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Branch 1 VA

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  • OZOB99
    Checking a recently aquired CLLI code document, I find that there is at long last a bit of info on Branch 1 VA: Branch 1 shows up as BRNCVA01 with no info
    Message 1 of 17 , Jun 26 2:25 PM
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      Checking a recently aquired CLLI code document, I find that there is at long last a bit of info on Branch 1 VA:

      Branch 1 shows up as BRNCVA01 with no info other than AT&T ownership.I have posted before the only CLLI type code I had seen on a document "BR01 VA, this seems to be either a typo or engineering type abbreviation.

      Then I found a second listing: "Special Location", "Branch 1@Rt 601", zip 22075, Bell Atlantic. Rt 601 goes right through
      Mt Weather; however the CLLI for this info is LSBGVA06, and the zip code does'nt exist(Mt Weather is 20135). Bell Atlantic, nee C&P, was there along with AT&T throughout the Cold War years. So despite the wrong zip & CLLI(maybe a valid alias unknown to the group),it's looking like the Branch 1 GEP was at Mt Weather.

      If so, I'm surpised the close scrutiny of researchers has'nt picked up on those hardened monopoles on the ground, although if near buildings/vegetation they would be hard to spot.

      A related item of interest is that Leesburg 5 was initially listed as PCVLVA01(something discussed on the list before), with a notation to see LSBGVA05; The description of LSBGVA05 includes "Purcellville building".

      I'm sure the security folks back in the day would not have allowed the listing above if they had known about it; nor another CLLI description I found on a March AFB listing: "Nightwatch ground station".
    • Ken Bowles
      A 2012 USAF listing of GEPs includes a GEP @ FEMA . . . which, when you check the long/lat, is Mt. Wx. Ken ... [Non-text portions of this message have been
      Message 2 of 17 , Jun 26 8:35 PM
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        A 2012 USAF listing of GEPs includes a GEP @ "FEMA" . . . which, when you
        check the long/lat, is Mt. Wx.

        Ken


        On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 4:25 PM, OZOB99 <ozob99@...> wrote:

        > **
        >
        >
        > Checking a recently aquired CLLI code document, I find that there is at
        > long last a bit of info on Branch 1 VA:
        >
        > Branch 1 shows up as BRNCVA01 with no info other than AT&T ownership.I
        > have posted before the only CLLI type code I had seen on a document "BR01
        > VA, this seems to be either a typo or engineering type abbreviation.
        >
        > Then I found a second listing: "Special Location", "Branch 1@Rt 601", zip
        > 22075, Bell Atlantic. Rt 601 goes right through
        > Mt Weather; however the CLLI for this info is LSBGVA06, and the zip code
        > does'nt exist(Mt Weather is 20135). Bell Atlantic, nee C&P, was there along
        > with AT&T throughout the Cold War years. So despite the wrong zip &
        > CLLI(maybe a valid alias unknown to the group),it's looking like the Branch
        > 1 GEP was at Mt Weather.
        >
        > If so, I'm surpised the close scrutiny of researchers has'nt picked up on
        > those hardened monopoles on the ground, although if near
        > buildings/vegetation they would be hard to spot.
        >
        > A related item of interest is that Leesburg 5 was initially listed as
        > PCVLVA01(something discussed on the list before), with a notation to see
        > LSBGVA05; The description of LSBGVA05 includes "Purcellville building".
        >
        > I'm sure the security folks back in the day would not have allowed the
        > listing above if they had known about it; nor another CLLI description I
        > found on a March AFB listing: "Nightwatch ground station".
        >
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • cpe122
        22075 appears to be Leesburg. http://www.marigoldtech.com/lists/co.php?zipcode=22075 /cpe
        Message 3 of 17 , Jun 30 6:33 PM
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          22075 appears to be Leesburg.

