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Kansas City-Joplin-Tulsa K-Carrier Route

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  • rjfrank1@ymail.com
    The updated GPS Visualizer route map being used for the Northern Illinois K-Hut discussion thread (Message #28887) also shows the K-Carrier Route between
    Message 1 of 14 , Nov 3, 2013
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      The updated GPS Visualizer route map being used for the Northern Illinois K-Hut discussion thread (Message #28887) also shows the K-Carrier Route between Joplin-Kansas City.  I have been able to locate several of the sites missing from that particular route with exception of the Martin City K site location.

      ARMA K: 37 30 48.19 N, 94 41 9.82 W
      Note:  I believe that K auxiliary repeater site was located here vice as depicted on the map based on the building/land parcel dimensions.  The available historical imagery is inconclusive but the building/land parcel dimensions are more in line with auxiliary repeaters sites further north towards Kansas City. Compare this site with the Hammond K/Louisburg K site locations. The Arma K site location is best viewed (or interpreted) using the Google Earth imagery dated from 9/1991.  The facility building appears to have been demolished sometime prior to 2/2012.

      FORT SCOTT (VF/K): 37 44 14.43 N, 94 42 14.71 W

      HAMMOND K: 37 57 1.31 N, 94 40 40.37 W

      PLEASANTON K: 38 10 5.56 N, 94 40 40.67 W

      LOUISBURG K: 38 38 58.73 N, 94 37 50.17 W
      Note: The Louisburg K site location is best viewed (or interpreted) using the Google Earth imagery dated from 1991/1996.  The facility building appears to have been demolished sometime prior to 2/2002.


      In respect to the K-Carrier route between Joplin-Tulsa, I sorted through the various discussion threads concerning the route and believe I have located the remaining auxiliary repeater site locations not previously posted.

      CATOOSA K: 36 13 11.86 N, 95 45 34.96 W

      NARCISSA K: 36 48 2.78 N, 94 54 49.75 W

      QUAPAW K:  I believe that site was located at (36 57 11.17 N, 94 42 16.69 W) based on historical imagery and the cable ROW passing through the site location.  Unfortunately, the building structure is only seen on poor resolution Google Earth imagery dated from 3/23/1995 and then appears to have been demolished prior to 2/13/2002.

      >RJFrank
    • El Bizarro
      I think you may be Slightly Off with regards to Fort Scott.. A Coldwar ATT Station is Still Standing here... 37° 51.029 , -94° 46.083 Rob.. On Sunday,
      Message 2 of 14 , Nov 3, 2013
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        I think you may be Slightly Off with regards to Fort Scott..

        A Coldwar ATT Station is Still Standing here...

        37° 51.029', -94° 46.083'

        Rob..



        On Sunday, November 3, 2013 9:05 AM, "rjfrank1@..." <rjfrank1@...> wrote:
         
        The updated GPS Visualizer route map being used for the Northern Illinois K-Hut discussion thread (Message #28887) also shows the K-Carrier Route between Joplin-Kansas City.  I have been able to locate several of the sites missing from that particular route with exception of the Martin City K site location.

        ARMA K: 37 30 48.19 N, 94 41 9.82 W
        Note:  I believe that K auxiliary repeater site was located here vice as depicted on the map based on the building/land parcel dimensions.  The available historical imagery is inconclusive but the building/land parcel dimensions are more in line with auxiliary repeaters sites further north towards Kansas City. Compare this site with the Hammond K/Louisburg K site locations. The Arma K site location is best viewed (or interpreted) using the Google Earth imagery dated from 9/1991.  The facility building appears to have been demolished sometime prior to 2/2012.

        FORT SCOTT (VF/K): 37 44 14.43 N, 94 42 14.71 W

        HAMMOND K: 37 57 1.31 N, 94 40 40.37 W

        PLEASANTON K: 38 10 5.56 N, 94 40 40.67 W

        LOUISBURG K: 38 38 58.73 N, 94 37 50.17 W
        Note: The Louisburg K site location is best viewed (or interpreted) using the Google Earth imagery dated from 1991/1996.  The facility building appears to have been demolished sometime prior to 2/2002.


        In respect to the K-Carrier route between Joplin-Tulsa, I sorted through the various discussion threads concerning the route and believe I have located the remaining auxiliary repeater site locations not previously posted.

        CATOOSA K: 36 13 11.86 N, 95 45 34.96 W

        NARCISSA K: 36 48 2.78 N, 94 54 49.75 W

        QUAPAW K:  I believe that site was located at (36 57 11.17 N, 94 42 16.69 W) based on historical imagery and the cable ROW passing through the site location.  Unfortunately, the building structure is only seen on poor resolution Google Earth imagery dated from 3/23/1995 and then appears to have been demolished prior to 2/13/2002.

