Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: [coldwarcomms] Israeli compromise of U.S. telecommunications?

Expand Messages
  • David Lesher
    ... Typical Fox; I find no actual content. Just screens of ads/links... -- A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com & no one will
    Message 1 of 21 , Dec 21, 2001
      Unnamed Administration sources reported that albertjlafrance@... said:
      >
      >
      > A four-part report by Carl Cameron:
      >
      > Part 1: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,40684,00.html
      > Part 2: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,40747,00.html
      > Part 3: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,40824,00.html
      > Part 4: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,40981,00.html

      Typical Fox; I find no actual content. Just screens
      of ads/links...



      --
      A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@...
      & no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
      Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
      is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
    • David Lesher
      ... Try your browser cache. -- A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com & no one will talk to a host that s close........[v].(301)
      Message 2 of 21 , Dec 21, 2001
        Unnamed Administration sources reported that albertjlafrance@... said:
        >
        > Wow - it was there this morning! I'll see if I can find the reports
        > somewhere else.

        Try your browser cache.


        --
        A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@...
        & no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
        Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
        is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
      • albertjlafrance@cs.com
        The following very intriguing items were recently forwarded to me: A four-part report by Carl Cameron: Part 1:
        Message 3 of 21 , Dec 21, 2001
          The following very intriguing items were recently forwarded to me:

          A four-part report by Carl Cameron:

          Part 1: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,40684,00.html
          Part 2: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,40747,00.html
          Part 3: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,40824,00.html
          Part 4: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,40981,00.html

          A more recent story on the same topic:

          http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2001/12/18/224826.shtml

          Albert
        • albertjlafrance@cs.com
          Wow - it was there this morning! I ll see if I can find the reports somewhere else. Albert In a message dated 12/21/2001 10:03:05 PM Eastern Standard Time,
          Message 4 of 21 , Dec 21, 2001
            Wow - it was there this morning! I'll see if I can find the reports
            somewhere else.

            Albert

            In a message dated 12/21/2001 10:03:05 PM Eastern Standard Time,
            wb8foz@... writes:

            > Typical Fox; I find no actual content. Just screens
            > of ads/links...
            >
          • albertjlafrance@cs.com
            Fortunately the other article is still online for the moment (and this time I remembered to save a copy!); it contains pretty much the same information as the
            Message 5 of 21 , Dec 21, 2001
              Fortunately the other article is still online for the moment (and this time I
              remembered to save a copy!); it contains pretty much the same information as
              the Fox reports:

              http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2001/12/18/224826.shtml

              Albert
            • Goldsmith, Tim
              This is the story about which I was soliciting opinions from you guys in the coldwarcomms group a little while back! While the stories are not currently on the
              Message 6 of 21 , Dec 31, 2001
                This is the story about which I was soliciting opinions from you guys in the
                coldwarcomms group a little while back!

                While the stories are not currently on the foxnews.com website, you can read
                the full reports and some analysis at John Young's mighty Cryptome at
                http://cryptome.org/fox-il-spy.htm

                John Young also linked to some non classified documents cited in Carl's
                reports.

                It is a pretty cool story and from the rumblings we have received, law
                enforcement officials are indeed concerned about these (potential?)
                compromises.

                Carl Cameron and myself would be interested in your technical assessments of
                the details we have received so far.

                Thanks!
                Tim Goldsmith

                ---------------------------------------
                Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 21:36:35 EST
                From: albertjlafrance@...
                Subject:

                The following very intriguing items were recently forwarded to me:

                A four-part report by Carl Cameron:

                Part 1: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,40684,00.html
                Part 2: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,40747,00.html
                Part 3: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,40824,00.html
                Part 4: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,40981,00.html

                A more recent story on the same topic:

                http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2001/12/18/224826.shtml

                Albert


                [This message contained attachments]



                ________________________________________________________________________
                ________________________________________________________________________
              • David Lesher
                ... Every CI lecture points out: There are NO friendly foreign intelligence agencies; just temporarily convenient ones. -- A host is a host from coast to
                Message 7 of 21 , Dec 31, 2001
                  Unnamed Administration sources reported that Goldsmith, Tim said:
                  >
                  > Carl Cameron and myself would be interested in your technical assessments of
                  > the details we have received so far.

