for bad return loss, which could lead to
        Message 3 of 8 , Apr 28, 2014
        • 0 Attachment
          The 2D singing point test set was used to test 4W term set(hybrid) balance on circuits converting from 2W to 4W ,for bad return loss, which could lead to feedback called singing.

          6H counts impluse noise hits in a timeline, created on carrier or some vf layouts,measured at vf patch jacks; not friendly to data circuits.


          Both are probably described in detail at telephonecollectors.info or other websites on a search of the terms.






          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Facility 406 DM09
          which could lead to feedback called singing. An recordings of this out there? Kurt
          Message 4 of 8 , Apr 28, 2014
          • 0 Attachment
            "which could lead to feedback called singing."

            An recordings of this out there?

            Kurt
          • ozob99
            Singing is analogous to acoustic feedback in a PA system and sounds similar, a high pitched squeal resulting from an unbalance in the hybrid coil arrangement
            Message 5 of 8 , Apr 29, 2014
            • 0 Attachment
              Singing is analogous to acoustic feedback in a PA system and sounds similar, a high pitched squeal resulting from an unbalance in the hybrid coil arrangement of 2W to 4W circuits, allowing too much energy to flow from the transmit side over into the receive path. Initial line up required balancing the 2W line with a compromise or precision network electrically matching the characteristics of the cable pair or 2W central office equipment.

              C carrier repeaters were prone to singing with open wire unbalances.

              More details may be found online,including the "Green Book" on Alberts site:


              http://long-lines.net/sources/att_principles_ocr.pdf

              P267
            • Facility 406 DM09
              Singing is analogous to acoustic feedback in a PA system and sounds similar, a high pitched squeal resulting from an unbalance in the hybrid coil arrangement
              Message 6 of 8 , Apr 29, 2014
              • 0 Attachment
                "Singing is analogous to acoustic feedback in a PA system and sounds
                similar, a high pitched squeal resulting from an unbalance in the hybrid
                coil arrangement of "

                Is it steady or does it wander around a bit, frequency wise?

                There is a sound referred to as "Whale Song" heard on some Military HF radio
                circuits, nobody has claimed to know the exact cause, but several decades of
                speculation suggests some sort of feedback from a telephone line somewhere
                in the circuit.

                Kurt
              • wftroskey
                We had impulse noise counters at Feldberg as part of our test equipment. I don t remember which brand we used. They recorded noise hits or bursts on the
                Message 7 of 8 , Apr 30, 2014
                • 0 Attachment
                  We had impulse noise counters at Feldberg as part of our test equipment. I don't remember which brand we used. They recorded noise "hits" or bursts on the circuit.
                  As I recall, they weren't used as a regular, preventative type test, but for troubleshooting complaints of noise on a particular circuit. The distant end Tech Control would put a 600 ohm termination in their transmit side on the VF patch panel, & the receiving end Tech Control would plug the impulse noise counter into the receive side (all after alt-routing the circuit, of course). It would be left on for an hour or two or sometimes 24; as long as was necessary to get a good reading on the amount of noise. Sometimes it would lead to a bad solder joint on the main frame, or a bad connection in the pins of a piece of slide-in equipment; more often than not, it was microwave fading that was affecting every circuit on every group on that link, but only one user was complaining.
                  We usually didn't bother using an impulse noise counter on any of the circuits traversing the tropo shots over the English Channel during the spring; we knew exactly what was causing THAT noise!


                  Bill



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • ozob99
                  Typically the singing was well above 1000 hz and fairly steady, but was modulated when speech was attempted, or the circuit bridged for testing; each trouble
                  Message 8 of 8 , Apr 30, 2014
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Typically the singing was well above 1000 hz and fairly steady, but was modulated when speech was attempted, or the circuit bridged for testing; each trouble case had different sounds since the unbalance was from various conditions e.g. wet,leaking or damaged cable pairs, bridge taps; errors such as someone tweaking the wrong amplifier or pad, cable splicing; 2W radio phone patches could be a cause. Singing was a issue from the 1920's-1960's,the problem gradually faded away in the 1960's as local channel & toll cable VF circuits were going 4W or short haul carrier. Commercial/military air-ground and other radio-landline circuits were almost always 4W so no singing problems.
                  Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.