        >RJFrank


      • El Bizarro
        There is also a Tower Still Standing Just South of Lewisburg on the Intersection of US59 and w399 St.. 38° 24.238 , -94° 40.477 Rob.. On , El Bizarro
        Message 3 of 14 , Nov 3, 2013
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          There is also a Tower Still Standing Just South of Lewisburg on the Intersection of US59 and w399 St..

          38° 24.238', -94° 40.477'

          Rob..



          On , El Bizarro <el_bizarro2000@...> wrote:
          I think you may be Slightly Off with regards to Fort Scott..

          A Coldwar ATT Station is Still Standing here...

          37° 51.029', -94° 46.083'

          Rob..



          On Sunday, November 3, 2013 9:05 AM, "rjfrank1@..." <rjfrank1@...> wrote:
           
          The updated GPS Visualizer route map being used for the Northern Illinois K-Hut discussion thread (Message #28887) also shows the K-Carrier Route between Joplin-Kansas City.  I have been able to locate several of the sites missing from that particular route with exception of the Martin City K site location.

          ARMA K: 37 30 48.19 N, 94 41 9.82 W
          Note:  I believe that K auxiliary repeater site was located here vice as depicted on the map based on the building/land parcel dimensions.  The available historical imagery is inconclusive but the building/land parcel dimensions are more in line with auxiliary repeaters sites further north towards Kansas City. Compare this site with the Hammond K/Louisburg K site locations. The Arma K site location is best viewed (or interpreted) using the Google Earth imagery dated from 9/1991.  The facility building appears to have been demolished sometime prior to 2/2012.

          FORT SCOTT (VF/K): 37 44 14.43 N, 94 42 14.71 W

          HAMMOND K: 37 57 1.31 N, 94 40 40.37 W

          PLEASANTON K: 38 10 5.56 N, 94 40 40.67 W

          LOUISBURG K: 38 38 58.73 N, 94 37 50.17 W
          Note: The Louisburg K site location is best viewed (or interpreted) using the Google Earth imagery dated from 1991/1996.  The facility building appears to have been demolished sometime prior to 2/2002.


          In respect to the K-Carrier route between Joplin-Tulsa, I sorted through the various discussion threads concerning the route and believe I have located the remaining auxiliary repeater site locations not previously posted.

          CATOOSA K: 36 13 11.86 N, 95 45 34.96 W

          NARCISSA K: 36 48 2.78 N, 94 54 49.75 W

          QUAPAW K:  I believe that site was located at (36 57 11.17 N, 94 42 16.69 W) based on historical imagery and the cable ROW passing through the site location.  Unfortunately, the building structure is only seen on poor resolution Google Earth imagery dated from 3/23/1995 and then appears to have been demolished prior to 2/13/2002.

          >RJFrank




        • ozob99
          Here is a pic captioned SW Bell but may have been LL: http://www.destinationdeserted.com/locations/industrial/southwestern-bell-repeater-station#.UnaZE_mTjnt
          Message 4 of 14 , Nov 3, 2013
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             Here is a pic captioned SW Bell but may have been LL:


            http://www.destinationdeserted.com/locations/industrial/southwestern-bell-repeater-station#.UnaZE_mTjnt



            ---In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, <coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

            I think you may be Slightly Off with regards to Fort Scott..

            A Coldwar ATT Station is Still Standing here...

            37° 51.029', -94° 46.083'

            Rob..



            On Sunday, November 3, 2013 9:05 AM, "rjfrank1@..." <rjfrank1@...> wrote:
             
            The updated GPS Visualizer route map being used for the Northern Illinois K-Hut discussion thread (Message #28887) also shows the K-Carrier Route between Joplin-Kansas City.  I have been able to locate several of the sites missing from that particular route with exception of the Martin City K site location.

            ARMA K: 37 30 48.19 N, 94 41 9.82 W
            Note:  I believe that K auxiliary repeater site was located here vice as depicted on the map based on the building/land parcel dimensions.  The available historical imagery is inconclusive but the building/land parcel dimensions are more in line with auxiliary repeaters sites further north towards Kansas City. Compare this site with the Hammond K/Louisburg K site locations. The Arma K site location is best viewed (or interpreted) using the Google Earth imagery dated from 9/1991.  The facility building appears to have been demolished sometime prior to 2/2012.