                  Every CI lecture points out:

                  There are NO friendly foreign intelligence agencies;
                  just temporarily convenient ones.



                  --
                  A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@...
                  & no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
                  Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
                  is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
                • albertjlafrance@cs.com
                  Ah yes, now I remember. Looking in the list archives, I see our first discussion of the subject was in May 2000. For those who joined since then or want to
                  Message 8 of 21 , Dec 31, 2001
                    Ah yes, now I remember. Looking in the list archives, I see our first
                    discussion of the subject was in May 2000. For those who joined since then
                    or want to refresh their memories, Tim's original message is at:

                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/coldwarcomms/message/879

                    The Insight Magaine article is still online, but the URL is different:

                    http://www.insightmag.com/main.cfm/include/detail/storyid/125356.html

                    Albert

                    In a message dated 12/31/2001 1:38:14 PM Eastern Standard Time,
                    tim.goldsmith@... writes:

                    > This is the story about which I was soliciting opinions from you guys in the
                    > coldwarcomms group a little while back!
                    >
                    > While the stories are not currently on the foxnews.com website, you can
                    read
                    > the full reports and some analysis at John Young's mighty Cryptome at
                    > http://cryptome.org/fox-il-spy.htm
                    >
                    > John Young also linked to some non classified documents cited in Carl's
                    > reports.
                    >
                    > It is a pretty cool story and from the rumblings we have received, law
                    > enforcement officials are indeed concerned about these (potential?)
                    > compromises.
                    >
                    > Carl Cameron and myself would be interested in your technical assessments
                    of
                    > the details we have received so far.
                    >
                    > Thanks!
                    > Tim Goldsmith
                  • Albert LaFrance
                    A bit of information supporting the Newsmax article ( http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2001/12/18/224826.shtml ): the Dec. 10 issue of Newsweek
                    Message 9 of 21 , Jan 9, 2002
                      A bit of information supporting the Newsmax article (
                      http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2001/12/18/224826.shtml ): the Dec.
                      10 issue of Newsweek magazine reported (box on p. 39) that "At least 60
                      Israelis have been jailed nationwide...". The story doesn't state the
                      grounds for holding them, but cites a group of young Israelis sharing an
                      apartment in Ohio who were arrested as suspects "of special interest to the
                      government", noting that the phrase is frequently used in reference to
                      terrorists. The Ohio detainees have all been released.

                      Albert
                    • Albert LaFrance
                      Looking at the original article on this topic: http://www.insightmag.com/main.cfm/include/detail/storyid/125356.html and the recent articles, it appears that
                      Message 10 of 21 , Jan 31, 2002
                        Looking at the original article on this topic:

                        http://www.insightmag.com/main.cfm/include/detail/storyid/125356.html

                        and the recent articles, it appears that the major detail added is that the
                        alleged interception ot conversations was accomplished through unauthorized
                        activation of the remote-wiretap technology provided for American
                        law-enforcement use.

                        Although I'm far from being convinced that the allegations are true, the
                        latest assertions do begin to fill in a big gap in the original claims. The
                        first report clearly stated that actual *conversations* were being
                        monitored, but the technical details on how this might be done referred only
                        call-accounting and billing data. It seemed to me that the article confused
                        access to that data with access to the actual "talking path" through the
                        switching system.

                        I can much more readily believe that a foreign intelligence service obtained
                        call-accounting/billing data than I can believe that real-time access to
                        conversations was achieved. But compromise of the CALEA remote-wiretap
                        capability would certainly make the latter possibility more conceivable.

                        I mentioned these reports to a couple of acquaintances who have COMSEC
                        experience. They had heard the allegations but were very skeptical. They
                        noted that rumors of "back doors" in Israeli telecom products have been
                        around for a while but no one has ever proven their existence or been able
                        to provide details of the alleged compromises.

                        Albert
                      • Goldsmith, Tim
                        We are slowly gaining some technical information on how this works (i.e. voice vs. call data) and to what extent the US government is concerned with the
                        Message 11 of 21 , Feb 5, 2002
                          We are slowly gaining some technical information on how this works (i.e.
                          voice vs. call data) and to what extent the US government is concerned with
                          the vulnerabilities. We have learned that in December, in direct response to
                          the Fox News stories, FBI and DEA personnel expressed concern over
                          vulnerabilities of their T2S2(Transcription/Translation Support) system and
                          planned to include it in a briefing for DEA Administrator Asa Hutchinson on
                          December 19th that was to also include the "Israeli art students" and
                          Comverse.

