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Cleveland - Toledo K Carrier

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  • David
    With major leads from cpe122, we chased K Carrier huts today. The first was at 47375 Cooper Foster Park Road - Amherst, OH 44001. This was K2W.
    Message 1 of 13 , Oct 30, 2013
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      With major leads from cpe122, we chased K Carrier huts today. The first was
      at 47375 Cooper Foster Park Road - Amherst, OH 44001. This was K2W.

      <http://www.loraincountyauditor.com/auditormap/services/ags_ParcelReportPdf4/output/ParcelReportPdf_06c773bef1e84140ab876990e91a864f.pdf>

      Parcel: 05-00-019-000-002

      The new owner is an insurance agent. In 1988, he personally converted the
      building to offices, including a tiny upstairs. The next one west, K3W, had
      a fire and lost its roof; it's now a farmers market. He went & got some
      bricks from it to patch over the vent openings, etc in K2W.




      Then we went to Center Ridge near Bradley (41.24213, -81.95638) and looked
      at a house that at least on Streetview, looked possible as K1W. It was a
      false hope; the house is block, not brick, and has a basement. A cruise up
      & down the street go us nowhere.

      We hope to look through tax/deed records tomorrow & see if we find any leads.
    • David
      ... Went down with a title examiner friend and it was a piece of cake. He pulled the tax maps, we looked along Center Ridge for a few miles, page by page,
      Message 2 of 13 , Oct 31, 2013
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        > We hope to look through tax/deed records tomorrow & see if we find any
        > leads {to K1W}


        Went down with a title examiner friend and it was a piece of cake.

        He pulled the tax maps, we looked along Center Ridge for a few miles, page
        by page, checking the names.

        On the 6th page, I spotted an outlot the perfect size. Bingo: Ohio Tel &
        Telegraph bought it on 10May1941, and sold it off on17Dec1974. This matches
        what the K2W owner thought about his building.

        It's #217-11-001, Book 5231, 160. I have the deed & would like to post but
        Yahoo....grrr

        We have found imagery of the K1W building on Historic Aerials. It was
        removed between their 1970 & 2000 images.

        <http://www.historicaerials.com/aerials.php?scale=0.5249999999999991&lon=-81.94315684000004&lat=41.43353180024045&year=1970>

        Alas, the lot is now occupied by a medical arts building.

        We also found multiple OT&T deeds in the area. They were dated 1924 & all
        for pole easements, through the fields along Bradley Rd. So was there VF
        cable there before the K?
      • ozob99
        Most K routes between major cities were originally VF cables from the 1920 s & 30 s with loaded pairs; some or most were unloaded & converted to K pairs in
        Message 3 of 13 , Oct 31, 2013
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           Most K routes between major cities were originally VF cables from the 1920's & 30's with loaded pairs; some or most were unloaded & converted to  K pairs in the late 1930's; many sidelegs/branches were built as K routes, e.g Richmond- Norfolk; Richmond- Lynchburg-Roanoke.


          Same for open wire routes;C & J carrier added to existing physical circuits.





          ---In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, <coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

          > We hope to look through tax/deed records tomorrow & see if we find any
          > leads {to K1W}


          Went down with a title examiner friend and it was a piece of cake.

          He pulled the tax maps, we looked along Center Ridge for a few miles, page
          by page, checking the names.

          On the 6th page, I spotted an outlot the perfect size. Bingo: Ohio Tel &
          Telegraph bought it on 10May1941, and sold it off on17Dec1974. This matches
          what the K2W owner thought about his building.

          It's #217-11-001, Book 5231, 160. I have the deed & would like to post but
          Yahoo....grrr

          We have found imagery of the K1W building on Historic Aerials. It was
          removed between their 1970 & 2000 images.

          <http://www.historicaerials.com/aerials.php?scale=0.5249999999999991&lon=-81.94315684000004&lat=41.43353180024045&year=1970>

          Alas, the lot is now occupied by a medical arts building.

          We also found multiple OT&T deeds in the area. They were dated 1924 & all
          for pole easements, through the fields along Bradley Rd. So was there VF
          cable there before the K?
        • David
          ... I was interested in the fact that it was built in 1941. I thought it would have been rather outdated by that time, and supplanted by L1. I guess progress
          Message 4 of 13 , Oct 31, 2013
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            On 10/31/13 8:16 PM, ozob99@... wrote:

            > Most K routes between major cities were originally VF cables from the
            > 1920's& 30's with loaded pairs; some or most were unloaded& converted
            > to K pairs in the late 1930's;