            FORT SCOTT (VF/K): 37 44 14.43 N, 94 42 14.71 W

            HAMMOND K: 37 57 1.31 N, 94 40 40.37 W

            PLEASANTON K: 38 10 5.56 N, 94 40 40.67 W

            LOUISBURG K: 38 38 58.73 N, 94 37 50.17 W
            Note: The Louisburg K site location is best viewed (or interpreted) using the Google Earth imagery dated from 1991/1996.  The facility building appears to have been demolished sometime prior to 2/2002.


            In respect to the K-Carrier route between Joplin-Tulsa, I sorted through the various discussion threads concerning the route and believe I have located the remaining auxiliary repeater site locations not previously posted.

            CATOOSA K: 36 13 11.86 N, 95 45 34.96 W

            NARCISSA K: 36 48 2.78 N, 94 54 49.75 W

            QUAPAW K:  I believe that site was located at (36 57 11.17 N, 94 42 16.69 W) based on historical imagery and the cable ROW passing through the site location.  Unfortunately, the building structure is only seen on poor resolution Google Earth imagery dated from 3/23/1995 and then appears to have been demolished prior to 2/13/2002.

            >RJFrank


          • william hyatt
            That tower at US59 and 399th street is an active site of some measure. I worked for a company that colocated some fiber optic amplifiers in there for a span
            Message 5 of 14 , Nov 3, 2013
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              That tower at US59 and 399th street is an active site of some measure. I worked for a company that colocated some fiber optic amplifiers in there for a span that runs from Kansas City to Pittsburg Kansas. I am willing to bet it was converted to optical use for AT&T as well. It uses the keypad locks that have to be renewed audibly via telephone to ensure the account is still active.

              Our name for that site was "Jingo", but it may have been LaCygne for AT&T.
            • widebandit
              The station at 37:51 -94:46 was the Fort Scott Long-Lines Radio-Relay station on the 21-hop Windsor Ks to Frick Co route completed around 66- 67. The
              Message 6 of 14 , Nov 3, 2013
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                 The station at 37:51 -94:46 was the Fort Scott Long-Lines Radio-Relay station on the 21-hop Windsor Ks to Frick Co route completed around '66-'67.  The 56'10"x56'10" TD-TH microwave repeater building with 175' Type-M tower is not associated with K...

                 

                http://binged.it/19s23Ci

                The Lookout Ok tower on this route was blown down a few years back.

                 

                - wa -



                ---In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, <ozob99@...> wrote:

                 Here is a pic captioned SW Bell but may have been LL:


                http://www.destinationdeserted.com/locations/industrial/southwestern-bell-repeater-station#.UnaZE_mTjnt



                ---In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, <coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                I think you may be Slightly Off with regards to Fort Scott..

                A Coldwar ATT Station is Still Standing here...

                37° 51.029', -94° 46.083'

                Rob..



                On Sunday, November 3, 2013 9:05 AM, "rjfrank1@..." <rjfrank1@...> wrote:
                 
                The updated GPS Visualizer route map being used for the Northern Illinois K-Hut discussion thread (Message #28887) also shows the K-Carrier Route between Joplin-Kansas City.  I have been able to locate several of the sites missing from that particular route with exception of the Martin City K site location.

                ARMA K: 37 30 48.19 N, 94 41 9.82 W
                Note:  I believe that K auxiliary repeater site was located here vice as depicted on the map based on the building/land parcel dimensions.  The available historical imagery is inconclusive but the building/land parcel dimensions are more in line with auxiliary repeaters sites further north towards Kansas City. Compare this site with the Hammond K/Louisburg K site locations. The Arma K site location is best viewed (or interpreted) using the Google Earth imagery dated from 9/1991.  The facility building appears to have been demolished sometime prior to 2/2012.

                FORT SCOTT (VF/K): 37 44 14.43 N, 94 42 14.71 W

                HAMMOND K: 37 57 1.31 N, 94 40 40.37 W

                PLEASANTON K: 38 10 5.56 N, 94 40 40.67 W

                LOUISBURG K: 38 38 58.73 N, 94 37 50.17 W
                Note: The Louisburg K site location is best viewed (or interpreted) using the Google Earth imagery dated from 1991/1996.  The facility building appears to have been demolished sometime prior to 2/2002.


                In respect to the K-Carrier route between Joplin-Tulsa, I sorted through the various discussion threads concerning the route and believe I have located the remaining auxiliary repeater site locations not previously posted.