                          The Federation of American Scientists website had this description from an
                          Army document of the T2S2 system.
                          http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/army/docs/astmp/c7/P7D4.htm
                          One of the programs under the Army's purview is the
                          Transcription/Translation Support System (T2S2). The T2S2 is an audio
                          collection and recording system which supports Drug Enforcement
                          Administration (DEA) Title III wire tap operations. T2S2 is a key backbone
                          communications system that accelerates the prosecution of drug traffickers.
                          The system provides near real-time collection, recording, and forwarding of
                          digitized voice intercepts from Title III Wiretap Collection and Recording
                          Sites located in New York City, Miami, Houston, and Los Angeles. The voice
                          intercepts are forwarded to a Remote Processing Transcription/Translation
                          Support Center located in Draper, UT, via dedicated long haul communications
                          carriers....

                          Pretty wild stuff. Anyone have insight into the nature of these "dedicated
                          long haul communications carriers"?

                          Tim Goldsmith

                          Message: 1
                          Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 12:39:17 -0500
                          From: "Albert LaFrance" <albertjlafrance@...>
                          Subject: RE: Israeli compromise of U.S. telecommunications?

                          Looking at the original article on this topic:

                          http://www.insightmag.com/main.cfm/include/detail/storyid/125356.html

                          and the recent articles, it appears that the major detail added is that the
                          alleged interception ot conversations was accomplished through unauthorized
                          activation of the remote-wiretap technology provided for American
                          law-enforcement use.

                          Although I'm far from being convinced that the allegations are true, the
                          latest assertions do begin to fill in a big gap in the original claims. The
                          first report clearly stated that actual *conversations* were being
                          monitored, but the technical details on how this might be done referred only
                          call-accounting and billing data. It seemed to me that the article confused
                          access to that data with access to the actual "talking path" through the
                          switching system.

                          I can much more readily believe that a foreign intelligence service obtained
                          call-accounting/billing data than I can believe that real-time access to
                          conversations was achieved. But compromise of the CALEA remote-wiretap
                          capability would certainly make the latter possibility more conceivable.

                          I mentioned these reports to a couple of acquaintances who have COMSEC
                          experience. They had heard the allegations but were very skeptical. They
                          noted that rumors of "back doors" in Israeli telecom products have been
                          around for a while but no one has ever proven their existence or been able
                          to provide details of the alleged compromises.

                          Albert
                        • Albert LaFrance
                          Tim, Very interesting find! Regarding the dedicated...carriers , if we think of carrier a communications company like AT&T or WorldCom, then my hunch is
                          Message 12 of 21 , Feb 5, 2002
                            Tim,

                            Very interesting find!

                            Regarding the "dedicated...carriers", if we think of "carrier" a
                            communications company like AT&T or WorldCom, then my hunch is that it's a
                            mistake - that they really meant to say dedicated lines or circuits. I
                            can't imagine a need for a separate physical network to carry the
                            intercepts, since the material could readily be encrypted and sent over
                            leased lines.

                            The questions which most intrigue me are: where do the actual interceptions
                            take place (every local central office, as would seem necessary if every
                            lines is to be accessible, or just long-distance carrier facilities)? How
                            is the intercepted traffic transmitted to the four Collection and Recording
                            Sites? From where are the remote wiretaps initiated?

                            Albert

                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: "Goldsmith, Tim" <tim.goldsmith@...>
                            To: <coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 6:05 PM
                            Subject: [coldwarcomms] RE: Israeli compromise of U.S. telecommunications?


                            <SNIP)>
                            > The Federation of American Scientists website had this description from an
                            > Army document of the T2S2 system.
                            > http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/army/docs/astmp/c7/P7D4.htm
                            > One of the programs under the Army's purview is the
                            > Transcription/Translation Support System (T2S2).
                            <SNIP>
                            > Pretty wild stuff. Anyone have insight into the nature of these "dedicated
                            > long haul communications carriers"?
                          • Albert LaFrance
                            Here s a possible lead... http://www.fbodaily.com/cbd/archive/2001/09(September)/13-Sep-2001/70sol004. htm Albert
                            Message 13 of 21 , Feb 5, 2002
                              Here's a possible lead...