          http://www.marigoldtech.com/lists/co.php?zipcode=22075

          /cpe

          --- In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, "OZOB99" <ozob99@...> wrote:
          >
          > Checking a recently aquired CLLI code document, I find that there is at long last a bit of info on Branch 1 VA:
          >
          > Branch 1 shows up as BRNCVA01 with no info other than AT&T ownership.I have posted before the only CLLI type code I had seen on a document "BR01 VA, this seems to be either a typo or engineering type abbreviation.
          >
          > Then I found a second listing: "Special Location", "Branch 1@Rt 601", zip 22075, Bell Atlantic. Rt 601 goes right through
          > Mt Weather; however the CLLI for this info is LSBGVA06, and the zip code does'nt exist(Mt Weather is 20135). Bell Atlantic, nee C&P, was there along with AT&T throughout the Cold War years. So despite the wrong zip & CLLI(maybe a valid alias unknown to the group),it's looking like the Branch 1 GEP was at Mt Weather.
          >
          > If so, I'm surpised the close scrutiny of researchers has'nt picked up on those hardened monopoles on the ground, although if near buildings/vegetation they would be hard to spot.
          >
          > A related item of interest is that Leesburg 5 was initially listed as PCVLVA01(something discussed on the list before), with a notation to see LSBGVA05; The description of LSBGVA05 includes "Purcellville building".
          >
          > I'm sure the security folks back in the day would not have allowed the listing above if they had known about it; nor another CLLI description I found on a March AFB listing: "Nightwatch ground station".
          >
        • OZOB99
          I went to USPS & searched zip 22075 & says invalid? zip-codes.com says Leesburg Va is 20175-8?
          Message 4 of 17 , Jun 30 6:52 PM
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            I went to USPS & searched zip 22075 & says invalid?

            zip-codes.com says Leesburg Va is 20175-8?





            --- In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, "cpe122" <cpe122@...> wrote:
            >
            > 22075 appears to be Leesburg.
            >
            > http://www.marigoldtech.com/lists/co.php?zipcode=22075
            >
            > /cpe
            >
            > --- In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, "OZOB99" <ozob99@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Checking a recently aquired CLLI code document, I find that there is at long last a bit of info on Branch 1 VA:
            > >
            > > Branch 1 shows up as BRNCVA01 with no info other than AT&T ownership.I have posted before the only CLLI type code I had seen on a document "BR01 VA, this seems to be either a typo or engineering type abbreviation.
            > >
            > > Then I found a second listing: "Special Location", "Branch 1@Rt 601", zip 22075, Bell Atlantic. Rt 601 goes right through
            > > Mt Weather; however the CLLI for this info is LSBGVA06, and the zip code does'nt exist(Mt Weather is 20135). Bell Atlantic, nee C&P, was there along with AT&T throughout the Cold War years. So despite the wrong zip & CLLI(maybe a valid alias unknown to the group),it's looking like the Branch 1 GEP was at Mt Weather.
            > >
            > > If so, I'm surpised the close scrutiny of researchers has'nt picked up on those hardened monopoles on the ground, although if near buildings/vegetation they would be hard to spot.
            > >
            > > A related item of interest is that Leesburg 5 was initially listed as PCVLVA01(something discussed on the list before), with a notation to see LSBGVA05; The description of LSBGVA05 includes "Purcellville building".
            > >
            > > I'm sure the security folks back in the day would not have allowed the listing above if they had known about it; nor another CLLI description I found on a March AFB listing: "Nightwatch ground station".
            > >
            >
          • ozob99
            More on related CLLI s: BERRYVILLE BEVLVAQ0010 TOWER 19850 BLUERIDGE MOUNTAIN RD BLUEMONT VIRGINIA 20135 BEVLVAAJ BLUEMONT BLDG 19850
            Message 5 of 17 , Mar 7, 2014
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              More on related CLLI's:

              BERRYVILLE    BEVLVAQ0010  TOWER 19850 BLUERIDGE MOUNTAIN RD BLUEMONT VIRGINIA 20135

                   "                 BEVLVAAJ  BLUEMONT BLDG 19850 BLUERIDGE MOUNTAIN RD @ TOWN 
                                     OF BLUEMONT, VA 20135


              BLUEMONT    BLMTVA02     BLUEMONT 2 VA 22012
                    "                       "    AA     BLUEMONT BLDG 19844 BLUERIDGE MOUNTAIN RD 20135


              Once again the non existent ZIP 22012 shows up.

              Berryville 2 is not in the list but was once a valid CLLI; flip side is I've never seen Bluemont 2 in a LL document.

              Perhaps more sloppy data entry.