                CATOOSA K: 36 13 11.86 N, 95 45 34.96 W

                NARCISSA K: 36 48 2.78 N, 94 54 49.75 W

                QUAPAW K:  I believe that site was located at (36 57 11.17 N, 94 42 16.69 W) based on historical imagery and the cable ROW passing through the site location.  Unfortunately, the building structure is only seen on poor resolution Google Earth imagery dated from 3/23/1995 and then appears to have been demolished prior to 2/13/2002.

                >RJFrank


              • widebandit
                Jingo is a named intersection just west of US69 (W399th St & Jingo Rd), the station east of US69 was LaCygne which began life as a classic red-brick carrier
                Message 7 of 14 , Nov 3, 2013
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                   Jingo is a named intersection just west of US69 (W399th St & Jingo Rd), the station east of US69 was LaCygne which began life as a classic red-brick carrier repeater station and eventually became a terminal main station on the first AR6A service route - Hillsboro Mo - LaCygne Ks - the beginning of the final act for AT&T long-haul analog microwave radio-relay...

                   

                  http://binged.it/1a1TWeX

                  - wa -



                  ---In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, <coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                  That tower at US59 and 399th street is an active site of some measure. I worked for a company that colocated some fiber optic amplifiers in there for a span that runs from Kansas City to Pittsburg Kansas. I am willing to bet it was converted to optical use for AT&T as well. It uses the keypad locks that have to be renewed audibly via telephone to ensure the account is still active.

                  Our name for that site was "Jingo", but it may have been LaCygne for AT&T.
                • Blake Bowers
                  The tower at US59 and 399th is not active. The red brick building was a work center, then a workcenter for the fiber folks. It has not been AT&T since 1992.
                  Message 8 of 14 , Nov 3, 2013
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                    The tower at US59 and 399th is not active.  The red brick building was a work center, then a workcenter for the fiber folks.   It has not been AT&T since 1992.

                     

                    There is a fiber hut belonging to AT&T next door, but now that fiber is dark, and most of the huts and land are being sold off.   I am not sure about the actual status of the fiber there, but the sites south of there are dark and sold or being sold. 

                     

                     

                     


                    From: coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com [mailto: coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of william hyatt
                    Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2013 7:23 PM
                    To: coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: Re: [coldwarcomms] Kansas City-Joplin-Tulsa K-Carrier Route

                     

                     

                    That tower at US59 and 399th street is an active site of some measure. I worked for a company that colocated some fiber optic amplifiers in there for a span that runs from Kansas City to Pittsburg Kansas . I am willing to bet it was converted to optical use for AT&T as well. It uses the keypad locks that have to be renewed audibly via telephone to ensure the account is still active.

                     

                    Our name for that site was "Jingo", but it may have been LaCygne for AT&T.

                  • cpe122
                    Thanks! The new additions are in capital letters as in your e-mail. I ve also cleaned up and corrected some of the other lat & lon s. In this drawing: -
                    Message 9 of 14 , Nov 4, 2013
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                      Thanks!  The new additions are in capital letters as in your e-mail.  I've also cleaned up and corrected some of the other lat & lon's.


                      In this drawing:

                      - red/orange/yellow are all located with a high degree of confidence and/or confirmation,

                      - brown is destroyed,

                      - pink are guesses and estimations,

                      - green is the Vinta VF RS (no K repeaters).


                      http://www.gpsvisualizer.com/display/1383588569-10184-70.16.73.11.html


                      I favor your selection of the Arma location for Fort Scott KS, and I had previously picked the same location in Peroira Twp for Joplin K1S (you called Quapaw).  A review of USGS maps shows that as a power line ROW.  I have made another suggestion for Peroira-Joplin K1S.


                      BTW the square buildings s/b about 30' corner to corner (I think the deminsions might be in one of the BSTJs), and the lots were often 100' square (thus around 1/4 acre).


                      Oklahoma City anyone?


                      /cpe






                      ---In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, <coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                      The updated GPS Visualizer route map being used for the Northern Illinois K-Hut discussion thread (Message #28887) also shows the K-Carrier Route between Joplin-Kansas City.  I have been able to locate several of the sites missing from that particular route with exception of the Martin City K site location.

                      ARMA K: 37 30 48.19 N, 94 41 9.82 W
                      Note:  I believe that K auxiliary repeater site was located here vice as depicted on the map based on the building/land parcel dimensions.  The available historical imagery is inconclusive but the building/land parcel dimensions are more in line with auxiliary repeaters sites further north towards Kansas City. Compare this site with the Hammond K/Louisburg K site locations. The Arma K site location is best viewed (or interpreted) using the Google Earth imagery dated from 9/1991.  The facility building appears to have been demolished sometime prior to 2/2012.