                              http://www.fbodaily.com/cbd/archive/2001/09(September)/13-Sep-2001/70sol004.
                              htm

                              Albert
                            • Daryl R. Gibson
                              Here are the URLs for a couple of MSWord documents pertaining to the Utah National Guard translation installation up the road from me in Draper, courtesy of
                              Message 14 of 21 , Feb 5, 2002
                                Here are the URLs for a couple of MSWord documents
                                pertaining to the Utah National Guard translation installation
                                up the road from me in Draper, courtesy of Google:

                                http://www.ut.ngb.army.mil/ig/TextFiles/UTNG_20-10.doc
                                http://www.ut.ngb.army.mil/300mi/Newsletters/Jul%202001%20Newsletter.doc
                              • Albert LaFrance
                                JSI Telecom makes products to support CALEA interception - there s quite a bit of information at: http://www.jsitelecom.com/ Albert
                                Message 15 of 21 , Feb 5, 2002
                                  JSI Telecom makes products to support CALEA interception - there's quite a
                                  bit of information at:

                                  http://www.jsitelecom.com/

                                  Albert
                                • Jim Burks
                                  ... quite a ... I guess I don t get out much. I didn t realize there was that much law enforcement wiretapping going on, that a company would exist solely to
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Feb 6, 2002
                                    > JSI Telecom makes products to support CALEA interception - there's
                                    quite a
                                    > bit of information at:

                                    > http://www.jsitelecom.com/

                                    I guess I don't get out much.

                                    I didn't realize there was that much law enforcement wiretapping going
                                    on, that a company would exist solely to serve that market - except,
                                    perhaps, for NSA.

                                    Jim Burks
                                  • Albert LaFrance
                                    Some random info... (1) TV alert for DC-area viewers: I just caught the end of a teaser for tonight s WJLA (Ch. 7, ABC) local news. Reporter Dale Solly (sp?)
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Mar 6, 2002
                                      Some random info...

                                      (1) TV alert for DC-area viewers: I just caught the end of a teaser for
                                      tonight's WJLA (Ch. 7, ABC) local news. Reporter Dale Solly (sp?) was
                                      saying something about "Israeli agents" and "...biggest spy case...".

                                      (2) The FCC's CALEA web page is at:
                                      http://wireless.fcc.gov/csinfo/calea.html

                                      (3) The FBI's CALEA web page is at:
                                      http://www.askcalea.com/

                                      (4) The Jan. 19, 2002 Washington Post (p. A12) listed the numbers and
                                      countries of origin of the people being held by the INS in relation to the
                                      terrorism investigation, as of Jan. 4. The number of Israelis was 20.

                                      Albert

                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: "Goldsmith, Tim" <tim.goldsmith@...>
                                      To: <coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com>
                                      Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 6:05 PM
                                      Subject: [coldwarcomms] RE: Israeli compromise of U.S. telecommunications?