            I was interested in the fact that it was built in 1941. I thought it would
            have been rather outdated by that time, and supplanted by L1. I guess
            progress moved slower.
          • ozob99
            Right; this 1946 map shows the L1 working(not much) ,& proposed over 5 years: http://calteches.library.caltech.edu/114/1/Thomas.pdf
            Message 5 of 13 , Oct 31, 2013
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               Right; this 1946 map shows the L1 working(not much) ,& proposed over 5 years:


              http://calteches.library.caltech.edu/114/1/Thomas.pdf


              This 1952 map shows L's progress:


              http://long-lines.net/places-routes/maps/US52.html


              Note how extensive K still was(other cables,heavy line)





              ---In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, <coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

              On 10/31/13 8:16 PM, ozob99@... wrote:

              > Most K routes between major cities were originally VF cables from the
              > 1920's& 30's with loaded pairs; some or most were unloaded& converted
              > to K pairs in the late 1930's;


              I was interested in the fact that it was built in 1941. I thought it would
              have been rather outdated by that time, and supplanted by L1. I guess
              progress moved slower.
            • cpe122
              ... [snip] We also found multiple OT&T deeds in the area. They were dated 1924 & all for pole easements, through the fields along Bradley Rd. So was there VF
              Message 6 of 13 , Nov 2, 2013
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                ---In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, <coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                [snip]

                We also found multiple OT&T deeds in the area. They were dated 1924 & all
                for pole easements, through the fields along Bradley Rd. So was there VF
                cable there before the K?

                The Cleveland-Toledo A and B cable(s) were most definitely VF in 1928.  It appears that the B cable was added before the K was installed, but that is not a "fact in evidence".  Repeater Station was Bogart. 

                /cpe


              • cpe122
                J, K and L were just getting going in the late 1930 s when WWII put the brakes to everything not directly in support of the war effort. To be built during the
                Message 7 of 13 , Nov 2, 2013
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                  J, K and L were just getting going in the late 1930's when WWII put the brakes to everything not directly in support of the war effort.  To be built during the war says a lot.  Don't forget J/K/L all came out about the same time.  Being able to the deployed on VF routes gave K a little bit of an edge in terms of implementation time I think.


                  /cpe





                  ---In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, <coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                  On 10/31/13 8:16 PM, ozob99@... wrote:

                  > Most K routes between major cities were originally VF cables from the
                  > 1920's& 30's with loaded pairs; some or most were unloaded& converted
                  > to K pairs in the late 1930's;


                  I was interested in the fact that it was built in 1941. I thought it would
                  have been rather outdated by that time, and supplanted by L1. I guess
                  progress moved slower.
                • rjfrank1@ymail.com
                  Another route map for the L1 Coaxial System (circa 1953) can be found in the BSTJ Issue 4 July 1953.
                  Message 8 of 13 , Nov 2, 2013
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                    Another route map for the L1 Coaxial System (circa 1953) can be found in the BSTJ Issue 4 July 1953.

                    http://www3.alcatel-lucent.com/bstj/vol32-1953/bstj-vol32-issue04.html
                    http://www3.alcatel-lucent.com/bstj/vol32-1953/articles/bstj32-4-781.pdf

                    Refer to Page 782 Figure 1.

                    >RJFrank

                     



                    ---In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, <coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                     Right; this 1946 map shows the L1 working(not much) ,& proposed over 5 years:


                    http://calteches.library.caltech.edu/114/1/Thomas.pdf


                    This 1952 map shows L's progress:


                    http://long-lines.net/places-routes/maps/US52.html


                    Note how extensive K still was(other cables,heavy line)





                    ---In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, <coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                    On 10/31/13 8:16 PM, ozob99@... wrote:

                    > Most K routes between major cities were originally VF cables from the
                    > 1920's& 30's with loaded pairs; some or most were unloaded& converted
                    > to K pairs in the late 1930's;


                    I was interested in the fact that it was built in 1941. I thought it would
                    have been rather outdated by that time, and supplanted by L1. I guess
                    progress moved slower.
                  • cpe122
                    Note what looks like a N carrier hut in the trees at the NE end of the property. David, for whatever reason, note this lines up with (one of) the tick marks
                    Message 9 of 13 , Nov 2, 2013
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                      Note what looks like a N carrier hut in the trees at the NE end of the property.  David, for whatever reason, note this lines up with (one of) the "tick" marks on the map I sent off-list.

                      /cpe


                       



                      ---In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, <coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                      > We hope to look through tax/deed records tomorrow & see if we find any
                      > leads {to K1W}


                      Went down with a title examiner friend and it was a piece of cake.

                      He pulled the tax maps, we looked along Center Ridge for a few miles, page
                      by page, checking the names.

                      On the 6th page, I spotted an outlot the perfect size. Bingo: Ohio Tel &
                      Telegraph bought it on 10May1941, and sold it off on17Dec1974. This matches
                      what the K2W owner thought about his building.

                      It's #217-11-001, Book 5231, 160. I have the deed & would like to post but
                      Yahoo....grrr

                      We have found imagery of the K1W building on Historic Aerials. It was
                      removed between their 1970 & 2000 images.