                      FORT SCOTT (VF/K): 37 44 14.43 N, 94 42 14.71 W

                      HAMMOND K: 37 57 1.31 N, 94 40 40.37 W

                      PLEASANTON K: 38 10 5.56 N, 94 40 40.67 W

                      LOUISBURG K: 38 38 58.73 N, 94 37 50.17 W
                      Note: The Louisburg K site location is best viewed (or interpreted) using the Google Earth imagery dated from 1991/1996.  The facility building appears to have been demolished sometime prior to 2/2002.


                      In respect to the K-Carrier route between Joplin-Tulsa, I sorted through the various discussion threads concerning the route and believe I have located the remaining auxiliary repeater site locations not previously posted.

                      CATOOSA K: 36 13 11.86 N, 95 45 34.96 W

                      NARCISSA K: 36 48 2.78 N, 94 54 49.75 W

                      QUAPAW K:  I believe that site was located at (36 57 11.17 N, 94 42 16.69 W) based on historical imagery and the cable ROW passing through the site location.  Unfortunately, the building structure is only seen on poor resolution Google Earth imagery dated from 3/23/1995 and then appears to have been demolished prior to 2/13/2002.

                      >RJFrank
                    • ozob99
                      http://www.kansas-companies.com/companies/att-microwave-tower-jingo-station.html ... That tower at US59 and 399th street is an active site of some measure. I
                      Message 10 of 14 , Nov 4, 2013
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                         http://www.kansas-companies.com/companies/att-microwave-tower-jingo-station.html



                        ---In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, <coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                        That tower at US59 and 399th street is an active site of some measure. I worked for a company that colocated some fiber optic amplifiers in there for a span that runs from Kansas City to Pittsburg Kansas. I am willing to bet it was converted to optical use for AT&T as well. It uses the keypad locks that have to be renewed audibly via telephone to ensure the account is still active.

                        Our name for that site was "Jingo", but it may have been LaCygne for AT&T.
                      • Blake Bowers
                        A lot of the old AT&T sites still have local phone service. I don t think too many people kept records back before 1984. (this website company picked up on
                        Message 11 of 14 , Nov 5, 2013
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                          A lot of the old AT&T sites still have local phone service.  I don’t think too many people kept records back before 1984.

                           

                          (this website company picked up on the phone line there)

                           

                          I called my cell phone from the “jingo” site, and caller ID came up as AT&T

                           

                          I have had a number of sites where AT&T has been paying electric for many many years after they got rid of it, or RIPed it.  Major ordeal to get T to shut power off anywhere.

                           

                           

                           


                          From: coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com [mailto: coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of ozob99@...
                          Sent: Monday, November 04, 2013 1:45 PM
                          To: coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: RE: Re: Re: [coldwarcomms] Kansas City-Joplin-Tulsa K-Carrier Route

                           

                           

                           http://www.kansas-companies.com/companies/att-microwave-tower-jingo-station.html




                        • rjfrank1@ymail.com
                          Following the ROW approximately 5-6 miles northeast of the site location suggested for the Quapaw hut, cable route markers can be viewed at (37.000931
                          Message 12 of 14 , Nov 16, 2013
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                            Following the ROW approximately 5-6 miles northeast of the site location suggested for the Quapaw hut, cable route markers can be viewed at (37.000931 -94.641086) and (37.011756 -94.627481).  A similiar route marker can be viewed in front of the Narcissa hut location (36.800772 -94.913819).  So I would not rule out this ROW as only associated with a power line ROW even though indicated as such on a USGS map.  Google Street View clearly indicates that no power lines and associated support towers are currently located along the ROW.

                            BTW, no need to place the site names in all capital letters, this is just the way I label site locations on my GE database. Thanks though.  As for naming the site Quapaw vice Joplin K1S refer to my comments in Message #28968.

                            >RJFrank


                            ---In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, <cpe122@...> wrote:

                            Thanks!  The new additions are in capital letters as in your e-mail.  I've also cleaned up and corrected some of the other lat & lon's.


                            In this drawing:

                            - red/orange/yellow are all located with a high degree of confidence and/or confirmation,

                            - brown is destroyed,

                            - pink are guesses and estimations,

                            - green is the Vinta VF RS (no K repeaters).


                            http://www.gpsvisualizer.com/display/1383588569-10184-70.16.73.11.html


                            I favor your selection of the Arma location for Fort Scott KS, and I had previously picked the same location in Peroira Twp for Joplin K1S (you called Quapaw).  A review of USGS maps shows that as a power line ROW.  I have made another suggestion for Peroira-Joplin K1S.