              And further down the road another office with close ties, Winchester 2:

               WNCHVA02     LL RTE 50 22638
                 "           FL1   CXR TERM LL 1ST FL BA
                 "          MLL   MTCE FORCE-L L BA
                 "          W10  WINCHESTER #2 PORTABLE
              WNCHVAR0010 WINCHESTER 2 ATT MAIN REP STA 22638  (Rt 50)



            • cpe122
              We ve discussed the cable(s) that emminate from Washington and junction at Winchester No. 1 with what has been referred to as the USL cable (according to 70 s
              Message 6 of 17 , Mar 8, 2014
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                We've discussed the cable(s) that emminate from Washington and junction at Winchester No. 1 with what has been referred to as the USL cable (according to '70's vintage LL maps (6 and 6 Inset)).
                These maps show an "office" named Bluemont between Leesburg and Winchester No. 1.  I have attempted to identify the Bluemont building/location.  Many folks have pointed me to the FEMA facility FKA "High Point".
                What hasn't been clear, was wheter Bluemont as shown on the maps *strictly* terminal (with no through circuits)?  While certainly possible, it would seem that the Bell System would have wanted the flexibility of routing through circuits, even if a cable project may have been federally funded.  They would have wanted to be on prem in the case.
                I think this cable may have been VF and not the N carrier cable documented elsewhere on Albert's site.
                I think this drawing may depict what I have been thinking:
                http://www.coldwar-c4i.net/mt_weather/comms-1955.html
                This drawing seems to suggest that the cables from Winchester and Leesburg come together someplaced labled 'B'something--I'm guessing that's Bluemont--before entering High Point.  I find it curious that a conscious effort was made to show them separate.  While that does not prove that Bluemont was off-premises, it would be consistent with that theory. 
                Could this Bluemont be the Bluemont CO (BLMTVABM now 540-554)?

                /cpe



                ---In coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com, <ozob99@...> wrote :

                More on related CLLI's:

                BERRYVILLE    BEVLVAQ0010  TOWER 19850 BLUERIDGE MOUNTAIN RD BLUEMONT VIRGINIA 20135

                     "                 BEVLVAAJ  BLUEMONT BLDG 19850 BLUERIDGE MOUNTAIN RD @ TOWN 
                                       OF BLUEMONT, VA 20135


                BLUEMONT    BLMTVA02     BLUEMONT 2 VA 22012
                      "                       "    AA     BLUEMONT BLDG 19844 BLUERIDGE MOUNTAIN RD 20135


                Once again the non existent ZIP 22012 shows up.

                Berryville 2 is not in the list but was once a valid CLLI; flip side is I've never seen Bluemont 2 in a LL document.

                Perhaps more sloppy data entry.

                And further down the road another office with close ties, Winchester 2:

                 WNCHVA02     LL RTE 50 22638
                   "           FL1   CXR TERM LL 1ST FL BA
                   "          MLL   MTCE FORCE-L L BA
                   "          W10  WINCHESTER #2 PORTABLE
                WNCHVAR0010 WINCHESTER 2 ATT MAIN REP STA 22638  (Rt 50)



              • ozob99
                Years ago one of the guys(now deceased) that worked on the N systems told me those two cables went directly into the Mt Weather compound, not via any local
                Message 7 of 17 , Mar 8, 2014
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                  Years ago one of the guys(now deceased) that worked on the N systems told me those two cables went directly into the Mt Weather compound, not via any local cable route like from Bluemont CO(most, if not all, of the POTS access at Mt Weather in those days were GX circuits to DC,MD, & VA exchanges via the N cxr & TD-2 channels).

                  I'm not sure the BLMTVABM CO existed in 1955, whats there now is a remote; the CLLI list shows it on Rt 734, presumably in the town; in any case all info so far is anecdotal, or in maps not to scale.
                • ozob99
                  Some afterthoughts on this subject: Any telco cables prior to 1956 going to Mt WX probably would have been a branch from existing C&P interexchange cables in
                  Message 8 of 17 , Mar 10, 2014
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                    Some afterthoughts on this subject:

                     Any telco cables prior to 1956 going to Mt WX  probably would have been a branch from existing C&P interexchange cables in the vicinity; most likely was the cable along Rt 7 from the Washington area, to Leesburg,Purcellville,Bluemont,Winchester 1. This could have been an interim branch from Bluemont or Berryville( the "B" in the sketch possibly) up to Mt Wx; and/or a temporary microwave link is another possibility,(C&P or gov't to ??;I don't think the PEF tower link was built yet).I agree most were probably VF back then,but C&P may have deployed some N CXR on this route by 1955. The later USL cable was N and VF.

                    The Bluemont CO, if it existed then,was a  355 SXS CDO(per old CLLI), so most likely Mt Wx pairs would have bypassed that little switch, & connected to the interexchange cable pairs to Winchester, Leesburg & other locations for dial tone and/or operators( the "LD" on the sketch suggests LD calls via operators there as well as the other LD locations shown)

                    When the USL cable & Winchester 2 were established in 1956, and the WASH 4 TD-2 turned up appx that time, all sensitive traffic would have rerouted on these facilities for diversity & COMSEC; if the original cable was still used after this I'd guess it was for unofficial calls home,etc.