                                      > We are slowly gaining some technical information on how this works (i.e.
                                      > voice vs. call data) and to what extent the US government is concerned
                                      with
                                      > the vulnerabilities. We have learned that in December, in direct response
                                      to
                                      > the Fox News stories, FBI and DEA personnel expressed concern over
                                      > vulnerabilities of their T2S2(Transcription/Translation Support) system
                                      and
                                      > planned to include it in a briefing for DEA Administrator Asa Hutchinson
                                      on
                                      > December 19th that was to also include the "Israeli art students" and
                                      > Comverse.
                                      >
                                      > The Federation of American Scientists website had this description from an
                                      > Army document of the T2S2 system.
                                      > http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/army/docs/astmp/c7/P7D4.htm
                                      > One of the programs under the Army's purview is the
                                      > Transcription/Translation Support System (T2S2). The T2S2 is an audio
                                      > collection and recording system which supports Drug Enforcement
                                      > Administration (DEA) Title III wire tap operations. T2S2 is a key backbone
                                      > communications system that accelerates the prosecution of drug
                                      traffickers.
                                      > The system provides near real-time collection, recording, and forwarding
                                      of
                                      > digitized voice intercepts from Title III Wiretap Collection and Recording
                                      > Sites located in New York City, Miami, Houston, and Los Angeles. The voice
                                      > intercepts are forwarded to a Remote Processing Transcription/Translation
                                      > Support Center located in Draper, UT, via dedicated long haul
                                      communications
                                      > carriers....
                                      >
                                      > Pretty wild stuff. Anyone have insight into the nature of these "dedicated
                                      > long haul communications carriers"?
                                      >
                                      > Tim Goldsmith
                                      >
                                      > Message: 1
                                      > Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 12:39:17 -0500
                                      > From: "Albert LaFrance" <albertjlafrance@...>
                                      > Subject: RE: Israeli compromise of U.S. telecommunications?
                                      >
                                      > Looking at the original article on this topic:
                                      >
                                      > http://www.insightmag.com/main.cfm/include/detail/storyid/125356.html
                                      >
                                      > and the recent articles, it appears that the major detail added is that
                                      the
                                      > alleged interception ot conversations was accomplished through
                                      unauthorized
                                      > activation of the remote-wiretap technology provided for American
                                      > law-enforcement use.
                                      >
                                      > Although I'm far from being convinced that the allegations are true, the
                                      > latest assertions do begin to fill in a big gap in the original claims.
                                      The
                                      > first report clearly stated that actual *conversations* were being
                                      > monitored, but the technical details on how this might be done referred
                                      only
                                      > call-accounting and billing data. It seemed to me that the article
                                      confused
                                      > access to that data with access to the actual "talking path" through the
                                      > switching system.
                                      >
                                      > I can much more readily believe that a foreign intelligence service
                                      obtained
                                      > call-accounting/billing data than I can believe that real-time access to
                                      > conversations was achieved. But compromise of the CALEA remote-wiretap
                                      > capability would certainly make the latter possibility more conceivable.
                                      >
                                      > I mentioned these reports to a couple of acquaintances who have COMSEC
                                      > experience. They had heard the allegations but were very skeptical. They
                                      > noted that rumors of "back doors" in Israeli telecom products have been
                                      > around for a while but no one has ever proven their existence or been able
                                      > to provide details of the alleged compromises.
                                      >
                                      > Albert
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                    • Albert LaFrance
                                      From today s Washington Post, a story titled Reports of Israeli Spy Ring Dismised : http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A45802-2002Mar6.html Albert
                                      Message 18 of 21 , Mar 6, 2002
                                        From today's Washington Post, a story titled "Reports of Israeli Spy Ring
                                        Dismised":

                                        http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A45802-2002Mar6.html

                                        Albert
                                      • Goldsmith, Tim
                                        The Washington Post dismissal of the so called Israeli Art Students story is interesting... Someone has a spin they want to get out. The memo they described
                                        Message 19 of 21 , Mar 6, 2002
                                          The Washington Post dismissal of the so called "Israeli Art Students" story
                                          is interesting...
                                          Someone has a spin they want to get out.
                                          The memo they described is more like a counterintelligence activity report,
                                          in that it is a summary of inquiries and follow ups from dozens of DEA field
                                          offices and other US Government facilities reporting dates and times of
                                          literally hundreds of encounters with the students. Rarely are they ever
                                          arrested, but they were interviewed on many occasions. It appears to my
                                          naive eyes as a serious report that took some time and resources to
                                          assemble. I also saw slides and notes from an FBI/DEA briefing on the IAS
                                          investigation. As the Post asserts, it may all be written by the same guy
                                          who leaked it. I don't know the origins of the copy I saw.

                                          There is only one line in the document that describes it as a possible
                                          counter intelligence activity. Certainly an alternate hypothesis is hard to
                                          come up with given the patterns of behavior. But the post article seeks to
                                          dissuade people from the espionage hypothesis.
                                          We have learned that it has been linked by some people in the government to
                                          the AMDOCS story and as I understand it, one of the "students" was bailed
                                          out of jail by someone who works for AMDOCS. Not proof of any relation
                                          between the two stories but it is intriguing to say the least!

                                          Whether it is espionage or something more byzantine it is hard to say.

                                          Tim

                                          Message: 7
                                          Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 08:59:41 -0500
                                          From: "Albert LaFrance" <albertjlafrance@...>
                                          Subject: Re: RE: Israeli compromise of U.S. telecommunications?