                            BTW the square buildings s/b about 30' corner to corner (I think the deminsions might be in one of the BSTJs), and the lots were often 100' square (thus around 1/4 acre).


                            Oklahoma City anyone?


                            /cpe






                            ---In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, <coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                            The updated GPS Visualizer route map being used for the Northern Illinois K-Hut discussion thread (Message #28887) also shows the K-Carrier Route between Joplin-Kansas City.  I have been able to locate several of the sites missing from that particular route with exception of the Martin City K site location.

                            ARMA K: 37 30 48.19 N, 94 41 9.82 W
                            Note:  I believe that K auxiliary repeater site was located here vice as depicted on the map based on the building/land parcel dimensions.  The available historical imagery is inconclusive but the building/land parcel dimensions are more in line with auxiliary repeaters sites further north towards Kansas City. Compare this site with the Hammond K/Louisburg K site locations. The Arma K site location is best viewed (or interpreted) using the Google Earth imagery dated from 9/1991.  The facility building appears to have been demolished sometime prior to 2/2012.

                            FORT SCOTT (VF/K): 37 44 14.43 N, 94 42 14.71 W

                            HAMMOND K: 37 57 1.31 N, 94 40 40.37 W

                            PLEASANTON K: 38 10 5.56 N, 94 40 40.67 W

                            LOUISBURG K: 38 38 58.73 N, 94 37 50.17 W
                            Note: The Louisburg K site location is best viewed (or interpreted) using the Google Earth imagery dated from 1991/1996.  The facility building appears to have been demolished sometime prior to 2/2002.


                            In respect to the K-Carrier route between Joplin-Tulsa, I sorted through the various discussion threads concerning the route and believe I have located the remaining auxiliary repeater site locations not previously posted.

                            CATOOSA K: 36 13 11.86 N, 95 45 34.96 W

                            NARCISSA K: 36 48 2.78 N, 94 54 49.75 W

                            QUAPAW K:  I believe that site was located at (36 57 11.17 N, 94 42 16.69 W) based on historical imagery and the cable ROW passing through the site location.  Unfortunately, the building structure is only seen on poor resolution Google Earth imagery dated from 3/23/1995 and then appears to have been demolished prior to 2/13/2002.

                            >RJFrank
                          • cpe122
                            ... I saw those. They definitely look right. Nice find. ... I see that now that you mention it. ... Okay. ... North of Narcissa there isn t, but south of
                            Message 13 of 14 , Nov 22, 2013
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                              > Following the ROW approximately 5-6 miles northeast of the site location
                              suggested for the Quapaw hut, > cable route markers can be viewed at (37.000931 -94.641086) and (37.011756 -94.627481). 

                              I saw those.  They definitely look right.  Nice find.

                              > A similiar route
                              marker can be viewed in front of the Narcissa hut location (36.800772 -94.913819). 

                              I see that now that you mention it.

                              > So I would not rule out this ROW as only associated with a
                              power line ROW even though indicated as such on a USGS map. 

                              Okay.

                              > Google
                              Street View clearly indicates that no power lines and associated support towers are currently located along the ROW.

                              North of Narcissa there isn't, but south of Narcissa they are clearly visible (see 36.72290,-94.90600).

                              This leads me to assume one of a couple things:
                              1. The high tension line got dismantled in the north toward Quapaw (the basis for my previous stance on this),
                              2. The USGS maps are wrong (again),
                              3. The power lines were building along the old cable ROW ((after abandonedment), this is the only scenario that would seem to explain a ROW that has markers in it at one end, and power lines at the other).

                              Something is not what it appears here.  Possibly a couple things.  The truth probably lies in between.

                              > BTW, no need to
                              place the site names in all capital letters, this is just the way I label site locations on my GE database. Thanks though. 

                              I cut and pasted.  Maybe next time in there I'll normalize those if I don't forget.

                              > As for naming
                              the site Quapaw vice Joplin K1S refer to my comments in Message #28968.

                              I think I understand this to say is that 'Quapaw' comes directly from the 1979 map, correct?


                              /cpe






                              ---In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, <rjfrank1@...> wrote:

                              Following the ROW approximately 5-6 miles northeast of the site location suggested for the Quapaw hut, cable route markers can be viewed at (37.000931 -94.641086) and (37.011756 -94.627481).  A similiar route marker can be viewed in front of the Narcissa hut location (36.800772 -94.913819).  So I would not rule out this ROW as only associated with a power line ROW even though indicated as such on a USGS map.  Google Street View clearly indicates that no power lines and associated support towers are currently located along the ROW.