                      <http://www.historicaerials.com/aerials.php?scale=0.5249999999999991&lon=-81.94315684000004&lat=41.43353180024045&year=1970>

                      Alas, the lot is now occupied by a medical arts building.

                      We also found multiple OT&T deeds in the area. They were dated 1924 & all
                      for pole easements, through the fields along Bradley Rd. So was there VF
                      cable there before the K?
                    • rjfrank1@ymail.com
                      ... I have recently been researching the Cleveland-Toledo K-Carrier route using the updated information provided by David for Cleveland K1W/K2W in order to
                      Message 10 of 13 , Jan 20, 2014
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                        >With major leads from cpe122, we chased K Carrier huts today. The first was
                        >at 47375 Cooper Foster Park Road - Amherst, OH 44001. This was K2W.

                        >The next one west, K3W, had a fire and lost its roof; it's now a farmers market. He went & got some
                        >bricks from it to patch over the vent openings, etc in K2W.

                        ***also***

                        >Re: Ohio K carrier (25358)

                        >West Unity K1E"
                        >13787+/- County Road H,Wauseon,OH,West Unity K1E,41.58814,-84.13039,See Routes of AT&T Co. Map No. 6 (January 1970)
                        >I'd love to have the location of the next one to the east (Toledo KW)...


                        I have recently been researching the Cleveland-Toledo K-Carrier route using the updated information provided by David for Cleveland K1W/K2W in order to attempt to locate the Cleveland K3W site location (using the rather vague "farmers market" clue as a reference/starting point).


                        Cleveland K3W:  41.364772, -82.517208


                        Going through the various discussion threads for this cable route, I did not find mention of the site locations for Toledo K1E, Toledo K3E, and Bogart.  The Toledo K2E location was posted by CPE some time ago (Message 25110).


                        Toledo K1E: 41.575061, -83.270225
                        Toledo K2E: 41.438514, -83.067861
                        Toledo K3E: 41.398361, -82.802061


                        On the Toledo-West Unity K-Carrier route discussion threads concerning Toledo K1W, I was able to able to locate the site location using historical USGS aerial imagery for the area.  Toledo K1W has been creatively renovated into a home residence but retains the original brick structure facade, GE Street View and Bing Birds Eye shows this to great effect.


                        Toledo K1W: 41.604064, -83.826100


                        >RJFrank

                      • David
                        ... Sorry for the imprecise datas. The K2W owner mentioned it in passing; we were headed the other way, to seek K1W, and didn t give it much attention.
                        Message 11 of 13 , Jan 22, 2014
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                          On 1/20/14 1:38 PM, rjfrank1@... wrote:

                          > I have recently been researching the Cleveland-Toledo K-Carrier route
                          > using the updated information provided by David for Cleveland K1W/K2W in
                          > order to attempt to locate the Cleveland K3W site location (using the
                          > rather vague "farmers market" clue as a reference/starting point).



                          Sorry for the imprecise datas. The K2W owner mentioned it in passing; we
                          were headed the other way, to seek K1W, and didn't give it much attention.
                        • cpe122
                          Cleveland K1W was the last to be found on this route; thank you to David and friend. Bogart was an intermediate (VF) Repeater Station on, what I think was, the
                          Message 12 of 13 , Feb 5, 2014
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                            Cleveland K1W was the last to be found on this route; thank you to David and friend.

                            Bogart was an intermediate (VF) Repeater Station on, what I think was, the Cleveland - Toledo "A" cable.  Many of these cable routes of the era were "upgraded" with K carrier service.  Normally they planned K carrier deployments around existing facilities/buildings on the route.  The Cleveland - Toledo A was too long for this, so Bogart was "skipped", in that though the A (and maybe B) cable(s) continued through the building, there were no K carrier *repeaters* there.

                            Taylor and Bogart Rd,Bogart,OH,Bogart Repeater Station (VF),41.39501,-82.65387,BGRTOHR0010<p>See Routes of AT&T Co. Map No. 6 (January 1970)

                            Good find in Toledo K1W.  It's been over a year since I've "been out that way".  Map showing position and distance relative the adjacent stations:
                            http://www.gpsvisualizer.com/display/20140205100822-08427-map.html

                            BTW, West Unity K1W is still missing too.

                            /cpe


                            p.s.
                          • cpe122
                            Well that was easy: 3493 County Road K,Edon (Florence),OH,West Unity K1W,41.57066,-84.75961 http://www.gpsvisualizer.com/display/20140205171429-31833-map.html
                            Message 13 of 13 , Feb 5, 2014
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                              Well that was easy:


                              3493 County Road K,Edon (Florence),OH,West Unity K1W,41.57066,-84.75961


                              http://www.gpsvisualizer.com/display/20140205171429-31833-map.html


                              /cpe



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