                    The history of Mt Wx's  telco routes in those days may never be known to us as the few involved still living are 78+, and any gov't or telco documents released on this matter are probably decades  away.
                  • albert_lafrance
                    Do you know if the PARIS microwave station had any link to Mt. Wx? It s located a couple of miles to the south. It might have been a joint C&P/Long Lines
                    Message 9 of 17 , Mar 10, 2014
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                      Do you know if the PARIS microwave station had any link to Mt. Wx? It's
                      located a couple of miles to the south. It might have been a joint
                      C&P/Long Lines facility.

                      Albert

                      > Some afterthoughts on this subject:
                      >
                      >
                      > Any telco cables prior to 1956 going to Mt WX probably would have been
                      > a branch from existing C&P interexchange cables in the vicinity; most
                      > likely was the cable along Rt 7 from the Washington area, to
                      > Leesburg,Purcellville,Bluemont,Winchester 1. This could have been an
                      > interim branch from Bluemont or Berryville( the "B" in the sketch
                      > possibly) up to Mt Wx; and/or a temporary microwave link is another
                      > possibility,(C&P or gov't to ??;I don't think the PEF tower link was
                      > built yet).I agree most were probably VF back then,but C&P may have
                      > deployed some N CXR on this route by 1955. The later USL cable was N and
                      > VF.
                      >
                      >
                      > The Bluemont CO, if it existed then,was a 355 SXS CDO(per old CLLI), so
                      > most likely Mt Wx pairs would have bypassed that little switch, &
                      > connected to the interexchange cable pairs to Winchester, Leesburg &
                      > other locations for dial tone and/or operators( the "LD" on the sketch
                      > suggests LD calls via operators there as well as the other LD locations
                      > shown)
                      >
                      >
                      > When the USL cable & Winchester 2 were established in 1956, and the WASH
                      > 4 TD-2 turned up appx that time, all sensitive traffic would have
                      > rerouted on these facilities for diversity & COMSEC; if the original
                      > cable was still used after this I'd guess it was for unofficial calls
                      > home,etc.
                      >
                      >
                      > The history of Mt Wx's telco routes in those days may never be known to
                      > us as the few involved still living are 78+, and any gov't or telco
                      > documents released on this matter are probably decades away.
                      >
                    • ozob99
                      I ve seen a map showing a link from Paris to Mt Wx; Contel or WU, or American Sat,but I think it was 1960 s or 70 s.
                      Message 10 of 17 , Mar 10, 2014
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                        I've seen a map showing a link from Paris to Mt Wx; Contel or WU, or American Sat,but I think it was 1960's or 70's.
                      • ozob99
                        Looking at the map, which is on your webpage,I see the Paris link is Contel/American Sat, but it s not the Paris tower in the village of Paris at US 50 & 17,
                        Message 11 of 17 , Mar 10, 2014
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                          Looking at the map, which is on your webpage,I see the Paris link is Contel/American Sat, but it's not the Paris tower in the village of Paris at US 50 & 17, which was a C&P  TL/TM repeater between Leesburg and Front Royal, and no sideleg to Mt Wx on C&P's map.
                          Apparently the Paris on your map is on or near Mt Wx itself; I see a thread discussing Paris East & West there; quite confusing

                        • Albert LaFrance
                          Yes, that’s right - the PARIS I was referring to was the stand-alone microwave station (now de-horned, I believe) south of the High Point compound, just off
                          Message 12 of 17 , Mar 11, 2014
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                            Yes, that’s right - the PARIS I was referring to was the stand-alone microwave station (now de-horned, I believe) south of the High Point compound, just off the public road (Blue Ridge Mountain Rd./VA-601).  PARIS EAST and PARIS WEST were Contel/AmSat stations on the FEMA site.

                             

                            There was also a WU tower on 601 north of High Point; I assume it had a government (non-licensed) shot to the facility.

                             

                            Albert

                             

                            From: coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com [mailto:coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ozob99@...
                            Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 9:43 PM
                            To: coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [coldwarcomms] RE: Branch 1 VA

                             

                             

                            Looking at the map, which is on your webpage,I see the Paris link is Contel/American Sat, but it's not the Paris tower in the village of Paris at US 50 & 17, which was a C&P  TL/TM repeater between Leesburg and Front Royal, and no sideleg to Mt Wx on C&P's map.