                              BTW, no need to place the site names in all capital letters, this is just the way I label site locations on my GE database. Thanks though.  As for naming the site Quapaw vice Joplin K1S refer to my comments in Message #28968.

                              >RJFrank


                              ---In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, <cpe122@...> wrote:

                              Thanks!  The new additions are in capital letters as in your e-mail.  I've also cleaned up and corrected some of the other lat & lon's.


                              In this drawing:

                              - red/orange/yellow are all located with a high degree of confidence and/or confirmation,

                              - brown is destroyed,

                              - pink are guesses and estimations,

                              - green is the Vinta VF RS (no K repeaters).


                              http://www.gpsvisualizer.com/display/1383588569-10184-70.16.73.11.html


                              I favor your selection of the Arma location for Fort Scott KS, and I had previously picked the same location in Peroira Twp for Joplin K1S (you called Quapaw).  A review of USGS maps shows that as a power line ROW.  I have made another suggestion for Peroira-Joplin K1S.


                              BTW the square buildings s/b about 30' corner to corner (I think the deminsions might be in one of the BSTJs), and the lots were often 100' square (thus around 1/4 acre).


                              Oklahoma City anyone?


                              /cpe






                              ---In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, <coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                              The updated GPS Visualizer route map being used for the Northern Illinois K-Hut discussion thread (Message #28887) also shows the K-Carrier Route between Joplin-Kansas City.  I have been able to locate several of the sites missing from that particular route with exception of the Martin City K site location.

                              ARMA K: 37 30 48.19 N, 94 41 9.82 W
                              Note:  I believe that K auxiliary repeater site was located here vice as depicted on the map based on the building/land parcel dimensions.  The available historical imagery is inconclusive but the building/land parcel dimensions are more in line with auxiliary repeaters sites further north towards Kansas City. Compare this site with the Hammond K/Louisburg K site locations. The Arma K site location is best viewed (or interpreted) using the Google Earth imagery dated from 9/1991.  The facility building appears to have been demolished sometime prior to 2/2012.

                              FORT SCOTT (VF/K): 37 44 14.43 N, 94 42 14.71 W

                              HAMMOND K: 37 57 1.31 N, 94 40 40.37 W

                              PLEASANTON K: 38 10 5.56 N, 94 40 40.67 W

                              LOUISBURG K: 38 38 58.73 N, 94 37 50.17 W
                              Note: The Louisburg K site location is best viewed (or interpreted) using the Google Earth imagery dated from 1991/1996.  The facility building appears to have been demolished sometime prior to 2/2002.


                              In respect to the K-Carrier route between Joplin-Tulsa, I sorted through the various discussion threads concerning the route and believe I have located the remaining auxiliary repeater site locations not previously posted.

                              CATOOSA K: 36 13 11.86 N, 95 45 34.96 W

                              NARCISSA K: 36 48 2.78 N, 94 54 49.75 W

                              QUAPAW K:  I believe that site was located at (36 57 11.17 N, 94 42 16.69 W) based on historical imagery and the cable ROW passing through the site location.  Unfortunately, the building structure is only seen on poor resolution Google Earth imagery dated from 3/23/1995 and then appears to have been demolished prior to 2/13/2002.

                              >RJFrank
                            • El Bizarro
                              I used to live just north of what is Now Refered to as Cameron Tower (American Towers) just to the West of Parsons KS.. I think this One Used as a Relay
                              Message 14 of 14 , Nov 26, 2013
                              • 0 Attachment
                                I used to live just north of what is Now Refered to as Cameron Tower (American Towers) just to the West of Parsons KS..

                                I think this One Used as a Relay between Tyro KS and Walnut KS  Fort Scott...

                                Tyro : 37.019918,-95.821657
                                Cameron : 37.292957,-95.412457
                                Walnut :
                                37.645126,-95.087518

                                Rob..


                                On Friday, November 22, 2013 6:23 PM, "cpe122@..." <cpe122@...> wrote:
                                 

                                > Following the ROW approximately 5-6 miles northeast of the site location
                                suggested for the Quapaw hut, > cable route markers can be viewed at (37.000931 -94.641086) and (37.011756 -94.627481). 

                                I saw those.  They definitely look right.  Nice find.

                                > A similiar route marker can be viewed in front of the Narcissa hut location (36.800772 -94.913819). 

                                I see that now that you mention it.

                                > So I would not rule out this ROW as only associated with a power line ROW even though indicated as such on a USGS map. 

                                Okay.

                                > Google Street View clearly indicates that no power lines and associated support towers are currently located along the ROW.

                                North of Narcissa there isn't, but south of Narcissa they are clearly visible (see 36.72290,-94.90600).