                                          From today's Washington Post, a story titled "Reports of Israeli Spy Ring
                                          Dismised":

                                          http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A45802-2002Mar6.html

                                          Albert










                                          ________________________________________________________________________
                                          ________________________________________________________________________



                                          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                        • Goldsmith, Tim
                                          The Washington Post dismissal of the so called Israeli Art Students story is interesting... Someone has a spin they want to get out. The memo they described
                                          Message 20 of 21 , Mar 6, 2002
                                            The Washington Post dismissal of the so called "Israeli Art Students" story
                                            is interesting...
                                            Someone has a spin they want to get out.
                                            The memo they described is more like a counterintelligence activity report,
                                            in that it is a summary of inquiries and follow ups from dozens of DEA field
                                            offices and other US Government facilities reporting dates and times of
                                            literally hundreds of encounters with the students. Rarely are they ever
                                            arrested, but they were interviewed on many occasions. It appears to my
                                            naive eyes as a serious report that took some time and resources to
                                            assemble. I also saw slides and notes from an FBI/DEA briefing on the IAS
                                            investigation. As the Post asserts, it may all be written by the same guy
                                            who leaked it. I don't know the origins of the copy I saw.

                                            There is only one line in the document that describes it as a possible
                                            counter intelligence activity. Certainly an alternate hypothesis is hard to
                                            come up with given the patterns of behavior. But the post article seeks to
                                            dissuade people from the espionage hypothesis.
                                            We have learned that it has been linked by some people in the government to
                                            the AMDOCS story and as I understand it, one of the "students" was bailed
                                            out of jail by someone who works for AMDOCS. Not proof of any relation
                                            between the two stories but it is intriguing to say the least!

                                            Whether it is espionage or something more byzantine it is hard to say.

                                            Tim

                                            Message: 7
                                            Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 08:59:41 -0500
                                            From: "Albert LaFrance" <albertjlafrance@...>
                                            Subject: Re: RE: Israeli compromise of U.S. telecommunications?

                                            From today's Washington Post, a story titled "Reports of Israeli Spy Ring
                                            Dismised":

                                            http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A45802-2002Mar6.html

                                            Albert










                                            ________________________________________________________________________
                                            ________________________________________________________________________



                                            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                          • David Lesher
                                            ... Well, YMMV. It so happens I ve read the DEA report in question. It fell off the truck into the hands of a journalist friend who wrote about it. He asked
                                            Message 21 of 21 , Mar 6, 2002
                                              Unnamed Administration sources reported that Goldsmith, Tim said:
                                              >
                                              > The Washington Post dismissal of the so called "Israeli Art Students" story
                                              > is interesting...
                                              > Someone has a spin they want to get out.

                                              Well, YMMV.

                                              It so happens I've read the DEA report in question. It 'fell off
                                              the truck' into the hands of a journalist friend who wrote about
                                              it. He asked me about it a week ago Thursday?Friday.

                                              I read it and also asked a friend, someone retired from a
                                              midlevel military CI investigator position. While there are lots
                                              if interesting tidbits; there were several factors that convinced
                                              both of us that it was not a IDFI operation. First was the fact
                                              that there was such a lousy job on the legends; second was another
                                              factor I'll withhold.

                                              But it's true it's a major scam, and highly profitable. When you
                                              buy the equivalent of velvet Elvis's for $3 each and peddle them
                                              for $50-100; that's good margins.

                                              BTW, the best part of the report was this. Each field office had
                                              been asked to report any such activity. 90% came back with some
                                              description, some highly detailed. Two or three, ones outside
                                              CONUS, said "not here"..

                                              But one domestic office, clearly not wanting to be left out,
                                              reported snatching up an WM AMCIT with a errr ...colorful
                                              record. He had zippo ties to .il; but dammit, he WAS selling
                                              cheesy art. Book 'em, Danno.

                                              As if to reinforce how common a scam the art deal is; that same
                                              Friday, a blue hair, blue eye'ed Midwestern accent kid showed
                                              up at my office, and guess what he was selling. Maybe I should
                                              have interrogated him in Hebrew, but mine is not even at the
                                              "hello" level...


                                              --
                                              A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@...
                                              & no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
                                              Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
                                              is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
                                            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.