                            Apparently the Paris on your map is on or near Mt Wx itself; I see a thread discussing Paris East & West there; quite confusing

                             

                          • ozob99
                            That WU route has been on my back burner a long time; has anyone discovered where that tower repeated to? the WU tower near Short Hill Mt the WU backbone
                            Message 13 of 17 , Mar 11, 2014
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                              That WU route has been on my back burner a long time; has anyone discovered where  that tower repeated to?

                              the WU tower near Short Hill Mt
                              the WU backbone Gambrills park station
                              the WAWB tower at Damascus
                              or?

                              and was it special construction using gov't frequencies; or common carrier bands,
                              the gear,photo's,etc;and the date established.



                              I know WU had a presence at High Point in the early days, mainly for their NUDETS
                              network, and I'd guess they wanted their own facilities for more control


                            • Albert LaFrance
                              Surprisingly, the WU tower was shown on route maps and listed in the FCC microwave license database under its real name. See the Tenley Area inset on this 1977
                              Message 14 of 17 , Mar 11, 2014
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                                Surprisingly, the WU tower was shown on route maps and listed in the FCC microwave license database under its real name.

                                 

                                See the Tenley Area inset on this 1977 map:

                                http://coldwar-c4i.net/WU/WU-CPI-77.jpg

                                 

                                The coordinates from the 1998 FCC database are 39-05-05N, 77-51-38W, which is about 3 mi. NE of the FEMA site.  The tower is still there (on Google Earth, at least).

                                 

                                Albert

                                 

                                From: coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com [mailto:coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ozob99@...
                                Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2014 3:43 PM
                                To: coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: RE: [coldwarcomms] RE: Branch 1 VA

                                 

                                 

                                That WU route has been on my back burner a long time; has anyone discovered where  that tower repeated to?

                                 

                                the WU tower near Short Hill Mt

                                the WU backbone Gambrills park station

                                the WAWB tower at Damascus

                                or?

                                 

                                and was it special construction using gov't frequencies; or common carrier bands,

                                the gear,photo's,etc;and the date established.

                                 

                                 

                                 

                                I know WU had a presence at High Point in the early days, mainly for their NUDETS

                                network, and I'd guess they wanted their own facilities for more control

                                 

                                 

                              • ozob99
                                I missed that when I looked at the map sometime ago,should have turned my head sideways; seems like a serious security breach in 1977, although it was after
                                Message 15 of 17 , Mar 12, 2014
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                                  I missed that when I looked at the map sometime ago,should have turned my head sideways; seems like a serious security breach in 1977, although it was after the
                                  1974 plane crash publicity.

                                  Maybe a WU document or employee recollection will surface someday with more info.
                                • Albert LaFrance
                                  Yes, and I’ll bet there are some interesting documents/stories related to the Tenley tower, too. I’ve heard, second-hand, that a carrier once sent a tech
                                  Message 16 of 17 , Mar 12, 2014
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                                    Yes, and I’ll bet there are some interesting documents/stories related to the Tenley tower, too.  I’ve heard, second-hand, that a carrier once sent a tech to disconnect service on a government line originating at Tenley, but was told by the on-site WU manager something to the effect that “there’s an important government facility nearby connected to that circuit, and if you turn it off, someone will be here *very* quickly – and he won’t be happy”.  The assumption was that he was referring to the “Cartwheel” White House comms center, about 1/4 mi to the NE.

                                     

                                    Albert

                                     

                                    From: coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com [mailto:coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ozob99@...
                                    Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 8:19 AM
                                    To: coldwarcomms@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: RE: [coldwarcomms] RE: Branch 1 VA

                                     

                                     

                                    I missed that when I looked at the map sometime ago,should have turned my head sideways; seems like a serious security breach in 1977, although it was after the

                                    1974 plane crash publicity.

                                     

                                    Maybe a WU document or employee recollection will surface someday with more info.

                                  • ozob99
                                    Maybe a WU Tenley tech will join the group someday. Looking further into Short Hill Mt I found this account of another 1974 plane crash, clipping a guy wire on
                                    Message 17 of 17 , Mar 12, 2014
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                                      Maybe a WU Tenley tech will join the group someday.

                                      Looking further into Short Hill Mt I found this account of another 1974 plane crash, clipping a guy wire on the WU tower:

                                      "State Police said James Wright, 46, of Verone. and Vernon Bostic, 23. of Turtle Creek, died when their single engine piper plane crashed atop Short Hill Mountain about 10:30 p.m. , Officers said the plane, piloted by Wright, apparently clipped a guidewire attached to a Western Union tower on the mountain."




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