                                This leads me to assume one of a couple things:
                                1. The high tension line got dismantled in the north toward Quapaw (the basis for my previous stance on this),
                                2. The USGS maps are wrong (again),
                                3. The power lines were building along the old cable ROW ((after abandonedment), this is the only scenario that would seem to explain a ROW that has markers in it at one end, and power lines at the other).

                                Something is not what it appears here.  Possibly a couple things.  The truth probably lies in between.

                                > BTW, no need to place the site names in all capital letters, this is just the way I label site locations on my GE database. Thanks though. 

                                I cut and pasted.  Maybe next time in there I'll normalize those if I don't forget.

                                > As for naming the site Quapaw vice Joplin K1S refer to my comments in Message #28968.

                                I think I understand this to say is that 'Quapaw' comes directly from the 1979 map, correct?


                                /cpe





                                ---In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, <rjfrank1@...> wrote:

                                Following the ROW approximately 5-6 miles northeast of the site location suggested for the Quapaw hut, cable route markers can be viewed at (37.000931 -94.641086) and (37.011756 -94.627481).  A similiar route marker can be viewed in front of the Narcissa hut location (36.800772 -94.913819).  So I would not rule out this ROW as only associated with a power line ROW even though indicated as such on a USGS map.  Google Street View clearly indicates that no power lines and associated support towers are currently located along the ROW.

                                BTW, no need to place the site names in all capital letters, this is just the way I label site locations on my GE database. Thanks though.  As for naming the site Quapaw vice Joplin K1S refer to my comments in Message #28968.

                                >RJFrank


                                ---In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, <cpe122@...> wrote:

                                Thanks!  The new additions are in capital letters as in your e-mail.  I've also cleaned up and corrected some of the other lat & lon's.

                                In this drawing:
                                - red/orange/yellow are all located with a high degree of confidence and/or confirmation,
                                - brown is destroyed,
                                - pink are guesses and estimations,
                                - green is the Vinta VF RS (no K repeaters).

                                http://www.gpsvisualizer.com/display/1383588569-10184-70.16.73.11.html

                                I favor your selection of the Arma location for Fort Scott KS, and I had previously picked the same location in Peroira Twp for Joplin K1S (you called Quapaw).  A review of USGS maps shows that as a power line ROW.  I have made another suggestion for Peroira-Joplin K1S.

                                BTW the square buildings s/b about 30' corner to corner (I think the deminsions might be in one of the BSTJs), and the lots were often 100' square (thus around 1/4 acre).

                                Oklahoma City anyone?

                                /cpe





                                ---In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, <coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                                The updated GPS Visualizer route map being used for the Northern Illinois K-Hut discussion thread (Message #28887) also shows the K-Carrier Route between Joplin-Kansas City.  I have been able to locate several of the sites missing from that particular route with exception of the Martin City K site location.

                                ARMA K: 37 30 48.19 N, 94 41 9.82 W
                                Note:  I believe that K auxiliary repeater site was located here vice as depicted on the map based on the building/land parcel dimensions.  The available historical imagery is inconclusive but the building/land parcel dimensions are more in line with auxiliary repeaters sites further north towards Kansas City. Compare this site with the Hammond K/Louisburg K site locations. The Arma K site location is best viewed (or interpreted) using the Google Earth imagery dated from 9/1991.  The facility building appears to have been demolished sometime prior to 2/2012.

                                FORT SCOTT (VF/K): 37 44 14.43 N, 94 42 14.71 W

                                HAMMOND K: 37 57 1.31 N, 94 40 40.37 W

                                PLEASANTON K: 38 10 5.56 N, 94 40 40.67 W

                                LOUISBURG K: 38 38 58.73 N, 94 37 50.17 W
                                Note: The Louisburg K site location is best viewed (or interpreted) using the Google Earth imagery dated from 1991/1996.  The facility building appears to have been demolished sometime prior to 2/2002.


                                In respect to the K-Carrier route between Joplin-Tulsa, I sorted through the various discussion threads concerning the route and believe I have located the remaining auxiliary repeater site locations not previously posted.

                                CATOOSA K: 36 13 11.86 N, 95 45 34.96 W

                                NARCISSA K: 36 48 2.78 N, 94 54 49.75 W

                                QUAPAW K:  I believe that site was located at (36 57 11.17 N, 94 42 16.69 W) based on historical imagery and the cable ROW passing through the site location.  Unfortunately, the building structure is only seen on poor resolution Google Earth imagery dated from 3/23/1995 and then appears to have been demolished prior to 2/13/2002.

                                >RJFrank


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